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  • posted a message on Feelgood 80's Movie Mafia - Game Over: The Power of the Dark Side
    Oh woops, I didn't post song.

    Currently listening to: "Der Komissar" by After The Fire.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Feelgood 80's Movie Mafia - Game Over: The Power of the Dark Side
    Quote from TerRaine »
    Yes. If you are mafia who thinks goo is a cop and will be targeting igno then igno is the better kill.

    If you kill vaimes...then you have one dead town with a power role that is wasted. Vaimes is dead and isn't around to clear Igno and Igno continues on and would have to up his play given his null/uncertain status in D1.

    If you kill igno...then you have one dead town with a power role that is wasted AND one live Town with a power role which is wasted. Killing igno not only get's rid of a town but it makes the other useless role wise. Vaimes would get a green check on a flipped green player AND a decent mafia player can just turn it around and cast doubt on vaime's claim as convenient for hiding mafia

    This is the single most ridiculous argument you've made all game and it's a game in which you've made nothing but bad arguments.

    If the mafia has an uncounterable nightkill, their target would logically be the claimed cop, the primary threat to them and the guy who is likely to be the target of protection roles.

    It would make absolutely no sense to target Igno, who was both a lurker and a target of town suspicion and would be a potential cop/vig/misyeet target and best left alive for that reason.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Feelgood 80's Movie Mafia - Game Over: The Power of the Dark Side
    Currently listening to: "Billie Jean" by Michael Jackson.

    I have legitimately no idea how anyone in their right mind can argue that TerRaine is town.

    Quote from TerRaine »

    Since you bring it up there WAS a strategic benefit to killing igno if you believed Vaimes' cop claim.

    So Mafia-Highroller, with a 100%-guaranteed nightkill, decided to use it on Igno because he believed Vaimes was cop and that would provide a strategic advantage? That’s your argument?

    So, let’s follow this logic with me now. You’re arguing that I’m mafia-Highroller, I have a night kill that cannot miss, and I believe goo is the cop… and I kill IGNO for all of the strategic benefit he provides?

    Why would I not kill Vaimes?

    Don’t you think that would provide more strategic advantage?!

    On top of that, TerRaine’s attacks on Ecophagy were just obviously bad, and were subsequently followed by TerRaine jumping around so many times in voting people yesterday that it’s like a damn drinking game. TerRaine did at one point vote Rhand, but only when Rhand told everyone to vote for him as a joke.

    It’s just blatant at this point. Vote: TerRaine


    Quote from Axelrod »

    Then he does go on to have have a few more things to say about Rhand, though he misreads Rhand's post where Rhand is quoting Jack's reads as if they were Rhand's own reads. Rhand is now in his "bottom four," along with Ter, Jack, and Me. Maybe notably, Rhand (and me) are in the "Bronze" positions here, so, relatively safe places to put a scum-buddy.
    Says the guy who didn't vote Rhand.

    Rhand claims, and HR's reaction is to ask if this is a normal role for a 12 person game on this site? I get that HR was away from Mafia for a long time, but he was one of the OG players here, so that ask just seems weird to me.
    See, you were doing really well up until this point, and I considered dropping you to a null read, but then you posted this.

    I am an OG player in the sense that I hosted the first mafia game on MTGNews, the parent site for MTGSalvation, and played there for a long time. Up until Banned Mafia, which was 2018, I'd played one game on MTGSalvation, which was Mafia: Dominaria Style Seventh Edition, which was in 2005, and I was hosting. To bring up my being an OG and implying this means I should understand the meta here is incredibly misleading because I didn't play a single game on this site for those 13 years in-between.

    And the fact is, the metagame here is drastically different from MTGNews. I don't know how much of that is MTGSalvation versus how much of that is just the natural byproduct of over 15 years passing and the fact that no game stays the same for that long a time, but it is drastically different. Things like Vaimes doing this dance with his cop claim, or to go with what happened in Realm of the Elderlings mafia, a third-party role that could win the game without ending the game, just didn't happen.

    What truly bothers me about this? You should be well-aware of this because you were on MTGNews and you have actually been here during that interim, and even remarked when I played Banned Mafia of how long it's been since I've been on this forum. So you know damn well that I wouldn't know how the metagame's changed. Not to mention not a game goes by without someone remarking how weird I am for my views on mafia and how contrary they are to what is considered "normal" on this forum. You should know better.

    This is a reasonable position to take, and it would look better, but for the fact that Killjoy and myself were right there, so the chances of it going No Lynch were less.

