The Long Con bothered me a bit. What Sawyer does seems out of character. Not that I can't see Sawyer pulling a trick like that, but right now doesn't really make sense. I can see him doing it three episodes from now, but for him to do it so suddenly seems just that - too sudden. Especially with such a recent encounter with The Others. When Sawyer says "You and me ain't done," I was totally expecting Sawyer would transfer his desire to take vengence on to the Others.
Charlie, on the other hand, was in the correct situation for his character to pull such a move
Anyway, it'll be interesting to see what Sawyer does next, or how the group deals with him. It seems like Sawyer is this island's version of Jack from Lord of the Flies. I can't wait for the next episode. My theory is Mr. Eko takes him out.
Keep in mind I said that before The 23rd Psalm and therefore before Charlie and Eko had their encounter. Although Kate, Jack and Hurley had an encounter with the monster in the season one finale, I don't believe they actually saw it. At least not as blatantly as Eko, Locke and Charlie have. The best they caught were wisps of smoke as the monster dragged Locke to that pit. Though technically the monster is basically one big wisp of smoke, I didn't know that in December so Jack, Kate et al still hadn't seen it as far as I was concerned. Even now I'm unconvinced they truly saw it, but I'll check my DVDs about that.
No, they did. Locke at one point mentions to Kate that she saw him being dragged into a hole by black smoke, or something to that extent.
I love how they when reveal the monster, we still don't have a clue what it is.
Quote from {mikeyG} »
But if we're getting picky, everyone should be looking ragged by now. After a month, the people at the end of a season of Survivor look emaciated. Yet this is clearly not the case on Lost. Not that I care, it's a relatively minor quibble.
Not to mention they should all be looking a very bright shade of orange. But it's television, and if we didn't have the good looking characters continue to look good looking, it wouldn't sell.
Pessimism aside, it is a pretty minor issue. I think they're ragged enough personally.
Quote from Mr. Mxyzptlk »
I just don't see what is the big deal of the show and how it got so popular.
Personally, I think Lost is an absolute masterpiece. I know no television show better written. The shots are awesome. The score is wonderful. Usually drama shows get overhyped, or get really pretentious, or start becoming stupid. Lost does none of these. It's been two seasons, and even though questions get answered, the suspense is still there. If anyone knows a better TV show, by all means tell me.
Quote from Rowsdower »
Um, I understand that Locke was a social contract theorist, but The Second Treatise on Government was a direct response to Hobbes' "nasty, brutish and short" conception of the State of Nature. Locke believed that in the State of Nature, all men were equal and had Natural Rights...the social contract is created to enshrine those rights as man transitioned into more complex relationships with each other.
Locke, on the show, demonstrates this repeatedly. Though Sawyer sees Locke as placing himself in charge, Locke often reminds Jack that they have no authority to tell anyone else on the island what to do. His locking up of the guns does seem contradictory, but his rationales have always been in the vein of preventing members of the party from using them against each other...breaking the inherent balance and equality in their mini state of nature. Locke, the political philosopher, does posit that such inequalities are bound to arise as people live amongst each other, and so must agree to impartial judges (elected leaders, state laws) who are empowered as long as they protect the Natural Law. While "idyllic" might have been too strong of a word, you can't conflate Hobbes' and Locke's conception of the State of Nature.
Anyway, very good episode tonight...can't wait to see what happens when the countdown gets to 0.
Locke finding flaws with Hobbes does not believe that Locke disagreed with Hobbes on every issue. Locke was a social contract theorist. Social contract theory, by definition, follows the belief in Hobbes' state of nature: that mankind is competitive, and if left to its own devices without a form of control, life will be anarchic hell. Locke did state that men have basic rights, but this by no means advocates state of nature. What it means is that men have the right to rebel against their government if it abuses its power too greatly. This is in opposition to Hobbes, who believed that the government should have absolute power. However, Locke definitely believed in control. So, no, John Locke would not parallel John Locke the philosopher if he wanted to bring things back to the State of Nature.
Locke. Seriously. He may seem to be only eccentric but helpful, but a time will come when his days of playing nice are up. Who knocked out Sayid when he was trying to triangulate the distress signal? Who has seen the 'monster' yet refuses to tell anyone? Who tied Boone up and gave him magical orange paste hallucinations? Who lied about the circumstances of Boone's death (he was a goner either way, but he did conceal the hatch until forced to spill)?
