I thought about Nihil stone myself tonight. My question is this. Is this deck nothing without megrim? Is there anything that can be as effective as megrim when it rotates out very soon?
I just saw the no discussion rule of SOM. My bad.
We'll still have caress. I think when Megrim rotates out the deck will move more towards a BR control variant with a 4x copy of tutelage and some of the various lifegain kill spells that black sports.
This is pretty close to the deck I have been doing well with, except I took out the Caches for BSAs and the deck rapes my opponents now. The only deck I have lost to in a couple FNMs now is a BR discard deck that maindecks Black Knights. Just been unlucky not to be able to get rid of him and he's pinged me down in some long games where the matches went to the third game and I just couldn't draw an answer in time.
But other than that, I've beaten Jund, PWs, UW control, Naya Allies, Vamps and pretty much everything else.
It's a great deck and if it reaches the late game, pretty much unbeatable.
Unfortunately, I would attribute a good chunk of that success to the $200 that is BSA and the relative scarcity of appropriate removal in the modern meta.
BSA can make almost any deck run at least pretty well.
The whole deck just fell short and performed miserably particularly against U/W control. My opponents completely negated Luminarch Ascension either through Oblivion Ring or by playing a DoJ then swinging with Gideon Jura. I just kept dropping my own O-rings then on their next turn, they'd drop another planeswalker. That's the same thing that Earthquakes did was just kill planeswalkers that they'd immediately replace. This deck is surprisingly effective against allies but, only if you have several, early turn removal spells and they dump their hand quickly to pump their guys which, you then remove and later eat up the little ones with Rage Nimbus. EVERYBODY keys in on Vent Sentinel who never lasted more than a turn. The idea is fun but, hard to really make competitive. The games run really long with matches often resulting in a draw since time expires. I would love to know how to fix this as I like playing "rogue" decks. It might be better as a R/G build that powers out fatties and gigantic Banefires or something by using Overgrown Battlement. As I think about it, how would Indestructibility work? It would be great against Naya or any other aggro deck that didn't run O-rings or Maelstrom Pulse and would keep Gideon Jura at bay. Thoughts?
I play GW Eldrazi Ramp with Awakening Zone and other tokens.
After about 50 matches against Jund players with boosters on the line about 50% of them (no joke) will try to Maelstrom Pulse a drone token at least once during the match.
Feeds into my thesis that playing Jund gives you pimples and makes you fat and lazy.
This is a list that i've been running with good success at FNM's recently. It's mono green eldrazi ramp and it's been particularly amazing against UW tapout or UWR planeswalker control variants(I literally haven't lost a game for those matchups). It's also pretty good against naya, decent against mythic(unless they get a super insane start) and even at least 50/50 against jund(basically it's worked well excepting super fast starts or double/triple Blightning blowouts). I'm actually planning on taking the list to the Japanese Nationals soon, it's biggest weaknesses are mono red and polymorph/trap versions of eldrazi.
The basic plan is simple, 1st turn land + Map/Stirrings, 2nd turn land + Explore/Growth, 3rd turn land + Garruk/Giant, 4th turn land and start playing huge monsters.
23 lands might seem light(especially since the Eye doesn't really count) but with Stirrings/Map and the rest of the ramp it's always been plenty.
Ondu Giant has always been amazing it's ramp plus a 2/4 body(which can block and kill BBE, RoE, etc. etc. without dying). Pelakka Wurm is there as the alternate beatdown condition and it's 7 life gain often saves you from fast aggro decks(rdw/naya allies).
The sideboard is Fog vrs fast aggro, Thornling(mainly against jund), Mold Shambler(against planeswalkers, manlands etc.) and Windstorm against control with angel/sphinx and against vampires(nothing better than windstorming when they have a triggered Nocturnus).
It's Ultimate Ramp plays out as 1st turn forest + Stirrings, 2nd turn Temple + Explore + Forest + Stirrings, 3rd turn Temple + Garruk(and untap) + Explore + Eye, 4th turn Temple, tap 3 temples and 2 forests for 8 mana, untap 2 temples for another 4 mana + Eye of Ugin giving you 14 mana for eldrazi spells and letting you cast any eldrazi but Emrakul 4th turn and Emrakul on 5th turn.
Basically it's a pretty solid deck and a lot of fun. If people have suggestions i'd be happy to hear them since i'm serious about taking this to the nats tournament.
