You guys are making me sad that Nocturnus hasnt been included in any one of these lists yet.
Does anyone run vial? Its go good.
Four mana to maybe pump your team doesn't sound so appealing, wouldn't it be better to play a Sorin that guarantees an anthem effect? However, I do agree vial is one of the best cards for tribal decks like this.
Technically speaking if our opponent is crippled to the point they can't play from us using ghost quartering, raven's crime, and returning whatever answer we need having a dedicated win-con is frivolous. It very well could be the case that the slots I have for knight of the reliquary could be better spent elsewhere. Sure with the commonplace of surgical extraction, it can be problematic.
Just as you advocate to not play Ayulu's influence as it dilutes the focus of the deck away from astral drift, the same argument can be made for both approach of the second sun and eldritch evolution. The former being useless in almost every phase of the game and even when we have someone locked out it will still take a while to get the same copy back. The latter especially troubles me because it adds another three-drop that doesn't do anything on its own. We don't gain anything from sacrificing a creature, also, I wouldn't we rather have them in play to be flickered by astral drift, correct? I think eladamri's call or finale of devastation makes more sense.
For eladamri's call the pros: it's cheap so we can play it early, and it works independently of board state; the cons: it doesn't put the creature into play. I don't think that is so problematic as by nature of this deck, especially if you're on the loam plan, you'll have a land to play every turn and can most likely cast your tutor target. As for finale of devastation the pros: we can also tutor from our graveyard; the cons: mana intensive. Again I don't think mana will be much of an issue when tutoring smaller creatures.
Also has anyone considered commune with the gods or sun titan? Commune adds consistency and allows us to dig for either of our best targets astral drift, eternal witness, or any silver bullet creature you might be playing. sun titan seems strong as it brings back either of the aforementioned cards so we can either get more flickers to control the board or recure more cards.
Below is where I'm currently at in theory. I wanted to gather my thoughts on the deck's history from Extended compared to what we have in Modern and lay them out here. I'll be presuming a metagame based off of mtggoldfish's data.
I'm not sold on the idea of being a predominantly creature deck trying to gain value from flickering different creatures. As such a strategy seems similar to collected company, which hasn't performed well in recent memory. Instead, I'm trying to keep with the spirit of Astral Slide decks from the old extended format, whereby we primarily abuse eternal witness. Notably, Extended-then and Modern-now are entirely different, with the latter being much more hostile and linear. Moreover, the card pool is vastly different where Extended had a better selection of cards with cycling than we do currently.
Arboreal Grazer looks to be perfect for this deck it provides an early blocker, ramps, and late-game helps us play several utility lands in a turn. Since my land count is spread out I figured knight of the reliquary can help us find a silver bullet while also being a huge treat that can end a game quickly. Admittedly, some of the spells seem odd but they add a means of locking the game up; angelsong while we have the loop stops combat and gilded light provides a lock vs storm, ad nauseam, and burn. However, it could be the case that since we already have wraths that only gilded light matters since it's more unique. unearth I think is another linchpin; late in the game allowing us to start chaining together e-wits. Oddly I don't have path to exile and instead opted to use assassin's trophy because of Tron just being nothing but problematic permanents, it's still cheap enough to be meaningful against humans, can kill the new planeswalkers that UW is maining, and still provides the land lock with ghost quarter. Also I am not playing edge of autumn as chaining grazers together turns the card into just sac a land cycle, but having more ways to ramp might be correct with an adjusted land base. The lands are rather greedy what with 8 tap lands and 4 colorless utility lands. I split the ghost quarter triplet to add a blast zone as another wrath and since I have loam and knight I tried to squeeze in some more utility lands.
Originally I was playing traverse but I decided to go with knights and an extra raven's crime. I think if anyone is going to play a creature toolbox they should consider some kind of tutor else they just have a clunky stack of creatures.
I feel focusing too far into forcing the combo will just make the deck clunky dirty kitty has the plan B of being the beat down. Just by having empty the warrens and Fecundity we can oops into a combo without putting too much filler into the deck since most pieces just natural work with deck since they're goblins themselves.
If we use card frames to arbitrarily show set legality I would like to discuss the the scope and purpose of the format. Scope as in do we expand to all newest framed prints of any card. For purpose to discuss just that; that is, what do we attempt to gain from this format? Are we simply following the idea of every new frame onward spawns a format or are we trying to increase the longevity of our standard investments. I admit I have the bias for a high ceiling format allowing for commander product and the alike to influence the format. I know many will not share this view. Even wotc time and time again uses those products to address older formats. However wotc even stated when they aim to impact a older format they do so with great force that leads to problematic cards now and again, but I believe for every single card that can be equated to a mistake there is an entire set that doesn't get utilized.
