I really love having massive Salvage Titans out first or second turn.
At first, the decks only real win-condition was Salvage Titan and there were way more 0-cost artifacts. Well, that didn't work out too well most of the time but when it did work out it was awesome. To kind of give the deck a little more reach I added the Glaze Fiends. These work well with the low cast artifacts but were bad after all the artifacts were gone so I added the chromatic star and sphere for some cheap card draw to give the fiends more gas without hurting the Titans too much.
Then recently, a friend pointed out Slag Fiend to me recently and these seem perfect for this type of deck. I still kind of feel like the deck is missing something.
I haven't played it with Slag Fiends yet though. My main problem before was that my Titan would just die to Journey to Nowhere and I would sit there with nothing. Even if the Titan is Terminated I can usually get him back out again very quickly. The Fiends may be what I need to give the deck some more power and consistency.
They don't seem great with Salvage Titan if I want to return him to hand from the grave. But then I was thinking that if I have a big Slag Fiend out I probably won't need to return the Titan until the Fiend dies.
Anyways, the deck looks fine but I really want some other ideas. There has to be some awesome cards that I'm not thinking of right now!
I have tons of cards and am not on too much of a budget. Also, if somehow this deck can be broken it doesn't matter too much. The main person I play against has some pretty nasty decks that I wouldn't mind beating. >_<
A couple of the Hulks and Architects are likely coming out.
Dauntless is at best a sideboard card. 3 drops suck in this deck because there are only 4 hierarchs so they will never actually drop on turn 2 with any frequency. And a turn 2 dauntless escort? Probably the worst play ever, unless we were playing a format where you lose the game if your hierarch dies..
I meant that Escort is a possibility to be in the deck instead of Heirarch and not try to get Heirarch out to get Escort out early. That's kind of pointless. The Escort can then protect your 1 and 2 drops from things like Day of Judgement, Earthquake, etc.
Also, edited last post with your quotes. Pretty much just responded to each of your lines in order. I was just being lazy. It won't happen again, bro.
I had no idea what was going on in your post. What I read was: gooble gobble random blah blah yakkity something something landfall pokemon white weenie.
You seriously need to quote stuff so I can understand what context you are making your statements under.
Your point is valid. But then again, anyone including myself can name a situation where emeria angel doesn't suck. You should read stuff in context, that might help. Emeria angel sucks in an aggro deck, because it takes way too long to go online.
I just wanted to say that Emeria Angel and Knight of the Reliquary did not "suck". I never said they should be in an aggro deck. Though I'm considering the Knight in my list.
The 2 white allies are reasonably good on their own even without anything else, whereas survivalist is inefficient unless you actually have other allies.
Sorry but I don't think that Hada Freeblades are that great on thier own. 1/2's just don't cut it. People want something better than Elite Vanguards in Boros. EDIT. I don't think that Hada Freeblades are that good on thier own. Same with what you think of the Survivalists.
There's no 3-drops in my deck list. You always drop these second turn to run a 4-drop on turn 3 and give exalted to your 1 drop.
Always dropping Noble Heirach on turn 2 is a bit situational. Try 3 drops to better your curve. Off the top of my head Dauntless Escort will protect you from a Wrath effect which seems good with so many creatures out. Also, he himself is a creature. Awesome! Or even Steward of Valeron instead of the Noble. 2/2 vigilance for 2 man with mana acceleration. you can attack with your 2/2 and use the mana afterwards! Though I get that it may be hard for you to cast your Kazandu Blademasters at times and recommend dropping them and putting them into either a white weenie deck or ally deck. EDIT. I meant instead of mana dork go with a couple of 3 drops or even Steward..
With 5 drops you really need 25 lands maybe 24 not crappy dorks that don't do anything.
"Your deck has no instants or sorceries" doesn't help anyone? Name a deck that wins without instants or sorceries, besides 3 valakut + 53 mountains + 4 ashling (hell ya!).
And it seems like you didn't read the entire thread and instead decided to pick and chose my lines out of context. So I will do that.
I did pick certain lines to show what I meant, as did you in most of your posts. Here's 1 example.