What interests me is his name. John Locke... Maybe this is the Matrix rubbing off me, but I'm really curious what the names mean. Jack, for example. As soon as Jack said his name was Jack, my first thought was Jack from Lord of the Flies. Maybe with Jack becoming the leader of an army, this may be the case. But Jack isn't anything like Jack from LotF. Maybe it's just the creators messing with our minds.
Incidentally, I love the occasional shots of books that they show. Lost knows its literature.
But to contradict what you said, Locke is not the only one who saw the monster. Kate, Jack, I think Hurly, Charlie, and Eko have all seen it. And, more importantly, the entire audience has seen it.
Quote from Rowsdower »
Also, John Locke (the natural philosopher) was the one who felt that the State of Nature was idyllic.
NO NO NO NO NO!
John Locke was a social contract theorist! Social contract theory states that without a government, men's lives are nasty, brutish and short. What you stated was the EXACT opposite of Locke.
And the newest episode is not on iTunes. Highroller angry.
Oh, and I just remembered. Got sidetracked and didn't try this earlier.
unvote, vote Kevin
Man, I hope that works.
Database of criminal records... See, what bothers me is this. I think it's clear that JCSuperstar was an information role for the mafia. But the mafia had a cop. Can it be the mafia actually had two information roles working for them? But then, perhaps the false cop merely had godfather, and not investigation, abilities.
I'm not sure if the criminal records help either Crippled_Fist or Axelrod. Remember that the Salesman was neutral, Dwight was town, and this is Sin City, so almost everyone's got a bit of a crime record.
Note that it was not a photograph, but a drawing. It might just be some kind of sick fantasy, and he had some reason to want you dead, or incapacitated, or something. The more I think about it, it makes sense that jcs was Dark Horse, with the typewriter, and the reporter role, so he was probably your double or something.
Oh ok. Well that makes perfect sense then. JCSuperstar wasn't a roleblocker. The picture probably indicates that he knew I was in the game.
1. The PM I got last night mentioned nothing about being tied up. JCSuperstar, according to the PM, never entered my room. However, I know he targetted me with some sort of night ability that didn't kill me, or block my article from being sent out.
2. There was a photograph of me tied up on JCSuperstar's person.
Now, what we can do with this information, I'm not entirely sure of. Right now, I'm very curious if there is any kind of roleblocker out there.
Just to make sure we've got everything straight here:
Raf: Did you say who you watched last night?
carrion: did you say who you blocked last night?
One thought I just had: CarrionPigeons--Manute wasn't in the movie so I don't actually know very much about that character except LJustus said he was scummy.
Manute WAS in the movie. He's the black guy missing one eye.
And he worked for the mob in that movie. Since every mafia we've killed so far worked for Wallenquist, I'm pretty suspicious of carrion pigeons.
Quote from carrion pigeons »
Well, I claimed miller, if you recall, but as for alignment, yes, I'm town. I haven't seen the movie, but what I understood from my original google search was the he was huge and dumb. I'm not really sure that there's a particular explanation for my alignment; all I was really told was that there was a lot of prejudice against me in the town and I would basically need to prove myself if I wanted to earn their trust. I think Az was just trying to be difficult.
And the FOS still stands. That description is NOTHING like Manute. Manute was not dumb. He was a highly trained torturer and very evil.
Quote from aurorasparrow »
Manute was something of a strongarm for the pimps, but he wasn't dumb. Flavorwise, he's as mafia as Miho is scum.
Wrong again. Manute is very much mafia. He's the one who lead the mafia's attack on Old Town in The Big, Fat Kill. Miho, flavor-wise, is anti-mafia (although I do not believe draygn_mage is Miho), just as Manute is definitely pro-mafia.
However, I think it would be a good long while before I could ever bring myself to vote for carrion, given that he did lead an attack against the leader. If he were mafia, that would essentially be snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
No daykill... I'm liking this.
Once again, I'm going to have to look over the thread, but I do believe that Axelrod, Crippled_Fist, and Rhinocero all need to be very closely scrutinized.
Well, this makes me seriously doubt the validity of our Salesman's note, which puts more suspicion on draygn_mage.
