Someone just cheated in the last feature match and neither the commentators or the players caught it.
I don't remember the match up but the red player cast flames of the firebrand and had it deal 1 damage to his opponents liliana and 2 damage to the player.
Those pesky x2's and x1's shouldnt be around turn 6, and if they are they are playing a mass token deck and taking out one creature does nothing, or undying creatures killing helps them. The 2 life gained off the ability is about the only reason to use it, and then its usually better to peg them in the face with it rather then bother with their creatures.
10 damage, while never a bad thing, for 6 mana and 3 loyalty counters is. by turn 6 (this is assuming you had him opening hand, or drew him, with 6 land drops leaving you only 5 other cards to play,) is about the only time you are going to be achieving maximum Damage:mana. Every point of damage you put into your opponent weakens this ability further and further. If you are dropping him turn 8/9/or 10 and -3ing i have to ask, why is your opponent still at a life total that requires this? If your answer isn't lifegain or absolute terrible draws then I have to question your skills as a mage.
Call me bad, call me stupid, call me whatever you want, but if you guys want MBC to become a tournament worthy deck bad cards like Sorin have to go. Sorin has been around for 2 years now and he still hasn't managed to make it into any real tournament deck. So why do you think he will now?
Just wanted to make some statements about a few of these.
His +2 is card advantage, or an answer to a resolved planeswalker, MBC has problems with both of these, it's the same reason why staff of nin is good in this type of deck, repeated removal = card advantage, there's really no arguing that. Sorin, like Staff of nin, is also hard to remove for a lot of decks, if they don't counter him (should be duressing away their mana leaks anyway) then you're quickly going to get ahead, especially if you wiped the board with a mutilate the turn before. Outside of o-ring or beast within, he's actually extremely hard for aggro decks to remove, because you have the tools to protect him, and he starts at a fat 6 loyalty.
His -3, while good in certain situations, is pretty bad, I've also never (literally never) dropped him into play and immediately -3'd. But then again, I'm not playing sorin's vengeance. To add on to that, this is Mono Black Control, why exactly are you damaging your opponent? Especially before turn 6? If you're not taking cards away from their hand, gaining life with pristine talisman, defending your own life total with removal/nighthawk, or gaining card advantage with sign in blood, then what are you doing? Attacking them with gravecrawlers? I think you're playing a different deck, and Sorin Markov does not belong in it.
And the last point, Sorin Markov has actually appeared in a couple SCG top 8 list, Not so much recently, but many of the blue black control decks (back when inquisition of kozilek was around) ran him as a 1 of, and a few grixis control list have as well (Believe Pat Chapin has even played him as 1 of before)
At the end of the day, he's a solid one of, and you should really give him a shot, Going pristine talisman turn 3, mutilate turn 4, and sorin turn 5, is absolutely devastating to most non blue aggro decks, once you have control, a win con is a win con, this one just happens to be harder to remove than most, and can get rid of your opponents win cons, buying you time, time = money, friend.
Big red also happens to play tezzeret's gambit, does that mean everyone using gambit in their list should go to the UR control thread? I'm also siding dismember, guess I should make a big red grixis thread.
If I use oblivion ring and use no plains and just sphere of the suns for a white source, am I allowed to post my list in this thread?
With solemn simulacrum getting reprinted for mana fixing, and already playing sphere of the suns, and red not having efficient ways of dealing with enchantments and planeswalkers, it seems like a great idea to at least play one plains and some oblivion rings, the only thing it hurts is koths ult, and tec edges already do that and people are just fine anyway.
A few posters have been splashing colors in this deck for many pages now, beast within was a popular choice if I recall.
If variants of this deck ever do well after the release of oblivion ring, I believe they will be splashing another color, and it will most likely be white for oblivion ring.
I've been using 2 metamorphs main and it's testing very well. I also use 4 Inferno Titan and 2 Wurmcoil Engine for other creatures. If splinter twin is giving you issues I don't recommend urabrask, he's a bit slow in most of the hands they can get, but sideboarded dismembers and combust do well, and dismember helps tremendously against obliterator, and wurmcoil is great in the br vamps matches.
I've been testing chandra nalaar and red sun zenith as one ofs, both are fine but I could see them being better off as other cards, maybe adding some batterskulls of my own, since we have the mana to leave bounce mana up for it pretty easily, while casting other threats.
