Quote from DirkGentlyThat said, your argument could just as easily say that sol ring and mana crypt should be banned. Really, with both of those banned TA starts to look a lot more acceptable since there aren't many 0 drop artifacts that are popular in EDH, and 1 drops that don't produce mana don't really let TA ramp up much faster than cradle.
I'm just saying, if you take sol ring and mana crypt out of the equation (and let's say mana vault too), it's a lot harder to come up with a realistic situation that results in getting way above the curve earlier than turn 3-4 or so
Quote from Raining Frogssounds like magical christmas land to me, getting your two best one drop artifacts in your deck in your hand.
Quote from Raining FrogsThe problem with TA in EDH specifically is you need to load your deck with random crap in order to get it to function properly, it is at best a one-hit wonder, you get it one game and stomp because you got the nuts draw, or you get flooded with nothing but mana rocks and useless low drop artifacts and die horrifically.
Quote from Raining FrogsWith GC on the other hand you have a card that benefits from playing the best/most abusable resource in the game, creatures and you don't need some theoretical god hand to crap out large boardstates by turn 4.
T1: Land, Birds of Paradise
T2: Land, Elvish Visionary, draw a card
T3: Cradle, tap birds + other lands for Wood Elves, grab an untapped forest, tap untapped forest + cradle for 4, play Oracle of Mul Daya, drop another land
T4: Land (5 + cradle now), tap non-cradle lands + birds for Prosh, Skyraider of Kher, get 6 tokens, tap cradle for 12
Quote from Raining FrogsGaea's cradle doesn't rely on god hands or one-trick pony deckbuilding habits, it is reliably just obscenely freaking good.
Quote from SchondettaQuote from fzianProducing lots of mana in long games is perfectly fine with the RC (and to many players, I suspect). It is the anti-climatic (or rather, aclimatic(?)) production of lots of mana during the early games that made Tolarian Academy banned.same argument can be made for cradle lol
Quote from fzianProducing lots of mana in long games is perfectly fine with the RC (and to many players, I suspect). It is the anti-climatic (or rather, aclimatic(?)) production of lots of mana during the early games that made Tolarian Academy banned.
Quote from Raining FrogsArtifacts may be faster and more explosive than creatures but dudes will win the long game because they are individually far more valuable.
Quote from Raining FrogsProsh, Skyraider of Kher
I've won by turn 4 several times now just by ramping into prosh and dropping cradle to cast/use Collective Unconscious / Skullclamp / Survival of the Fittest / Food Chain
Quote from Raining Frogseven without prosh you still have Avenger of Zendikar, Rampaging Baloths, Ant Queen, Hornet Queen, Beacon of Creation, Howl of the Nightpack, Genesis Chamber etc. etc. to fuel Cradle's insanity.
Cradle dropping early has caused more scoops / rage quits in my group than any other card
Quote from MRHblueA bunch of opinion backed up by nothing. Creatures get wiped all the time, what would color identity have to do with either? If anything artifacts are better because they are colorless and lots of them make more than one mana.
TA is banned because it is much faster earlier and is less susceptible to common board wipes.
Quote from JuwdahWhy are so many people suspended?
I see Jivan, Monkmiroro-whatshisname and that new Mimeo primer guy suspended.
What's up? Isn't there a thread to see the reasons behind those suspends and bans? I always liked looking at that but could never find it back.
Quote from Donald@fzian: Maybe you should take something for that cold of yours.:p
Quote from KrevokI wish I wouldn't have voted as early, as mine feels wasted on Vernal Bloom now.
Quote from DonaldI'm not saying it's bad just that it's not as good as Nature's Claim due to costing twice as much for an effect that might be better (and possibly worse). There's a few niche applications such as Karn and indestructibles but this isn't enough for me to double the mana cost.
Quote from LonkOn the whole Nature’s Claim debate, lowering the removal costs to make them more relevant is a definite thing that's going to continue to expand as more metas start running resource denial, Torpor Orb and Humility to cut back and counter all the top-heavy DEN, and ETB abuse lists. As someone with decks playing on both sides of that conflict, I'm finding I'm running both because both are versatile and relatively cheap. I haven't had occasion to care about the tuck effect on Deglamer yet, the Theros gods haven't taken off with the gusto everyone thought they might. I've definitely found situations where I appreciated the cheap cost of Nature's Claim though. No one expects you to do anything with a single green open. Actually though, I don't know I've I think of either of these as Top 50 cards. The strength of a straight up Naturalize effect seems really situational, more so even than Vernal Bloom or Greater Good, without the extra gravy Krosan Grip provides.
Quote from Ryujin...If you can pay 7 to play Tooth and Nail you can pay one more mana to tuck an enchantment.
....You can not tutor Nature's Claim either.
Quote from scoeriBTW, for your information: Here are the creature/non-creature splits for all the top 50s of all the colors in the the statistical breakdown. The 20/30 split for blue might be ok, but maybe we need to rethink the 30/20 split for green. White is actually the only color that plays more creatures than non-creature spells.
Quote from RyujinIt is niche, but if people want to replace it they should come up with something better than Nature's Claim imo.
Quote from xlichWelp. That sucks. Real bad.
Hmm.. Are there any real ways to stop it then?