For a while now, rianalnn's position on staff has come into question. See: Gloves thread. Many users have expressed concern about his role as an Administrator.
The staff has been working on a solution to this problem, and we were running it through Azrael in the so called "Summit", the multichat between Azrael, the administrators (rianalnn, Sene, viperesque, Nai), and ExpiredRascals.
It is, to be brief, to move rianalnn from his Administrator position to that of a Technician. Technicians have typically been just that - Technicians, and not Moderators at all. I don't think a Technician has ever been mod of a subforum, for example. They are also not Administrators, so they are not governing the staff, the forums, or creating policies. They're a part of all the Mod Lounges (including the Global and Admin lounges), but in terms of rank in the Mod Lounges, they haven't typically been above vanilla staff.
Access to back end stuff (site coding), all the mod lounges, but Technicians aren't Moderators or Administrators.
We agree that this would be a very good position for rianalnn, where he gets to utilize his Technical skills while avoiding the side of the Administrator position that has been problematic - the handling of staff/users part.
Please feel free to post your comments and questions on this matter in this thread.
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- KamikazeArchon
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Jul 21, 201216
Sene posted a message on Rianalnn's Position on StaffPosted in: Community Discussion -
Jul 20, 201213
Arianrhod posted a message on The Gloves Are Coming OffPosted in: Community DiscussionQuote from {mikeyG}Let's face it, this is a website with staff operating on a volunteer basis. I'm all for holding people to good standards, but when those standards become heavily codified expectations of virtue and excellence, I think we need to gear down a bit. When the expectations (or as you call them, romanticized ideals) grow to be beyond most users' capabilities (let alone staff), perhaps it's time to stop and think about what you're asking for.
I've been wary of this site's expectations of the staff ever since the CoC came out. I'm all for setting standards and abiding by them, but I think it's gone too far when a rigid code of conduct is necessary to moderate a gaming website. I miss what this site was and I fear for what it's becoming.
I'm going to dedicate a post just to this, because I think that there are some very important things to be said on this matter, and you posted it while I was already posted.......and this is going to be long enough that I don't want to make a huge edit.
I'm of the opinion that if this were to happen ANYWHERE, it would actually happen here. Rather than "oh jeez guys calm down, this is just a gaming site;" I would suggest that it is in fact the other way around. This has a higher likelihood of happening -because- it's a gaming site. This is due to the society of gamers.
Note/Disclaimer: I'm not a true expert on this. The assertions below are composed of my opinions, and not scholarly research on the subject. My background is in mythopoesis and digitality, especially the two together -- while I've worked a little with gaming, this is more from my experiences as a gamer, not as an intellectual.
Gamers are primarily influenced by two things: the subject matter they prefer, and the societies they form while experiencing this subject matter.
Example: fantasy gamers like WoW. They are influenced by the content of the game, and by the guilds they form to experience this content.
Fantasy and sci-fi as genres tend to promote a sense of personal excellence as a vehicle for experiencing the medium. You almost always play as a/the "hero," who is destined to fight the bad guy, win the girl, and walk away slowmo from explosions. These genres promote the concept that you CAN make a difference. This is only increased by nature of the political units formed within these games -- primarily clans and guilds, which are essentially the same thing, just renamed. Anyone can start a clan. Anyone can be promoted to lead a clan.
The result of these two things together, alongside real-world stimuli and the very real sense that fixing our world rests squarely on the shoulders of the latest maturing generation, has led to an odd culture of bleak idealism. I would say from experiences with most of my generational brothers and sisters that my generation (I'm 23) are fairly idealistic. We want to make a difference, and we believe that we can. A lot of us are pretty romantic in the methods we go about things, which references back to the games we played growing up. Alongside this idealism, though, is an undercurrent of bleak nihilism....aka what happens when we try to make a difference, but we fail. I suspect that romantic idealism and bleak nihilism are very closely connected, and in fact you can't have one without the other (the ancient concept of Yin/Yang). It's a matter of channeling the idealism into something where we actually CAN make a difference, and not getting upset by the things that we can't, lest we fall into despair.