What kind of meta do you play in where karn is a meta call? just curious. lots of mono green eldrazi or something?(for ulamog/emrakul) I'm just completely lost at that statement.
Also 2 slagstorm in the main is great, it's never dead, it's good in the aggro match ups and against caw blade. Valakut not so much but that match up is already a nightmare, so not much you can do there but hope for a good draw and a bad-slow draw from them.
I think you should try 2 Spellskites in that Sideboard slot. It's good protection from Artifact hate in games 2 and 3.
Some number of dismembers in the flex slots and in place of a few combust wouldn't hurt either, combust is really only good against one deck, and dismember is also very good against that deck along with a ton of others as well, I side 4 of them and find myself bringing them in games 2 and 3 an awful lot. Although spellskite is a very good option as well.
I've been considering the creature package of 4 Inferno Titan, 2 Wurmcoil Engine, and 2 Phyrexian Metamorph, currently I'm only running 4 Inferno Titan and 2 Urabrask, and I feel slightly threat light at times, anyone have any opinions on that?
I use both, how do you guys not have room for treespeaker and sylvan? Currently testing 4 treespeaker (staple imo) and 3 sylvan, although 2 is fine. I also don't see the need for 4 copperhorn, I use 3 and 4 green sun and 4 lead the stampede, so I see him an awful lot, 2 would probably even be acceptable.
What's the opinion on Garruk? Also, what's the optimal land count?
I like garruk as a 2 of, he comes down on turn 3 easily, untaps mana, plays more dudes, then on turn 4 without any removal you can sometimes use his -4 for game, plus he's great against sweepers, making 3/3 beast every turn.
I use 19 forest and 2 sylvan ranger, works pretty well.
I used to run a 2/2 split, although 2/3 is defensible, in favor of chosen, but I found them very underwhelming, casting the 2/3 creature any point in the game is usually a waste of mana, and while having 3 toughness against some decks is pretty beefy, it's lost some of it's luster in the current meta game. I'd much rather cast a sylvan ranger/fauna shaman or archdruid on turn 2. And as for the planeswalker itself, it really shines against red, because of the lifegain, but to get anything relevant you already need to have a board presence. It's a shame they had to make her loyalty so low, because after you gain 4-6 life or search a chosen, the red player can take care of her relatively easy, using bolt or searing blaze the chosen or archdruid/ezuri/fauna and doing 3 to nissa.
Also, a lot of builds aren't running monument anymore(some still do, it's a fine card) which in those types of builds, nissa is a very good choice, other builds are instead running a lead the stampede/green sun zenith package, and nissa doesn't work well with either of those.
I love MBC and all, (really excited for this set, yay for geth's verdict and despise) but lets not forget wizards printed a card that hoses almost all MBC strategies just IN CASE MBC ever got good, Leyline of Sanctity
Wish they would have printed a green card that took phyrexian mana that could destroy enchantments, as black has no reliable ways of dealing with the them, outside of ratchet bomb, which is just clunky and slow.
After rotation happens however (assuming no reprint of the leylines) then it's a whole different story, as black has some amazing tools, they even get a board sweeper that's not conditional or X related.
Sigarda, Host of Herons
I don't remember the match up but the red player cast flames of the firebrand and had it deal 1 damage to his opponents liliana and 2 damage to the player.
Found it http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/373060921
little after 5 hours 52 minutes.
Yeva is 50 cents, what?
Just wanted to make some statements about a few of these.
His +2 is card advantage, or an answer to a resolved planeswalker, MBC has problems with both of these, it's the same reason why staff of nin is good in this type of deck, repeated removal = card advantage, there's really no arguing that. Sorin, like Staff of nin, is also hard to remove for a lot of decks, if they don't counter him (should be duressing away their mana leaks anyway) then you're quickly going to get ahead, especially if you wiped the board with a mutilate the turn before. Outside of o-ring or beast within, he's actually extremely hard for aggro decks to remove, because you have the tools to protect him, and he starts at a fat 6 loyalty.
His -3, while good in certain situations, is pretty bad, I've also never (literally never) dropped him into play and immediately -3'd. But then again, I'm not playing sorin's vengeance. To add on to that, this is Mono Black Control, why exactly are you damaging your opponent? Especially before turn 6? If you're not taking cards away from their hand, gaining life with pristine talisman, defending your own life total with removal/nighthawk, or gaining card advantage with sign in blood, then what are you doing? Attacking them with gravecrawlers? I think you're playing a different deck, and Sorin Markov does not belong in it.
