Nice ideas, but does peace/quiet really need to be a duel card? It could just read Choose one: Target player can't cast spells this turn or creatures can't attack you this turn.
to/fro has quite similar mana costs, it could read something like: Choose one: Target creature is unblockable this turn or pay 1 untap all creatures you control.
Pull the Tides 2UUU
Enchantment (U)
Cumulative Upkeep - U U: Place a storage counter on ¬
Remove a storage counter to add U to your mana pool
This is essentially the same as yours, and is worded more similarly to cards already in the game. Counters also remove the requirement to remember how much mana is available.
Vote (As you play this spell, each player must vote 'for' or 'against' this card in turn order, with a number of votes equal to one plus the number of Planeswalkers they control. If half or more votes are 'against', counter it and draw a card.)
PS: Terrific idea. Do you mind me using it in a custom set?
Thank you, I would love for you to use this idea, I am probably not going to take it any further myself.
Your rewording makes it clearer. I am curious to see what Vote would look like on a card, since cards that already have long rules text (such as Thieve's Auction) might look a bit cramped with Vote added.
Thank you, I will edit my previous post with your suggested changes (people may refer to your post for the original), I think Eureka's effect works very well.
Make it a 5-card cycle of rare cards. Any nothing more. No support cards, not a mythic, etc.
This effect should be reserved for splashy cards (you know, things that might actually have an effect in multiplayer) and to keep them splashy, they must be special. One for each color.
1. Rare cards do not show up as often in sealed formats, so you don't end up with dead cards.
2. It is ok to have dead cards in sealed formats.
3. If the effect is good enough in multiplayer, you can burn 5 rare slots on it.
4. Not mythics! Players would throw a fit if their mythic rares were completely nonviable in every format.
I can imagine the following exchange though...
p1: Truce?
p2: Bolt Ajani in response.
If normal voting were handled this way... imagine the possibilities.
These things you say make sense, before, I was not thinking in terms of cycles. I was definitely interested in cards with 'splashy' effects, especially cards that would be really board altering/fun in multi player. Here is a cycle I propose, it would be nice to get some feedback (eg. that's boring, that's too cheap, this card would be better for white etc.)
RED (Based on Thieves' Auction)
Diplomatic Thieves' Auction - 1R
Sorcery (rare)
Exile all nontoken permanents. Starting with you, each player chooses one of the exiled cards and puts it onto the battlefield tapped under his or her control. Repeat this process until all those cards have been chosen.
Vote (Each player must vote 'for' or 'against' this card, with a number of votes equal to one plus the number of Planeswalkers they control. If half or more votes are 'against', this spell is countered and you draw a card.)
WHITE (Based on Balance)
Balance Edict - 1W
Sorcery (rare)
Except the player who controls the fewest lands, each player sacrifices lands until all players control the same number of lands as the player who controls the fewest. Players do the same for creatures and for cards in hand.
Vote (Each player must vote 'for' or 'against' this card, with a number of votes equal to one plus the number of Planeswalkers they control. If half or more votes are 'against', this spell is countered and you draw a card.)
BLACK (Based on Living Death)
Living Dead - 1B
Sorcery (rare)
Set aside all creature cards in all graveyards. Then, put each creature that is in play into its owner’s graveyard. Then, put each creature card set aside in this way into play under its owner’s control.
Vote (Each player must vote 'for' or 'against' this card, with a number of votes equal to one plus the number of Planeswalkers they control. If half or more votes are 'against', this spell is countered and you draw a card.)
GREEN (Based on Eureka)
Electrical Hurricane - 1G
Sorcery (rare)
Destroy all artifacts and all creatures with flying.
Ordered Genesis - 1G
Sorcery (rare)
Starting with you, each player may put a permanent card from his or her hand onto the battlefield. Repeat this process until no one puts a card onto the battlefield
Vote (Each player must vote 'for' or 'against' this card, with a number of votes equal to one plus the number of Planeswalkers they control. If half or more votes are 'against', this spell is countered and you draw a card.)
