MTG Salvation

Quote from illakunsaa »

I think wizards should hire some heartstone players to play in a tournament where they all use planeswalker decks vs mtg pros who use their normal decks.

That would be a glorious train wreck to witness.

Wouldn't it be more interesting the other way around?

Design-wise I would argue against rile at instant-speed in most cases anyway. The timing is a real concern and if you avoid instant speed altogether you make it much cleaner because suddenly what the action does becomes a much more focussed. There is something like making a keyword too open and rile really seems like it would benefit from being straightforward.

I'm just generally dubious about the actual value in using the action to rile an opponent while pumping them. It's certainly not useless, but in general I assume that designing your cards to just not do that allows players to spend mental power processing that option.

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Counterproposal: Rouse target creature. (Put a +1/+1 counter on it. Untap it. It gains haste.)

Red doesn't usually untap except to attack (but white usually doesn't cause life loss until extort says so...). The most clunky decision here is to use it before or after combat. Preferably vigilance was in there, to.

The idea is to make a variant of rile that's all upside and removes any question of using it on an opponent.

Question to me is: Which plays better?

Invalidating removal is a really harsh effect to put on every land. That's not niche. That's considerable. Not implasibly so, but I'd put this closer to the Oona's Grace end of the spectrum than the Raven's Crime end when it comes to costs - the effect to save your stuff and reuse an ETB effect really becomes that much more useful as it becomes itself reusable.

Quote from genini2 »

If you want to avoid the issues that come with tapping (like for Gideon) and still limit walkers to once per turn cycle you can use counter.
"Whenever a player activates an ability of a planeswalker add a depletion counter to that permanent. Permanent's with depletion counters cannot activate their abilities. At the beginning of each players upkeep remove all depletion counters from each permanent they control."

How is putting depletion counters on permanents that already have loyalty counters a better idea than tapping them?

Don't use flash. Flash has not been used for ablities and this not the right place to start it because the restrictions that used to be sorcery speed apparently are not just that anymore - youll have to write entirely new rules and its a bad place to start.

Be precise. No one is going to read the above wording and is going to assume you get multiple activations in a single turn just because you don't need an empty stack - the rules around the abilities have changed around too much. You want no such ambiguity. And any abuse of untapping immediately gets solved.

If you miscommunicate what this ability is supposed to do because you use cute wording, that's your failure to explain, not anyone else's to understand. Look at the wording with those things in mind.

Quote from beren camlost »

Is there only one of each basic art?

Probably since all sets are big sets now - the overall number of basic land arts per year aren't changing too much compared to the olden days...

Quote from Metallix87 »

Here's the newest version of the ability, after converting it to the single-time check ala Ascend.

Nezumi Assassin 3B
Creature - Rat Assassin (C)

Storyteller (If you have the most cards in a graveyard, you gain the storyteller’s mark for the rest of the game.)
When Nezumi Assassin enters the battlefield, if you have the storyteller’s mark, target creature an opponent controls gets -3/-3 until end of turn.

3/3

I feel the fact that you can get the storyteller's mark permanently makes it even worse that you can sometimes get it for a single card (if your opponent just drops defensive creatures and/or has a slow start) while other times your opponent is also a playing a story teller deck (or one otherwise graveyard focussed etc.) and will always be ahead.

Quote from Manite »

Domri, Gruul Urchin RG
Legendary Creature - Human Shaman
Bloodrush - (R/G), Discard ~: Target attacking creature gets +2/+1 until end of turn.
1RG: Exile Domri from your graveyard, then return him to the battlefield transformed under his owner's control. Activate this ability only anytime you could cast a sorcery.
2/1

I like the idea of using a Gruul guild mechanic on Domri, the very mechanic Gruul had when Domri was first introduced in Gatecrash no less. Domri himself is a bit of a runt due to still being a teenager, so his Bloodrush ability doesn't provide much, but it doesn't cost much either. Originally his spark ability was an upkeep trigger that checked if he was in your graveyard, but that would effectively make him a 1-drop planeswalker, so I opted for the safer approach here.

