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  • posted a message on [M20] Kethis, the Hidden Hand - One Hand in the Grave

    I just wished you'd titled your thread "Legends of the Grave"
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Unreleased and New Card Discussion
    Quote from DirkGently »
    to name some of my favorites:



    I feel like those ones are open-ended in a good way. Not that flexibility is always good, but it does give commanders more durability in these days of edhrec.
    6 out of 7 are non-commander set generals! MUCH respect for that.

    It's been a long time since I have played a game where commanders from normal sets out-numbered commanders from Commander sets and/or supplemental (i.e. Battlebond/Conspiracy) sets.

    That new Golos guy will probably get more people playing Maze's End. I've won a lot of games with Maze's End in the last 5 years. Smile I'm glad to see more Lands.dec support and I hope that Golos at least replaces Windgrace. I hate PWs too much.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on [[Primer]] Child of Alara -- Lands.dec

    So this guy got spoiled. From now on, Golos will probably be the go-to-guy for new Lands.dec players. But those in the know, understand how gamebreaking a Planar Cleansing is in the command zone.

    You'll will probably get laughed at for sticking with Child of Alara instead. Heck, when I tell people I'm running a Lands.dec, they always ask how come I'm not using Windgrace or Omnath.

    Golos does seem like a great add for the 99. I might even build an entirely separate 99 with Golos at the helm. It would be a completely different build and I would get to actually get to play Sol Ring and Mana Crypt.


    This is also another interesting card. It's kinda like a Valakut that you wouldn't need Prismatic Omen. And if you have Prismatic Omen, you could even Scapeshift for this and Valakut. It's always nice to have a back-up plan for when a gate gets exiled. I know people suggest Riftsweeper, but that has always been a non-starter for me.


    About back-up plans, Avenger of Zendikar has been a monster for me lately.
    On turn 7, I played an Avenger for 8 plants. Opponent on my immediate left senses trouble and steals Avenger with a Dragonlord Silumgar.
    On turn 8, I played Jace, the Mind Sculptor and bounced Silumgar. Then resolve a Splendid Reclamation for 3 fetchlands and a cycle land. My plants had 8x +1/+1 counters and it was game.
    Jace TMS + Avenger = Best buddies from Worldwake.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on [[Primer]] Child of Alara -- Lands.dec
    If you get the opportunity to be around Modern Horizons cards. Please let me know about the cardstock quality (especially foils)?
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on London Mulligan in Commander
    I'm in favor of the EDH mulligan rule mirror-ing whatever it is in the 60 card formats.

    It's less to remember and learn and to keep track off.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on [[Primer]] Child of Alara -- Lands.dec
    Quote from FTWRabbit »
    LIke I said, we must play at a different power level, because whenever I play, there will 100% be creatures on the board within the firt 3 turns.
    I do agree that it is miles better then Bringer of the Black Down.

    I would define a pet card as a card that you know isn't good enough to be in that specific deck, has little synergy with the rest of the deck, but you play annyway. I think most people would agree with me when saying Jace isn't good enough to be played in MOST commander decks, and certainly not in this one.

    Actually Jace is not played in Cedh, non of the top-decks are running him.

    Ofcourse he's better when you have creatures laying around to block, but we're arguing over playing him in Lands.dec, in which he doesn't belong, because we're not a typical control deck that runs 6-10 Creature-wrath's, or a Stax deck that locks everything down, or an extra turns deck, or a superfriends deck,... For sure he will be better in any of those decks, can we at least agree on that?

    To me it seems to boil down to our differences in playgroups. Jace would'nt make it around 1 Cycle where I play, except for after a COA wrath. Can we agree that 2UU for 1 Brainstorm (sometimes 2) is just bad? Because if so, Jace would be bad in my meta.


    I don't think we play at different power-levels, just different metas. I also said that Jace TMS is bad in cEDH, kinda like how Jace TMS is hard to tap-out for in Modern.

    Jace is never just 2UU for only one Brainstorm when I play. Yes, I agree with you that 2UU for Brainstorm is poor. But since I always get more than that, I will continue to play Jace. Brainstorm synergizes extremely well in my shuffle and tutor heavy deck. It's better than getting a land back each turn.

    However, if you can't ever get more value than one Brainstorm, I can see why you wouldn't play it. If Jace TMS can't make one round in your group, why bother with Wrenn other than just to try new cards?
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on [[Primer]] Child of Alara -- Lands.dec
    You can play Wrenn and Six without putting down Jace TMS.