Quote from draygn_mage »
@Highroller- what happened last night?
Good question.
I found JCSuperstar waiting outside my door throughout the night. This is similar to when I found RafaelK waiting outside my door during the first night. As you can see, I'm not dead, so he must have some kind of night ability that doesn't kill people. This, in itself, does not clear him. However, I'm pretty set on him not being mafia.
What confuses me is why the mafia didn't target him? Strange.
EDIT: Are you a mod, or a member of the mafia in this scenario?
I'm the mod of this scenario.
Here's the thing though. Let's say, hypothetically speaking, the person in question happens to run the mafia games on a given site, and has been proven to use such powers recklessly. What then?
I've got a question: What happens if someone has been behaving in an incredibly unruly and disruptive manner, but is the godfather of a group of mafia. How do you effectively neutralize him without having this time bomb ruin the game for everyone?
Personally, I'm pretty positive JCS is mafia because Matjoeman died. Hawkeye was able to protect Matjoeman during the day. The doctor wasn't. I don't understand why this would be.
Still, I would recommend, JCS, that you protect me tonight. If I am hit with an ability and do not die, we'll accept you as the doctor. If I'm not hit with an ability, we'll assume you're lying.
Vote WOLG. 3 people that I'm fairly certain are not mafia are already voting for him. If the mafia really wanted him dead, he'd already have been speedlynched.
Can't Highroller tell who is targeting him? In theory, I could protect Highroller tonight, and he could clear me the next day.
I like this plan, actually.
I don't believe WOLG at all. He claims Rafael when there are no other turtles in the game. He claims poison, which Raf never used. He claimed a post restriction when Rafael is the least likely turtle to have a post restriction.
I'm not going to vote WOLG right now, primarily because I think everyone needs to claim, and also because I don't want WOLG to be speedlynched. But I don't think it's any mystery that I think he's guilty.
Anyway, it'll be interesting to see what Sawyer does next, or how the group deals with him. It seems like Sawyer is this island's version of Jack from Lord of the Flies. I can't wait for the next episode. My theory is Mr. Eko takes him out.
No, they did. Locke at one point mentions to Kate that she saw him being dragged into a hole by black smoke, or something to that extent.
I love how they when reveal the monster, we still don't have a clue what it is.
Not to mention they should all be looking a very bright shade of orange. But it's television, and if we didn't have the good looking characters continue to look good looking, it wouldn't sell.
Pessimism aside, it is a pretty minor issue. I think they're ragged enough personally.
Personally, I think Lost is an absolute masterpiece. I know no television show better written. The shots are awesome. The score is wonderful. Usually drama shows get overhyped, or get really pretentious, or start becoming stupid. Lost does none of these. It's been two seasons, and even though questions get answered, the suspense is still there. If anyone knows a better TV show, by all means tell me.
Locke finding flaws with Hobbes does not believe that Locke disagreed with Hobbes on every issue. Locke was a social contract theorist. Social contract theory, by definition, follows the belief in Hobbes' state of nature: that mankind is competitive, and if left to its own devices without a form of control, life will be anarchic hell. Locke did state that men have basic rights, but this by no means advocates state of nature. What it means is that men have the right to rebel against their government if it abuses its power too greatly. This is in opposition to Hobbes, who believed that the government should have absolute power. However, Locke definitely believed in control. So, no, John Locke would not parallel John Locke the philosopher if he wanted to bring things back to the State of Nature.
What interests me is his name. John Locke... Maybe this is the Matrix rubbing off me, but I'm really curious what the names mean. Jack, for example. As soon as Jack said his name was Jack, my first thought was Jack from Lord of the Flies. Maybe with Jack becoming the leader of an army, this may be the case. But Jack isn't anything like Jack from LotF. Maybe it's just the creators messing with our minds.
Incidentally, I love the occasional shots of books that they show. Lost knows its literature.
But to contradict what you said, Locke is not the only one who saw the monster. Kate, Jack, I think Hurly, Charlie, and Eko have all seen it. And, more importantly, the entire audience has seen it.
NO NO NO NO NO!
John Locke was a social contract theorist! Social contract theory states that without a government, men's lives are nasty, brutish and short. What you stated was the EXACT opposite of Locke.