BLUE
Mass Transmogrification - 1U
Enchantment (rare)
Choose a non-legendary creature in play. Every other creature is a copy of that creature.
Vote (Each player must vote 'for' or 'against' this card, with a number of votes equal to one plus the number of Planeswalkers they control. If half or more votes are 'against', this spell is countered and you draw a card.)
I like the idea, but it's tough to make it have an impact on two player games and making one person have more votes, with it not always being the same one... Maybe one vote plus one extra for each payment of X? I like the card draw added in, one card could be an ornithopter with vote... Maybe have some like celestial purge where they effectively cycle when you don't need them. Example:
Cool Celestial Purge Variant 1W
instant (u)
exile target permanent if it's black or red.
Vote - Pay 1 life (as you cast this spell, each player votes 'for' or 'against' it once plus one extra time for each time s/he pays the vote cost. If at least half of the players vote against it it is countered and you draw a card.)
a common cycle could have one generic mana as the cost and an uncommon cycle has one life cost and a rare cycle with a different cost. The order of voting needs to be considered too. It's cool if it works but not if it doesn't.
That is a really interesting change, and seems like it would work well, and be quite flexible. It is nice to have an alternative system to Planeswalkers, which although work well flavour wise, aren't fantastic gameplay wise. I like it.
I am happy for everyone's responses and the popularity of the idea. If anyone wants to take it further themselves, feel free.
The problem is these cards will be utterly dead in draft since your wont have planeswalkers and kind of weak for constructed even with them as you need one to stick. Maybe grant them cycling or have as part of the mechanic you draw a card if you lose the vote? just so they can do something cause its dissapointing losing a card and mana cause nobody else at the table wants the effect
Hmm, this is a good point. I am not very familiar with drafting, so I didn't really consider these things. Card drawing could be worked into the Vote mechanic:
Vote (Each player must vote 'for' or 'against'
this card, with a number of votes equal to
one plus the number of Planeswalkers they
control. If half or more votes are 'against',
this spell is countered and you draw a card.)
(I am not sure if this can be phrased better/more concisely)
Specific cards could also be created that grant extra votes, although this could be annoying if having such cards was mandatory for any viable deck.
Really cool idea, I like it, but I still don't like playing with or against Planeswalkers. I was originally trying to do something like this (in multiplayer games) with my Syphon mechanic.
Well executed!
Thanks
I don't particularly like Planeswalkers either, this mechanic would work better if Planeswalkers were more frequently used. The main reason for Planeswalkers voting was to make Vote a valid ability for two-player games, I can't think of a better alternative.
interesting idea, though I'd say you should need MORE than half the votes. Playing spells and having them countered just seems annoying.
The reason it is half or more is so that in a two player game, the keyword has significance (and can be viewed as a significant extra cost, so mana costs can be lowered). If the wording was more than half, then to cast this spell you only need your opponent to not have a Planewalker on their field, which is often going to be the case. In a two player game, the cost of a spell with Vote is essentially its mana cost plus the cost of casting a Planeswalker.
This mechanic is better in multi player, where the outcome is more variable and does not require you having a Planeswalker for your spell to be successful. Coming up with cards which have a good chance of being voted for, but still give you an advantage is a major challenge (although for casual play the cards do not necessarily need to be good, just fun to play.)
The difficulty in playing spells with Vote is why I considered other ways to get Votes (i.e. creatures), but this just didn't seems as good thematically. Perhaps some flexibility is needed such as "Vote - Planeswalkers", or "Vote - Artifacts".
Thanks for your input, I'm glad you like it. I was also thinking that vote could be applied to globals (with a lower cost to compensate). I was also thinking having some sort of political/legal theme for each card.
Yes, Truce is broken, perhaps it needs to be 4BW or something of that sort? The main thing I care about is Vote though.
Vote (Each player must vote 'for' or 'against'
this card, with a number of votes equal to one
plus the number of Planeswalkers they control.
If half or more votes are 'against', this spell is
countered.)
This keyword is best for multiplayer games. For two-player games Vote basically acts as a drawback that requires that you have more Planewalkers in play then your opponent.