    Honestly, I feel like the person who made that Lynch happen was Jack. Eco. and Rhand were pretty neck and neck in the last 90 minutes of the day. His switch to Rhand made Rhand the default choice. He doesn't do that, maybe we don't get a lynch at all.
    These two statements are completely contradictory.

    Quote from Axelrod »


    Town-you is just folding like a house of cards in the face of this completely wrong alleged Cop result? You're not even going to try and fight it? You just said you were (supposedly) contemplating re-direction scenarios, and the Mod. did NOT rule them out, but you're not going to argue for that? Just going to roll over and die.
    This has been posted multiple times by people and it confuses the absolute hell out of me.

    First of all, it would really seem to me that fighting would be the mafia play. A mafia has something to lose.

    Whereas if I'm town? **** it. I'm a vig with no nightkill attempt left. I'm literally the most expendable role in the game.

    I also don't understand the flipside of this argument. Suppose I'm town. Is it a reasonable expectation to think the town is not going to vote a guy whom a claimed cop who has not been counterclaimed said is mafia? No. There is no reasonable expectation in which that would happen. So why kick and scream about it? I would vote me in that situation.

    Whereas, as caught scum, it does make some sense. You're burned, you know you're not likely getting out of it. No point in wasting more words and potentially giving away more info. Of the two scenarios, that one seems much more consistent.
    I think Realm of the Elderlings pointed out that my recognizing that I'm ****ed and not bothering with a prolonged fight over it is, at worst, NAI.


    Quote from Jackrito »
    Nothing for me has changed Alex and Lagoon have pretty much said everything that needs to be said about how HR reaction to being cop checked, and his actions are in no way, ZDS also said it pretty well in 924 this is possibily just bussing, but I still feel he is town here if he wanted to save Rhand yesterday he could easily of just went onto me, but instead he gave me a hard defense which I found a bit unnerving. I know he likes to pocket me as scum but I don't think he gives up a teammate to do so. I also think his play has being pretty town and matchs more with my other games with him then prison.
    Yeah, Jackrito’s mafia.

    Mafia Jackrito plays follow-the-leader, and lo and behold, that’s precisely what he’s doing right now. This is exactly his play during Snow White Mafia, a game in which he basically said, “I think we should do what Vaimes said we should do because I agree with what Vaimes said.” He at least managed to make it slightly subtler during day one, but he’s just doing it just as transparently right now.


    Quote from gooLagoon »
    I'm kind of interested in pursuing worlds where Highroller is town, but it'll have to wait until tomorrow.

    Highroller, can I get an updated state of the game from your POV?

    1. Axelrod
    2. gooLagoon
    3. Grapefruit21
    4. Highroller
    5. Jackrito
    6. Killjoy
    7. Slothful
    8. TerRaine
    9. ZeDorkSlipeur

    1. Axelrod - Mafia read. He'll post things that are just blatantly wrong in ways he should know better.

    2. gooLagoon - Ok, I know I’m notoriously bad at reading Vaimes, but I’m pretty positive he’s town. I have no idea what he’s doing, I’m still not even necessarily sure he’s actually claiming cop or not, but “I have no idea what the **** Vaimes is doing with his trololol antics” seems to me to be Vaimes’ town meta. To add to that, Vaimes has not been counterclaimed, so there’s no way I’m voting for a non-counterclaimed cop today. We can hash out whatever tomorrow because apparently Day 3 is Designated Mass Claim Day on this site.

    3. Grapefruit21 - Null read. Grape hasn’t really pinged me one way or another. I will say that Grapefruit isn’t hedging nearly as much as he normally does. Really, Grape’s just a player I’ve long ago given up being able to read.

    5. Jackrito - Mafia read. He's playing exactly like he did in Snow White Mafia, in which he was mafia.

    6. Killjoy - Light town read. Killjoy is behaving exactly like he did in Realm of the Elderlings mafia. I actually do not understand what the case is against him.

    7. Slothful - Sloth is not being a gaslighting jackass and is posting things that remotely make sense. He’s town.

    8. TerRaine - Yeah, there is no doubt in my mind TerRaine is open-wolfing.

    9. ZeDorkSlipeur - Null read. ZDS is posting absolutely abysmal arguments and that’s exactly what he did during Shoushiling - or however the hell it’s spelled - in which he was town. However, he’s also not being anywhere near as aggressive. Might be suspicious, but it might also just be him improving. Really, the things that keep me at null for him are his not posting enough, and the fact that I’m really not familiar with ZDS’s mafia meta.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Feelgood 80's Movie Mafia - Game Over: The Power of the Dark Side
    Currently listening to: "Walk This Way" by RUN DMC ft. Aerosmith

    Quote from TerRaine »
    There's that dang echo again
    Because anything I've said in this game - or any other game, for that matter - is as ridiculous as your assertion that I, as a mafia, with access to a 100%-guaranteed-to-work nightkill, decided to use that ability on Igno, a lurker whom many were suspicious of, and who probably would taken up a shot of a town role ability such as an inspector or vig in order to flip, thereby exclusively benefiting the town and providing no strategic benefit to the mafia.

