Ive been looking for a few good things to cram into a select few spots, that I've been covering in a few of of my posts, Sorin can be incredibly strong, but he can also be weak, I've actually won a game of two with him and Ajani playing walker control. But he certainly has his weak moments
not a problem, and reading over some of your suggestions brought alot of things to light, that i probably could change, I'll touch on my feelings towards some cards that you mentioned, as well as why I'm not running certain ones.
Hi. As a longtime Kaalia player(with a fully comprehensive 1v1 Primer in my sig) I have a few questions for you that I got almost immediately while scrolling your list.
1) As someone else alluded to, where are your mana rocks? That's one of the most powerful ways to break the symmetry of your 'Geddons. They also should be here to accelerate you to a turn 3 Kaalia.
I used to run the Manarock method of trying to run her down peoples throats, and it worked, very well. BUT. My Meta adapted to the new rush really quickly. so I slowed the deck down by maybe a turn, in favor of making sure, Kaalia WILL hit the table, and WILL be swinging at you through means of things like my greaves, Grand Abolisher and Cavern, and as you see from my list, there are PLENTY of tutors to get them. The 'Geddon plan can get a little rough, but if I head for that plan, ill generally hold a land or two back anyway to prepare.
2) Painful Quandary? Really? It feels weird to be playing such a jank card side-by-side a Moat and an Imperial Seal(unless this is on MODO where Moat is only like $3.50).
I get this one alot, because yes this is a paper deck, so when I have things like a Seal, a Moat and a Grim Tutor, then drop a Quandary I'll tend to get some eyebrows. the card is actually very in most all the games I see it in, because it makes people start to question plays and if they decide to power through it and Lava Axe themselves, it just makes things that much easier. and if they discard down, less cards for me to worry about.
Austere Command is there for when i need to be a bit more selective with my nuking instead of a whole board reset. I'm inclined to agree with you on Vengeace though. which I'll probably be swapping out for a Cataclysm.
4) I would play Diabolic Tutor before I played Beseech the Queen. 2BB vs BBB(that could still very well be 2BB and I have to reveal the card?) Yeah, no thanks. I'd even wager a guess I might even play the new one Diabolic Revelation over Beseech.
Beseech has been in there forever, and honestly, something i just keep overlooking when it comes time to cut out for newer cards. probably going to swap it for something different fairly soon.
5) How much value can you really get out of Yawgmoth's Win in a deck with these kinds of mana costs? I <3 the card to death, but I do not believe it is the proper card for this archetype.
Ive actually gotten quite a bit of Value out of my Wills.
Linvala looks fine on paper, but unless your metagame only ever plays with decks like Captain Sisay and Arcum Daggson, she won't get as much mileage as you'd expect. I cut her from my own list over six months ago, and I've never wished I could ever draw her again. She was just a 3/4 flyer for 2WW. Not the most impressive of stats, tbh.
How often do you expect to rez Eternal Dragon anyway? You'd probably be better served by Tithe, which will find you two Plains duals. In order for Dragon to do that, it'll cost you 2 + 3WW + 2 = 7WW. Who is your opponent that is letting you get away with that kind of investment without any disruption anyway? Because I'd love to play against them haha. His art is awesome though, but yeah, I cut his arse almost a year ago after I crunched the numbers like that.
Admonition and Bogardan are both weak for what you get, and you would probably be better served by Baneslayer Angel and a Thundermaw Hellkite. Both of these critters are fantastic and have the added benefit of being castable if for some reason you don't have access to Kaalia.
The Akromas...man, how I hate thee so. Eight mana and they only bash for six? And they don't even do anything good, or disrupt your opponent either. I'd rather slot in Blinding Angel and Nefarox, Overlord of Grixis here.
Adarkar Valkyrie is an alright choice, tbh, though it can be a bit slow. I certainly wouldn't fault anyone for playing it though(and is the best card I mentioned in that list).
E Dragon is leaving for Tithe, for some reason i thought it was banned? idk, but thats a change. Adarkar Valkyrie has been a lifesaver and its just fun kill then steal some things. White Akroma I can give a little on, but Red Akroma is an good one for my meta with her Uncounterable ability. Admontiton has been useful, especially when you hook her up with shoes. but i do agree there are probably better things than her. Hellkite is out for the Thundermaw as soon as i get my hands on one. Finally, Linvala has saved me from dying or someone from going nuts on more than one occasion, shes just a saftey valve for now, when i find something better she'll be out the door.
7) You might find more utility in Sword of Light and Shadow over Sword of Fire and Ice, as with a sac outlet SoLaS allows you to use Kaalia to "Yosei Lock" an opponent. With only three equipments and all these tutours already, you might not even need Stoneforge Mystic.
