For abilities like Yoshi that specifically trigger off the creature leaving the battlefield what it looks like in the zone it arrive in is not relevant as that is not the triggering condition.
Dieing used in the context of MTG is shorthand for leaves the battlefield and goes to the graveyard so any abilities that trigger off it have to be active on the battlefield to see the creature leave.
Alright, that makes more sense to me now. So bottom line is, Yosei does not trigger, because when the game checks, he's a 0/4 with no abilities. Thanks and thanks to everyone else who answered!
As far as the game is concerned there is no limbo the game moves seamlessly from the creature being on the battlefield to it being in which ever game zone it needs to go to.
In this case it does mean that Yosei, the Morning Star does go from being a 0/4 treefolk with no abilities on the battlefield to being his regal self in the graveyard. And as per the rule that K405 posted the game looks back to see what he looked like just before he left the battlefield to see if he need to trigger any abilities.
Yah, that makes sense. So then it would see he has no abilities and not trigger? But what about him hitting the graveyard as Yosei? Is that just nothing?
Lignify only has a target when it is a spell on the stack. When on the battlefield, it is enchating something. Yosei leaves the battlefield as a 0/4 with no abilities. Therefore, it won't trigger.
But Yosei's ability doesn't trigger when it leaves, "dies" refers to the act of him being put into the graveyard from the battlefield, so as stated in that rule, it would check where he came from (the battlefield) and say "This card was on the battlefield, and is now Yosei, and entered the graveyard as Yosei" Thus triggering? I dunno, that's just how I read that. But I obviously could be wrong.
Yes Lignify prevent Yosei from tiggering. The game looks at Yosei as it was immediately prior to hitting your GY to check for the ability which doesn't exist due to the Lignify.
603.6c Leaves-the-battlefield abilities trigger when a permanent moves from the battlefield to another zone, or when a phased-in permanent leaves the game because its owner leaves the game. These are written as, but aren't limited to, "When [this object] leaves the battlefield, . . ." or "Whenever [something] is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, . . . ." An ability that attempts to do something to the card that left the battlefield checks for it only in the first zone that it went to. An ability that triggers when a card is put into a certain zone "from anywhere" is never treated as a leaves-the-battlefield ability, even if an object is put into that zone from the battlefield.
603.6d Normally, objects that exist immediately after an event are checked to see if the event matched any trigger conditions. Continuous effects that exist at that time are used to determine what the trigger conditions are and what the objects involved in the event look like. However, some triggered abilities must be treated specially because the object with the ability may no longer be on the battlefield, may have moved to a hand or library, or may no longer be controlled by the appropriate player. The game has to "look back in time" to determine if these abilities trigger. Leaves-the-battlefield abilities, abilities that trigger when a permanent phases out, abilities that trigger when an object that all players can see is put into a hand or library, abilities that trigger specifically when an object becomes unattached, abilities that trigger when a player loses control of an object, and abilities that trigger when a player planeswalks away from a plane will trigger based on their existence, and the appearance of objects, prior to the event rather than afterward.
But here's another question I had:
Does Yosei instantaneously hit the graveyard? I was under the impression that "Leaving play" and hitting the graveyard were two separate entities. Considering it's a state-based action, would it not check to see which zone it hit, AFTER Yosei leaves play? And I also thought when Yosei left play, Lignify had an illegal target, and would no longer affect him. I see according to the rule it says it checks prior to the event.. But does that mean it sees Yosei as a 0/4 with no abilities before anything even happens?
My friends and I were playing a match, in which I had Yosei, the Morning Star out on the field, and my friend played Lignify on him. Next turn, I used High Market To sacrifice him, so I could tap him down and make him miss untap.
The question:
Would Yosei's ability trigger, or would Lignify cause Yosei to hit the graveyard as a 0/4 with no abilities?
My thoughts on the matter:
The second he's killed (leaves play), the enchantment goes to the graveyard, no longer enchanting him, so he reverts to being Yosei, the Morning Star. The ability checks to see where he came from (the battlefield) and he hits the graveyard, triggering the ability.