    In a lot of EDH games, there just aren't any creatures in play turns 1-3. So if I play Jace TMS on curve, I'll get two uses. If I can get a Maze of Ith, it goes even further. Most of the time, Jace TMS isn't played on curve. If I play it after a Child of Alara trigger, it will also get two uses. So while Jace TMS is a card that I personally aim to play as much as possible, it's definitely not just a "pet" card. I know you called it that, but it's leagues above something like Bringer of the Black Dawn.

    Jace TMS is only underwhelming in EDH compared to his reputation in constructed, his price-tag, and cEDH. Many players also build their decks wrong with him. Jace's vulnerabilities are well over-stated in EDH. He's not going to win the game on his own like he would in 1v1. But he's solid and I reliably activate him over and over in my Momir Vig and Brago decks (decks prepared with creatures to block).

    If you don't think Jace is good, that's fine. But it's still better than Wrenn. Wrenn has a lower cmc and a better ultimate. Play new cards if you prefer to.
    a.) 2UU for 2 Brainstorms and life > RG for 2 Raise Deads and life.
    b.) In fact, any combination of activations of any of Jace's abilities > the same number of activations of Wrenn's abilities.
    c.) Wrenn only has an advantage over Jace TMS early, but if you play him early you might get 0 value (especially in low-fetch builds).
    d.) When you play against exile effects (one of Lands.dec vulnerabilities), Wrenn might get 0 value.

    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on [[Primer]] Child of Alara -- Lands.dec
    Yes, you should try Wrenn and Six if you want to. But it's not Regrowth since it only gets lands. The card that I most want to ever return with Eternal Witness/Sun Titan is usually Exploration or Azusa, Lost but Seeking.

    Opponents will attack Wrenn even if it's not good though. So you shouldn't use that as a measure of its worth. You'll likely have no blockers, and attacking without scaling is poor in a 40 life format. So why attack for chip damage, when you can attack and remove a card? Either way, if you push people to commit to the board, it's more devastating when you trigger Child of Alara. It's one reason why Jace, TMS has been so good for me.

    For those of you considering Wrenn? I just want to know what your take is on Jace, TMS? It seems like I'm the only one playing it.

    Just to clarify, I like Wrenn's ultimate but not the +1 enough, even though it only costs RG to play. I'll stand on my assertion of planeswalkers though. For their mana costs, most of them are not impactful enough (without enablers) to play without their ability to threaten an ultimate. That is, if you're not scared of the ultimate or building around the static ability, the PW is not worth including most of the time. I just don't think grinding is where it's at anymore.

    If I take nine from Bringer, so what? That's just the cost of doing business (running a pet card). Now if I take 9 + 8 from Bringer and Borborygmos Enraged...then I lose. Got to admit, that's why I took Bobo out. But EDH is about having fun.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on [[Primer]] Child of Alara -- Lands.dec
    A raise dead each turn for a land in your graveyard is not good enough to play on its own. Without the incredible ultimate, would you consider Wrenn and Six? If you were going to, would you consider playing Nissa, Vital Force? Her return ability is leagues stronger than Wrenn's and her ultimate is even more incredible.

    I think it's definitely time to consider ultimates when grading walkers for EDH. Commander is very different now. Grinding value to win games is pretty tough when any given opponent can just win in one turn. Might as well have an insane pay-off for that grind. Ultimates are also way more achievable than people seem to think (proliferate, extra turns, etc.). A planeswalker threatens to ultimate in about a third of the games I play. The only walker whose ultimate I don't consider is Jace, TMS because he's really that good.

    I have revealed Bringer off of Ad Naus so many times. But I still haven't cut him because he's cool and it's a 40 life format. It makes me feel good when people have to read the card.

    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Unreleased and New Card Discussion
    Quote from Taleran »
    The specific difference signet to talisman is if you need that mana right away or not most times.
    Being able to make colorless has applications now also.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Random Card of the Day: Slaughter
    There was a thread only a while back that said manaburn being gone had no practically no effect on EDH games. Cards like this say otherwise.

    That being said, I don't know why Urza would spike this card. Urza is strong, but it doesn't mean that you need to run Thran Turbine.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on [[Primer]] Child of Alara -- Lands.dec
    Quote from user-11183753 »
    I completely agree.

    What do you think about Wrenn and Six Umtiger? I play Restore in my ist, which seems very similar. Is it worth it? It's probably going to get killed after one round, but you do get the upside of gaining some life, or a chance of it surviving.

    Also do you think Hall of Heliod is good enough? I run 6 enchantments, all very essential pieces to the game-plan. I'd like to compare it to Academy Ruins, the difference being that Ruins gets back artifacts that sacrifice themselves (in my list I run both Expedition Map and Oblivion Stone). I just feel like I'm already running to many non-colored-producing lands as it is, don't know if I can or should make room for this one.
    Wrenn and Six has an incredible ultimate! Retrace is easy for us and the sorceries/instants that we're retracing are almost all tutors! Getting a land back in hand is nice with several cards (Tolaria West, Cycling lands, Trade Routes, Wasteland/Strip Mine. I even have Bazaar of Baghdad + Wrenn is like a Faithless Looting each turn.

