I think no card should be capped at any point. Ban them or don't. This is why counter spells exist.
If a game is at a stage where 15+ mana is getting made unchecked it should end. If it gets to this point and you’re not equiped with enough answers/prevention they should roll a big wave.
If i play a 1/1, then a 2/2 then a 3/3 and beat face from 40 to 0 over the course of 5-10 turns, whatever, win, it is legit. It is no less legit if somebody plays Swamp, expedition map -> cabal coffers, swamp, swamp, swamp = kill you turn 10 after controlling the board. If nobody can recognise the plan, rally some people or resoucres to deal with it then tough. Thats the way it goes.
In answering the question yes i would play G.Wave for 12 and Exsaguinte for 13. They still win/swing the game.
Yeah, for the list I put up, maybe Necrotic Ooze over something like Beacon of Unrest. You're trading away the ability to revive an artifact or something of your opponent's for a few points of mana efficiency, and possibly extra combo potential. I'm not sure on Buried Alive though. The deck already averages a turn 5 kill, with a few backup plans, so how does this help?
Buried Alive probally won't be to amazing for all in, but for slow casual things i'm sure it's fine.
Same idea here. These are all cute and combo with Mikaeus, but they don't actually help you WIN, but just help you to not lose. Ideally, you should win the instant you drop Mikaeus, or at worst, the turn after. They are fine if you're not being super cut-throat competitive, but I think the point of this thread is to make the fastest, most resilient list possible. I'm thinking along the lines of going toe-to-toe with lists like Hermit Druid Combo, Niv-Mizzet Combo, Sharuum Combo, Azusa, Arcum Dagsson, Azami, and Zur. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
That being said, those cards are great and are what I would run if I wanted to play casually.
If the stated objective is degeracy lets do it. Thats the problem with Mikues. So many lists on Cockatrice was 30 zombies, living death and he wasn't really doing much. When i started thinking about ETB effects, Triskelon, Sac engines ... holy crap this is totally degerate. Punching Niv Miz/Sharum/Azusa etc... the face, as mono black, is going to be incredibly awsome but it's also completly narrow. I don't think you can be half combo, half fun with Mikeus.
As for making him busted it's prettty clear he has the stuff and is going to romp all over casual games. As for hyper compeditive? 1v1? 4 Player FFA?
- Aformentioned Necrotic Ooze, with all the activated abilities surely a no brainer. He is essentially x2 Grim/Triskel/WorkH because im guessing somone is going to try stop you
- Contamination , Defense Grid, Infernal Darkness, im looking at you control hate cards, some way to fit these in to protect the turn you cast seems essential.
Also on the Torpor Orb note, consider adding Ulamog. His trigger is on casting, not on entering the battlefield so you still get the Vindicate and he can be a great way to close the game out. His indestructibility interacts well with the equipment we already play to protect Phage, as most of the means of killing him are single target Swords to Plowshare-like effects.
How have the enter the battlefield trigger dudes been working for you? I cut them after a really nasty experience of having to deal with something and only having a Fleshbag in hand that happened to be nullified by my own Torpor Orb. They do go well with Mimic Vat however which coincidentally is a card I just cut from my list. I've been moving away from cards that I can't optimize synergy with as seeing as I play so few creatures, I'm relying solely on opponents dork and being randomly good and randomly not is not something that makes the cut.
I've been grinding a lot of games and have since cut the Sculpting Steel and the Mimic Vat for Nev's Disk and Vesuva bringing me up to 39 land. I'm much happier with Disk than the vat as an early disk let's you slow the game down which is exactly the type of game this deck wants to be playing.
Thoughts?
Agree with one and not the other.
Mimic Vat I still struggle to justify. It seemed more like a fun card to play around with. I have had to contrasting experiecnes with this. The first time it hit the board it did nothing. People played around it. It stalled the game the board for a turn or two which was good but it just got blown up. Today it single handedly won me a game. I copied a 6/6 and chumped two Generals turn after turn, till on 8 life is Exsagunited my way back to 38. It's powerfu but random and this is not a deck that likes random. I'll cut it for Ulamog, another good suggestion.