With that in mind, I would say that, in direct opposition to what you said, if we're going to have expectations beyond most peoples' capabilities ANYWHERE in the world, it would be here. It leads naturally into itself. The problem is when the nihilism overtakes the idealism, which is where we're at now. From what I've seen, Ria has burned out. His dark is outweighing his light. Whether it's truly necessary or not, gaming and internet culture are such that administrators of websites...especially -huge- communities like Salvation, are going to try to be paragons. They're going to try to represent the best aspects of the community...partially inspired by politicians, doubtless, who always try to present a positive front. This isn't something Ria should be doing. Should he be an admin? From everything I've heard, even from his dissenters, he's definitely suited to the task in most ways. He's a bright, intelligent guy who brings a lot to the team. But for whatever reason, he's fallen off the path. There needs to be something to help him climb back up, and right now, that way doesn't exist.
That's what I mean when I talk about "codifying" ideals with regards to the administrators. You don't get to be an administrator of a website like this without having some serious talents. I would be hard pressed to say that an admin is unfit to be an admin based on his skillset. But there needs to be some way of measuring the admins, so that when they start having trouble, friendly conversations can take place to see if they need a hand, or some time off. I'm not suggesting a rigid codec of rules and laws that must be followed to the letter. I'm merely thinking something closer to a collection of common-sensical notions that would provide a guideline for appropriate behavior.
And as far as the payment stuff goes, in my opinion, things like this happen due to the very nature of volunteer work. People that volunteer to be admins do it because they want to. They actually WANT to do it. I think this fact makes the danger of becoming disillusioned much, much more real. Rather than saying that it's wrong to expect too much because they don't get paid, I think that it's better to say that because they don't get paid, we expect too much....but no more than they expect of themselves.
We may as well work this out now, too, because from what I've seen, the next generation reaching maturity in the 14-18 range is even more idealistic/nihilistic than my generation is. This problem isn't going to get better with time -- the best thing we can do now is to set systems in place to help our admins in the future as they struggle with the same problems that we are now.
I'll close by reiterating: I don't think we need or should even want a strict code that must be followed to the letter. But having a list of rough expectations that admins can be measured up to is probably a good idea -- as long as it is carefully crafted with the intent of helping the admins in mind. It shouldn't become a weapon of the masses, but rather a tool by which struggling admins can be identified and helped before reaching this point. -
Jul 18, 20122
metamorph posted a message on The Gloves Are Coming OffPosted in: Community DiscussionQuote from Archonoid
This is not simply a matter of Gutter vs. Ria. For example, I support the closure of the Gutter. I also support Ria stepping down.
i fall in this category as well. i have never been a member of the gutter and i was in support of it closing. my support for the closure of the gutter had nothing to do with the people in the gutter (i like them, some of them are good friends of mine) and everything to do with the consequences of the Gutter existing on this site.
the amount of conflict and drama that arose between the gutter and certain members of the staff (such as Rianalnn) was an undesirable outcome. the site needs less drama. closing the gutter should lead to less drama. firing Rianalnn should also lead to less drama. -
Jul 8, 20121
UsaSatsui posted a message on Closure of the GutterPosted in: Community DiscussionQuote from teefoYour account is banned today for no reason, be an adult and suck it up, if the staff doesn't want you here there is nothing you can do, and if you don't like it...be an adult and suck it up.
Okay. No problem. I'm not gonna be happy about it, but I'm not going to demand the right to something I don't have. Besides, why do I want to stay in a place I'm not wanted anyway? -
Jun 25, 20123
Kaiterra posted a message on Closure of the GutterI came out strongly against the Gutter with my first post here, because I vehemently disagree with the very concept of the thing. I've seen private sections like the Gutter (or even the Mod Lounge, to be honest) create unnecessary tension in almost every community I've been a part of that had them.Posted in: Community Discussion
But the Gutterites started to sway me as the result of a lot of dirt they brought to light on the administration's side, and what I feel was some poor handling of this issue and others in the past.
But two wrongs mean both sides are wrong. If the Gutterites want any measure of respect from the regular userbase, they are going to need to start giving that same respect instead of continually bashing them. I've found value in a lot of the posts from the Gutterites and their supporters, but at this point I'm sick to death of hearing "you're ignorant" "shut up, the adults are talking" "stop posting," "nothing you say is valid," "you're lying" with no attempt to prove why, etc.