My friends and I were playing a match, in which I had Yosei, the Morning Star out on the field, and my friend played Lignify on him. Next turn, I used High Market To sacrifice him, so I could tap him down and make him miss untap.
The question:
Would Yosei's ability trigger, or would Lignify cause Yosei to hit the graveyard as a 0/4 with no abilities?
My thoughts on the matter:
The second he's killed (leaves play), the enchantment goes to the graveyard, no longer enchanting him, so he reverts to being Yosei, the Morning Star. The ability checks to see where he came from (the battlefield) and he hits the graveyard, triggering the ability.
I'm looking to make a custom deckbox for my Yosei, the Morning Star EDH deck. I'm trying to find a large (desktop-size, roughly) picture of Yosei's card art but haven't managed to dig some up after lots of searching.
Do any of you know where I might be able to find this? Thanks!
Why isn't Azami hanging out with her BFF? Are they fighting? I think the sheer card advantage given by Azami would help you a lot.
I would agree... That's a good point. Any ideas on what to switch out? Most of the instants I have are kind of useless, and this deck was designed to basically do nothing the whole game. Unfortunately, I failed to realize I have an unlimited mana/turn combo stuffed in there with Palinchron + Arcanis the Omnipotent with Pemmin's Aura attached.. Considering I run for instance Elixir of Immortality, so it just keeps getting Time Warp back.
As good as Oona is, I think she is counter-productive if you want to base the deck around his ability. She puts cards in RFG, where you can't get at them. Szadek is good, but he is too costy, and easily dealt with. I would also dump the Nihil Spellbomb. I would look into adding more cards that allow Wrexial to get through easily, like Distortion Strike. I also don't know why you're not running Sol Ring, considering this is multiplayer. Sadistic Sacrament is also counter-productive, and in multiplayer is not really worth the cost. I think since this deck is designed for multi, you should include a Blatant Thievery and also consider a free steal spell like Treachery. There are also better counters to run than Perplex unless you have a really good use for the transmute ability, which I don't really see one, you might as well run Forbid, which has buyback. I think as long as you have Diabloic Tutor you might as well run Demonic Tutor and Vampiric Tutor, as well as Mystical Tutor considering that UB has the best tutor/draw package. I could suggest some other changes, but let me know what you think about that.
Dead-Iron Sledge I'm iffy on, but there's no downside to you and it helps get general damage through.
Carnage Altar is an alternate sac outlet but not that great on its own.
Evangelize is a little random and off-the-wall, and doesn't really have much synergy, but no one expects it from white and it's reusable which is amazing.
Karmic Guide deserves a slot, and there's absolutely no reason not to run Archon of Justice, especially if there are troublesome artifacts / enchantments out.
Run Armageddon, you can tap down your opponent's board, earn a free turn to play things, they skip untap, then back to you where you just destroy all lands and have a full board of creatures left.
After all, I know how much you like land destruction.
Some of these, as you know, I'm already running. But I really like the idea of Carnage Altar, an extra sac outlet for Yosei, as well as the Dead-Iron Sledge. Because no one is going to want to block him with that on it :). I also really like Planar Collapse and the Armageddon idea. And the Archon would work as well... Any suggestions on what to take out?
As everyone knows, Yosei has a very powerful ability when he hits your graveyard, so this deck is meant to abuse that fact, and shut the opponent out for a few turns, at least. The idea is to get Yosei out as quickly as possible, via accel cards. For Example: Extraplanar Lens, Land Tax, Sol Ring, Thran Dynamo + others. Now if Yosei manages to hit the field (Permission decks will hate on you), then the idea is to either equip him with Lightning Greaves and swing in for some General Damage, or you can blow up everyone's field with Planar Cleansing or Day of Judgment for example, thus killing Yosei, and triggering his ability. Enjoy yourself in tapping down 5 of your opponent's permanents, as they get to skip their next untap step, leaving you with a turn lead. After Yosei valiantly sacrifices himself for the greater good, you'll want to reward his service with some cards like Resurrection or utilize his right-hand-female Twilight Shepherd's ability. Then you rinse, and repeat, every now and then blowing up ONLY their field, to swing in with your creatures and Yosei.