    As opposed to anyone else at all.

    A+ genius argument, keep up the good work.

    Quote from Grapefruit21 »
    To play devil's advocate for a second I don't see hardly any sense to HR claiming that shot as a vig if he's scum.
    Yeah, it's almost as though I'm town. Weird, right?
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Feelgood 80's Movie Mafia - Game Over: The Power of the Dark Side
    Currently listening to: "Paid in Full" by Eric B. & Rakim

    Quote from TerRaine »

    Like you just UTTERLY gave up when Vaimes said that.
    "Highroller expected the town to lynch a guy who claimed cop said was mafia! That's illogical and he must be mafia because of it!" Rolleyes

    Why would town roll over and die at a false red check?
    This makes no sense to me. It's like asking, "Why would you sacrifice a pawn to kill a Queen?" I can just die and reveal that he was lying. That's an insane trade, especially since I've already spent my kill attempt, so I'm just a vanilla town at this point.

    And again I am here asking you what about this train of events is Town.

    HR: False claiming a powerole is not a Town act.


    HR: I shall now target Igno, person who I my logic dictates does not have a Town wincon.
    First of all, my argument that this is not a town action is clearly invalidated by the fact that, apparently, that exact action - along with LYING ABOUT YOUR ******* INSPECTION RESULTS - is apparently a thing that nobody questions around here. Nobody else seems to be bothered about that. So I thought, ok, I guess this is a thing people do. I just came from a game in which a guy claimed a serial killer role and everyone was cool with letting him win, that baffled the hell out of me, I guess that's comparatively more weird than this, and Vaimes trolling on multiple levels is totally in keeping with his personality. I just chalked it up to yet another wacky thing you all do on this damn forum that confuses the absolute hell out of me.

    Second, he had a valid point. Igno is a low poster, if I didn't flip him, we'd probably have to burn an inspection or a lynch to figure out his alignment. Not to mention I just came from a game in which we had a similar situation with BoomFrog: didn't post a lot, was lurky, people said, "Hey, this guy might be an issue," but no one really ever did anything about it because it always seemed like there were higher priority targets, and guess what? He was mafia and they won.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Feelgood 80's Movie Mafia - Game Over: The Power of the Dark Side
    Currently listening to: "**** Tha Police" by N.W.A.

    Quote from gooLagoon »
    Okay, now that that happened—

    I do not have a red check on Highroller. It was a bluff.
    Of course you didn't. What the hell is wrong with you?

    Alright, well I might as well reread the thread now, since there might actually be a point and, no, I'm not going to self-hammer, ya jerkasses.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Feelgood 80's Movie Mafia - Game Over: The Power of the Dark Side
    Currently listening to: "Limelight" by Rush.

    Quote from TerRaine »
    Hahaha I lied. I can't sleep.

    HR answer me.

    Why would a town vig shoot a player not on their scum list?

    Honestly, between the last two games I've been in, I've had an abysmal record at finding mafia. I thought I'd idiot-proof this by going after the person everyone seemed to agree needed a flip.

    Quote from TerRaine »
    In what universe does THIS make sense?

    Vaimes: I am a cop!

    HR: I buy that!

    Vaimes: REALLY wanna solve igno.

    HR: Ah yes. The player I believe has the actual ability to find out an alignment without a danger of misyeet/kill has expressed interest in a specific player. CLEARLY the most Towny thing to do is MURDER THE HELL OUT OF THE PLAYER FOR THEM.
    I assumed after Vaimes posted this:

    Quote from gooLagoon »
    Oh should I rescind the cop claim now? Teach
    that he was admitting he wasn't really a cop.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Feelgood 80's Movie Mafia - Game Over: The Power of the Dark Side
    Currently listening to: "Sledgehammer" by Peter Gabriel.

    Quote from gooLagoon »
    I also asked the moderator about strongman kills vs. bodyguards and the answer was basically "it depends."
    I got a similar vague answer when I asked what sort of notification you'd be given if you were redirected.