Quote from Teia RabishuWorse, when ignorant people are asked if they have any firsthand experience with the Gutter, they simply defend their ignorance and claim (either implicitly or explicitly) that hearsay should be all they need.
Is this hearsay so far from the truth? After so many accusations of ignorance and talking down to Gutter opponents, telling them to shut up because they didn't know what they were talking about, I applied a couple days ago, so I research the Gutter's content and be sure I had a better idea of the facts.
I read the Gutter somewhat thoroughly after my application was accepted and found a lot of truth and humor within, but it was all permeated by nastiness. Even a lot of the "Let's talk about [set]!" threads were chock full of posts that served no purpose but to mock the regular users of the site. Not always specific users, but the entire community in general. There were several threads dedicated solely to making fun of specific users, whether they had consented/applied to the Gutter or not.
It might not be trolling if they can't see it, but just because the targets of the Gutter's scorn can't see it, doesn't mean it's not bullying and it doesn't mean it's okay for the administration to foster it. For all the accusations of childishness being flung at the Gutter's opponents, for all the charges of hypocrisy, with varying merit, being flung around, the Gutter community really needs to take a step back and consider the virtues of what they are doing when they fight so hard to defend their right to snicker at other people behind their backs, because THAT is truly childish.
I would definitely consider worse that some mods were doing the same thing, commend Kijin and NS for apparently not being a part of it in there, and between this and the Kijin incident have actually come to agree with the calls for Ria to step down, but that in no way excuses such behavior on the Gutter's part, especially if the Gutterites want to think themselves superior to the average user, which is a very common thread among the posts in there and even the posts in here. http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=8595981&postcount=1429 PhantomS' reply here is a perfect example.
I keep hearing Gutterites make claims that "it's just good natured ribbing of each other, we can handle it," which is fine, and I think they should have the right to say whatever they want about each other if that's how they choose to conduct themselves, but this claim ceases to be true the instant that community's contempt is turned on anyone who has not agreed to be a part of their community.
And I know not ALL Gutterites are making the "watchdog" claim, but for the ones that are, it rings extremely hollow when it's come to light that the Gutter's focus has almost entirely been turned on staff members only in situations where the staffer's actions affected a Gutterite or the Gutter itself. I'll admit that in all the examples I've seen where this was the case, the Gutterites were actually in the right, but when it only happens if your homeboys are threatened or the perpetrator was already in your sights due to past personal grievances, then at that point, it's not checks and balances, it's gang warfare, and you should stop wearing it as a feather in your cap. If there are several examples I've missed of it being done on a non-Gutter-member's behalf, then I'll buy the claim, but I've been looking and failing to find any, as much as I want there to be.
I do believe that some Gutterites like NS and Kijin ultimately have mostly good, if not somewhat misguided, intentions and have been outstanding members of the community in the past. I have a soft spot for subversive elements that serve the greater good, even when they don't agree with me. But the more I see from the Gutter in general, the less and less I believe that as a community it's anything of the sort, and the more I feel that it's just an elitist cesspit that serves little purpose but to unite like-minded miscreants in the spirit of nastiness and thumbing your nose at authority, elevating its members above the rest of the community they loathe.
Go ahead, pick apart this post piece by piece, I don't care. I've said my piece and believe everything I said, so outside of lurking, I'm done with this issue now and look forward to the Gutter's closing, or preferably a compromise that lightens the tone and transforms it from a place to roast people its users don't like to a place where people can share irreverent, controversial jokes and good times with each other. It'd even be great if the longest thread on MTGS ever could somehow be kept alive. But the current attitudes being expressed in by most of its defenders are doing a disservice to this possibility or highlight the fact that it is either not something they would accept, or not the real reason they're so attached to the Gutter.
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The thing you call "useless spin-off fillers" would be very interesting to a lot of people and is one of the more likely candidates. What's happening on Theros, Alara, Ixalan during the timeline of the sets for Amonkhet or Ixalan? The events that we see represented in paper sets aren't the only interesting events on the planes.
I also think you're reading too much into one line. The article says they could use iconic Planeswalkers, and give Bolas as an example. They don't say Bolas will definitely be used; they don't even say that the Russo brothers brought up Bolas - that could just be the author of the article naming a planeswalker he knows. Hell, even if it's accurate and they do mean "use Bolas" and they do mean in the present, that could just mean something like "this powerful artifact was created by Nicol Bolas a hundred years ago before the dragon was sealed away".