I also added Infernal Darkness, locked out a mono Red player that was the source of most of the damage. Not looking back on that card.
As for Torpor Orb shutting down my own guys I have two. Fleshbag and Run Scarred. I don't play TO the turn before or the turn during casting Phage to avoid this problem or it getting blown away by a sweeper. Yes the potential exists for embarssment (it happened to the demon once) but i still went on to win. Fleshbag is one of the best creatures black has especially in a multiplayer enviroment. With Stronghold/Reanimate/Phyrexian Rec it can easily rack up kills. It's one of my all time favorite cards [foil in rl:) is my favoirte card] and is one of my few answers to indestructible things. Failing the orb test all my answers to shroud/hexp/indus are all Transmute-able/low CMC. Those are BSZ and Eddict.
I was so exicted I just spent the last 2 hours going through Gatherer looking at -1-1, Workhorse and all sorts, came to write a primer and somebody beat me to it! Nice work. I whipped up a list on Cockatrice but its rougher than this by far! I'm not sure how strong Mikaeus is going to be, the glaring weakness having to cast and have him live but the sheer amount of combo is sickening.
Adds
+ Necrotic Ooze surely an add, combos with everything!
+ I have Buried Alive for the slime above and more tutoring
Dont Likes
- Cauldron of Souls is pretty crap in my testing, the only thing i could find of use with it was Dross Scorpion to keep it going but its lots and lots of pieces. Finding easy to trasmute/tutor low CMC dudes you play around turn 4-5 into 6 is the best. This is pretty much all in.
Funny that Scandinavia countries also record the highest levels of happines, eductation, health, wellbeing, soical mobility and some of the lowest levels of crime in the world. I'm sure there is no connection between the two.
Maybe someone with Phage has infiltrated the discussion...yippe (it wasn't me). Phage says yes, Ninjisutu says yes, Myojin's say no, no, no, no. Those guys could be a pretty big problem. Obviously it would be worded so you couldn't use Putrid Imp etc... but as somebody pointed can you use Granuder, Ninjistu ... its harder than it looks
Right now I'm unsure about Wurmcoil Engine, Druidic Satchel and the Sculpting Steel. While all of these are stellar choices, I am not sure if they are optimal. The Wurmcoil is a wonderful defense and can help save one damage and/or gain back some life. Druidic Satchel on the other hand produces land advantage mainly though the occasional life gain can help stave off some damage from utility creatures . Sculpting Steel is just well... amazing so long as people are playing awesome artifacts. I used to run both Lethal Vapors and Spreading Plague but both of these cards are nullified by Torpor Orb. As the card is so key to the deck, I've taken out all cards that have poor synergy with it.
Satchel is an interesting choice. Let us know how it goes. How does Orb nullify Vapors and Plague? They aren't creatures?
I see a lot of lists running the mana doublers but I am really not a fan. First of all, there are so many great non-basics that black has access to and each one decreases the power of the three doublers. Secondly, unlike Cabal Coffers, doublers usually do not do anything the turn they come down which is something I really don't value in a kill-on-sight card. I might rather have less powerful faster effects like Mana Crypt which rocket you into a position where you can control the board as needed rather than struggle to catch up. Nirkana Revenant, who doubles all swamps, not only basics, is the only doubler I really like. I also prefer effects like Druidic Satchel and Wayfarer's Bauble with put land directly into play as such effects are innocuous enough not to draw the tables ire while at the same time being hard to interact with.
I understand this perspective but for me mana doublers are my finishers. You might run a critical mass of win cons with the expectation of one doing the job. With the exception of LGreaves you still have to go around the board and they can still respond to X win con. It's all about timing. The same for my doublers. Between the card draw/tutors/yagwin/exsanguinate/hellkite/sorrin 20 mana is enough for me the finish the game.
