You misunderstand the concept of card advantage. Card draw implies drawing more than one card. Drawing only 1 card is just replacing the thought scour with a card from the top and therefore you get no card advantage, just some digging.. Nothing wrong with spells like this or ponder, but my point was that standard is missing good spells to refill one's hand.
I understand card advantage, you just said this wasnt card draw, not card advantage.
Now if you said, Thought Scour isnt card advantage here are my reasons.... then I wouldnt have misunderstood your post.
Anyways, I do agree with you about the lack of standard good spells to refill hands. We probably wont get anything amazing till Theros (not holding my breath for M14).
So I've been playing Bant Wolf Run for a about a month now and decided I want to go a little more aggro. I know esper colors arent really the way to go with aggro but in all honesty I just want to try something different and possibly win a few FNM matches.
So I know what your thinking... not so aggro and I agree. Im not sure if my choices are correct. Ive been playing a midrange deck for a long time so I feel like this deck has to be sort of a midrangy/ slow start kinda of deck. The colors im working with wont allow for an explosive start which is a problem I want to solve.
I still want to keep this on theme though so creatures have to be spirits, I could lean into maybe one or 2 creatures not being spirits if it will help the deck.
Card explanations: Cackling Counterpart- CC's are basically Drogskol Captain 5 and 6 (if i flash it back 7 and 8) they can also get me another Dungeon Geist or copy an angel off of GoST.
I really like acidic slime + restoration angel or flicker effects with acidic slime..... actually Ghostly flicker with said combo takes out 2 lands when you stack the ETB effects.
This started off as just wanting a budget control deck, but through tons of trading, even going as far as to deconstruct my beloved rakdos aggro deck in order to trade for the cards I needed, it has gone from simply a budget control deck to a full blown deck. Without further ado, here is my current decklist.
I do have 2 Tamiyo's, another jace, a Niv-Mizzet and a Nicol Bolas on order and on the way here, so when I get those I will probably end up going:
-1 Chandra
-2 Augur
-2 Revenant
+2 Tamiyo
+1 Jace
+1 Niv-Mizzet
+1 Nicol Bolas
Cards I'm considering:
Devour Flesh - Gets rid of those pesky hexproof stalkers and geists.
Grafdigger's Cage - Hate against reanimator mainly, got destroyed by an unburial rites combo at fnm yesterday. Problem is that it renders snapcaster and flashback useless.
Thoughts, suggestions, comments?
I personally use Devour Flesh and I LOVE IT. It combos well with Tragic Slip (you should probably consider it). Im not too thrilled with all the counter spells. The format is leading towards aggro decks so more creature control and damage (searing spear, pillar of flame, barter in blood, tragic slip, tribute to hunger) are my choices. When you get Tamiyo in the deck and you ultimate her its just so good when your holding all those cards I mentioned.
Also hexproof will be the bane of your existence, thats where tribute to hunger and devour flesh will help you.
The problem with Duskmantle Seer is that we want to be at a nice life total when we start controlling the board. Sure the extra card draw is nice but not when your giving the opponent more outs to your deck. Since we are a control deck they will more than likely be at a higher life total also.
Are you really splashing green just for mana bloom? Also what happens if they kill jace? Or if they kill sphere of safety?
How does growth not ramp you? It adds any color mana and replaces itself. Bloom only allows you to remove one counter so its pretty much the same mana wise, yes?
Hmmm, you could protect jace or sphere with Faith's Shield or counters..... He doesnt really need to spend anything once he drops sphere...
Can't you exile a cipher card from the graveyard? It says "exile card", and cards are cards as well in the graveyard, are they not?
Example card first....
Whispering Madness 2UB
Sorcery
Each player discards their hand and draws cards equal to the greatest number discarded this way.
Cipher (Then you may exile this spell card encoded on a creature you control. Whenever that creature deals combat damage to a player, its controller may cast a copy of this card without paying its mana cost.)
Your question is a little unclear do you mean.... Can you exile any cipher card in your graveyard when you play a cipher card?
If thats your question then..... Cipher says "exile THIS SPELL" so its pertaining to the card being cast not a cipher card in your graveyard.
has anyone played Junk tokens against Naya mid-range/ramp?
The person I am going to test this weekend has a Naya deck. I still haven't completed the parts for this deck though.
I did (naya midrange), its pretty tough if you dont have a quick start.
You need to play around restoration angel and thundermaw hellkite. Save your Ultimate Prices for them and Selesyna Charm as well for Hellkite and Thragtusk. Once they tap out play your kill spells.
Watch out for miracled Bonfire of the Damned, it sucks even when there are virtures on the board.
Im playing the junk tokens tonight so I'll let everyone know how that goes.
I understand card advantage, you just said this wasnt card draw, not card advantage.
Now if you said, Thought Scour isnt card advantage here are my reasons.... then I wouldnt have misunderstood your post.