Domri, Clan Beastcaller
(R/G) Legendary Planeswalker - Domri
+1: ~ deals 1 damage to each opponent. For each player dealt damage this way, add R or G.
-3: Create a 4/4 red and green Beast creature token with trample, then destroy up to one target artifact or enchantment.
-X: Search your library for a creature card with converted mana cost X or less and put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle your library. That creature gains haste until end of turn. Return it to its owner's hand at the beginning of the next end step.
4

I juat want to point out that you seem to entirely ignore that the recursion ability also applies when the planeswalker is put back into the graveyard. Have two of these in your graveyard and you get as many 4/4s for three... and you need only one of these in your graveyard to tutor any number of creatures out of your library as long as they cost 4 or less at a cost of three mana a card - not mentioning the dash attack.

Would you consider making the second ability of the planeswalker a Recoup/Snapcaster MAge variant? That way you avoid the harder to develop mass draw in that spot (and after all you have already pure card draw as the first ability). The ultimate then could be an upscaled version of the second ability of one of the GRN Rals: "~ deals X damage to each opponent and each creature and planeswalker controlled by an opponent, and you draw X cards, where X is the number of instants and/or sorcery cards in your graveyard and you own in exile." or however it is worded.

The ultimate is worded unfortunately; putting the emblem text as the second effect makes it ambiguous whether "then" is supposed to mean "after exiling the cards", "after casting a card from exile" or even "after the time the cards remain in exile has passed". My first step solution would be to move the emblem to the beginning of the ability, but I also think the emblem is by far the least concern of this ability and could be removed entirely.

I've noticed elsewhere that you tend to add just a little more to read to some abilities/cards that doesn't really make for a satisfying addition and actually detracts from the main effect by being a distraction despite being an upside. It's like adding "If you have exactly four cards in hand, you gain 4 life" to Day of Judgment - technically you made the card better, but the time spend parsing that extra line makes the card less effective - at conveying itself.

Quote from Havrekjex »

Source

Prerelease kits will contain:

• 5 regular Guilds of Ravnica booster packs
• One seeded booster pack: composed entirely of cards relevant to that player’s guild
• 1 randomized, date stamped foil promo card, drawn from any rare or mythic in the set

Quote from HugSeal »

Just watched the preprerelease and it seems the promo takes the rare slot in the seeded pack effecctively meaning one less rare in the pool. Thoughts?

If the promo is any rare or mythic and placed in the rare slot of the seeded pack, isn't that the exact same amount of rares in the pool?

Quote from Josephine_Ciendeilio »

Ugh, who designs and playtests these things? Seriously. How about instead:

-1 Sonic Assault
-1 Direct Current
-1 Maximize Altitude
+3 Gravitic Punch

-1 Leapfrog
-3 Fearless Halberdier
+4 Piston-Fist Cyclops

-1 Rubblebelt Boar
-1 Muse Drake
+2 Wee Dragonauts

-1 Passwall Adept
-1 Vedalken Mesmerist
+2 Goblin Electromancer

-2 Hellkite Whelp
+2 Fire Urchin

-1 Omnispell Adept
+1 Firemind's Research

Gravitic Punch: Why would you want double colored costs for Electromancer and Jumpstart synergy? Also better Dragonaut/Piston/Urchin synergy.
Piston-Fist Cyclops: Better body for basically the same cost and rarity also has synergy with the deck to remove "drawback".
Wee Dragonauts: Better than frog, has innate flying, synergy with Electromancer, capitalizes off multiple spells a turn, aerial finisher.
Goblin Electromancer: Arguably the best card of the deck.
Fire Urchin: Much cheaper cost, synergy with deck, has trample, can make excellent use of Gravitic Punch like Ral's Staticaster.
Firemind's Research: Isn't a useless winmore card in the deck, actually provides synergy and the ability to close a game.