Cards with Vote should have effects that other players would want to vote 'for' in a multiplayer game.
Examples:
Healing Decree - 1W
Enchantment (uncommon)
For the remainder of the game, whenever a player draws a card that player gains 1 life.
Vote (Each player must vote 'for' or 'against' this card, with a number of votes equal to one plus the number of Planeswalkers they control. If half or more votes are 'against', this spell is countered.)
Law of Balance - 2W
Sorcery (rare)
Except the player who controls the fewest lands, each player sacrifices lands until all players control the same number of lands as the player who controls the fewest. Players do the same for creatures and for cards in hand.
Vote (Each player must vote 'for' or 'against' this card, with a number of votes equal to one plus the number of Planeswalkers they control. If half or more votes are 'against', this spell is countered.)
Truce - BW
Enchantment (uncommon)
Any player may choose to skip their next draw phase. If a player chooses to skip their next draw phase, the next player must skip their next draw phase (this is not a choice).
Vote (Each player must vote 'for' or 'against' this card, with a number of votes equal to one plus the number of Planeswalkers they control. If half or more votes are 'against', this spell is countered.)
There are many changes that could be made to Vote, I would be very happy if other people wanted to take a crack at the specific mechanics/ wording etc. One possible change would be to replace the word 'Planeswalker' with 'creature'.
Is Vote any good? Can you think of any better ideas for cards using this keyword?
to/fro has quite similar mana costs, it could read something like: Choose one: Target creature is unblockable this turn or pay 1 untap all creatures you control.
Pull the Tides 2UUU
Enchantment (U)
Cumulative Upkeep - U
U: Place a storage counter on ¬
Remove a storage counter to add U to your mana pool
This is essentially the same as yours, and is worded more similarly to cards already in the game. Counters also remove the requirement to remember how much mana is available.
Thank you, I would love for you to use this idea, I am probably not going to take it any further myself.
Your rewording makes it clearer. I am curious to see what Vote would look like on a card, since cards that already have long rules text (such as Thieve's Auction) might look a bit cramped with Vote added.
These things you say make sense, before, I was not thinking in terms of cycles. I was definitely interested in cards with 'splashy' effects, especially cards that would be really board altering/fun in multi player. Here is a cycle I propose, it would be nice to get some feedback (eg. that's boring, that's too cheap, this card would be better for white etc.)
RED (Based on Thieves' Auction)
Diplomatic Thieves' Auction - 1R
Sorcery (rare)
Exile all nontoken permanents. Starting with you, each player chooses one of the exiled cards and puts it onto the battlefield tapped under his or her control. Repeat this process until all those cards have been chosen.
Vote (Each player must vote 'for' or 'against' this card, with a number of votes equal to one plus the number of Planeswalkers they control. If half or more votes are 'against', this spell is countered and you draw a card.)
WHITE (Based on Balance)
Balance Edict - 1W
Sorcery (rare)
Except the player who controls the fewest lands, each player sacrifices lands until all players control the same number of lands as the player who controls the fewest. Players do the same for creatures and for cards in hand.
Vote (Each player must vote 'for' or 'against' this card, with a number of votes equal to one plus the number of Planeswalkers they control. If half or more votes are 'against', this spell is countered and you draw a card.)
BLACK (Based on Living Death)
Living Dead - 1B
Sorcery (rare)
Set aside all creature cards in all graveyards. Then, put each creature that is in play into its owner’s graveyard. Then, put each creature card set aside in this way into play under its owner’s control.
Vote (Each player must vote 'for' or 'against' this card, with a number of votes equal to one plus the number of Planeswalkers they control. If half or more votes are 'against', this spell is countered and you draw a card.)
GREEN (Based on Eureka)
Electrical Hurricane - 1GSorcery (rare)
Destroy all artifacts and all creatures with flying.
Ordered Genesis - 1G
Sorcery (rare)
Starting with you, each player may put a permanent card from his or her hand onto the battlefield. Repeat this process until no one puts a card onto the battlefield
Vote (Each player must vote 'for' or 'against' this card, with a number of votes equal to one plus the number of Planeswalkers they control. If half or more votes are 'against', this spell is countered and you draw a card.)