As for the utility lands plently of times I simply won't have enough tutors or ways to find CC/Urborg so running a crtical mass of Swamps for when I naturally draw CC is very important. This is doesn't sound like it could be an issue but it really is. The last two games I have naturally drew CC and only due to the lack of non basics am I able to realibly cast bombs. Mana is my win con and I make it via lands not acceleration. I cut Maze/Sac lands just for basics. It's that tight. That's why i run every single swamp fetch land that exists, for smooth mana via Crucible.
I've also decided to cut almost all of the graveyard recursion for Phage. Ultimately countering her and then bringing her back from the graveyard to the hand is simply too many hoops to jump through. Usually I find that there is only one or two windows of opportunity to cast her safely in a game and other than playing the three enablers (four if we count Withering Boon), it's better to focus on other things.
How has Decree of Pain been for you? I personally find it too slow for its effect. Sure the card draw is nice, but I want to be able to Wrath then do something useful. Ultimately the cost is too high for me, especially considering that the highest black transmute is at six CMC. I'd much rather Overwhelming Forces for Phage at eight mana. Usually you only want to wrath one player who is getting out of control and the Overwhelming Forces allows you to clear blockers for Phage to get in for a kiss.
Two things. First, there is a lot of merit in running wraths that don't effect you but I still prefer hitting everyone because I don't have lots of board interaction. I need to keep everyone in check. Second, the actual card is just silly considering that the premier finishers are often Avenger of Zendikaresque cards. Plently of decks involve mass tokens or cards that make them. Notwithstanding the potenital for mass card draw if at a minimum there is one creature per player on the board you just handed yourself a six for one. It's a card regularly tutored for in the late game. Depending on your opponents ability to reload after Decree it's a card that puts you in far in front and keeps you there. Funny aside, best QQ ever was against Edric, Spymaster of Trest he dumped his entire hand ASAP, I cycled decree during his attack
Consider adding guardian beast. He can save Torpor Orb and Sundial from being disenchanted in response to Phage. In a previous incarnation of the deck I ran Darksteel Plate to protect the beast as well as Nev's Disk and Darksteel forge to lock out the game. I ultimately cut the forge/disk combo as the forge does nothing to effect the board itself. I may add it again as Platinum Angel + Darksteel forge can cause massive headaches for decks that have little means of exiling either.
The premier artifact removal is exile. Return to Dust, Into the Core etc... Yes there are tons of cards that explicitly 'destroy target artifact ' and cards that destroy 'permanents' but if a deck builder is aware enough to run good removal Gaurdian Beast won't be a problem for them either. Sure you can get Lightning Greaves + Gaurdian Beast but this takes turns, time, your tapping out and drawing attention. You're deck probally merits running him as you have far more aggresive interaction with the board and Blightsteel/Wurmcoil with Beast in play is pretty nutty(whoops) In my deck he's an extremely good do nothing.
@Rishana
- Wow thank you for deepening my understanding of Orb, Shards is a nightmare card. It's deliciously ironic that an artifact can shut it down.
- Sure Ostone probally trumps exile and only a few decks get acess to exile but I'm still not convinced of beast in my build. I did initally test but he just hang about not doing much.
-Infernal darkness is definatly a consideration, i have one two cuts to make and ensuring that decks can't respond to Phage is really good. We all know Black has f### all ways to trick you into loosing with Phage with suprise cards from the hand. Making Azami players weep is something everyone should aim to do.
I'm not a huge fan of Necropotence in my Phage list. You can't reliably capitalize it as its a very reactive deck. Try adding the gamut of Transmute cards with corresponding CMC tutors. EDIT: How have the mana doublers been for you? I've found them too fragile and have cut them.