Some of these are just putting in more copies of cards that are already in there. And I think as an end goal this is fine, but I think this is an example where they want to give the player the ability to improve the deck by going through these steps - adding redundant Wee Dragonauts is a good idea. I haven't had a manual for a preconstructed theme-deck/planeswalker-deck in my hands in a while, but back in... Nemesis -I think?- they had an insert that gave you just such a list of "suggested upgrades". Do they still have those inserts? I think, they really help to explain the idea behind the decks being less streamlined (2-ofs of cards that you would want to be 4-ofs in your FNM deck - encourage both the act of deckbuilding as well as just plain buying additional cards: whether as singles/boosters both WotC and the LGS don't want these decks to be complete, because the player who turns around and buys stuff to get the 3rd or 4th copy of obviously strong cards is a player that buys more merchandise).

I think, it is unrealistic to expect of Wizards to provide 4-ofs of cards that they actually want the players to spend their money on - this deck is supposed to be your entrance into becoming a repeat customer, so leaving you wanting those additional carsd for a playset is part of the strategy. Remember the business side involves selling product that wants the customer coming back for more.

Other suggestions like replacing Direct Current with Gravitic Punch hit closer to actually realistic suggestions to improve the deck without straight up hurting their business model.

I can only hope that people complaining about the quality of these decks aren't thinking along your lines of "turn all good 2-ofs into 4-ofs" and more along the lines of "make important 1-of commons 2-ofs or 3-ofs and switch around commons for more synergistic effects", because expecting the first is setting yourself up for disappointment and about as likely as having the put a transparent window on their booster packs and the rare in front, so you can make your buying decision more informed: It's straight going against the purpose of the product. It would be intersting to know what people think about that though. I'd really like to see some more people go through the effort you did here and actually suggest a straight solution.

I know a lot of suggestions sound reasonable, but I'd like to collect the community suggestions e. g. over the course of a block and then review the ideas so people can decide whether the community actually can make "better" Planeswalker decks/theme decks (to me there is no reason to not consider a Planeswalker deck a theme deck that just happens to contain a planeswalker and some cards that follow some mechanical guidelines while still being part of a theme deck). That could be a nice learning experience and put some perspective on the question whether WotC is actually bad at making these, or whether the structure of these decks inherently makes them undesirable even as an entry-level product.

I feel the front side would be much more straightforward cooler and Izzet/Stormy as a variant of Goblin Electromancer:

Ral, Spark Slinger
Legendary Creature - Human Wizard
Instant and sorcery spells you cast cost {1} less to cast.
When you cast an instant or sorcery spell for the third time this turn, exile ~, then return him to the battlefield transformed under his owner's control.
2/2

I think it also feels kinda neat that his spark goes of literally for you reaching a certain storm count, but why not make it literally a storm count rather than something similar? In the deck that wants to play him that's not that hard to achieve a reasonable amount of time - and conversely allows to plan around keeping him *not* transformed if you e. g. want to keep the creature and planeswalker side around at the same time.

As an added bonus not making Ral a looter means you aren't retreading Jace ground.

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I agree with the general tone of the voices regarding the planeswalker side. Ignoring my suggested change to the planeswlker front side, are you aware that this (your OP version) straight draws you three cards the turn you transform it while going up to the five loyalty needed for the ultimate? Is that part of your considerations?

I think you have unercost the front side by a straight {1} and the back side would still be a good deal just due to the raw card draw power.

I'm not too aware of the new Ral's floatng around right now, but I feel a mana generation ability (maybe "~ deals 4 damage to target creature. Add . Spend this mana only to cast instants and/or sorcery spells."?) could make for a better spell-slinging enabler than the current middle ability you have?

Anothr thought: Am I the only one who thinks a good ultimate would be to just ouright hand you the storm victory: "Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell this turn, draw a card and add some mana."? Seriously, copying spells is fine as well. It's an Izzet thing to do. I almost feel though it doesn't actually need to be an emblem if done right, which I'd consider fitting for Izzet's flair of big singular events.

Quote from Evilferret »

Righteous Guard 2W
Creature — Human Cleric{U}
When Righteous Guard enters the battlefield, choose another creature you control.
When a spell or ability would target the chosen creature, it targets Righteous Guard instead.
2/3

Our daily edition of "Triggered abilities and replacement effects are not the same" is here! Fortunately replacment effects don't work here. If you use a static ability you'd have to use a targeting restriction, so let's go with the wording for a triggered ability we can come up with... something like "When the chosen creature becomes the target of a spell or ability, change that target to ~ if able."? There certainly are going to be spells that simply cannot be changed around e. g. "Destroy target black creature" etc. And the triggered ability just fails to protect from them - which is probably fine. Just a neat interaction.

