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  • posted a message on Prison Block Mafia II Sign ups 8/15: Questioning Witnesses

    /in
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Ever Changing Seasons Mafia - Day Four Friendly Fall
    Quote from tomsloger »
    vezok/grape
    Last/Axel/Silver/asta
    kj/nacho/dkings
    vaimes/rhand
    fulcrum/kcc/keldeo
    proph


    Top shot choices:

    Tom: proph/kcc
    Vezok: nacho/axel
    Grape: dkings/proph/keldeo
    Last: fulcrum/kcc
    Axel: vaimes
    Silver: keldeo/rhand
    Asta: kcc/keldeo
    Kj: keldeo/silver/kcc
    Dkings: kcc/nacho
    Rhand: nacho/vaimes
    Vaimes: fulcrum/nacho
    Kcc: nacho/fulcrum
    Fulcrum: keldeo/rhand
    Proph: dkings/vaimes

    Still hasnt stated scumreads?:
    Keldeo
    Nacho


    @asta is that a correct interpretation of your #2884? I read it as narrowed two lists down and came to two top choices but you werent actually explicit

    @keldeo did i miss your answer? I remember you going through all your townreads and then just... letting the remainder float.

    @everyone does this list reflect your opinion?

    I think my final answer is "proph on scum equity alone, kcc/keldeo better info. Fonti somewhere in between" and dont really care THAT much between the 4
    people that wanted nacho dead: vezok/dkings/rhand/vaimes/kcc
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Ever Changing Seasons Mafia - Day Four Friendly Fall
    Quote from vezokpiraka »
    Ok. I will go with my choice.

    execute nacho

    The fact that the day kill came right after nacho switched to summer is just too much for me.
    well i guess we'll find out now but im really not sure how thats relevant unless the dayvig was up for d1 lynch. Since it would have just happened today instead
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Ever Changing Seasons Mafia - Day Four Friendly Fall
    I know i said i wasnt gonna defend nacho,
    and i might stick to that but
    Is this really why youre shooting him, vez?
    Quote from vezokpiraka »
    Quote from Nachomamma8 »
    Quote from Axelrod »
    Quote from Nachomamma8 »
    y'all rly elected vezok as king
    that seems silly
    Well, silly seems wrong. You can disagree, but really only if you're strongly scum-reading him. Otherwise Mason is kind of exactly what you would want in this spot.

    I want someone I trust as town + someone whose reads I trust. Do I trust vezok's process as town? No.


    I saw this again and had to comment. This is a pretty preposterous statement to make when half of the ***** that happened yesterday was because you counter claimed KCC for no reason.

    There's also the fact that you changed the season to summer without consulting with anyone and wouldn't you know it summer is exactly the season that unlocks the day kill for scum.
    Quote from vezokpiraka »
    I kinda want to shoot nacho. The way she fired her shot after CCing KCC seems decidedly un-town. The flip would be good for information.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Ever Changing Seasons Mafia - Day Four Friendly Fall
    I still think nacho is town but no one should be influenced by that appeal to emotion and nacho would likely tell you the same thing

    @Nacho thoughts on proph/post #2921
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Ever Changing Seasons Mafia - Day Four Friendly Fall
    Quote from Killjoy »
    tom's alignment will be directly proportional to other's alignments. After we have a few more flips, then go back and ISO him... who he pushes will show his true colors.

    also, proph could be scum.
    i think im probably town regardless of flips
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Ever Changing Seasons Mafia - Day Four Friendly Fall
    Quote from Rhand »
    I feel a lot worse about tom now for what Axel just pointed out. Tom loves open wolfing and that post about who his buddies would be is totally useless and fits perfectly in that meta.
    i dont think it was useless at all i got a towny reaction from axel and a scummy one from you
    (Though neither are likely to effect my reads much)

    @axel because i was thinking about it earlier (with just you and silver) and thought id add nacho since i was propping him up a little as his stock was at its lowest.
    Which leads to

    @keldeo for nacho im really looking back at early game. Think he loves being scum and when this game started he was having such a ***** time and being manic about stuff and it just struck as town nacho.
    But as i mentioned before i havent liked much since the CC and think he had a ***** eod and a ***** day 2.
    But im just sort of keeping him there and watching his catchup rn. But hey maybe he'll die and we'll see
    (Not a shot i like but this is about all the arguing against it im gonna do tbh)
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Ever Changing Seasons Mafia - Day Four Friendly Fall
    Quote from Vaimes »
    (This is me explicitly admitting that not lunching was awful and we should feel bad for doing it.)
    correct
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Ever Changing Seasons Mafia - Day Four Friendly Fall
    Quote from Rhand »
    tom are you actually reading my posts? I am not “completely unclaimed”.
    Not that I want to say more right now, but it bothers me that you missed that.
    ok yeah you softed i guess.
    Have you said anything other than implying overlap with vaimes?