I'v played just less than a dozen games and i still havn't landed Necropotence even when i have had it in hand. I agree, it goes against the nature of the deck. I never wanted to play it because of the attention it would bring. The life is also pretty heavy investment as this is a long term deck. Probally getting cut soon. As for the doublers im going to ramble for a mintue here. a)run them/love them b)its all about timing c)eggs in one basket.
a)Without the mana doublers games would be infinitly harder to finish. Generally the game goes Draw Go - Control Things - Doubler - Finisher. I think you need to run at least Lens/Gaunlet, these are the cheapest to drop. Even though Gauntlet of Power gives other basic swamps double it's still first pick over Caged Sun. In a tight spot 1-2 mana IS the difference between winning, loosing and being to control the game or letting it spiral out of control. For exmaple: often my turn 6 is GoP - pass - holding Withering Boon, Imp's Mishchief or going big would be Cabal Coffers makes big mana -> play GoP -> tap some more swamps 3 or 4 open -> transmute -> Damnation. GoP essentially leaves 2 mana open the turn you could cast Caged Sun.
b)Playing the doubler is all about timing. In "drawgo" that translates to lots of time. As opposed to "monogreen -> Mana Reflection-> hope I draw fat" I hold everything back. I never drop a turn 1Sol Ring because of the attention it draws and the Oblivion Stone that is going to blow it up. When I play my doubler i'm always at 6+ lands with some a plan. I drop Gauntlet of Power, tap my spare land/s and try to drop Torpor Orb, Damnation, Demonic Tutor or keep removal up OR i'm holding fat like Karn Liberated, Exsanguinate and wait till the next turn. I don't play it and hope for the best. When you suddenly jump from 8 to 16 mana you should have a plan to deal with the heat or try to get some advantage out of it ASAP. BUT if they blow it up it isn't all bad because that is one less piece of artifact removal to use on things that stop Phage killing you.
c)Cabal Coffers is the doubler every monoblack looks to. I don't claim to have a superior Phage list but one of my superior choices is Crucible of World's. Lots of lists i checked don't run it. People go all out to destroy CC. Spreading the risk around with big shiny artifacts and scary at least clears the way for CC. If you cut Doublers your're putting all of your eggs in one basket. Hence for me Magus of the Coffers + Gauntlet of Power (Brainspoil ), Cabal Coffers, Extraplanar Lens (Dimir Machinations). I don't even like Magnus but somebody once use 3 Wraths of God effects over 3 turns just to go 1for1 aginst him. He has my respect now.
@davidboan, how does Endless Whispers work out for you? It seems like there isn't much use besides Phage tricks (which is a good reason) but the potential for enemies to use things giant ETB fattys like Avenger of Zendikar outweighs it's uses? And I'd have to run Thrull Wizard? I really don't like that idea.Could you explain how you use it, the timing etc? It would like to try it. It could also be really good with Fleshbag Marauder
@Phiddlesticks, i considered Grotto. Lord does not have enough targets for zombies. It might be a potential replacement for Volrath's Stronghold because of multiple games it has lead to awkward Legendary mana screws. But probally not.
@Beralt, it's good no doubt good but in this deck i found it mostly to be a do nothing. I always tried to get it out but it was killed or just died without having to much benift. Exile artifact laughs at him. After many games I find the best route for for phage is timing, getting a feel for my oppoenents deck or multiple artifacts at once.
thank you to those people kind enough to help me build this
MTG isn't filled with bad people the opposite. I've never met a mean spirited person in MTG so to davidboan and Rishana thank you.
I'm at a different place in life now! When the light at the end of the tunnel of MTG was seriously considering buying an all foil phage deck i realised it would never end. There is no end. No amount of card will ever be enough. There will always be more. They want your money nothing more. Thanks for the brews and my favoirte deck while playing MTG!
but ill i can say is do youselves a favour and stop playing! What would you be doing if you werent otherwise playing a made up game? If the answer is well i dont know...to me nuclear bombs went off in my head when i thought that thought...mtg adds nothing to life, its a distraction
Increasing Ambition is insane. Running it in monoblack Phage. I want to see it every game. Yes it is slow but 3 for 1? If you can control the board you can assemble virtually any combo out of it. If you can't find a route to victory finding any 3 cards you're doing it wrong. It might only be casual fodder but its 10/10 in my book.