Dude just leave this thread. Your opinions that my decklist sucks are no reason to flame me and say I've contributed nothing to the thread. If you didn't notice, the original poster's list include thornlings and admonition angels. Some people mean midrange when they say agro. Since his decklist included those cards, I figured he meant midrange so I posted my midrange deck idea.
I don't know about you, but I like posting in a way that is logically comprehendable. 1 post per response to 1 person. Forum mods be damned.
You don't think people will understand that you are trying to speak to 2 different people in 1 post? Well, I'll just have to show you how possible it is after responding to you.
About Baneslayer, did you know that extended Zoo runs them? Zoo is aggro correct? Yet, running Baneslayers is fine for them. 4 or 5 drops do not necessarily mean "can never be in aggro deck".
@doobieboy3
I have yet to test it but Emeria Angel does actually seem a bit slow for aggro and without Honor of the Pure it seems a bit weak.
Garruk is pretty solid as it makes a 3/3 or untaps lands to get to ultimate next turn.
Ruin Ghost is interesting and I'll have to test it but it just seems too situational with only Steppe Lynx, Rampaging Baloths, and Emeria Angel to go off with which I reccomend taking 2 of these out.
Rampaging Baloths is most definitely too slow with 22 lands even with 2 dorks.
Novablast Wurm - same as baloths
Khalni Garden is interesting but I don't think it belongs here. You've got no way to pump them makeing them 0/1 chump blockers for 1 turn without that extra green mana. I'd rather play a real threat. Well I guess you do have Garruk's ultimate but still.
@ z3phrn
This is just 1 way you can reply to multiple people in 1 post.
After going through some cards, if anyone is interested, I will post my decklist. Well, I'll be posting it whether or not you are interested. ;p
Terra Eternal doesn't do anything to stop a land destruction deck, since cards like Acidic Slime and Mold Shambler can just as easily target the enchantment. You take a turn (and a card) to put that into play, when all it does is waste time.
I do not like it when people say things like this. Did you really think this would be helpful to anyone? Same goes to just about anything else you've said.
How does Emeria Angel suck? You'll likely have an Honor of the Pure out which will keep it out of bolt range and get at least 1-2 2/2 birds out of it, w/ honor of course, as long as you play it correctly. [hint-play on 5th turn]
Also, Knight of the Reliquary is very relevant as it can be a 4/4 or 5/5 on 3rd turn for 3 mana and of course you should not be using the ability for the most part and instead attack, but if the opponent has something like a Wall of Denial or 2 out then sit back and make it bigger.
Bestial menace over garruk totally works since garruk always get shot if he tries to make a token. I keep getting forced to untap 2 lands first to make sure he doesn't die in 1 shot, so the tokens come into play 1 turn later.
What? If you make a 3/3 token and they bolt your Garruk so what? You've gotten 2 cards out of Garruk already and now they need something else to get rid of the token.
About your list. Scute Mob is a very weak card in my opinion. Earlier on it is a 1/1 for 1 that will die before you have enough lands. Playing it when you'll have the right amount of lands the next turn is the best choice and even then it gives the opponent a turn to destroy it. Just hope they don't have removal game is not as good when it dies to any removal being a 1/1. I'd rather drop Baneslayer on that turn which won't die to these~ Bolt, Burst, Smother, Urge to feed, etc. while Scute Mob does die to these and everything Baneslayer dies to. Harms Way is a sideboard card at best. Against many decks it's just a dead card.
I don't like Noble Heirarch because the exalted is pretty pointless and I don't think you need mana acceleration in an aggro deck. Usually you want to drop a threat instead.
If you're running Hada Freeblades and Kazandu Blademasters maybe consider running Oran-Rief Survivalists. They are weak by themselves but with that many allys they'll just get bigger. Beastial Menace seems pretty good. You get 3 threats with 1 card but the great part is you get 3 different threats meaning Maelstrom Pulse will not kill them all.
I think that Garruk is better than Ajani Goldmane because it makes actual threats while Goldmane does not. [excluding ultimate which if you're there you're gaining too much life.] Vines of Vastwood forces you to play more defensively and could give opponent 2 for 1's and also makes you keep mana open when you want to play threats. Path to Exile is good and also might have you leave mana open but it's only 1 mana and very much worth it.
