This announcement does come as a surprise. I must admit that Wizards did their best, but the great modern experiment is slowly coming to a close. I really didn't enjoy the format very much, and I doubt I was in the minority. It was put on a pedastal, was very heavily funded and supported by wizards, and in the end it was more about how bad the format was and how expensive the cards were.
Eternal formats and Wizards will always, in some sense, be at odds with each other. Wizards needs to design cards that reinvent, develope, build out, and highlight the remaining design space that this wonderful game lives in. For the most part, eternal formats are run by design mistakes, accidental super synergies, and longstanding tradition type cards/strategies. Wizards forges the game forward and eternal formats look back at the best/most broken parts of its past. I honestly do not think Wizards can or should take a super active roll in the competitive eternal formats. Pretty much any decision of consequence that they could make would be more damaging than beneficial.
The one thing that they have managed to do well is sustain and grow the collective value of the modern cards. I firmly believe this is a good thing, and I really don't care if people disagree with me about that.
There have been several eternal formats over the years, and Legacy seems to be the best, followed by Vintage, with modern and the various versions of extended (double standard had the best funny name) a long way behind. Legacy took a while to develope in to what it is now, and it was probably just luck that it turned in to what it is today.
I am aware that most of my opinions are not shared, but on this relatively big piece of news, I wanted to share them anyway.
I wouldn't say that you need a degree, but it probably good to understand a few things.
Firstly, making money on magic cards (which us what you are actually asking about) is not easy. There are very few slam dunk win opportunities anymore. As Magic card investing matured, easy money has become hard to find.
Like all investments, there are significant risks with Magic cards. The different risks could easily fill a chapter in a book.
Huge upswings happen, but almost everyone is behind the curve on them. Sure, I own some Teegs, but I didn't stockpile them in anticipation of the buyout that occurred earlier this week.
Magic card investing is not like a real investment market at all. The transaction costs are silly high. Non-starcitygames retail sellers can and do void sales if you are buying a card that just spiked that was priced too low. Fraud, in many many forms, is a very real thing. Volume purchases (say 20k in value or more) are hard to make money on because very few people or businesses will facilitate a near market value repurchase of your investment. Heavy handed manipulation, whether done by a vendor or by a cohort of investors, of the market is a driving force behind the retail cost of Magic cards.
I know that a lot of this is coming off in a discouraging manor, but I honestly feel like too many folks have decided that Magic card investing is an easy and near foolproof way to make schloads of dough. Although you can probably find me lots of examples, people don't talk about when they took a bath on an investment.
It is similar to how you hear about the good casino stories, but not the countless bad ones. Based on what I hear about people's casino experiences, I should become a professional casino player. However, as we all know, in the long run the casino always wins and it would be supremely foolish for me to expect to make consistent money from casinos.
Counterspell and archangel are also a few more examples of cards that have had their rarity downgraded, but there were no mythics in 1994. I think that there are many more examples if you move to online only sets like vintage masters. Time spiral also had time shifted rarity so I don't know where that fits in to your question.
They did sell a few more last year after cancelling on people suspected of trying to buy multiples. I think everyone who purchased got one, but not more than one. The next pass through was a few weeks later and the window was much much shorter. I had one in cart on the second window and I probably was in within less than 90 seconds. I didn't get one. Again, congrats to the winners.
I also got one, totally stoked. Last year I kept pressing F5 like a dope and missed out. Was worried I would miss the window this year. Congrats to those who got them.
I really don't know why this item was singled out and not made available. Maybe they will be producing a bunch more of them due to the flack they took last year. I hope not as I like that this is a hard to find item. If there were on sale at walmart, they couldn't justify the price point. Oh well, I hope they give us a story about this sometime.
I would like to know if we have any confirmation that the promos will be on sale on thier website. I remember last year they said they would. Have they stated that for this year?
So what if Tarmogoyf is 200 dollars. I love how you state "1 staple that goes into virtually any deck with green is $200 a piece". It is like a beacon that says, I don't know what I am talking about.
Tarmogoyf is used in the following good decks
Jund
Zoo
Rock
Tarmotwin
Good green Decks which don't use Tarmogoyf
Pod
Boggle
Shapeshift
Amulet Combo
Hatebears GW
It just isn't as big a part of the meta anymore. Incidentally it is more like 180.
Eternal formats are expensive. That is thier nature. Yes, when modern was just beginning, it wasn't that way. You could point to a 2000 deck (one of the most expensive good decks) and call it unreasonable. I could point to a gigantic list of good decks that arent that expensive. You are cherry picking to make your point. It would be like me saying that lands was a typical Legacy deck or that Uba Mask Stax was a typical vintage deck.
This isn't a complaint thread, it is a prices thread. I feel like the current prices are appropriate. You obviously don't. Lets let the market settle this. Oh look I win. Want to play again. You lose again.