I've had success with vines of the vastwood vs Poly. You may try that SB if it's in your meta.
im not sure of the best way of hard casting the eldrazi but this is an decklist that a friend of mine crushed me with the other night (maybe because I didnt know what was happening but owel)
it uses tutors and draw to get the combo peices: training grounds+kalani gem+filigree sages to go infinite mana and draw your deck bar 2-3 with mind spring and hard cast emrakul+ulamog and win. it gets the artifacts easily but strungles to find the training grounds some times
Neat idea but with infinite mana why wouldn't you just cast Banefire?
I've been using Hellcarver Demon with some success. Playing B/G token generators and then dropping a demon in turn 5. I usually hit one of the big Eldrazi on my first 6 cards. And then its game over.
They don't pulse/terminate/judgment/path/ring/etc your Eldrazi the next turn leaving you with a Demon and no permanents?
I find my Eldrazi often get removed...but their "When you cast" benefits tend to give me the advantage.
I would like to share some of my thoughts along with some of my friends discussion on fixing this concept of hard casting Eldrazi.
I search through this form about six weeks ago. I found a deck I liked the concept on, and built it. Play tested the deck at three FNM's and then took it this weekend to Gameday at the local magic event. I altered it slightly for my local meta and gave it a run.
Please leave constructive comments as this deck continues to evolve.
I took your deck for a 50 game testdrive on MTGO yesterday and today in 2 player booster tournaments. I have to say, the deck is surprisingly consistent. I can't believe I'm using the word "Consistent" in reference to hardcasting Eldrazi.
The deck went 36 and 14. Here's some breakdowns against popular decks:
Against Jund (My Garruk is bigger than your Garruk): 14-8.
Heh. You would be shocked and dismayed how many Jund players try to Maelstrom Pulse Eldrazi Drones. Makes me giggle every time. Feeds into my thesis that playing Jund in the current meta makes you fat and lazy.
The matchup is pretty favorable. They tend to assume we're Allies or something and the early walls do well. Don't be afraid to sac them to Leech if you have backup.
Discard Eldrazi to Blightning for a minimal loss of card advantage unless you're planning on casting in the next turn or two.
Sideboarding in all four Acidic slimes makes this matchup a snap. I take out DoJs. Kill all their sources of black and you more or less win.
UG Polymorph (Ready, Set, Emrakul!) 3-2.
It's a race to Eldrazi! His Polymorph is 4 mana and an assured hit. Your polymorph is 6 mana and only searches your top 7 cards. He has Jace 2.0 to bounce your Eldrazi. You have Garruk and a slower, more defensive clock.
I hate this matchup.
Anyway, game 1 you pray you manage to go off without him doing so first or without him dropping a jace 2.0.
Game 2 you side in all your PtEs and I also have 4 Vines in my side for Poly and other anti-Eldrazi control. Then you play chicken with the poly player all while waiting for an end-of-turn summoning trap. Vines or path his polys. Kill 4 of them and you win!
RDW, BDW and AIR (Declaring Blockers!): 7-3
These decks are fast...but all your early spells are walls and for some nutty reason none of these decks pack Earthquake either in their MD or SB. They'd almost always take me down to about 4-8 before the deck went off. Survival Cache is a surprising all-star in this situation. The matchup will generally favor you unless they get a god hand. Your deck is more forgiving.
All in all the deck is a blast to play and viable. Not Tier 1, of course, but good and off-the-wall enough that it can surprise Tier 1 decks in the current Meta.
I'd love a way to work some red into it for Haste. In fact, the decklist is saved on my computer as "NeedsHaste.dek"
I know everyone says Defenders as a deck can't compete, but I won a few local tournaments this week with the paper version of this deck and have done fairly well on MTGO.
I believe it's a solid concept, it's just missing a few cards.
The deck has a few win cons: Chariot on a red wall is pretty nuts. Chandra for burn. Sentinel for burn. Sarkhan for sac'ing a wall for a 5/5 flier and card draw.
I feel the deck needs just a bit more oomph. It's obvious weakness is Day of Judgment but with the high creature count, it's not a fatal one.
Yep, you're unfortunately missing a mechanic. Training Grounds can't reduce a level-up cost to less than 1. Therefore, Transcendent Master won't level up any sooner with a Training Grounds than without one.
Decent sideboard card for Vengevine and Obstinate Baloth.
