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  • posted a message on Secret Agent Mafia Day 5 Horseshoes and Hand grenades
    Am fine with the LnGrrrR lynch. Want to reread the thread once more just focusing on known mafia, Vaimes, and Ecophagy.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Cantripmancer's Micro-a-Thon: Choose Your Own Adventure (Signups) 8/7
    Dude, Scum Love The King sounds fascinating.

    /in.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Secret Agent Mafia Day 5 Horseshoes and Hand grenades
    Quote from Cantripmancer »
    Quote from Highroller »
    I don't understand the big deal with confirming Ecophagy's item working. There's 1 mafia. LnGrrrR and Ecophagy cannot both be lying.
    If LnG tries to send a message and it doesn't work, then Eco is a scum fake inventor, giving out "gifts" that don't actually function. If the message comes through as expected, it doesn't clear anyone, but on the off chance that it doesn't work, it's an easy win.
    Oh wait, I'm sorry, I'm dumb. I missed the part where LnGrrrR could PM during the day. Yeah, no, that makes more sense.

    So wait, Ecophagy, do you have any idea what sort of abilities you can grant, or was that list not given to you?
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Secret Agent Mafia Day 5 Horseshoes and Hand grenades
    I don't understand the big deal with confirming Ecophagy's item working. There's 1 mafia. LnGrrrR and Ecophagy cannot both be lying.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Secret Agent Mafia Day 5 Horseshoes and Hand grenades
    Well I'm definitely going to get nightkilled tonight.

    Quote from Cantripmancer »
    Yeah, I really wish Tom had telegraphed his N2 choice better.
    I really wish he'd just come out and told us exactly what he knew instead of keeping it a secret.


    I'll have to reread tom's posts. I'm very hesitant to buy into cantripmancer's read, but if we could isolate it down to a binary choice between Ecophagy and LnGrrrR, then fantastic.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Secret Agent Mafia Day 5 Horseshoes and Hand grenades
    Quote from Vaimes »
    Didn’t vezok claim he needed a coin to use his power? Not that he was one-shot.
    Both.

    Quote from vezokpiraka »
    Thanks for running me up for no ******* reason. Solid play from you guys.

    I have a 1-shot cop that costs 2 coins. I tried to breadcrumb it by appearing way more convinced than I actually was, but that only got me more votes.

    @Cantrip: I wasn't really trying to defend HR as much as show just how bad the arguments against him were. GJ has expressed his suspicion on me and HR being based on tone which you can't defend against. People are calling HR a lurker when he didn't have time to post for the first two days. I have a wagon with 4 people who have not expressed any reason for their vote and one GJ who says he doesn't like my tone. I'd defend myself if I was actually given the chance and I wasn't too worried due to my claim.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Secret Agent Mafia Day 5 Horseshoes and Hand grenades
    Quote from Vaimes »

    Odds were super high that town would turn on vezok after he survived two additional Night phases after his claim, unless they started No Killing to make it look like a Doc was in the game. tom CC'ing puts him in a near-unlynchable position, which is super good for scum.

    After vezok's claim, I don't think they'd be able to get two additional mislynches while maintaining the Cop facade. And who's to say that GJ or tom wouldn't have gotten lynched in the meantime?
    They could have easily gotten one with me day 3 after lynching someone day 2.

    Also, vezok's cop claim was one-time.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Secret Agent Mafia Day 5 Horseshoes and Hand grenades
    I understand questioning the game from every angle, and it's not like tomsloger hasn't done anything that's made me raise my eyebrows (bandwagoning shadowlancerx, not claiming his role). And it's not like I wouldn't love to lynch him based on his posting gimmick this game, which makes rereading the thread painful.

    But I don't understand the logic behind the play. What practical sense did bussing vezok make?

    Like, vezok claimed rent-a-cop, and then everyone left vezok alone. The only reason people voted vezok again is because tomsloger counterclaimed. So like, yeah, you now have a mafia who everyone is willing to consider town and not vote for... At the cost of a mafia that everyone was willing to consider town and not vote for. If this is an actual mafia gambit, then the mafia exchanged 1 prominent mafia that people consider to be town and two other mafia also alive for 1 prominent mafia that people consider to be town and 1 other mafia also alive.