That's a pretty good idea. However, I also don't want to be "that guy" that takes infinite turns, BUT I am STRONGLY considering that now. Are there any others? Like for instance something with Wake Thrasher + Reality Spasm?
Alright, that makes more sense to me now. So bottom line is, Yosei does not trigger, because when the game checks, he's a 0/4 with no abilities. Thanks and thanks to everyone else who answered!
Yah, that makes sense. So then it would see he has no abilities and not trigger? But what about him hitting the graveyard as Yosei? Is that just nothing?
But Yosei's ability doesn't trigger when it leaves, "dies" refers to the act of him being put into the graveyard from the battlefield, so as stated in that rule, it would check where he came from (the battlefield) and say "This card was on the battlefield, and is now Yosei, and entered the graveyard as Yosei" Thus triggering? I dunno, that's just how I read that. But I obviously could be wrong.
But here's another question I had:
Does Yosei instantaneously hit the graveyard? I was under the impression that "Leaving play" and hitting the graveyard were two separate entities. Considering it's a state-based action, would it not check to see which zone it hit, AFTER Yosei leaves play? And I also thought when Yosei left play, Lignify had an illegal target, and would no longer affect him. I see according to the rule it says it checks prior to the event.. But does that mean it sees Yosei as a 0/4 with no abilities before anything even happens?
The question:
Would Yosei's ability trigger, or would Lignify cause Yosei to hit the graveyard as a 0/4 with no abilities?
My thoughts on the matter:
The second he's killed (leaves play), the enchantment goes to the graveyard, no longer enchanting him, so he reverts to being Yosei, the Morning Star. The ability checks to see where he came from (the battlefield) and he hits the graveyard, triggering the ability.
Thoughts?
The question:
Would Yosei's ability trigger, or would Lignify cause Yosei to hit the graveyard as a 0/4 with no abilities?
My thoughts on the matter:
The second he's killed (leaves play), the enchantment goes to the graveyard, no longer enchanting him, so he reverts to being Yosei, the Morning Star. The ability checks to see where he came from (the battlefield) and he hits the graveyard, triggering the ability.
Thoughts?
I'm looking to make a custom deckbox for my Yosei, the Morning Star EDH deck. I'm trying to find a large (desktop-size, roughly) picture of Yosei's card art but haven't managed to dig some up after lots of searching.
Do any of you know where I might be able to find this? Thanks!
I would agree... That's a good point. Any ideas on what to switch out? Most of the instants I have are kind of useless, and this deck was designed to basically do nothing the whole game. Unfortunately, I failed to realize I have an unlimited mana/turn combo stuffed in there with Palinchron + Arcanis the Omnipotent with Pemmin's Aura attached.. Considering I run for instance Elixir of Immortality, so it just keeps getting Time Warp back.
Some of these, as you know, I'm already running. But I really like the idea of Carnage Altar, an extra sac outlet for Yosei, as well as the Dead-Iron Sledge. Because no one is going to want to block him with that on it :). I also really like Planar Collapse and the Armageddon idea. And the Archon would work as well... Any suggestions on what to take out?
I sure hope you realize that Yosei is mono-white, and I can't run that card...