I'd like to talk about Transmute. Demonic, Vamp even Diabolic don't need explaining. Run them. Transmute is very overlooked. Trasmute is nuts. Someone said less lofty? Hardly. Transmute is the glue in all of my decks that are B or B/x.
[CARD]
Dimir House Gaurd[/CARD] - sac engine, recurable Diabolic Tutor, Damnation, Grave Pact, Nevinyrral's Disk, Mutilate
Other things i find, Promise of Power, Moonlight Bargin, Magnus of the Coffers, Necropotence more and more. Look at the wealth of staples you find with transmute...its nuts. I just listed the Monoblack choices you have 4 Colours to Transmute into if you want. The curve of Transmute is mostly smooth. Turn 3 Dimir Turn 4 Damnation/Disk/Grave Pact, Turn 3 Shred Memory Turn 4 Demonic Tutor with counter magic/removal open. Turn 5 Transmute with countermagic/removal up. I feel transmute is the domain of control/combo. You can't be B/x aggro just tutor all the time. Transmute equates to turns+life for control+advantage. It's interested in the end game. Turn 3 Transmute ---take X damage Turn 4 Damnation etc...If you're thinking of MonoB control i'd run every MonoB Transmute card (execpt the 6mana, not enough drops i feel, but i'm probally overlooking something) Cabal Coffers really sets up fat plays with the tutoring you can do.
As for other Tutors...Diabolic Intent needs creatures, really needs them. If you're not running Bloodghast, Gravecrawler etc... DONT run it, otherwise it reads, "pay 6 mana, sac a creature, get a card (just using an average curve of 4)" and you're probally sacing something that isn't ideal to sac Insidous Dreams is niche. Use in a dump into yard (Damia, Sage of Stone is nuts), but you want to put an effect that lets you draw those cards ASAP. Cruel Tutor, as much coin as Vamp tutor for a far worse tutor. Bad for your budget but a decent tutor. Rune-Scared Demon, i thought he would be crap but he's pretty decent for two reasons. A)You always have Reanimate as Black B)Although he is slow for a tutor he provides a big evasive body that can snipe Plansewalkers/Chump block till the next turn so you can use your Tutored card.
Check out this Primer, The Comprehensive Guide to Black Tutors
If a game is at a stage where 15+ mana is getting made unchecked it should end. If it gets to this point and you’re not equiped with enough answers/prevention they should roll a big wave.
If i play a 1/1, then a 2/2 then a 3/3 and beat face from 40 to 0 over the course of 5-10 turns, whatever, win, it is legit. It is no less legit if somebody plays Swamp, expedition map -> cabal coffers, swamp, swamp, swamp = kill you turn 10 after controlling the board. If nobody can recognise the plan, rally some people or resoucres to deal with it then tough. Thats the way it goes.
In answering the question yes i would play G.Wave for 12 and Exsaguinte for 13. They still win/swing the game.
Buried Alive probally won't be to amazing for all in, but for slow casual things i'm sure it's fine.
If the stated objective is degeracy lets do it. Thats the problem with Mikues. So many lists on Cockatrice was 30 zombies, living death and he wasn't really doing much. When i started thinking about ETB effects, Triskelon, Sac engines ... holy crap this is totally degerate. Punching Niv Miz/Sharum/Azusa etc... the face, as mono black, is going to be incredibly awsome but it's also completly narrow. I don't think you can be half combo, half fun with Mikeus.
As for making him busted it's prettty clear he has the stuff and is going to romp all over casual games. As for hyper compeditive? 1v1? 4 Player FFA?