    Why would they do that? Remember they started Day 2 out with a mafia that everyone was willing to trust was a cop, and all they had to do to win was get the town to lynch a town for the next two days. Keep in mind, I had suspicion on me after shadowlancerx flipped town, so all they needed to do was get the town to lynch one more guy. To the best of their knowledge, they had the game. Why would tomsloger then proceed to throw it? Even more so, why would the other two agree to this plan?
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Secret Agent Mafia Day 5 Horseshoes and Hand grenades
    So, what now? Deadline isn't until the 27th. We seem to have a lynch. Is there anything else that needs be done?
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Secret Agent Mafia Day 5 Horseshoes and Hand grenades
    Ok, done rereading the thread.

    Yeah, Rhand's the obvious lynch for today.

    In addition to being shifty in general, and repeatedly townclearing the people we now know to be mafia, there are two huge red flags day one.

    So on post 422, Rhand votes me. On post 427, he unvotes me. What happened during those posts?

    Quote from Rhand »
    Quote from Rhand »
    hi rhand

    could you elaborate on your gj town read?

    I guessed his role.


    o-0

    And nothing else? (I mean, unless your guess was IC I suppose)

    Nothing else, but I’m pretty sure I’m right. We should really stop this conversation though.

    Why is tom nowhere to be seen in your wolf team considerations GJ?

    Quote from Vaimes »

    Feels like tom decided Rhand is scum and is finding reasons for it on the fly.

    This is why I think tom is scum.

    Quote from LnGrrrR »

    Then a lighthearted #197 "rand scum for going the wrong direction on cantrip/shadow" (which, as far as I can tell, is a jokey way to tell Rhand he's incorrect)

    See that's where my problem lies. That post doesn't feel lighthearted to me; it feels like he has a strong opinion on the Cantrip/Shadow duo. And when I ask him about that, he brushes it off, only to call me scum when I pressure on.
    If this is town!tom with a gimmick, I'm going to have a very tough time figuring out which reads are serious and which ones are a joke.
    Maybe it's because I'm not native English, but I don't feel the lightheartedness of that post.

    Quote from Cantripmancer »

    And no, being suspected by Rhand and Cheesecake doesn't count as pressure (but does it count as being attacked by a beefcake with a cheesecake?).

    I lol’ed
    Quote from Cantripmancer »

    Quote from Rhand »
    Quote from shadowlancerx »
    Quote from Rhand »
    What stage of the game was that Vaimes?
    It was 1900 posts in, near the end of day 3 (I was curious so I checked).

    I read the game from there to the end. Shadow lost that game, which reinforces my idea that Shadow wouldn’t claim vt as scum this early.
    Why? Again, I don't see how Shadow's claim in that game really affected anything, so what does it do for you?

    I know Shadow can come up with claims as scum that make him ride all the way to the end. I just can’t imagine a player of his caliber deciding to claim VT out of the blue early D1. It gives him no mechanical outs later on in the game, and he loves those.

    Quote from Cantripmancer »

    Quote from Rhand »
    I’m gonna reread Highroller
    This feels fake. Why post this rather than checking the iso, seeing two posts, reading them, and saying "I just reread HR"?

    We were live chatting when I said this. I was actually surprised there were only 2 posts to look at.

    Quote from Cantripmancer »

    Quote from Rhand »
    Quote from tomsloger »
    Overarching, rhand is scum for falling into the trap of how [generic scum] interact with [nonspecific town they dont know what to do with]
    It should surprise no one here i have a lot of experience with that. And his progression on me is straight up that as well as fake.

    Cheesesteak scum for not just reading the 3 paragraphs i already did on this.

    As for gj read. Not super into talking about it but if i fully understood it all its a read scum are more likely to make but less likely to vocalize when they do. So i can see you thinking its not a route wolves are likely to take but dont think its more than a percentage point or two and barely care about it

    You’re ignoring my whole thought progression to fit your narrative.
    Will you outline your thought progression again for me, please?

    I woke up, skimmed the thread and saw that post of tom’s I reacted to.
    Reading more, I realized he was calling everyone scum and was playing a gimmick.
    I from there on had 2 conversations with tom at the same time: 1 about the initial issue and him calling me scum over nothing and 1 about how distracting his gimmick is. And I have the feeling he was baiting me with this:
    Quote from tomsloger »
    Quote from Rhand »

    @tom: why are you so sure I’m choosing wrong in Cantrip / Shadow? (and that there’s scum in those 2?)
    rhand scum for thinking im sure of anything


    @Highroller: you’re missing shadow’s point completely. You didn’t roleclaim, you nameclaimed. In Banned mafia you roleclaimed immediately.