The concept of the design is nice - could work in a few colors, but white has quite some precedent of martyr/flagbearer stuff, and this hits the creative notes.

Quote from Manite »

Wishes Ungranted 2R
Instant
Search your library for up to three cards with different names and reveal them. An opponent chooses two of those cards. Put the card not chosen into your hand, then shuffle the chosen cards into your library.

I feel the effect is established in blue and there are just many different effects at the rarity level you are it with this; you can just go a slightly different route and put the variant effect into another color e. g. I just commented on a variant to the idea that might very well reclaim the effect (or better: a variant of it) for black.

What this is lacking is an air of lost control/recklessness that red favors. I'm not going to suggest the vriant I'm proposing next for the "Three Wishes" flavor necessarily, but just as examples how red could claim similar effects:

Palms Full of Ash
Instant
Discard your hand, then draw M cards. Reveal your hand. An opponent chooses N cards from your hand. Discard the chosen cards.
"'Power to set things on fire with a touch'? Wish granted. What will be your final wish, then? Did I hear 'No longer being on fire'?"

Amass Riches
Instant
Reveal the top M cards of your library. An opponent chooses N of those cards. Put the chosen cards on the bottom of your library and the remaining cards into your hand.
She wished for enviable riches, but not the means to defend them.

I suppose someone already suggested something along the typical red lines of:

Desires Manifest
Instant
Exile cards from the top of your library until you reveal M nonland cards. An opponent chooses N of those cards. Until the begining of your next end step may cast the chosen cards without paying their mana cost.
He wished for love, but not for requital.

One thing this thread gave me was an appreciation of how much fun it is to write flavor text for these.

I like these little mini game cards. They can be really grokkable, but the wording often ends up quite convoluted, but the concepts are good.

Quote from Evilferret »

Faulty Tutor 1B
Sorcery (R)
Search your library for a card and reveal it.
Target opponent may choose to have you put that card into your hand, or return it to your library.
If that opponent chooses for you to return that card to your library, search your library for a card with a different name, reveal it, and put it into your hand.
Shuffle your library.

I'm fairly certain this would be cost better at converted mana cost 3 - it seems fairly easy to have this effectively be a full tutor if you have any redundancy in the answers/combo pieces/whatever you might want to tutor up. I'd word it in a way where you don't target the opponent since the player will not intuitively comprehend this as a spell that targets an opponent, so:

• "Search your library for a card and reveal it. An opponent may choose to have you put that card into your hand. If they don't, return it to your library and search your library for a card with a different name, reveal it, then put it into your hand. Shuffle your library."

This is clearly reminiscent of something like Gifts Ungiven, but the fact that the opponent doesn't get to see the second option until it is too late is both the reason I'd not go all that far down in cost, but also really a thematic sell, that gives this a black-aligned twist. This is monkey-paw/evil genie cruelty right here: Your one wish is for your opponent not to have this card? Wish granted! Also they have this other card they actually wanted instead! Muhaha!

Possible flavor hint: The devil you know...?

Shocking Thoughts RU
Instant (U)
Target opponent chooses two creatures he or she controls.
Choose one of those creatures. Shocking Thoughts deals 2 damage to that creature.
Tap the other creature.

I'd go with "Shock and Awe" rather than mentioning "thoughts" in a cardname that does nothing related to card drawing, discarding or milling, nothing that has to do with hand or library. Unless you believe that Shock will at some point be considered usable as half of a split card. ^^ Maybe "Shell-Shock" or "Awestruck"?

Anyway, I think the wording is already going where it should go. Variant wordin: "Target opponent chooses two creatures they control. ~ deals 2 damage to one of those creatures of your choice. Tap the remaining creature."

I can see an opponent torturing themselves over whether they choose two high-toughness creatures with the risk of you having a follow-up burn spell, but that's only the best outcome. This is clearly worse than having the ability to just deal damag to a creature of your choice in many situations, so even at two mana the amount of damage probably should be higher.