Thank you for providing a voice of reason. I am as sick of the people that complain as anyone. The really silly thing I see everywhere is the obtuse assumption that the most expensive decks are the best decks. Yes, a 20 dollar deck will get pwned by a 1000 dollar deck. However, over a dozen decks are good enough for anyone. The best deck only exists in terms of one event. The best deck changes from event to event. In addition, it is a non-trivial exercise to figure out what the best deck of a tournament was.
Time is money. Work for cards, don't try to complain in order to get cheap reprints.
I remember so many people demanding reprints of big cards. MM gave them what they asked for, but not what they wanted.
The only simple thing I can think of which should decrease the kind of cheating discussed here is to require players to deal cards to thier opponent. I know it sounds wierd but when you think about it but it would work. I have suggested it a few times in various forums but noone seems to think it is a good idea. That is fine with me but I stand by my point that it would help the situation.
I would also support judges doing it but I think it is a logistical nightmare and it would not do anything to prevent cheating in the early rounds, which is a pretty big weakness of that suggestion.
Where can I see mock ups of the new frames for various colors and combinations? link? I would like to have a bit more to look at before I make my judgement.
That being said, I bet Wizards expected some sort of backlash. I was there the first time they did this. Very few liked the new frame for 8th edition. I am sure we will all get quite used to this in time.
My vote goes to the All commons Child of Alara deck. I know it is is a primer deck, as is Norin (close second). I could care less if the deck is well known. We all define words in our own terms, so if my decks don't qualify as original to you, then ignore them.
I have been playing this deck for a few months now and I think it is a unique experience. I am always partial to using less expensive and/or more unusual cards. Although Child of Alara is a well know general, the deck strategy and style are not what most expect. I just want to thank the people responsible for this deck for thier work.
I would like to do what I can to continue the progress of the deck. I have found that untap effects paired with Karoo lands or high tide is a pretty slick way to finish games. I also have the black regenerator that decreases blue or red spells by one. I have a pet card, metamorphosis, which has been pretty useful for me. I am not sold on it yet, but thusfar it has been really useful and is another uncounterable way to sac child.
These additions have provided a more resilient combo finish than krosan restorer and the deck does not suffer from the switches. Basically, I have added.
Snap
Rewind
Frantic Search
Cloud of Faeries
Nightscape familiar
High Tide
All blue Karoo lands
There are many different ways to get infinite mana.
High tide (cast twice by wizard),familiar, wizard, snap
Two wizards, frantic search, one high tide, ghostly flicker.
One wizard, cloud of fairies, ghostly flicker, high tide/two karoos
High tide, two wizards, ghostly flicker, some cheap spell, Rewind
I haven't gone into the details of how each of these work and I am not saying that these are the only ways to accomplish infinite mana, but they are good examples. I realized the first time I won a game that my opponents had given up several turns before the game ended. I decided to investigate if there was a quicker way to finish off games and found this to be the best way. I know that there are many cards in these combos but the deck is very tutor heavy and many of the tutors are uncounterable. I have not found it to be too difficult to assemble one of the combos when the game winds down, for what it is worth.
If infinite mana is taboo in your meta, even if it involves 4 or more cards and the deck is only commons, it may be a bad idea to take the deck in this direction. If not, I reccomend you give this a try. As an aside, it is pretty satisfying killing off a table with a pile of commons in one turn(By countering your own spell to get an untap effect on 4 lands no less).
I have also added another kill spell beyond the fireball like card. I like skull rend quite a bit. The discard can be devastating to a table in the late stages of a game and it can be a kill condition with many of the infinite mana loops described above.
Eternal formats and Wizards will always, in some sense, be at odds with each other. Wizards needs to design cards that reinvent, develope, build out, and highlight the remaining design space that this wonderful game lives in. For the most part, eternal formats are run by design mistakes, accidental super synergies, and longstanding tradition type cards/strategies. Wizards forges the game forward and eternal formats look back at the best/most broken parts of its past. I honestly do not think Wizards can or should take a super active roll in the competitive eternal formats. Pretty much any decision of consequence that they could make would be more damaging than beneficial.
The one thing that they have managed to do well is sustain and grow the collective value of the modern cards. I firmly believe this is a good thing, and I really don't care if people disagree with me about that.
There have been several eternal formats over the years, and Legacy seems to be the best, followed by Vintage, with modern and the various versions of extended (double standard had the best funny name) a long way behind. Legacy took a while to develope in to what it is now, and it was probably just luck that it turned in to what it is today.
I am aware that most of my opinions are not shared, but on this relatively big piece of news, I wanted to share them anyway.
Firstly, making money on magic cards (which us what you are actually asking about) is not easy. There are very few slam dunk win opportunities anymore. As Magic card investing matured, easy money has become hard to find.
Like all investments, there are significant risks with Magic cards. The different risks could easily fill a chapter in a book.
Huge upswings happen, but almost everyone is behind the curve on them. Sure, I own some Teegs, but I didn't stockpile them in anticipation of the buyout that occurred earlier this week.