    @Vezok: Why is Highroller town? And why is tom being “really transparent compared to his usual game” a town tell for him?

    unvote, vote Highroller
    Quote from vezokpiraka »
    Highroller is town for correctly calling out everyone who called him scum from his two posts. There was nothing of substance in those posts to make anyone really be swayed yet several people said he is scummy for it. Highroller comes back by throwing question at everyone who scumread him. That's exactly the tonwie play he did in banned mafia when he caught people.

    And your argument about him roleclaiming immediately is bad and you know it. He claimed a part of his role that he guessed would help the town and kept the rest close to his chest. He had a daykill that got activated by having someone eat a corpse he made with his first ability that he claimed and told everyone to knock themselves out on eating the corpses.

    Highroller is not stupid and knows exactly what and how much to claim in every game.

    Regarding tom, being transparemt is good because at the end of the day tom is hard to read as any alignment, but he keeps his cards way closer to his chest as scum. Here he is actively giving reasons for his scumreads even though some are jokes.

    Claiming tom's gimmick is distracting because you only read the attack on and got confused is irrelevant. Town doesn't get scared when a single person accuses them of something irrelevant/non-sensical.

    It's amazing how in a single post you made me go from Rhand probably scum to Rhand certainly scum.
    Quote from Rhand »
    Quote from vezokpiraka »
    Highroller is town for correctly calling out everyone who called him scum from his two posts. There was nothing of substance in those posts to make anyone really be swayed yet several people said he is scummy for it. Highroller comes back by throwing question at everyone who scumread him. That's exactly the tonwie play he did in banned mafia when he caught people.

    And your argument about him roleclaiming immediately is bad and you know it. He claimed a part of his role that he guessed would help the town and kept the rest close to his chest. He had a daykill that got activated by having someone eat a corpse he made with his first ability that he claimed and told everyone to knock themselves out on eating the corpses.

    Highroller is not stupid and knows exactly what and how much to claim in every game.

    The “and you know it” part there is bad and you know it.
    I wasn’t in that game. I saw an early huge claim, and a lot of conviction that he can break games with mass role claiming.
    I did not know he hid part of his role.
    Fact is still that he pushed for a mass roleclaim there and not here.
    There’s also the post frequency, but that remains to be seen.


    Regarding tom, being transparemt is good because at the end of the day tom is hard to read as any alignment, but he keeps his cards way closer to his chest as scum. Here he is actively giving reasons for his scumreads even though some are jokes.

    Claiming tom's gimmick is distracting because you only read the attack on and got confused is irrelevant. Town doesn't get scared when a single person accuses them of something irrelevant/non-sensical. [quote]
    Tom’s gimmick is distracting period. If you are good at seeing where he’s serious and where not, good for you. I can’t.
    I’m ok with him talking in poems or whatever, but this particular one has me all confused as to what he’s really saying. It also gives him no accountability whatsoever: I called him out over one of his supposed reads (which was even a real one), and he brushes it off.

    [quote]It's amazing how in a single post you made me go from Rhand probably scum to Rhand certainly scum.

    And I thought you could actually read me. Are you scum with tom Vezok?
    </blockquote></blockquote>
    Quote from vezokpiraka »
    Sorry, I thought you were in that game. Doesn't really explain why you couldn't be bothered to check his role at the end of the game to see his real role.

    And even then your argument still falls flat, because highroller's daykill was only usable if he knew everything about a player (card name, type and mana cost) so pushing for a mass claim was the right play regarding his role. He needed to have all cards on the table in order for his ability to work.

    And attacking players for not being around is scummy in all situations as a defense is either impossible (we can't know what highroller is doing irl) or against the rules of the game (don't talk about ongoing games)

    Highroller has given no sign that he missed much of the day on purpose and not because of real life.

    Like your entire attack on highroller is "he did something in another game as town and not here" completely ignoring the reasons why he did what he did and that "he hasn't posted much". You of all people should know that life gets in the way of both town and scum and it's as NAI as NAI gets.
    Quote from Rhand »
    Mkay.
    unvote
    vote tom
    Conversation with vezok.

    So we keep going through the thread, until we get to post 675.

    Quote from Rhand »
    tom's meta is actually super easy.

    If he is silly and his posts give you a headache, he is probably town.

    If he is more serious, business like, he is a wolf.

    Playstation is his most recent wolf game, that I recall. tom is also one of the few players I will actually use meta on, and only as a leaning rule. I think I mentioned this to him as well, but he has stuck to it.