And the last point, Sorin Markov has actually appeared in a couple SCG top 8 list, Not so much recently, but many of the blue black control decks (back when inquisition of kozilek was around) ran him as a 1 of, and a few grixis control list have as well (Believe Pat Chapin has even played him as 1 of before)
At the end of the day, he's a solid one of, and you should really give him a shot, Going pristine talisman turn 3, mutilate turn 4, and sorin turn 5, is absolutely devastating to most non blue aggro decks, once you have control, a win con is a win con, this one just happens to be harder to remove than most, and can get rid of your opponents win cons, buying you time, time = money, friend.
If I use oblivion ring and use no plains and just sphere of the suns for a white source, am I allowed to post my list in this thread?
With solemn simulacrum getting reprinted for mana fixing, and already playing sphere of the suns, and red not having efficient ways of dealing with enchantments and planeswalkers, it seems like a great idea to at least play one plains and some oblivion rings, the only thing it hurts is koths ult, and tec edges already do that and people are just fine anyway.
A few posters have been splashing colors in this deck for many pages now, beast within was a popular choice if I recall.
If variants of this deck ever do well after the release of oblivion ring, I believe they will be splashing another color, and it will most likely be white for oblivion ring.
I've been testing chandra nalaar and red sun zenith as one ofs, both are fine but I could see them being better off as other cards, maybe adding some batterskulls of my own, since we have the mana to leave bounce mana up for it pretty easily, while casting other threats.
What kind of meta do you play in where karn is a meta call? just curious. lots of mono green eldrazi or something?(for ulamog/emrakul) I'm just completely lost at that statement.
Also 2 slagstorm in the main is great, it's never dead, it's good in the aggro match ups and against caw blade. Valakut not so much but that match up is already a nightmare, so not much you can do there but hope for a good draw and a bad-slow draw from them.
Some number of dismembers in the flex slots and in place of a few combust wouldn't hurt either, combust is really only good against one deck, and dismember is also very good against that deck along with a ton of others as well, I side 4 of them and find myself bringing them in games 2 and 3 an awful lot. Although spellskite is a very good option as well.
I've been considering the creature package of 4 Inferno Titan, 2 Wurmcoil Engine, and 2 Phyrexian Metamorph, currently I'm only running 4 Inferno Titan and 2 Urabrask, and I feel slightly threat light at times, anyone have any opinions on that?
Looks like we're gonna need the Power Rangers for this one!
I like garruk as a 2 of, he comes down on turn 3 easily, untaps mana, plays more dudes, then on turn 4 without any removal you can sometimes use his -4 for game, plus he's great against sweepers, making 3/3 beast every turn.
I use 19 forest and 2 sylvan ranger, works pretty well.
I used to run a 2/2 split, although 2/3 is defensible, in favor of chosen, but I found them very underwhelming, casting the 2/3 creature any point in the game is usually a waste of mana, and while having 3 toughness against some decks is pretty beefy, it's lost some of it's luster in the current meta game. I'd much rather cast a sylvan ranger/fauna shaman or archdruid on turn 2. And as for the planeswalker itself, it really shines against red, because of the lifegain, but to get anything relevant you already need to have a board presence. It's a shame they had to make her loyalty so low, because after you gain 4-6 life or search a chosen, the red player can take care of her relatively easy, using bolt or searing blaze the chosen or archdruid/ezuri/fauna and doing 3 to nissa.
Also, a lot of builds aren't running monument anymore(some still do, it's a fine card) which in those types of builds, nissa is a very good choice, other builds are instead running a lead the stampede/green sun zenith package, and nissa doesn't work well with either of those.
Wish they would have printed a green card that took phyrexian mana that could destroy enchantments, as black has no reliable ways of dealing with the them, outside of ratchet bomb, which is just clunky and slow.
After rotation happens however (assuming no reprint of the leylines) then it's a whole different story, as black has some amazing tools, they even get a board sweeper that's not conditional or X related.
Brutal if you minus the memoricide and add something relevant that will win you the game, like Persecutor or Canceler.
This card will see play in standard sideboards for sure, if not a few MB if mono black gets the right tools to be a force.