- Aformentioned Necrotic Ooze, with all the activated abilities surely a no brainer. He is essentially x2 Grim/Triskel/WorkH because im guessing somone is going to try stop you
- Contamination , Defense Grid, Infernal Darkness, im looking at you control hate cards, some way to fit these in to protect the turn you cast seems essential.
Agree with one and not the other.
Mimic Vat I still struggle to justify. It seemed more like a fun card to play around with. I have had to contrasting experiecnes with this. The first time it hit the board it did nothing. People played around it. It stalled the game the board for a turn or two which was good but it just got blown up. Today it single handedly won me a game. I copied a 6/6 and chumped two Generals turn after turn, till on 8 life is Exsagunited my way back to 38. It's powerfu but random and this is not a deck that likes random. I'll cut it for Ulamog, another good suggestion.
I also added Infernal Darkness, locked out a mono Red player that was the source of most of the damage. Not looking back on that card.
As for Torpor Orb shutting down my own guys I have two. Fleshbag and Run Scarred. I don't play TO the turn before or the turn during casting Phage to avoid this problem or it getting blown away by a sweeper. Yes the potential exists for embarssment (it happened to the demon once) but i still went on to win. Fleshbag is one of the best creatures black has especially in a multiplayer enviroment. With Stronghold/Reanimate/Phyrexian Rec it can easily rack up kills. It's one of my all time favorite cards [foil in rl:) is my favoirte card] and is one of my few answers to indestructible things. Failing the orb test all my answers to shroud/hexp/indus are all Transmute-able/low CMC. Those are BSZ and Eddict.
Summary: keeping Bag, cutting Vat
Adds
+ Necrotic Ooze surely an add, combos with everything!
+ I have Buried Alive for the slime above and more tutoring
Maybies
-Soul Snuffers, for a mass sac
- Carnifex Demon, same idea
Dont Likes
- Cauldron of Souls is pretty crap in my testing, the only thing i could find of use with it was Dross Scorpion to keep it going but its lots and lots of pieces. Finding easy to trasmute/tutor low CMC dudes you play around turn 4-5 into 6 is the best. This is pretty much all in.
Satchel is an interesting choice. Let us know how it goes. How does Orb nullify Vapors and Plague? They aren't creatures?
I understand this perspective but for me mana doublers are my finishers. You might run a critical mass of win cons with the expectation of one doing the job. With the exception of LGreaves you still have to go around the board and they can still respond to X win con. It's all about timing. The same for my doublers. Between the card draw/tutors/yagwin/exsanguinate/hellkite/sorrin 20 mana is enough for me the finish the game.
As for the utility lands plently of times I simply won't have enough tutors or ways to find CC/Urborg so running a crtical mass of Swamps for when I naturally draw CC is very important. This is doesn't sound like it could be an issue but it really is. The last two games I have naturally drew CC and only due to the lack of non basics am I able to realibly cast bombs. Mana is my win con and I make it via lands not acceleration. I cut Maze/Sac lands just for basics. It's that tight. That's why i run every single swamp fetch land that exists, for smooth mana via Crucible.
Agree.
Two things. First, there is a lot of merit in running wraths that don't effect you but I still prefer hitting everyone because I don't have lots of board interaction. I need to keep everyone in check. Second, the actual card is just silly considering that the premier finishers are often Avenger of Zendikaresque cards. Plently of decks involve mass tokens or cards that make them. Notwithstanding the potenital for mass card draw if at a minimum there is one creature per player on the board you just handed yourself a six for one. It's a card regularly tutored for in the late game. Depending on your opponents ability to reload after Decree it's a card that puts you in far in front and keeps you there. Funny aside, best QQ ever was against Edric, Spymaster of Trest he dumped his entire hand ASAP, I cycled decree during his attack
The premier artifact removal is exile. Return to Dust, Into the Core etc... Yes there are tons of cards that explicitly 'destroy target artifact ' and cards that destroy 'permanents' but if a deck builder is aware enough to run good removal Gaurdian Beast won't be a problem for them either. Sure you can get Lightning Greaves + Gaurdian Beast but this takes turns, time, your tapping out and drawing attention. You're deck probally merits running him as you have far more aggresive interaction with the board and
Blightsteel/Wurmcoil with Beast in play is pretty nutty(whoops) In my deck he's an extremely good do nothing.@Rishana
- Wow thank you for deepening my understanding of Orb, Shards is a nightmare card. It's deliciously ironic that an artifact can shut it down.