    i think i would take an inventor/giftgiver, maybe an item stealer, as a CC but id still have to think about it in this game + learn more about prophs blue orbs because could be a trichotomy with the 3 of you with proph the wolf or something so honestly i doubt id want you to claim more theres already far too much info out there
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Ever Changing Seasons Mafia - Day Four Friendly Fall
    Time to get spicy with some setupgaming i dont really believe in and cant be held accountable for:
    if you define an info role as broadly as possible, we can group--
    Axel/fonti/silver: directly claimed info roles
    Vezok/grape: pregame info on eachother
    Vaimes: gives track/neighbor (unproven abilities, but vezok confirms options/general role). Also sort of a rolecop
    Proph: unknown role but target is informed

    Proph include is probably a stretch even for this exercise but that is technically an amount of info and we know nothing else

    And then we define manipulative as broadly as possible, aka "changes default game rules"--
    Tom: saying no more than putting myself in one of two categories
    Kcc: effects actions
    Nacho: effects seasons
    Dkings: effects kills
    Last: effects *stuff*
    Asta: effects lynch
    scum dayvig: effects life
    Vaimes: mostly in the other pile but does take abilities?


    Other groups--
    Day use/activation: tom/dkings/nacho/vaimes/dayvig + vez/grape, asta
    Best in summer: axel/dkings/kcc/dayvig (not doing the other seasons we dont have the info we just have a lot of summer claimed)
    Doesnt care about season?: grape/vez/last/nacho/vaimes/proph (i think all of these are actually guesses lol)
    Non-targetting: grape/vez/last/asta/nacho/fonti
    4 abilities: axel/kcc
    3 abilities: fonti/vaimes*
    (Last=6, dkings=1)

    Im not gonna say too much about these groupings other than each is likely to contain a =rand number of scum. Obviously some of that is gonna be unreliable, especially with #of abilities because lol scum can just lie.
    But these sorts of groupings are increasingly useful once we get more flips


    Id also like to commend the unclaimed regardless of alignment:
    gemma/keldeo/kj/rhand completely unclaimed
    Proph/silver/asta/(me) only softs/public info
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Ever Changing Seasons Mafia - Day Four Friendly Fall
    vezok/grape
    Last/Axel/Silver/asta
    kj/nacho/dkings
    vaimes/rhand
    fulcrum/kcc/keldeo
    proph


    Top shot choices:

    Tom: proph/kcc
    Vezok: nacho/axel
    Grape: dkings/proph/keldeo
    Last: fulcrum/kcc
    Axel: vaimes
    Silver: keldeo/rhand
    Asta: kcc/keldeo
    Kj: keldeo/silver/kcc
    Dkings: kcc/nacho
    Rhand: nacho/vaimes
    Vaimes: fulcrum/nacho
    Kcc: nacho/fulcrum
    Fulcrum: keldeo/rhand
    Proph: dkings/vaimes

    Still hasnt stated scumreads?:
    Keldeo
    Nacho


    @asta is that a correct interpretation of your #2884? I read it as narrowed two lists down and came to two top choices but you werent actually explicit

    @keldeo did i miss your answer? I remember you going through all your townreads and then just... letting the remainder float.

    @everyone does this list reflect your opinion?

    I think my final answer is "proph on scum equity alone, kcc/keldeo better info. Fonti somewhere in between" and dont really care THAT much between the 4
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Ever Changing Seasons Mafia - Day Four Friendly Fall
    Like, there's a weird sort of dissonance when I try to step into his shoes though, he has some fairly strong reads but then undercuts them by saying he doesn't think they're as good as anyone else's reads because he hasn't actually been playing the game.
    this is kinda the point
    Because he makes that undercut/statement and then... listens to no one and keeps saying what hes saying in every post since...

    Yes it is framed as "explaining his reads" which partially explains that but

    Yeah theres no sign hes listening to anyone that has been here the whole time. No doubt. No curiosity.

    Imo
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Ever Changing Seasons Mafia - Day Four Friendly Fall
    If dkings is town pushing him would very much be a short term move for a wolf. But that tracks with what i know of prophs scumgame- wouldnt really be planning to endgame this bitch.