We'll still have caress. I think when Megrim rotates out the deck will move more towards a BR control variant with a 4x copy of tutelage and some of the various lifegain kill spells that black sports.
Burning Inquiry will fill a nihil stone even when their hand is empty making a great early and late draw.
Sleep
Unfortunately, I would attribute a good chunk of that success to the $200 that is BSA and the relative scarcity of appropriate removal in the modern meta.
BSA can make almost any deck run at least pretty well.
When playing a very planeswalker heavy Deck Demystify acts as oblivion ring 4-8.
After about 50 matches against Jund players with boosters on the line about 50% of them (no joke) will try to Maelstrom Pulse a drone token at least once during the match.
Feeds into my thesis that playing Jund gives you pimples and makes you fat and lazy.
I've had success with vines of the vastwood vs Poly. You may try that SB if it's in your meta.
Neat idea but with infinite mana why wouldn't you just cast Banefire?
They don't pulse/terminate/judgment/path/ring/etc your Eldrazi the next turn leaving you with a Demon and no permanents?
I find my Eldrazi often get removed...but their "When you cast" benefits tend to give me the advantage.
I took your deck for a 50 game testdrive on MTGO yesterday and today in 2 player booster tournaments. I have to say, the deck is surprisingly consistent. I can't believe I'm using the word "Consistent" in reference to hardcasting Eldrazi.
The deck went 36 and 14. Here's some breakdowns against popular decks:
Against Jund (My Garruk is bigger than your Garruk): 14-8.
Heh. You would be shocked and dismayed how many Jund players try to Maelstrom Pulse Eldrazi Drones. Makes me giggle every time. Feeds into my thesis that playing Jund in the current meta makes you fat and lazy.
The matchup is pretty favorable. They tend to assume we're Allies or something and the early walls do well. Don't be afraid to sac them to Leech if you have backup.
Discard Eldrazi to Blightning for a minimal loss of card advantage unless you're planning on casting in the next turn or two.
Sideboarding in all four Acidic slimes makes this matchup a snap. I take out DoJs. Kill all their sources of black and you more or less win.
UG Polymorph (Ready, Set, Emrakul!) 3-2.
It's a race to Eldrazi! His Polymorph is 4 mana and an assured hit. Your polymorph is 6 mana and only searches your top 7 cards. He has Jace 2.0 to bounce your Eldrazi. You have Garruk and a slower, more defensive clock.
I hate this matchup.
Anyway, game 1 you pray you manage to go off without him doing so first or without him dropping a jace 2.0.
Game 2 you side in all your PtEs and I also have 4 Vines in my side for Poly and other anti-Eldrazi control. Then you play chicken with the poly player all while waiting for an end-of-turn summoning trap. Vines or path his polys. Kill 4 of them and you win!
RDW, BDW and AIR (Declaring Blockers!): 7-3
These decks are fast...but all your early spells are walls and for some nutty reason none of these decks pack Earthquake either in their MD or SB. They'd almost always take me down to about 4-8 before the deck went off. Survival Cache is a surprising all-star in this situation. The matchup will generally favor you unless they get a god hand. Your deck is more forgiving.
All in all the deck is a blast to play and viable. Not Tier 1, of course, but good and off-the-wall enough that it can surprise Tier 1 decks in the current Meta.
I'd love a way to work some red into it for Haste. In fact, the decklist is saved on my computer as "NeedsHaste.dek"
- 3 Sarkhan the Mad
+ 1 Ajani Vengant
+2 Earthquake
It seems to work well.
I believe it's a solid concept, it's just missing a few cards.
4 Wall of Omens
4 Rage Nimbus
4 Vent Sentinel
4 Perimeter Captain
4 Wall of Reverence
4 Stalwart Shield-Bearers
2 Gorgon Flail
3 Sarkhan the Mad
2 Chandra Nalaar
4 Warmonger's Chariot
10 Plains
7 Mountain
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Arid Mesa
The deck has a few win cons: Chariot on a red wall is pretty nuts. Chandra for burn. Sentinel for burn. Sarkhan for sac'ing a wall for a 5/5 flier and card draw.
I feel the deck needs just a bit more oomph. It's obvious weakness is Day of Judgment but with the high creature count, it's not a fatal one.
So here's what doing the two cards together does:
Hit your opponent for 2
Heal you for 5
Bounce a creature.
Usually if you're going to rely on a two card combo that isn't very strong on their own, you want it to dramatically affect the game.
Ah damn.