Magic card investing is not like a real investment market at all. The transaction costs are silly high. Non-starcitygames retail sellers can and do void sales if you are buying a card that just spiked that was priced too low. Fraud, in many many forms, is a very real thing. Volume purchases (say 20k in value or more) are hard to make money on because very few people or businesses will facilitate a near market value repurchase of your investment. Heavy handed manipulation, whether done by a vendor or by a cohort of investors, of the market is a driving force behind the retail cost of Magic cards.
I know that a lot of this is coming off in a discouraging manor, but I honestly feel like too many folks have decided that Magic card investing is an easy and near foolproof way to make schloads of dough. Although you can probably find me lots of examples, people don't talk about when they took a bath on an investment.
It is similar to how you hear about the good casino stories, but not the countless bad ones. Based on what I hear about people's casino experiences, I should become a professional casino player. However, as we all know, in the long run the casino always wins and it would be supremely foolish for me to expect to make consistent money from casinos.
Just my 2c, good luck and remember to have fun.
So what if Tarmogoyf is 200 dollars. I love how you state "1 staple that goes into virtually any deck with green is $200 a piece". It is like a beacon that says, I don't know what I am talking about.
Tarmogoyf is used in the following good decks
Jund
Zoo
Rock
Tarmotwin
Good green Decks which don't use Tarmogoyf
Pod
Boggle
Shapeshift
Amulet Combo
Hatebears GW
It just isn't as big a part of the meta anymore. Incidentally it is more like 180.
Eternal formats are expensive. That is thier nature. Yes, when modern was just beginning, it wasn't that way. You could point to a 2000 deck (one of the most expensive good decks) and call it unreasonable. I could point to a gigantic list of good decks that arent that expensive. You are cherry picking to make your point. It would be like me saying that lands was a typical Legacy deck or that Uba Mask Stax was a typical vintage deck.
This isn't a complaint thread, it is a prices thread. I feel like the current prices are appropriate. You obviously don't. Lets let the market settle this. Oh look I win. Want to play again. You lose again.
Thank you for providing a voice of reason. I am as sick of the people that complain as anyone. The really silly thing I see everywhere is the obtuse assumption that the most expensive decks are the best decks. Yes, a 20 dollar deck will get pwned by a 1000 dollar deck. However, over a dozen decks are good enough for anyone. The best deck only exists in terms of one event. The best deck changes from event to event. In addition, it is a non-trivial exercise to figure out what the best deck of a tournament was.
Time is money. Work for cards, don't try to complain in order to get cheap reprints.
I remember so many people demanding reprints of big cards. MM gave them what they asked for, but not what they wanted.
Legacy
Fetches
Duals
Brainstorm
Wasteland
Force of will
Modern
Fetches
Shocks
I would also support judges doing it but I think it is a logistical nightmare and it would not do anything to prevent cheating in the early rounds, which is a pretty big weakness of that suggestion.
Peace
Where can I see mock ups of the new frames for various colors and combinations? link? I would like to have a bit more to look at before I make my judgement.
That being said, I bet Wizards expected some sort of backlash. I was there the first time they did this. Very few liked the new frame for 8th edition. I am sure we will all get quite used to this in time.
-peace
I have been playing this deck for a few months now and I think it is a unique experience. I am always partial to using less expensive and/or more unusual cards. Although Child of Alara is a well know general, the deck strategy and style are not what most expect. I just want to thank the people responsible for this deck for thier work.
I would like to do what I can to continue the progress of the deck. I have found that untap effects paired with Karoo lands or high tide is a pretty slick way to finish games. I also have the black regenerator that decreases blue or red spells by one. I have a pet card, metamorphosis, which has been pretty useful for me. I am not sold on it yet, but thusfar it has been really useful and is another uncounterable way to sac child.
These additions have provided a more resilient combo finish than krosan restorer and the deck does not suffer from the switches. Basically, I have added.
Snap
Rewind
Frantic Search
Cloud of Faeries
Nightscape familiar
High Tide
All blue Karoo lands
There are many different ways to get infinite mana.
High tide (cast twice by wizard),familiar, wizard, snap
Two wizards, frantic search, one high tide, ghostly flicker.
One wizard, cloud of fairies, ghostly flicker, high tide/two karoos
High tide, two wizards, ghostly flicker, some cheap spell, Rewind
I haven't gone into the details of how each of these work and I am not saying that these are the only ways to accomplish infinite mana, but they are good examples. I realized the first time I won a game that my opponents had given up several turns before the game ended. I decided to investigate if there was a quicker way to finish off games and found this to be the best way. I know that there are many cards in these combos but the deck is very tutor heavy and many of the tutors are uncounterable. I have not found it to be too difficult to assemble one of the combos when the game winds down, for what it is worth.
If infinite mana is taboo in your meta, even if it involves 4 or more cards and the deck is only commons, it may be a bad idea to take the deck in this direction. If not, I reccomend you give this a try. As an aside, it is pretty satisfying killing off a table with a pile of commons in one turn(By countering your own spell to get an untap effect on 4 lands no less).
I have also added another kill spell beyond the fireball like card. I like skull rend quite a bit. The discard can be devastating to a table in the late stages of a game and it can be a kill condition with many of the infinite mana loops described above.
Peace