BLUE
Mass Transmogrification - 1U
Enchantment (rare)
Choose a non-legendary creature in play. Every other creature is a copy of that creature.
Vote (Each player must vote 'for' or 'against' this card, with a number of votes equal to one plus the number of Planeswalkers they control. If half or more votes are 'against', this spell is countered and you draw a card.)
That is a really interesting change, and seems like it would work well, and be quite flexible. It is nice to have an alternative system to Planeswalkers, which although work well flavour wise, aren't fantastic gameplay wise. I like it.
I am happy for everyone's responses and the popularity of the idea. If anyone wants to take it further themselves, feel free.
Hmm, this is a good point. I am not very familiar with drafting, so I didn't really consider these things. Card drawing could be worked into the Vote mechanic:
Vote (Each player must vote 'for' or 'against'
this card, with a number of votes equal to
one plus the number of Planeswalkers they
control. If half or more votes are 'against',
this spell is countered and you draw a card.)
(I am not sure if this can be phrased better/more concisely)
Specific cards could also be created that grant extra votes, although this could be annoying if having such cards was mandatory for any viable deck.
Thanks
I don't particularly like Planeswalkers either, this mechanic would work better if Planeswalkers were more frequently used. The main reason for Planeswalkers voting was to make Vote a valid ability for two-player games, I can't think of a better alternative.
The reason it is half or more is so that in a two player game, the keyword has significance (and can be viewed as a significant extra cost, so mana costs can be lowered). If the wording was more than half, then to cast this spell you only need your opponent to not have a Planewalker on their field, which is often going to be the case. In a two player game, the cost of a spell with Vote is essentially its mana cost plus the cost of casting a Planeswalker.
This mechanic is better in multi player, where the outcome is more variable and does not require you having a Planeswalker for your spell to be successful. Coming up with cards which have a good chance of being voted for, but still give you an advantage is a major challenge (although for casual play the cards do not necessarily need to be good, just fun to play.)
The difficulty in playing spells with Vote is why I considered other ways to get Votes (i.e. creatures), but this just didn't seems as good thematically. Perhaps some flexibility is needed such as "Vote - Planeswalkers", or "Vote - Artifacts".
Yes, Truce is broken, perhaps it needs to be 4BW or something of that sort? The main thing I care about is Vote though.
this card, with a number of votes equal to one
plus the number of Planeswalkers they control.
If half or more votes are 'against', this spell is
countered.)
This keyword is best for multiplayer games. For two-player games Vote basically acts as a drawback that requires that you have more Planewalkers in play then your opponent.
Cards with Vote should have effects that other players would want to vote 'for' in a multiplayer game.
Examples:
Healing Decree - 1W
Enchantment (uncommon)
For the remainder of the game, whenever a player draws a card that player gains 1 life.
Vote (Each player must vote 'for' or 'against' this card, with a number of votes equal to one plus the number of Planeswalkers they control. If half or more votes are 'against', this spell is countered.)
Law of Balance - 2W
Sorcery (rare)
Except the player who controls the fewest lands, each player sacrifices lands until all players control the same number of lands as the player who controls the fewest. Players do the same for creatures and for cards in hand.
Vote (Each player must vote 'for' or 'against' this card, with a number of votes equal to one plus the number of Planeswalkers they control. If half or more votes are 'against', this spell is countered.)
Truce - BW
Enchantment (uncommon)
Any player may choose to skip their next draw phase. If a player chooses to skip their next draw phase, the next player must skip their next draw phase (this is not a choice).
Vote (Each player must vote 'for' or 'against' this card, with a number of votes equal to one plus the number of Planeswalkers they control. If half or more votes are 'against', this spell is countered.)
There are many changes that could be made to Vote, I would be very happy if other people wanted to take a crack at the specific mechanics/ wording etc. One possible change would be to replace the word 'Planeswalker' with 'creature'.
Is Vote any good? Can you think of any better ideas for cards using this keyword?