DECKLIST
0 Yosei, the Morning Star
- ACCEL -
1 Extraplanar Lens
2 Sol Ring
3 Gilded Lotus
4 Thran Dynamo
5 Expedition Map
6 Knight of the White Orchid
7 Weathered Wayfarer
8 Eternal Dragon
9 Gauntlet of Power
10 Land Tax
11 Endless Horizons
- TUTORING/DRAW -
12 Sensei's Divining Top
13 Idyllic Tutor
14 Planar Portal
15 Enlightened Tutor
- REANIMATION -
16 Angelic Renewal
17 Death or Glory
18 False Defeat
19 Lifeline
20 Kami of the Honored Dead
21 Colfenor's Urn
22 Cauldron of Souls
23 Sigil of the New Dawn
24 Karmic Guide
25 Adarkar Valkyrie
26 Graceful Reprieve
27 Breath of Life
28 Antler Skullkin
29 Second Sunrise
30 Mistmoon Griffin
31 Marshal's Anthem
32 Enduring Renewal
33 Pulsemage Advocate
34 Pull From Eternity
35 Miraculous Recovery
36 Resurrection
37 Reya Dawnbringer
38 Twilight Shepard
39 Austere Command
40 High Market
41 Miren, the Moaning Well
42 Rout
43 Planar Cleansing
44 Day of Judgement
45 Martial Coup
46 Akroma's Vengeance
- UTILITIES/YOSEI'S REVENGE -
47 Righteous Fury
48 Mass Calcify
49 Guan Yu's 1000-Li March
50 Hallowed Burial
51 Silence
52 Lightning Greaves
53 Condemn
54 Swords to Plowshares
55 Wing Shards
56 Ajani Goldmane
57 Elspeth Tirel
58 Gideon Jura
- YOSEI'S ARMY -
59 Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
60 Pentarch Paladin
61 Kithkin Spellduster
62 Crovax, Ascendant Hero
63 Duplicant
64 Serra Ascendant
65 Angelic Arbiter
66 Captain of the Watch
67 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
68 Knight-Captain of Eos
69 Ancient Tomb
70 Temple of the False God
71 Vesuva
72 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
73 Mistveil Plains
74 Kor Haven
PURPOSE OF THE DECK
As everyone knows, Yosei has a very powerful ability when he hits your graveyard, so this deck is meant to abuse that fact, and shut the opponent out for a few turns, at least. The idea is to get Yosei out as quickly as possible, via accel cards. For Example: Extraplanar Lens, Land Tax, Sol Ring, Thran Dynamo + others. Now if Yosei manages to hit the field (Permission decks will hate on you), then the idea is to either equip him with Lightning Greaves and swing in for some General Damage, or you can blow up everyone's field with Planar Cleansing or Day of Judgment for example, thus killing Yosei, and triggering his ability. Enjoy yourself in tapping down 5 of your opponent's permanents, as they get to skip their next untap step, leaving you with a turn lead. After Yosei valiantly sacrifices himself for the greater good, you'll want to reward his service with some cards like Resurrection or utilize his right-hand-female Twilight Shepherd's ability. Then you rinse, and repeat, every now and then blowing up ONLY their field, to swing in with your creatures and Yosei.
Double post merged. -viper
I've made some amendments:
-Spellbook, -Snapback, -Island => +Boomerang, +Crystal Shard, +Mnemonic Wall
U
0 Kaho, Minamo Historian
- CREATURES -
1 Aphetto Alchemist
2 Arcanis the Omnipotent
3 Deep-Sea Kraken
4 Fatestitcher
5 Palinchron
6 The Unspeakable
7 Venser, Shaper Savant
- PLANESWALKERS -
8 Jace Beleren
9 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
- INSTANTS -
10 Brainstorm
11 Cancel
12 Careful Consideration
13 Counterspell
14 Cryptic Command
15 Dream's Grip
16 Evacuation
17 Exhaustion
18 Forbid
19 Force of Will
20 Frantic Search
21 Hinder
22 Jolt
23 Mana Short
24 Mnemonic Nexus
25 Muddle the Mixture
26 Mystical Tutor
27 Peer Through Depths
28 Plagiarize
29 Reach Through Mists
30 Redirect
31 Sift Through Sands
32 Snapback
33 Twincast
34 Unsummon
35 Whispers of the Muse
36 Time Warp
37 Blatant Thievery
- ENCHANTMENTS -
38 Pemmin's Aura
39 Mind Control
40 Take Possession
41 Propaganda
42 Training Grounds
43 Treachery
44 War Tax
45 Cast Through Time
46 Diplomatic Immunity
- ARTIFACTS -
47 Lightning Greaves
48 Sensei's Divining Top
49 Sol Ring
50 Spellbook
51 Synod Sanctum
52 Thousand-Year Elixir
53 Thran Dynamo
54 Thran Turbine
55 Voyager Staff
56 Elixir of Immortality
57 Expedition Map
58 Extraplanar Lens
59 Feldon's Cane
60 Gauntlet of Power
61 General's Kabuto
62 Gilded Lotus
63 Heartstone
64 Academy Ruins
65 Ancient Tomb
66 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
67 Temple of the False God
68 Tolaria West