Sadly though most cards that get a new frame have no home even in their respected formats and I see fellow mages who buy product but really have no need for the bulk of their purchase and end up throwing away entire packs if the don't strike it big. With that said this is why I want to push for the entirety of new frame cards as a whole to allow exclusive deck development and interactions that wouldn't arise anywhere else. Essentially the specialty products would be equivalent to this formats core set as they would surely introduce new backbones for deck to flourish.
To address the elephant in the wake of allowing specialty product - obviously some sort of ban-list would need to emerge immediately as eternal master has force of will which is only beneficial if combo is rampant or is otherwise a hindrance. Furthermore with master pieces being a thing this puts even more absurd cards into the mix and thus an updated list would have to follow-suit there after but there is some cross over with specialty produce and master pieces such as sol ring which is highly dangerous. Lastly this another way to approach this would be for a slower rotation that was present in either interpretation of extended.
Not sure if it's Modern bashing or not but this thread is about the only thing exciting about the format.
Anyone feel Frontier ( aka, Post-Modern ) will affect Modern in the long run if Wizards actually gives it attention? I feel Origins to Kaladesh is what they are trying to achieve for game balance; slower, midrange creature bash.
Is "frontier" a thing announce by wotc, or are you speculating on the proposition that wotc will eventually make another new constructed format?
Not sure if it's Modern bashing or not but this thread is about the only thing exciting about the format.
Anyone feel Frontier ( aka, Post-Modern ) will affect Modern in the long run if Wizards actually gives it attention? I feel Origins to Kaladesh is what they are trying to achieve for game balance; slower, midrange creature bash.
Is "frontier" a thing announce by wotc, or are you speculating on the proposition that wotc will eventually make another new constructed format?
Intervention Pact + Madcap Experiment into aetherflux reservoir can kill them in one hit. It doesn't need a creature so path isn't a problem. As listed in another post there are quite a few cards that are maindeck playable and gain a bunch of life. Plus if we draw all three cards we can play the aetherflux before playing madcap+pact to gain life equal to the number of cards in our deck.
Wouldn't that only work if the Resevoir was more than 30 cards into your deck even if you had taken no damage during the game?
The concept is the same as one land belcher. However just playing a game of magic which usually causes you to cast spells will gain you life too.
Yes, but 1-land belcher only works because of how fast it is and because it only needs to go 10 cards down into the deck and even then it is terribly inconsistent. This deck would be as inconsistent as Charbelcher AND would involve going 30 cards into the deck AND would likely require surviving 3 turns while taking no damage. I just can't see how that would work.
You are correct due to belcher being linear it has no interaction. However with what I've proposed above you don't need to go all in like a combo deck which is where the problem arises. You are arguing mechanics while I'm talking about it's win condition conceptually, that is, play card A --> Reveal X cards in such a quantity that kills them. Belcher's entire deck is focused on executing its combo as soon as possible, where I am not. What I'm advocating for is a deck with card manipulation that features a kill condition similar to that of a belcher.
Intervention Pact + Madcap Experiment into aetherflux reservoir can kill them in one hit. It doesn't need a creature so path isn't a problem. As listed in another post there are quite a few cards that are maindeck playable and gain a bunch of life. Plus if we draw all three cards we can play the aetherflux before playing madcap+pact to gain life equal to the number of cards in our deck.
Wouldn't that only work if the Resevoir was more than 30 cards into your deck even if you had taken no damage during the game?
The concept is the same as one land belcher. However just playing a game of magic which usually causes you to cast spells will gain you life too.
That is due able too. However I'm not the biggest fan of playing the flux and hoping for x many consecutive turns that it isn't killed. I would rather my cards that interact with my opponent do so while gaining life as well. Such as lightning helix and timely reinforcements. Which would allow me to naturally play it and kill them or playing it and allowing one turn to pass to get 4 mana again to play the pact and madcap. More over reaching just 8 lands you can play all three pieces and kill them.
Intervention Pact + Madcap Experiment into aetherflux reservoir can kill them in one hit. It doesn't need a creature so path isn't a problem. As listed in another post there are quite a few cards that are maindeck playable and gain a bunch of life. Plus if we draw all three cards we can play the aetherflux before playing madcap+pact to gain life equal to the number of cards in our deck.
Four mana to maybe pump your team doesn't sound so appealing, wouldn't it be better to play a Sorin that guarantees an anthem effect? However, I do agree vial is one of the best cards for tribal decks like this.
Just as you advocate to not play Ayulu's influence as it dilutes the focus of the deck away from astral drift, the same argument can be made for both approach of the second sun and eldritch evolution. The former being useless in almost every phase of the game and even when we have someone locked out it will still take a while to get the same copy back. The latter especially troubles me because it adds another three-drop that doesn't do anything on its own. We don't gain anything from sacrificing a creature, also, I wouldn't we rather have them in play to be flickered by astral drift, correct? I think eladamri's call or finale of devastation makes more sense.
