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  • posted a message on Death in the Family - Night 2 - Ignazio Ignited
    Quote from RE1031 »
    Quote from Sir Chris »
    RE seems to be trying to solve. In my previous experience with scum RE they don't do that much. Light lean mind you.
    Who are you?
    "I'm here" doesn't answer whether you're going to vote.
    Saying that I would vote Anak over Osie does though, no?
    Okay let me be more explicit.

    Please vote Anak now, I don't want a down-to-the-wire oopsie.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Death in the Family - Night 2 - Ignazio Ignited
    Quote from Vaimes »

    I'm pretty fluid with my not-townreads. If someone else is pushing them, I'll go along with it. I don't consider that sheeping because I have my own reasons for wanting player xyz lynched; for it to be a sheep, I'd have to only be lynching them because of reasons other players have given.
    Okay, so where do you express those reasons? If you're saying that you just have reasons in your head and you haven't posted them in the thread, that's not convincing.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Death in the Family - Night 2 - Ignazio Ignited
    "I'm here" doesn't answer whether you're going to vote.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Death in the Family - Night 2 - Ignazio Ignited
    3hrs. RE, are you going to actually vote or are you just talking about it?
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Death in the Family - Night 2 - Ignazio Ignited
    What does "accountability for an interaction" mean?
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on The Mafia Council & Helpdesk Thread
    Osie, while I can understand that perspective on policy kills, and your frustration with the idea makes sense given that definition, I don't think that's a universal definition of the term. That's certainly not how I, at least, would interpret the term, or what I would mean with the term.

    A good example is "lynch all liars". I would absolutely describe that as a policy kill, but it's not because liars make the game unenjoyable - without liars, there wouldn't be a Mafia game! It's a "policy" because of the theory that doing it consistently over multiple games increases town win rate, even if it's not necessarily the optimal move in a single game. I think multiple "policies" are built on that premise - "if we do this consistently, and it is known that we do this consistently, it will increase town win rate".

    The kind of policy kill you're talking about certainly exists, but I don't think it's the only kind.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Death in the Family - Night 2 - Ignazio Ignited
    Oh *****. I thought Anak was still K-1.

    vote Anak
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Death in the Family - Night 2 - Ignazio Ignited
    Going to give Vaimes a bit of time to respond - beyond that, is there any reason not to hammer?
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Death in the Family - Night 2 - Ignazio Ignited
    Quote from Vaimes »
    Quote from Vaimes »
    I'm convinced Kami doesn't actually know what a sheep vote is.
    Unpacking this: You're saying I'm using terminology incorrectly, using that to implicitly shade my play, and implicitly dismiss my suspicion of your actions. You don't actually address the problem with your actions and why I dislike them.

    Please readdress this directly.
    This isn’t the first time you’ve said I’m sheeping, and it isn’t the first time I’ve said “that is incorrect.” How are you going to shade me and then say I’m shading you?

    What is your definition of sheeping? Maybe I’m misunderstanding you, because I haven’t sheeped anyone or anything.
    Sure, this is what I'm seeing that I am calling "sheeping": voting X with little or no explanation, specifically when X just got wagon traction or just got votes from another source, and especially when your justification adds up to "I agree with what others say".

    2304: Your vote on Anak as the Anak wagon gets rolling (explicitly a "those other people are right" vote)
    2019: Your vote on Osie following Tom's 2011.
    1891: Your vote on Tom following Grapefruit's 1888.
    1077: Your vote on Rhand as the Rhand wagon gets rolling.
    440: Your vote on EtR following my own 426.
    362: Your vote on LnGrrr following Tau's 359 (in this one you explicitly call it a sheep!)

    You only have a couple of votes that don't follow this pattern. Your #1802 (still almost no explanation, but at least it's not following anyone or on an existing wagon); and your #312 and #314 at the very start of the game, which are the best votes you've had.

    I dislike this because you're not pushing your own thoughts on these votes. You're just going with what's happening. You have posts in between that look like analysis but they don't seem connected to your actual voting.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Death in the Family - Night 2 - Ignazio Ignited
    Quote from Vaimes »
    I'm convinced Kami doesn't actually know what a sheep vote is.
    Unpacking this: You're saying I'm using terminology incorrectly, using that to implicitly shade my play, and implicitly dismiss my suspicion of your actions. You don't actually address the problem with your actions and why I dislike them.

    Please readdress this directly.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Death in the Family - Night 2 - Ignazio Ignited
    Ah, got it. I was misreading #2336 to be a scumlist, but it's just "who should you reread" list. Then you do have tom in townlist later. Never mind.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Death in the Family - Night 2 - Ignazio Ignited
    Chris: How do you square a scum!anak read with a scum!tom read? Yes, bussing exists - but do you think their interactions specifically have been a likely situation for bussing, and why? Do you see anything in the posts that points to them being bus/distancing?
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Death in the Family - Night 2 - Ignazio Ignited
    *except about chris
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Death in the Family - Night 2 - Ignazio Ignited
    Quote from osieorb18 »
    Associatives for future reference. The obvious ones:
    town!Osie -> town!Chris (major force in turning the wagon away here)
    scum!anak -> town!tom (on Mind/Anak much of the game)

    More speculative:
    scum!anak -?> town!Chris (without the push against Osie, Anak would live today)
    scum!Osie -?> town!tom (lighter than the anak-tom connection because this feels more plausibly like it could be distance/bus)

    town!anak -??> scum!tom (Very light - town/town conflict is quite plausible here, but certainly it doesn't make Tom look better.)


    Eww. This excludes so many perfectly possible and reasonable worlds.

    And Anak flipping scum in no way clears Tom.
    Which worlds am I excluding?

    Do you mean associatives I didn't cover? This wasn't meant to be an exhaustive list of possibilities, just the ones that give associatives I've already seen. For example, town!Osie doesn't immediately say anything, even about Tom (less so than town!anak, IMO).
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Death in the Family - Night 2 - Ignazio Ignited
    @Chris: What is your opinion on Osie's hypothesis of the "car salesman"? I called it out in #2160 and never got a satisfactory answer, and others mentioned it and didn't get answers either. Quoting from my 2160:

    Osie:

    But the Tau-town-tinfoil is that could see it being the case that EtR pulled a car salesman on Tau and made them decide that they wanted to buy into the car/gambit. A similar, more likely possibility is that scum!Tau suggested the Gambit as if they were town and EtR bought into it.

    How can EtR pull a car salesman on Tau when, by both of their accounts, EtR didn't post anything in the pre-game thread?

    How can Tau suggest that gambit "as if they were town"? The gambit literally involves claiming scum in the pre-game thread.
    Posted in: Mafia
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