    I'm not voting a un-counterclaimed cop. Feel free to hammer.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Feelgood 80's Movie Mafia - Game Over: The Power of the Dark Side
    Currently listening to: "Manic Monday" by The Bangles

    Quote from Killjoy »
    @Highroller: Pretend it's ET the video game and let your guilt fade.
    I feel better now.

    Also that might be a scum role in this setup with a BG and a vig already outed. You're basically a mirror of Eco's role, and the strongman bit is a bit too much for town to have I think.
    I think it actually makes sense. Recklessness with this role can result in causing more harm than benefit.

    Quote from gooLagoon »
    Yes, Highroller, I am a cop with a PM from the moderator telling me that you are Not Town.
    PMing Cantripmancer a question. Let's see if he answers.

    Even though this is role-madness, I don't know why you think anyone would believe there are two town vigilantes in a mini.
    Yeah, I can't say I blame them, honestly.

    Quote from Slothful »
    Why did you use your kill N1?
    Why wouldn't I?

    And why did you choose Igno as your target?
    Quote from gooLagoon »
    We really need to solve ignoramus so the whole game doesn’t have to play “lhf or lurking scum” all of Day 2/3.
    In fairness to me, he's solved now.

    Quote from Axelrod »

    And, gotta say, that was not the most inspiring of claims. I don’t want to completely rule out 2 vigs for the same reasons KJ said, but seems like a stretch. You didn’t even say your movie, or flavor, or, you know why.
    Confused I claimed Nada from They Live. I said this in response to one of your posts.

    Did you think the guy yelling, "I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I'm all out of bubble gum," was the doctor?

    Quote from Slothful »
    Why are we entertaining a world where Eco shot Igno when we have a player claiming the kill, regardless of their alignment?
    Especially since my kill cannot be bodyguarded.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Feelgood 80's Movie Mafia - Game Over: The Power of the Dark Side
    Currently listening to: "Blue Monday" by New Order.

    So... I know this is not going to do me any favors, but I killed E.T. I'm very sorry. I swear I'm not mafia.

    Quote from Slothful »
    It's ridiculous to expect a cop to out themselves D1 to counterclaim someone else, especially if they may be thinking Goo is town trying to draw the kill. If they think he's scum, they'd probably be looking to form a case and trap Goo.
    In that situation you out after you get valuable information so your inevitable death is not felt too badly by the surviving players. So really, never happens D1.

    This makes absolutely no sense at all. What's the sense in being a cop if you know someone is mafia and do not tell anyone? That defeats the whole purpose in being a cop in the first place! Especially day one, when you know there's going to be some protection role, and a killing of a mafia will not only net the town the death of a mafia day 1 - which is huge - but also townclears both you and whoever you inspect that night (unless of course that person ends up being another mafia, in which case you are balling out of control).

    There is absolutely no reason not to counterclaim day one.

    Especially since, if this is a bit, then Goo shows no sign of stopping it, so it seems like he's pretty serious about claiming inspector.

    In the world where you're town: Dude, we just started. Don't get so closed off already, that's how we lose games.
    You say this, and then right afterward, you go from, “I dunno if I think Highroller is scum,” and then immediately go to “Highroller is scum!”

    Quote from Killjoy »

    Highroller might be scum for jumping on Jack with me and last minute voting Rhand like he did. Also. following an ISO, he had Rhand at Bronze but never really pushed him at all.
    I didn't push Rhand because there were already 5 votes on him. I didn’t add my vote to him because he was already at L-2, so I voted Jackrito while I was waiting for Rhand to roleclaim. As for why I voted Jackrito, the answer to that is because the wagon against TerRaine wasn't going anywhere, and pragmatism is a thing.

    As for doubting the Rhandwagon, I stand by that. I didn't - and still don't - believe that so many people so quickly jumped from Ecophagy to Rhand is totally fine, nothing to look into. If you think that everyone who suddenly flipped from Ecophagy to Rhand on a dime like that is town, then you're out of your mind.

    I understand it looks bad, I knew I was going to take flak for this, but the fact is I doubted myself. I had 4 mafia reads: TerRaine at gold, Jackrito at silver, Rhand and Axelrod at bronze. I knew one of them couldn't be mafia, and frankly, my accuracy count over the last two games has been pretty abysmal. So when I saw the tide instantly switch like that, I thought, "Oh crap, what if I'm completely wrong and Rhand is town? Am I ******* up?"

    Turns out the answer was yes, I was ******* up, just in the wrong direction.

    Quote from gooLagoon »
    That certainly is a shot.

    I have a redcheck on Highroller, but we're going to spend the Day looking for the last one.

    (My check cannot be blocked, in case they tried to block me.)
    I’m really confused here. Are you claiming an actual cop check?