For eladamri's call the pros: it's cheap so we can play it early, and it works independently of board state; the cons: it doesn't put the creature into play. I don't think that is so problematic as by nature of this deck, especially if you're on the loam plan, you'll have a land to play every turn and can most likely cast your tutor target. As for finale of devastation the pros: we can also tutor from our graveyard; the cons: mana intensive. Again I don't think mana will be much of an issue when tutoring smaller creatures.
Also has anyone considered commune with the gods or sun titan? Commune adds consistency and allows us to dig for either of our best targets astral drift, eternal witness, or any silver bullet creature you might be playing. sun titan seems strong as it brings back either of the aforementioned cards so we can either get more flickers to control the board or recure more cards.
I'm not sold on the idea of being a predominantly creature deck trying to gain value from flickering different creatures. As such a strategy seems similar to collected company, which hasn't performed well in recent memory. Instead, I'm trying to keep with the spirit of Astral Slide decks from the old extended format, whereby we primarily abuse eternal witness. Notably, Extended-then and Modern-now are entirely different, with the latter being much more hostile and linear. Moreover, the card pool is vastly different where Extended had a better selection of cards with cycling than we do currently.
4 Arboreal Grazer
4 eternal witness
2 knight of the reliquary
SPELLS: 26
4 astral drift
4 renewed faith
4 life from the loam
3 assassin's trophy
2 cast out
2 unearth
2 gilded light
2 angelsong
2 raven's crime
1 wrath of god
1 day of judgment
3 tranquil thicket
2 secluded steppe
1 barren moor
1 scattered groves
1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
1 bojuka bog
1 hall of heliod's generosity
2 ghost quarter
1 blast zone
3 windswept heath
1 verdant catacombs
1 overgrown tomb
1 temple garden
3 forest
1 plains
1 swamp
Arboreal Grazer looks to be perfect for this deck it provides an early blocker, ramps, and late-game helps us play several utility lands in a turn. Since my land count is spread out I figured knight of the reliquary can help us find a silver bullet while also being a huge treat that can end a game quickly. Admittedly, some of the spells seem odd but they add a means of locking the game up; angelsong while we have the loop stops combat and gilded light provides a lock vs storm, ad nauseam, and burn. However, it could be the case that since we already have wraths that only gilded light matters since it's more unique. unearth I think is another linchpin; late in the game allowing us to start chaining together e-wits. Oddly I don't have path to exile and instead opted to use assassin's trophy because of Tron just being nothing but problematic permanents, it's still cheap enough to be meaningful against humans, can kill the new planeswalkers that UW is maining, and still provides the land lock with ghost quarter. Also I am not playing edge of autumn as chaining grazers together turns the card into just sac a land cycle, but having more ways to ramp might be correct with an adjusted land base. The lands are rather greedy what with 8 tap lands and 4 colorless utility lands. I split the ghost quarter triplet to add a blast zone as another wrath and since I have loam and knight I tried to squeeze in some more utility lands.
Originally I was playing traverse but I decided to go with knights and an extra raven's crime. I think if anyone is going to play a creature toolbox they should consider some kind of tutor else they just have a clunky stack of creatures.
Edit: Also I would suggest not to play at the stake; just play grapeshot or alpha strike with your final empty the warrens like the older variant.
Sadly though most cards that get a new frame have no home even in their respected formats and I see fellow mages who buy product but really have no need for the bulk of their purchase and end up throwing away entire packs if the don't strike it big. With that said this is why I want to push for the entirety of new frame cards as a whole to allow exclusive deck development and interactions that wouldn't arise anywhere else. Essentially the specialty products would be equivalent to this formats core set as they would surely introduce new backbones for deck to flourish.
To address the elephant in the wake of allowing specialty product - obviously some sort of ban-list would need to emerge immediately as eternal master has force of will which is only beneficial if combo is rampant or is otherwise a hindrance. Furthermore with master pieces being a thing this puts even more absurd cards into the mix and thus an updated list would have to follow-suit there after but there is some cross over with specialty produce and master pieces such as sol ring which is highly dangerous. Lastly this another way to approach this would be for a slower rotation that was present in either interpretation of extended.
pseudo formats, my weakness
Is "frontier" a thing announce by wotc, or are you speculating on the proposition that wotc will eventually make another new constructed format?
You are correct due to belcher being linear it has no interaction. However with what I've proposed above you don't need to go all in like a combo deck which is where the problem arises. You are arguing mechanics while I'm talking about it's win condition conceptually, that is, play card A --> Reveal X cards in such a quantity that kills them. Belcher's entire deck is focused on executing its combo as soon as possible, where I am not. What I'm advocating for is a deck with card manipulation that features a kill condition similar to that of a belcher.
The concept is the same as one land belcher. However just playing a game of magic which usually causes you to cast spells will gain you life too.