And the newest episode is not on iTunes. Highroller angry.
That it is not butter, I cannot believe.
But I think George Lucas needs to decide this.
Man, I hope that works.
Database of criminal records... See, what bothers me is this. I think it's clear that JCSuperstar was an information role for the mafia. But the mafia had a cop. Can it be the mafia actually had two information roles working for them? But then, perhaps the false cop merely had godfather, and not investigation, abilities.
I'm not sure if the criminal records help either Crippled_Fist or Axelrod. Remember that the Salesman was neutral, Dwight was town, and this is Sin City, so almost everyone's got a bit of a crime record.
Oh ok. Well that makes perfect sense then. JCSuperstar wasn't a roleblocker. The picture probably indicates that he knew I was in the game.
What we've got:
1. The PM I got last night mentioned nothing about being tied up. JCSuperstar, according to the PM, never entered my room. However, I know he targetted me with some sort of night ability that didn't kill me, or block my article from being sent out.
2. There was a photograph of me tied up on JCSuperstar's person.
Now, what we can do with this information, I'm not entirely sure of. Right now, I'm very curious if there is any kind of roleblocker out there.
Just to make sure we've got everything straight here:
Raf: Did you say who you watched last night?
carrion: did you say who you blocked last night?
Manute WAS in the movie. He's the black guy missing one eye.
And he worked for the mob in that movie. Since every mafia we've killed so far worked for Wallenquist, I'm pretty suspicious of carrion pigeons.
And the FOS still stands. That description is NOTHING like Manute. Manute was not dumb. He was a highly trained torturer and very evil.
Wrong again. Manute is very much mafia. He's the one who lead the mafia's attack on Old Town in The Big, Fat Kill. Miho, flavor-wise, is anti-mafia (although I do not believe draygn_mage is Miho), just as Manute is definitely pro-mafia.
However, I think it would be a good long while before I could ever bring myself to vote for carrion, given that he did lead an attack against the leader. If he were mafia, that would essentially be snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
No daykill... I'm liking this.
Once again, I'm going to have to look over the thread, but I do believe that Axelrod, Crippled_Fist, and Rhinocero all need to be very closely scrutinized.
The current write-up for me is accurate. The Caesar thing is a joke from MTGNews.
Wait! When did carrion pigeons claim Manute?
Vote Axelrod.
Well, this makes me seriously doubt the validity of our Salesman's note, which puts more suspicion on draygn_mage.
Good question.
I found JCSuperstar waiting outside my door throughout the night. This is similar to when I found RafaelK waiting outside my door during the first night. As you can see, I'm not dead, so he must have some kind of night ability that doesn't kill people. This, in itself, does not clear him. However, I'm pretty set on him not being mafia.
What confuses me is why the mafia didn't target him? Strange.
1. JCSuperstar
2. RafaelK
3. Carrion Pigeons
4. Aurorasparrow
5. Highroller
6. Axelrod
7. Draygn Mage
8. Crippled_Fist
9. Rhinocero (replacing Einsteinmonkey)
Remove the confirmed, and the "most likely not", and we get this:
6. Axelrod
7. Draygn Mage
8. Crippled_Fist
9. Rhinocero (replacing Einsteinmonkey)
Odds are our remaining two are in there.
Draygn: Why wouldn't the mafia roleblock JCSuperstar?
I'm the mod of this scenario.
Here's the thing though. Let's say, hypothetically speaking, the person in question happens to run the mafia games on a given site, and has been proven to use such powers recklessly. What then?
Still, I would recommend, JCS, that you protect me tonight. If I am hit with an ability and do not die, we'll accept you as the doctor. If I'm not hit with an ability, we'll assume you're lying.
Vote WOLG. 3 people that I'm fairly certain are not mafia are already voting for him. If the mafia really wanted him dead, he'd already have been speedlynched.
I like this plan, actually.
I don't believe WOLG at all. He claims Rafael when there are no other turtles in the game. He claims poison, which Raf never used. He claimed a post restriction when Rafael is the least likely turtle to have a post restriction.
I'm not going to vote WOLG right now, primarily because I think everyone needs to claim, and also because I don't want WOLG to be speedlynched. But I don't think it's any mystery that I think he's guilty.