    I researched this and it seems to be true.
    Which makes me happy because Vezok is my second current scumread (kind of tied with Highroller) and tom switching to him felt iffy.

    unvote, vote Vezok

    My current world view:

    Town:
    Lngrrr
    Cheese
    GJ

    Lean town:
    Shadow
    Vaimes
    tom

    Null:
    Ruma (moved down to null because he's not leaving enough of an impression to solidify a townread. Not giving me scumvibes either)
    Eco (he doesn't seem to take stances. Not interested in seeing him lynched D1, but expecting good analysis and real reads from D2 onwards)
    Cantrip (I'm starting to doubt my read on him. Happy to leave him be for the time being and look back into him on a later Day)

    Lean scum:
    Vezok
    Highroller

    The tom research rocked my boat, I think I need a flip to do a full re-evaluation.
    So, reacting to a GJ post, he says, "Yeah, I'm going to vote vezok, he's my second after Highroller on mafia."

    So, follow this with me now. First he votes me. Then talks to vezok, and after a brief conversation with vezok, votes tomsloger. He then continues to vote tomsloger. Then, reacting to a GJ post, he votes vezok, says that he's leaning towards tomsloger being town, and says that vezok and I are his two highest mafia reads.

    How do you even do that?

    ----------

    2. Highroller
    3. tomsloger
    5. Cantripmancer
    6. Rhand
    7. LnGrrrR
    8. Vaimes
    12. Ecophagy

    tomsloger is about as cleared as he could be in my mind. The mafia could not have anticipated Riku blocking a kill and outing Gentleman Johnny. Had that kill gone through, and were vezok and GJ still alive, the mafia would have already won the game. There is no reason for tomsloger to have made the play he did. Not to mention with the breadcrumbing, and the manner of his counterclaim, it would be bewildering for him to end up being mafia.

    Obviously I'm not going to vote myself.


    I believe the most suspicious three are Rhand, Cantripmancer, and LnGrrrR.

    Cantripmancer: First of all, if Rhand flips town, we should DEFINITELY look at Cantripmancer for that reason alone. There's also the fact that he's acted weird all game. He's admitted he's excited and manic, but there's a difference between being manic and being pretty much a Looney Tunes character, which is what he was day one. He didn't act anything like this during Banned Mafia. It reads phony, like a mafia trying to appear town - a tone I get from so many of his posts.

    LnGrrrR's roleclaim is pretty suspicious. There's also something that GJ did that really bothers me. In the early game, GJ repeatedly went after LnGrrrR, putting pressure on him. Keeps doing it. And yet, on post 122, GJ says that the mafia are Eco, Vaimes, and one of Azrael or me. Not LnGrrrR, the guy he'd been pushing. Never did he post any sort of justification or acknowledgement of this shift. That's been bothering me for a while now. Why drum up suspicion against someone and then abruptly stop short of actually proclaiming them mafia or voting for them?

    Difficult to say who'd be more suspicious between Vaimes and Ecophagy. Based on behavior, Vaimes, but I find Ecophagy's role to be suspicious.

    -----

    Quote from Vaimes »

    vezok was doomed the moment he claimed Cop. Scum got a mislynch D1, but vezok was never endgaming. Bussing is only natural in that position.
    Vezok would have been doomed if he hadn't claimed cop. He had too many votes on him.

    -----

    Questions to specific people:

    tomsloger:
    What is your role?

    LnGrrrR:
    Could you go over again your mindset behind the role phishing and why you thought Eco was supertownie (Post 111)?

    Vaimes:
    Could you explain your mindset when you shuffled on voting shadowlancerx on page 17?
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Secret Agent Mafia Day 5 Horseshoes and Hand grenades
    Rhand, you didn't answer my question: What was your rationale for declaring two people to be town on page 2?

    Other questions:
    What was your rationale for voting for me in post 422?
    What was your rationale for unvoting me in post 425?
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Secret Agent Mafia Day 5 Horseshoes and Hand grenades
    Quote from Cantripmancer »

    @Highroller: Where you at, man? Come analyze!
    Working on it.

    Working on an analysis, but really quick question: Rhand, why did you declare Cheesecake and GJ town on page 2?
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Secret Agent Mafia Day 5 Horseshoes and Hand grenades
    Quote from Rhand »
    I’m Rich Vanilla Town.
    I’m GJ’s town counterpart. I sent Highroller a message last Night to prove I started with 1 coin.
    I can confirm I received this message.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Secret Agent Mafia Day 5 Horseshoes and Hand grenades
    What does antispew mean, anyway? I'm not familiar with the lingo here.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Secret Agent Mafia Day 5 Horseshoes and Hand grenades
    Quote from tomsloger »
    highroller/vaimes
    It actually is surprising to me that you'd rank me that high. What changed?
    Posted in: Mafia
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