- Sure Ostone probally trumps exile and only a few decks get acess to exile but I'm still not convinced of beast in my build. I did initally test but he just hang about not doing much.
-Infernal darkness is definatly a consideration, i have one two cuts to make and ensuring that decks can't respond to Phage is really good. We all know Black has f### all ways to trick you into loosing with Phage with suprise cards from the hand. Making Azami players weep is something everyone should aim to do.
I'v played just less than a dozen games and i still havn't landed Necropotence even when i have had it in hand. I agree, it goes against the nature of the deck. I never wanted to play it because of the attention it would bring. The life is also pretty heavy investment as this is a long term deck. Probally getting cut soon. As for the doublers im going to ramble for a mintue here. a)run them/love them b)its all about timing c)eggs in one basket.
a)Without the mana doublers games would be infinitly harder to finish. Generally the game goes Draw Go - Control Things - Doubler - Finisher. I think you need to run at least Lens/Gaunlet, these are the cheapest to drop. Even though Gauntlet of Power gives other basic swamps double it's still first pick over Caged Sun. In a tight spot 1-2 mana IS the difference between winning, loosing and being to control the game or letting it spiral out of control. For exmaple: often my turn 6 is GoP - pass - holding Withering Boon, Imp's Mishchief or going big would be Cabal Coffers makes big mana -> play GoP -> tap some more swamps 3 or 4 open -> transmute -> Damnation. GoP essentially leaves 2 mana open the turn you could cast Caged Sun.
b)Playing the doubler is all about timing. In "drawgo" that translates to lots of time. As opposed to "monogreen -> Mana Reflection-> hope I draw fat" I hold everything back. I never drop a turn 1Sol Ring because of the attention it draws and the Oblivion Stone that is going to blow it up. When I play my doubler i'm always at 6+ lands with some a plan. I drop Gauntlet of Power, tap my spare land/s and try to drop Torpor Orb, Damnation, Demonic Tutor or keep removal up OR i'm holding fat like Karn Liberated, Exsanguinate and wait till the next turn. I don't play it and hope for the best. When you suddenly jump from 8 to 16 mana you should have a plan to deal with the heat or try to get some advantage out of it ASAP. BUT if they blow it up it isn't all bad because that is one less piece of artifact removal to use on things that stop Phage killing you.
c)Cabal Coffers is the doubler every monoblack looks to. I don't claim to have a superior Phage list but one of my superior choices is Crucible of World's. Lots of lists i checked don't run it. People go all out to destroy CC. Spreading the risk around with big shiny artifacts and scary at least clears the way for CC. If you cut Doublers your're putting all of your eggs in one basket. Hence for me Magus of the Coffers + Gauntlet of Power (Brainspoil ), Cabal Coffers, Extraplanar Lens (Dimir Machinations). I don't even like Magnus but somebody once use 3 Wraths of God effects over 3 turns just to go 1for1 aginst him. He has my respect now.
@davidboan, how does Endless Whispers work out for you? It seems like there isn't much use besides Phage tricks (which is a good reason) but the potential for enemies to use things giant ETB fattys like Avenger of Zendikar outweighs it's uses? And I'd have to run Thrull Wizard? I really don't like that idea.Could you explain how you use it, the timing etc? It would like to try it. It could also be really good with Fleshbag Marauder
@Phiddlesticks, i considered Grotto. Lord does not have enough targets for zombies. It might be a potential replacement for Volrath's Stronghold because of multiple games it has lead to awkward Legendary mana screws. But probally not.