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You really don't need to be able to cast everything in your deck. You just need a decent chance to cast most things in your deck.
Things this does:
- Bypasses counterspells.
- Gives flash.
- Grants card selection.
- Fixes mana costs.
- Bypasses additional costs.
For all that upside, you get the chance you might whiff. That chance can be lowered by deck construction. And if you don't want that chance at all, topdeck manipulation is quite easy these days, with Scry being evergreen, Surveil being currently in Standard, and a variety of other one-off topdeck tricks existing.
Whether this is highly played will depend on what lives around it, but it certainly seems to have potential.
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The first problem is that "lynching" is not, strictly speaking, a game action that players can take. Players only cast votes.
You could forbid hammering "regardless of alignment", but that doesn't address many situations - if threshold is 7 and the first 6 votes were "regardless of alignment" votes and the last one was a scum read, I don't think that satisfies Osie's concern.
You could forbid voting "regardless of alignment", but that is quite wide and would forbid several actions taken in Mafia games right now:
And there's still a problem with indirect mechanical effects. Simple example: We know there's exactly one cop in the game, X and Y both claim it. A player has no read on either and decides to just vote X, knowing the flip will solve it either way.
Further, this all only really applies to town players. Scum by definition are not trying to figure out alignments. A rule that only applies one way has all kinds of angle-shooty possibilities that are unfortunate.
I think what you want is more like "don't use OOG preference to determine votes." That's more feasible, though you'll still run into confirmation bias. On the one hand, if A doesn't like B, or doesn't like B's playstyle, it's very easy for A to convince themselves that B must be scum.
All rules necessarily have false positives and false negatives, of course, but they're worth considering.
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Edit:
Haste is proportionally better with the existing power of the creature, especially if you're in race mode.
Call the turn you cast the creature "turn 1". For a creature with base power N, it will take until turn N+2 before the counter results in more total damage than the haste.
For a 1/X with Riot, that means the counter delivers more damage by turn 3. Virtually always worth it. But for a 4/X with riot, the counter doesn't fully pay off until turn 6. And remember that "turn 1" is whenever you cast it, so even later in the game.
This is further affected by other effects. Does the creature has an attack trigger? (favors Haste). Does the creature, or something else on your board, have a power-matters effect? (favors +1/+1). Does your opponent have a wall that's just a bit too big? (favors +1/+1). Do you expect your opponent to have sorcery-speed removal? (favors Haste).
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I think the Legend is quite exciting and I'll be happy every time I pull it. 4 for a 4/4 with a potential cantrip, a board effect, and the opportunity to become an 8/8 trample? That's great.
It also obviously depends on what format you expect to play. Modern? Legacy? No, that legend isn't going to do anything interesting in the format. And Adapt, as a mechanic, isn't the kind of thing that is prone to generating outsize value in those formats. But I'm a Limited player, and from that perspective Adapt is quite interesting.
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They're not literally purely exclusive... but if someone tells me "my hobby is swimming" I would be pretty surprised if they then tell me they're an Olympic athlete. Or even a national competitor.
At the same time, I certainly understand not wanting things to skew [even more] towards those who can afford things. Setting hobbies vs. non-hobbies aside, that's a reasonable goal in general for pretty much everything in society. But looking in that context, the question isn't "are UMA boxes good EV?", it's "will the UMA printing raise or lower the [overall/median/average/minimum] cost to play Magic?".
There is a hypothetical where all or most UMA boxes are bad
EVactual value, and a bunch of people buy them and don't get "their money's worth", but the increase in supply of those singles generally makes deck construction slightly more affordable for everyone else. Essentially, the "whales" able to justify "throwing away money" on "bad" UMA would be subsidizing the game for others who might not have as much disposable income. Will that be the case in reality? No idea. But it's an interesting hypothetical, I think.Edit: Corrected terminology.
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First, combat damage happens. The Acidic Slime just dies. Simultaneously, lethal damage is dealt to Daxus, which would normally destroy it - that destruction is replaced by a destruction of the Aura.
The Acidic Slime and the Totem Armor Aura go to their respective graveyards. Then Yoke of the Damned triggers. By the time that triggered ability resolves, the Totem Armor is long gone.