    Quote from gooLagoon »

    I'm pretty sure scum killed Ecophagy and Ecophagy vigged ignoramus.
    Actually, E.T. kill was me.

    I'm the strongman vigilante. I have a one-shot nightkill that cannot be prevented, roleblocked, or redirected.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Realm of the Elderlings Mafia: Game Over Mafia Win
    Quote from Grapefruit21 »

    The latter is more fun but in this case transforming into a dragon is something that does suck. Like a lot.
    Oh well :/ . I mean. mission accomplished if that's the case.

    The biggest problem aside from Vit is that Verity's role has zero utility until you know the roles of other people. On this site, mass claims don't generally happen before day 3. So the role is useless before day 3, pretty much. And then it's useless afterward.

    I think the neighborizer thing is a dry well. Either make masons or find a more useful mechanic to experiment with would be my advice. Or just let everyone talk during night, just not vote.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Realm of the Elderlings Mafia: Game Over Mafia Win
    Quote from Grapefruit21 »
    Lastly in role madness games like this you either have to give scum completely absurd roles or really limit the town. It's hard to give town satisfying powerful roles in role madness while keeping the game balanced.
    This is silly to me.

    1. If you can't give people fun roles, don't give people roles at all. The goal is to make a fun game.

    2. As I said before, mafia has always been able to function with an inspector, doctor, etc. It works just fine.

    Roles that cost more to do less make little sense. "Oh no, if we give people powers, they might use them! They might even keep using them night after night! We can't have that!"

    If you don't want people using their powers, don't give them powers. Just make a vanilla game.

    I can disagree on assessments of some roles (I think Verity is strong than HR did)
    Verity is among the worst-designed roles I've ever seen. I would have preferred being a vanilla town.

    Also, I get that you're in love with the flavor, and I've never read the books, but is turning into a dragon supposed to suck? Is it something you should avoid? Is turning into a dragon supposed to be the worst thing?

    Or are you supposed to feel like a badass? "Holy *****, I'm a ******* dragon!"

    The latter seems more fun to me.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Feelgood 80's Movie Mafia - Game Over: The Power of the Dark Side
    Currently listening to: "Eye of the Tiger" by Survivor.

    Sorry guys, my computer battery crapped out on me.

    Vote: Rhand. I won't let it go no lynch.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Feelgood 80's Movie Mafia - Game Over: The Power of the Dark Side
    Currently listening to: “The Final Countdown” by Europe

    Quote from Killjoy »
    @HR: he was town in PB.
    And I'd say he's closer to snow White by far, but Snow White has 13 posts.
    I agree that he's closer to Snow White by far, I've actually been thinking, "This is totally Snow White Jackrito," hence vote.

    Quote from ZeDorkSlipeur »
    The fact he had to be told to "come at [Ter]" is extremely atypical for him, a more usual reaction is "leave me alooooone". Here the paragraph on Ter is basically tacked on at the end of #570 so we don't forget he is/was scumreading her.
    I have done nothing but read Ter as mafia since the day has began, and now I'm being told I'm mafia because I'm not aggressive enough? Honestly, I'm not even sure whether to point out the things wrong in what you're saying or just be offended.

    The switch to Jackrito is... eh. The rationale behind it is fine on the surface, however AFAICT HR is/was scumleaning on Rhand and it doesn't make a lot of sense to scumread Jack in this situation unless expecting Rhand to flip town. The timing of it is suspicious as well, right after KJ interrogated Jack.
    Or unless I also think Jackrito is mafia, and moreso than Rhand. Maybe read my posts.

    Not to mention no one's voting TerRaine, and I didn't trust the Rhandwagon before Jackrito jumped on it.
    Quote from gooLagoon »
    Quote from Highroller »
    Jackrito is behaving just like he did in Snow White and he was mafia then. What are you talking about?
    He was questioned with the same intensity as Killjoy is doing to him here?
    He's doing what he did in that game, bending wherever the wind blows. He's not doing it as explicitly as "I agree with Vaimes for all of the reasons Vaimes said," but he's still shifting his positions based on the reactions of others.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Feelgood 80's Movie Mafia - Game Over: The Power of the Dark Side
    Currently listening to: "The Safety Dance" by Men Without Hats.

    Ok, in the middle of something right now, will make a longer post in a few, but really important:

    Quote from Rhand »
    Looks like I’m in claim range.
    I am Robocop, town gifter. I hand out a BP vest.
    Ok, question to people who've played a lot of games on here: is this a normal role to have in a 12-person game on this site?
    Posted in: Mafia
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