@Beralt, it's good no doubt good but in this deck i found it mostly to be a do nothing. I always tried to get it out but it was killed or just died without having to much benift. Exile artifact laughs at him. After many games I find the best route for for phage is timing, getting a feel for my oppoenents deck or multiple artifacts at once.
MTG isn't filled with bad people the opposite. I've never met a mean spirited person in MTG so to davidboan and Rishana thank you.
I'm at a different place in life now! When the light at the end of the tunnel of MTG was seriously considering buying an all foil phage deck i realised it would never end. There is no end. No amount of card will ever be enough. There will always be more. They want your money nothing more. Thanks for the brews and my favoirte deck while playing MTG!
but ill i can say is do youselves a favour and stop playing! What would you be doing if you werent otherwise playing a made up game? If the answer is well i dont know...to me nuclear bombs went off in my head when i thought that thought...mtg adds nothing to life, its a distraction
I'd like to talk about Transmute. Demonic, Vamp even Diabolic don't need explaining. Run them. Transmute is very overlooked. Trasmute is nuts. Someone said less lofty? Hardly. Transmute is the glue in all of my decks that are B or B/x.
[CARD]
Dimir House Gaurd[/CARD] - sac engine, recurable
Diabolic Tutor, Damnation, Grave Pact, Nevinyrral's Disk, Mutilate
Shred Memory - apart from destroying Eldrazi, reanimator, nuts tutor!
Diabolic Tutor, Diabolic Intent, Black Sun's Zenith, Lightning Greaves, Scroll Rack Diabolic Eddict, Doom Blade, Go for the Throat, Into the Roil for indestrutible etc (this has saved me so many times, eddict to)
Dimir Machinations, just for staight up transmute mostly.
Crucbile of Worlds, Oblivion Stone, Fleshbag Marauder
Other things i find, Promise of Power, Moonlight Bargin, Magnus of the Coffers, Necropotence more and more. Look at the wealth of staples you find with transmute...its nuts. I just listed the Monoblack choices you have 4 Colours to Transmute into if you want. The curve of Transmute is mostly smooth. Turn 3 Dimir Turn 4 Damnation/Disk/Grave Pact, Turn 3 Shred Memory Turn 4 Demonic Tutor with counter magic/removal open. Turn 5 Transmute with countermagic/removal up. I feel transmute is the domain of control/combo. You can't be B/x aggro just tutor all the time. Transmute equates to turns+life for control+advantage. It's interested in the end game. Turn 3 Transmute ---take X damage Turn 4 Damnation etc...If you're thinking of MonoB control i'd run every MonoB Transmute card (execpt the 6mana, not enough drops i feel, but i'm probally overlooking something) Cabal Coffers really sets up fat plays with the tutoring you can do.
As for other Tutors...Diabolic Intent needs creatures, really needs them. If you're not running Bloodghast, Gravecrawler etc... DONT run it, otherwise it reads, "pay 6 mana, sac a creature, get a card (just using an average curve of 4)" and you're probally sacing something that isn't ideal to sac
Insidous Dreams is niche. Use in a dump into yard (Damia, Sage of Stone is nuts), but you want to put an effect that lets you draw those cards ASAP.
Cruel Tutor, as much coin as Vamp tutor for a far worse tutor. Bad for your budget but a decent tutor.
Rune-Scared Demon, i thought he would be crap but he's pretty decent for two reasons. A)You always have Reanimate as Black B)Although he is slow for a tutor he provides a big evasive body that can snipe Plansewalkers/Chump block till the next turn so you can use your Tutored card.
Check out this Primer, The Comprehensive Guide to Black Tutors
- Grindstone self
-Golgari Thug, Stinkweed Imp
If it works vs Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur then it does for for Null P?
Argh...no jump scares...thats the worst!