I don't see how you're contributing to the thread z3phrm, you just tell others that a card sucks or bashing other peoples ideas without reasoning. Saying things like "Your deck has no instants or sorceries" or "get over it." does not help anyone. Maybe next time give better reasoning to why you would not want certain cards or why something else is better.
PS. Use the edit button when posting something new and there is no post past your earlier one.
PSS. Baneslayer wins games if unanswered. Or the game will be greatly in your favor if you get a hit on your opponent with this.
Meaning put this in any white deck if you will make it to 5th turn ever.
4 of those creatures suck, and are basically combo pieces and only work if you have a knight out.
More combo with knight and steppe. Why is it a combo and not synergy?
- Steppe sucks on its own.
- Knight sucks on its own.
- Knight fetching steppe = good.
This is a combo by any means.
I was making an absurd comparison to mycoid shepherd because in this case, even the garbage known as mycoid shepherd is better, because you know to swing with it rather than sitting around twiddling your thumbs and fetching lands to make flying tokens. If we were playing a game (lets call it "Lagic") where you win if you get 15 landfall triggers, then sure... lets run this deck.
It does make it too slow when the whole deck is some sort of jank combo focused on ramping out flying tokens with no overrun effect...
You understand that w/g has no card draw right? And 25 lands means less other cards right? Until the day comes that lands can be used as creatures and swing for 3 every turn... wait... forget that.
I can't believe that one of the arguments for playing more lands is that you have such a high number of CIPT lands. The thought process should go something like this:
1. I have a ton of CIPT lands!
2. Play less CIPT lands.
3. Win a tournament.
4. Profit!
I think 3-4 manlands is fine. Not sure what lands you're complaining about though.
I think you left a step out
1. I have a ton of CIPT lands!
2. Play less CIPT lands.
3. Win a tournament 4. ???
5. Profit
tweaked with the blood edict decklist a bit, and this is what i came up. the hellsparks can be easily changed to smother if white or something similar becomes too prevalent. the only problem i've been having is that the 3 mana slot is kinda cluttered. hell's thunder was the least useful for me during my testing, but the speed helps a lot.
I don't like bit blast in these builds.. hitting earthquake is not good (which has been said millions of times) and you're also forced to play it at sorcery speed if you want to get use out of you're hellsparks and hell's thunders. Just doesn't seem very synergetic.
Basically trying to use dorks to get land destruction out quick while getting rid of anything they manage to play with bolts and attack with crappy guys and thornlings.
Suggestions/Ideas Please.
All in all I am pretty impressed with the deck, but less impressed with my own decisions ; p. my only complaint has already been voiced here several times, that it rides the line too close to death most of the time.
A question if I may, has any consideration been given to running Chandra ablaze as opposed to Chandra Nalaar. In about 50% of my matchups i've found myself running out of gas around turn 7-8 and hoping to top-deck removal. Using Ablaze's ability to discard yours and your opponents hand would give you 3 cards and disrupt your opponent. Not to mention you could in theory pitch a hellspark to the discard ability, deal four damage to a block, unearth the hellspark and swing in the same turn. Or if there is no blocker you net 7 damage with the hellspark instead of 6, and in the same turn instead of 2 turns.
Anyways, hope I can contribute to this awesome deck.
I've also noticed that when playing this deck you will get to under 5 life and win alot of the time. It was pretty awesome Volcanic Fallouting against RDW with only 4 life and him having 2 life FTW.
Oh, and thanks for the tips about playing a turn slower against them. It really helps and I probably would have went all out my first time with this deck.
I think that because Chandra Ablaze costs 1 more mana than Chandra Nalaar and can't kill a Baneslayer, Nalaar is a better choice. And if you do ever get to the ultimate (at which point you'll probably be ahead if they have nothing to deal with it) then I think Nalaar's will usually be better and will hit sooner because of the 5cc. Though casting blightnings for free does sound like a pretty cool guy.