Anyways, I do agree with you about the lack of standard good spells to refill hands. We probably wont get anything amazing till Theros (not holding my breath for M14).
I think Jace, Architect of Thought may have a place in the deck.
It is card draw... Im not sure what your getting at.
I mean the card does something else but you get to draw a card as well.
Ive actual been wanting to make mono blue just didnt really know how to bring it together.
Youve brought it together nicely. A couple of cards i would like to bring to light...
Sphinx of Uthuun seems a lot better than the avatar and it digs deeper to help you get whatever you need.
Sphinx of Chimes maybe...... if anything it diversifies your threats not sure when you'd want to use its ability though.
I like downpour vs gridlock in the early game. Late game you have sleep or bluster squall or even Aetherize.
I could also see the list benefitting from Planeswalkers, JAoT and Tamiyo seem legit for this deck.
AGREED.
Its still an amazing card. im pretty sure you dont have to build around it... just throw it in an R/W aggro deck and your good to go.
So here's the deck..
4 Doomed Traveler
4 Drogskol Captain
3 Geist of St. Traft
2 Dungeon Geist
1 Obzedat, Ghost Council
Spells
4 Lingering Souls
3 Midnight Haunting
2 Rootborn Defense
2 Ultimate Price
2 Cackling Counterpart
1 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Intangible Virture
2 Favorable Winds
Planeswalker
2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
Lands
4 Watery Grave
4 Godless Shrine
4 Hallowed Fountain
3 Drowned Catacomb
3 Isolated Chapel
3 Glacial Fortress
2 Moorland Haunt
1 Vault of the Archangel
So I know what your thinking... not so aggro and I agree. Im not sure if my choices are correct. Ive been playing a midrange deck for a long time so I feel like this deck has to be sort of a midrangy/ slow start kinda of deck. The colors im working with wont allow for an explosive start which is a problem I want to solve.
I still want to keep this on theme though so creatures have to be spirits, I could lean into maybe one or 2 creatures not being spirits if it will help the deck.
Card explanations:
Cackling Counterpart- CC's are basically Drogskol Captain 5 and 6 (if i flash it back 7 and 8) they can also get me another Dungeon Geist or copy an angel off of GoST.
Card choices I have considered that could possibly make this more aggro are:
Gloom Surgeon
Tormented Soul
Lantern Spirit
Phantom General
I do need sideboard help for aggro and control.
I really like acidic slime + restoration angel or flicker effects with acidic slime..... actually Ghostly flicker with said combo takes out 2 lands when you stack the ETB effects.
I personally use Devour Flesh and I LOVE IT. It combos well with Tragic Slip (you should probably consider it). Im not too thrilled with all the counter spells. The format is leading towards aggro decks so more creature control and damage (searing spear, pillar of flame, barter in blood, tragic slip, tribute to hunger) are my choices. When you get Tamiyo in the deck and you ultimate her its just so good when your holding all those cards I mentioned.
Also hexproof will be the bane of your existence, thats where tribute to hunger and devour flesh will help you.
I also agree with Devil's Play and Rakdos's Return but not both. I'd choose one and only run one.
I do agree with your changes once you get those cards. I would try to find another snapcaster mage or more if possible ( I run 2 )
So basically im thinking more creature control and less counters.
ok......
The problem with Duskmantle Seer is that we want to be at a nice life total when we start controlling the board. Sure the extra card draw is nice but not when your giving the opponent more outs to your deck. Since we are a control deck they will more than likely be at a higher life total also.
Verdict: Duskmantle Seer is not for this deck.
Not sure why you needed to bump this thread if your not looking for help other than "is this deck standard?".
Here is a link to MBC thread. http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=450394
Another thought, maybe not dedicate so much creature hate but also put in control elements (duress)
I also would like to see Olivia Voldaren in the build she can win games.
How does growth not ramp you? It adds any color mana and replaces itself. Bloom only allows you to remove one counter so its pretty much the same mana wise, yes?
Hmmm, you could protect jace or sphere with Faith's Shield or counters..... He doesnt really need to spend anything once he drops sphere...
Example card first....
Whispering Madness 2UB
Sorcery
Each player discards their hand and draws cards equal to the greatest number discarded this way.
Cipher (Then you may exile this spell card encoded on a creature you control. Whenever that creature deals combat damage to a player, its controller may cast a copy of this card without paying its mana cost.)
Your question is a little unclear do you mean.... Can you exile any cipher card in your graveyard when you play a cipher card?
If thats your question then..... Cipher says "exile THIS SPELL" so its pertaining to the card being cast not a cipher card in your graveyard.
I did (naya midrange), its pretty tough if you dont have a quick start.
You need to play around restoration angel and thundermaw hellkite. Save your Ultimate Prices for them and Selesyna Charm as well for Hellkite and Thragtusk. Once they tap out play your kill spells.
Watch out for miracled Bonfire of the Damned, it sucks even when there are virtures on the board.
Im playing the junk tokens tonight so I'll let everyone know how that goes.