    So, I think Wrenn and Six is a good card to run, can produce fun interactions, and give decent value (especially for costing only RG. However, my concern with it would be how it's not an "explosive" card. One of the trends in EDH produced by WOTC printed commander decks annually and releasing a Commander Masters/Horizons set annually is the horrible power-creep in the format. Many incremental advantage engines that would have been great 4-5 years ago are merely "good" nowadays.

    At the end of the day, I just run whatever I feel like running regardless because you only get so much time to play. Just play what you want. At the moment, I don't have the space to run an engine like Wrenn and Six. But I wouldn't mind cutting something like Trinket Mage or Bringer of the Black Dawn for it. I feel like those two cards have been underperforming for me lately.

    Restore is a great card that I'm not currently running. But I have in the past. Man, getting a land from someone else's graveyard has produced some nice interactions for me.

    My current decklist only has six enchantments: Sylvan Library, Exploration, Burgeoning, Manabond, Prismatic Omen, and Trade Routes. Exploration is the best card in the deck. It's the card that I never want to dredge into my graveyard and get exiled (well that and an incidental guild gate). Even with only 6 enchantments, I'd still say that Hall of Heliod's Generosity is a slam dunk include. It could've had a better name but I feel the same about Ramnunap Excavator (aka Magus of the Crucible).

    With it in your 99, you just get Life from the Loam and go to town until you dredge Volrath's Stronghold and/or Hall of Heliod. Then you recur what you need, be it a Sun Titan/Eternal Witness or Exploration.

    What would be your cuts for Wrenn and Hall of Heliod?

    I cut Boseiju awhile ago since I don't play against blue counters in my meta. I cut it for Horizon Canopy. Now I will cut Canopy for the Hall.

    Here is my current decklist on tapped out: https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/17-02-19-landsdec/?cb=1559407434
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on [[Primer]] Child of Alara -- Lands.dec
    Quote from shermanido37 »
    I thought you guys would love Tectonic Reformation. Giving half your deck cycling seems like a great way to draw a bunch of cards every single turn, not to mention set up critical lands in the yard.
    The cost to cycle using Tectonic Reformation is too high. R is a serious cost for a 5-color manabase.

    But there's always Trade Routes!
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Unreleased and New Card Discussion
    Honestly i'm not too excited about this set. Looks like it give some new toys to already established decks without creating something new.


    I don't agree. There's lots of exciting cards and interesting enablers. Giving an Astral Slide deck another Astral Slide is something new because it's hardly established and needing a redundant copy of an important effect is essential for even considering building a deck in the first place.

    Quote from FearDReaper »
    Quote from DirkGently »
    Quote from Hermes_ »
    how will command tax work with Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis?
    Pretty sure it's how you'd expect. Gotta delve 2 deeper or tap 2 more creatures (or 1 and 1).

    Of course it won't matter much since he'll usually be cast from the grave unless he gets exiled somehow.
    Do you think he's a good commander, or better off in 99 of something like Sidisi, Brood Tyrant?


    He's a very weak commander since he's just a beater and not even faster than Ghalta.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Urza, Lord High Artificer
    Quote from MRHblue »
    Quote from umtiger »
    This card is obviously strong, but Urza isn't locking anyone out or being annoying (i.e. Erayo, Leovold). Urza just means your artifact deck is strong, kinda like how Rofellos means your forest deck is strong.
    You are aware Rofellos is banned? I don't think they really do the same thing, but thats a bad analogy if you mean Urza should not be banned.


    Yes, I am aware of Rofellos. I just want to say that unless it locks players out, no commander should be banned. Rofellos still being banned is kinda weird.

    Urza is just strong. But any stronger than Thrasios? Thrasios does the same thing but is 4 colors and 2cmc.

    Quote from Forgotten One »
    The issue then becomes what does a "fair" Urza deck look like. It's obviously an artifact-centric deck, probably with cards that produce artifact tokens like Sai, Master Thopterist, Efficient Construction, Thopter Spy Network, Tezzeret, Artifice Master, Genesis Chamber (extra saucy because you can tap it for mana to turn it off on other player's turns), Thopter Assembly), etc. I think that even this kind of deck has the potential for some really strong shenanigans without being annoying.
    I don't know what "fair" means, but you can definitely play without being able to make infinite mana or do infinite loops.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
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