My recommendation:
Take out 1 Emeria, the Sky Ruin and about 3 Plains and replace them with fetch lands, or even Terramorphic Expanses would work. This gets you your land out of your deck a lot faster and make it easier to draw into token giving spells to feed your Eldrazi's. I wouldn't recommend playing all 3 at once though... I would say pull the Oblivion Ring's, and replace w/ Honor of the Pure, as mentioned above. I would definitely add in: X4 Emeria Angel. Many reasons for this, 1: Spawns tokens to sac. (1/1 birds) everytime you land fall. Combined with fetch lands... your amounts of tokens won't run short. 2: if you don't have Eldrazi out, the Bird tokens are your air defense, as well as Emeria Angel. 3: It's more useful than Knight of the White Orchird, especially in this deck... You might wanna add some Kor Skyfishers as cannonfodder after you bounce lands to landfall emeria, but that's just me.... Maybe only 2 Day of Judgements, and definitely 4 Martial coups because it gives Soldier Tokens and clears the field. 2 ajani goldmane is plenty, maybe to replace the 2 card slots still open (i think there are only 2 from what I mentioned...) X2 Brave the Elements, for a few reasons as well. 1: It will protect all your creatures on the field BEFORE you get Eldrazi out. 2: When you protect all your white creatures from XXX color, and when creatures are protected from XXX, then no creatures, spells, or abilities from anything of XXX color can affect them, so they can attack without any worries, pretty much making it a game finisher. These are just some suggestions, don't have to follow them. Good luck on your deck
I like these suggestions. I was going to suggest taking out all DoJ but it looks like it would be good after playing monument, so 2 looks good maybe 3. Also maybe another elspeth because having token generators are good for Eldrazi. Definitely think Emeria Angel would be perfect in here.
I actually may try to get the cards for this deck.
I'm not sure, and no, this is not the place for that.
Make a new thread in Developing Competitive in Extended, copypasta the decklist from here, and ask what to put in.
They will probably tell you to put in Demigod of Revenge, among other things.
EDIT: OK, I would like you guys to consider this. B/R Discard.
4x Slag Fiend
4x Glaze Fiend
4x Ornithopter
4x Sigil of Distinction
4x Chromatic Star
4x Chromatic Sphere
4x Glassdust Hulk
4x Architects of Will
4x Welding Jar
4x Vault of the Whispers
4x Seat of the Synod
4x Great Furnace
4x Darksteel Citadel
I really love having massive Salvage Titans out first or second turn.
At first, the decks only real win-condition was Salvage Titan and there were way more 0-cost artifacts. Well, that didn't work out too well most of the time but when it did work out it was awesome. To kind of give the deck a little more reach I added the Glaze Fiends. These work well with the low cast artifacts but were bad after all the artifacts were gone so I added the chromatic star and sphere for some cheap card draw to give the fiends more gas without hurting the Titans too much.
Then recently, a friend pointed out Slag Fiend to me recently and these seem perfect for this type of deck. I still kind of feel like the deck is missing something.
I haven't played it with Slag Fiends yet though. My main problem before was that my Titan would just die to Journey to Nowhere and I would sit there with nothing. Even if the Titan is Terminated I can usually get him back out again very quickly. The Fiends may be what I need to give the deck some more power and consistency.
They don't seem great with Salvage Titan if I want to return him to hand from the grave. But then I was thinking that if I have a big Slag Fiend out I probably won't need to return the Titan until the Fiend dies.
Anyways, the deck looks fine but I really want some other ideas. There has to be some awesome cards that I'm not thinking of right now!
I have tons of cards and am not on too much of a budget. Also, if somehow this deck can be broken it doesn't matter too much. The main person I play against has some pretty nasty decks that I wouldn't mind beating. >_<
A couple of the Hulks and Architects are likely coming out.
I've considered:
Salvage Slasher
Galvanic Blast
Shrapnel Blast
Dispatch
Atog
Painsmith
Frogmite
Myr Enforcer
Cranial Plating
There has to be a good sacrifice outlet for my artifacts that I'm not thinking of and doesn't cost tons of mana or money.
I really like Salvage Titan but maybe the deck would be better without it. Sad, considering that the Titans are the reason I made this deck. Dx
I really want the deck to be more consistent mainly. But I wouldn't mind going in a completely different direction either.
It isn't..
Just a Leatherback Baloth that dies to anything that kills a 1/1. I guess it kind of has haste though..