    Think his dkings push is a bit throwaway looking in the wall, but he defends it multiple times (to dkings in a wall, and reaffirms his memory of dkings in modern to axel) in addition to that shady dismissal of the claim i posted.
    Like yes, proph is a "consider all angles" sort as both alignments. You could call that hedgey or something but i think its just prophy. And making him strongest scum in wall and reinforcing 3 times definitely makes that his intended push.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Ever Changing Seasons Mafia - Day Four Friendly Fall
    Unfortunately the "fail case" for that read is "villager thats real busy and cant think beyond the catchup he already did"

    Which is... possible. Obviously. But man there is no drive there.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Ever Changing Seasons Mafia - Day Four Friendly Fall
    Why i think proph should die:

    I think ill just start with "his catchup was ~fine"
    I argued against townreading it but im not actively scumreading it either
    But
    Quote from Prophylaxis »
    Don't think I have a very accurate view of the gamestate compared to people who have been playing this game since the beginning, but hopefully I gave some of you a perspective change since reading this thread is a S L O G.
    i think shows that prophs aware he needs to interact after catchup.

    But all of his posts after are backwards looking.
    He explains his reads more when asked, but has no real questions in return. Or even thoughtfulness.
    Think this post, in particular, doesnt match that mindset at all. Treating his reads as an entity separate from himself kinda:
    Quote from Prophylaxis »
    @Keldeo:

    Quote from Keldeo »
    Re: Killjoy, what do you mean he’s trying to apply lessons learned from previous games?


    Killjoy has been on record saying that has been wanting to improve his mafia game (I think it was around Modern Mafia that this happened, though it may have been a bit earlier). IIRC he said something like this in the Modern Mafia spec chat:

    Quote from Killjoy »
    So I'm curious: what actually makes me scummy? I feel like Axel is right and it's a style thing.


    Megiddo and KCC chimed in with some advice and that's the sense I'm getting from KJ this game. He's trying to apply lessons learned from his previous games in a way that I think doesn't manifest like the way it does in this game if he rolled a red alignment.

    Quote from Keldeo »
    Tell me more about Silver and Wisp, if you could? Your actual observations there seem kind of... tame compared to the magnitude of read you’re representing - “idk don’t really think he’d do this as mafia” and blue town. Is there something more to it that I’m missing?
    They're somewhat tame because Silver and Last I think are more town for body of work stuff rather than a few specific posts, and I've been using my own personal (maybe outdated in the case of Silver?) meta for them. Can go into it a little more when I'm done with finals hell if you wish.

    Quote from Keldeo »
    What do you think of fulcrum’s towncase on Vaimes wrt both their alignments?
    This is something I will get to after finals hell; will put it on the list.

    Quote from Keldeo »
    And overall, I’m just wondering - how much of these reads were things you had when you made that post about being caught up to the first 1000, and how much was developed/fully articulated or fleshed out between then and now? Or to put it another way, can you tell me about which reads shifted the most for you between those spots in catchup?
    Around the first 1000 posts my reads were super consensus-y (for example I was side-eyeing Axel before I got to his watcher claim). It's hard for me to really answer this question because I'm super disorganized when I catch up.

    Basically, the way I went through it was I opened up a Private Game Thread on MU and had it open the same time I was reading through the thread, and I just jotted down my instinctual thoughts every time I read through a post. Rinse and repeat every 500 posts, then I have a bunch of instinctual reactions that I clean up in order to make a developed reads list. So it's hard to really answer your question given that I didn't keep track of my reads in an organized way when I was reading through the thread.

    Quote from Keldeo »
    Also, what were you scumreading Grape for before you saw the claim?
    This was somewhat due to the Slothful slot since I was used to him being a fairly analytical wallposter on DLP (not 100% sure, haven't played with him in years) and he didn't really show me that side of him in his posts here. Also thought Grape was scum when he was catching up because he didn't have the nuance I was looking for in catchup posts.
    also, i really hate this post, and think proph/dkings is almost definitely not w/w
    Quote from Prophylaxis »
    Quote from Silver »
    @Proph did you see dkings claimed bodyguard when run up on D1? Do you think it's a fake claim/role?
    IIRC we only stopped lynching him because he crumbed his role a little bit earlier D1? Think that dkings is adept at fake claiming as either alignment (I recall he bragged that he crumbed a PR to be shot as Vanilla Town in The Walking Dead Mafia - holy sh!t how do I remember this, my mafia memory is kind of wild). Not really opposed to lynching bodyguard claims and if I wasn't working on a large group project around EoD1 deadline I would have pushed for dkings's lynch.
    Posted in: Mafia
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