I meant that Escort is a possibility to be in the deck instead of Heirarch and not try to get Heirarch out to get Escort out early. That's kind of pointless. The Escort can then protect your 1 and 2 drops from things like Day of Judgement, Earthquake, etc.
Also, edited last post with your quotes. Pretty much just responded to each of your lines in order. I was just being lazy. It won't happen again, bro.
lolpizza
I just wanted to say that Emeria Angel and Knight of the Reliquary did not "suck". I never said they should be in an aggro deck. Though I'm considering the Knight in my list.
Fetching the 2 scute mobs seems pretty good though, I may try that.
Sorry but I don't think that Hada Freeblades are that great on thier own. 1/2's just don't cut it. People want something better than Elite Vanguards in Boros.
EDIT. I don't think that Hada Freeblades are that good on thier own. Same with what you think of the Survivalists.
Always dropping Noble Heirach on turn 2 is a bit situational. Try 3 drops to better your curve. Off the top of my head Dauntless Escort will protect you from a Wrath effect which seems good with so many creatures out. Also, he himself is a creature. Awesome! Or even Steward of Valeron instead of the Noble. 2/2 vigilance for 2 man with mana acceleration. you can attack with your 2/2 and use the mana afterwards!
EDIT. I meant instead of mana dork go with a couple of 3 drops or even Steward..
With 5 drops you really need 25 lands maybe 24 not crappy dorks that don't do anything.
Just because I spent 10 minutes critiquing your deck does not mean you contributed. It means I did.
I did pick certain lines to show what I meant, as did you in most of your posts. Here's 1 example.
what he said.
what you quoted.
What I meant by quoting you saying "get over it" is that maybe instead of responses like this you could help others improve their list.
I'm an ass!? oh, you ;P EDIT. Hint~ you quoted me saying "i'm an ass" then you said "yup" and we all had a big laugh.
You don't think people will understand that you are trying to speak to 2 different people in 1 post? Well, I'll just have to show you how possible it is after responding to you.
About Baneslayer, did you know that extended Zoo runs them? Zoo is aggro correct? Yet, running Baneslayers is fine for them. 4 or 5 drops do not necessarily mean "can never be in aggro deck".
@doobieboy3
I have yet to test it but Emeria Angel does actually seem a bit slow for aggro and without Honor of the Pure it seems a bit weak.
Garruk is pretty solid as it makes a 3/3 or untaps lands to get to ultimate next turn.
Ruin Ghost is interesting and I'll have to test it but it just seems too situational with only Steppe Lynx, Rampaging Baloths, and Emeria Angel to go off with which I reccomend taking 2 of these out.
Rampaging Baloths is most definitely too slow with 22 lands even with 2 dorks.
Novablast Wurm - same as baloths
Khalni Garden is interesting but I don't think it belongs here. You've got no way to pump them makeing them 0/1 chump blockers for 1 turn without that extra green mana. I'd rather play a real threat. Well I guess you do have Garruk's ultimate but still.
@ z3phrn
This is just 1 way you can reply to multiple people in 1 post.
After going through some cards, if anyone is interested, I will post my decklist.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=215996
I use dorks and harrows here to help.
Could you post or direct me to your decklist?
I do not like it when people say things like this. Did you really think this would be helpful to anyone? Same goes to just about anything else you've said.
How does Emeria Angel suck? You'll likely have an Honor of the Pure out which will keep it out of bolt range and get at least 1-2 2/2 birds out of it, w/ honor of course, as long as you play it correctly. [hint-play on 5th turn]
Also, Knight of the Reliquary is very relevant as it can be a 4/4 or 5/5 on 3rd turn for 3 mana and of course you should not be using the ability for the most part and instead attack, but if the opponent has something like a Wall of Denial or 2 out then sit back and make it bigger.
What? If you make a 3/3 token and they bolt your Garruk so what? You've gotten 2 cards out of Garruk already and now they need something else to get rid of the token.
About your list.
Scute Mob is a very weak card in my opinion. Earlier on it is a 1/1 for 1 that will die before you have enough lands. Playing it when you'll have the right amount of lands the next turn is the best choice and even then it gives the opponent a turn to destroy it. Just hope they don't have removal game is not as good when it dies to any removal being a 1/1. I'd rather drop Baneslayer on that turn which won't die to these~ Bolt, Burst, Smother, Urge to feed, etc. while Scute Mob does die to these and everything Baneslayer dies to.
Harms Way is a sideboard card at best. Against many decks it's just a dead card.
I don't like Noble Heirarch because the exalted is pretty pointless and I don't think you need mana acceleration in an aggro deck. Usually you want to drop a threat instead.
If you're running Hada Freeblades and Kazandu Blademasters maybe consider running Oran-Rief Survivalists. They are weak by themselves but with that many allys they'll just get bigger.
Beastial Menace seems pretty good. You get 3 threats with 1 card but the great part is you get 3 different threats meaning Maelstrom Pulse will not kill them all.
I think that Garruk is better than Ajani Goldmane because it makes actual threats while Goldmane does not. [excluding ultimate which if you're there you're gaining too much life.]
Vines of Vastwood forces you to play more defensively and could give opponent 2 for 1's and also makes you keep mana open when you want to play threats.
Path to Exile is good and also might have you leave mana open but it's only 1 mana and very much worth it.
I don't see how you're contributing to the thread z3phrm, you just tell others that a card sucks or bashing other peoples ideas without reasoning. Saying things like "Your deck has no instants or sorceries" or "get over it." does not help anyone. Maybe next time give better reasoning to why you would not want certain cards or why something else is better.
PS. Use the edit button when posting something new and there is no post past your earlier one.
PSS. Baneslayer wins games if unanswered. Or the game will be greatly in your favor if you get a hit on your opponent with this.
Meaning put this in any white deck if you will make it to 5th turn ever.
PSSS. Don't troll.
EDIT.
I think 3-4 manlands is fine. Not sure what lands you're complaining about though.
I think you left a step out
1. I have a ton of CIPT lands!
2. Play less CIPT lands.
3. Win a tournament
4. ???
5. Profit
I don't like bit blast in these builds.. hitting earthquake is not good (which has been said millions of times) and you're also forced to play it at sorcery speed if you want to get use out of you're hellsparks and hell's thunders. Just doesn't seem very synergetic.
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Acidic Slime
4 Goblin Ruinblaster
2 Mold Shambler
4 Thornling
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Burst Lightning
3 Harrow
4 Demolish
4 Rootbound Crag
11 Forest
9 Mountain
Basically trying to use dorks to get land destruction out quick while getting rid of anything they manage to play with bolts and attack with crappy guys and thornlings.
Suggestions/Ideas Please.
I've also noticed that when playing this deck you will get to under 5 life and win alot of the time. It was pretty awesome Volcanic Fallouting against RDW with only 4 life and him having 2 life FTW.
Oh, and thanks for the tips about playing a turn slower against them. It really helps and I probably would have went all out my first time with this deck.
I think that because Chandra Ablaze costs 1 more mana than Chandra Nalaar and can't kill a Baneslayer, Nalaar is a better choice. And if you do ever get to the ultimate (at which point you'll probably be ahead if they have nothing to deal with it) then I think Nalaar's will usually be better and will hit sooner because of the 5cc. Though casting blightnings for free does sound like a pretty cool guy.
I like these suggestions. I was going to suggest taking out all DoJ but it looks like it would be good after playing monument, so 2 looks good maybe 3. Also maybe another elspeth because having token generators are good for Eldrazi. Definitely think Emeria Angel would be perfect in here.
I actually may try to get the cards for this deck.
I was about to say you should post this somewhere else, but I guess I am cool.
Anyways, I just got my hell's thunder's and am going to be playing this at FNM. Any tips?
Here is build
4 Bloodghast
4 Hellspark Elemental
4 Hell's Thunder
3 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Malakir Bloodwitch
Spells
4 Blightning
3 Earthquake
3 Volcanic Fallout
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Terminate
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Akoum Refuge
8 Swamp
8 Mountain
3 Thought Hemmorhage
3 Pithing Needle
3 Fleshbag Marauder
3 Deathmark
2 Chandra Nalaar
1 Malakir Bloodwitch