8) Where is your Defense Grid? You have Grand Abolisher and that is half of it...but you need the other half of it to keep people off of your turn.
a good majority of the decks in my meta that I run against run Manadoublers.. lots of them, to the point that a Defense Grid isn't even an issue for them anymore.
I can see you only have two fetchlands, which tells me you're probably in the process of acquiring the rest so I will leave that alone right now. How often do you actually use the 2 from Ancient Tomb anyway? Sometimes it may add up to not being worth it.
Mine will go in for Ruin, People like to take my stuff, so I like to keep Homeward Path as a way to take it all back. Spinerock works quite well for what its supposed to do, as hitting for 7 isnt exactly hard when Kaalia is on the table. Stronghold was on my radar for a while, as was tower and both of those just slid off when more pressing cards came to mind and i forgot to go back to them lol. as for Fetches, I Have 3 of them in the deck currently, putting in one of my Tarns, and I've been lazy with getting the rest of them.
10) Necropotence's BBB requirement may prove hard to hit, even with this kind of amazing colour fixing. You might consider Phyrexian Arena instead.
look over the list again, you missed my Arena
11) And finally, you need some way to cheat fatties onto the board should you be denied access to Kaalia(which will happen eventually as you don't have any targeted discard to make sure the coast is clear). Quicksilver Amulet is a fantastic option for this purpose.
I don't run Amulet because honestly, I'm just not a fan of the card at all lol.
Whew. Sorry for going all long-winded, hopefully I'm not coming off as a condescending arse, haha. Anyway, take a look at my Primer and any questions/comments/concerns about either my Primer or my suggestions for your list I'd be more than happy to discuss further as to why I feel the way that I do.
No worries, like i said i posted this list to get comments/criticisms to make the list better, so i appreciate the Input.
Rakdos Question answered, as for the questions about Feast & Famine and the other cards.
I used to run Feast and Famine in the list and it never got very far for me, I would either kill the relevant threats or they would have something ready for the sword when I would be about to go off via Hellkite Charger, tbh is never even thought about aggravated assault so when I cut the charger I replaced the sword, I'm going to have to think about that one. And as for your cards you were curious about Tristan, ill go into more depth when I'm not posting off my Cell Phone haha
This is my Kaalia EDH Deck in its current final form, its been a pet project for almost a year now and I've finally got it to where I'm liking it, as always, comments/criticisms are always welcome. deck is a little dirtier than normal due to the hostile EDH environment it was created for.
This is the list, as you can tell, its goal is to tutor up a method of protection and a wincon to put the opponent on the back foot early, all i need is one or two swings with and early Kaalia to lock up the game, like most builds the deck is hinged on her, but it is fully capable of winning without her hitting the table (and has done so many times). Savage Beating is a card that can be absolutely backbreaking if enough creatures are out, or your connecting with a Rakdos to just annihilate their board completely.
So, with the rise of the Delver decks everywhere, and loading up on a million other 1 toughness critters, with the success of Gut Shot, Marrow Shards is looking more and more appealing. anyone feeling any merit to packing this card into their sideboards?
Kaalia of the Vast has become my pet deck ever since I saw the precons. my store has a very wide range of EDH people, from the people who play it with 100 card piles to combo players that can regularly win as soon as turn 5. 1v1 the deck is nearly unstoppable unless you hit disruption early. but in Multiplayer it plays well with politics and is just a fun time.
current list I've been playtesting. Its furiously aggressive, and has a bit of reach to it, the Warzones are a recent addition that I'll probably drop out, but i figured with how fast this deck can get damage in it would be worth at least trying, also thinking about Reckless Waif over Ghoul, but wanting to play a critter every turn seems counter intuitive to that plan. playing against Solar Flare or Heartless Variants its almost just too fast for them, I've outraced turn 2 Double Superion with techy blocking and just bashing in. SB is a WiP, let me know what you think!
I for one love constructive criticism which is why i put my decklists on the chopping block for stuff like this. this list has proven to be very strong 1v1, and has gotten a bit more resilient in Multiplayer this is the decklist as it stands, Post INN rotation after a decent amount of testing.
this is the deck in its current iteration, there are a few cards on the chopping block right now that need to be looked at a little closer to tighten the list up a bit, possibly a bit more Punishment to scare people from touching Kaalia or anything else i play. otherwise the list works more than solidly for my Meta, but being the DB I am when i play this deck, i wanna make it MUCH more cuthroat but hey, at least I know I'm that douche right? lol
posted this in the other thread you have running, and since my Kaalia list plays more 1v1 than she does in Multiplayer. would love to hear some constructed criticism about the list I'm running
I for one love constructive criticism which is why i put my decklists on the chopping block for stuff like this. this list has proven to be very strong 1v1, and has gotten a bit more resilient in Multiplayer this is the decklist as it stands, Post INN rotation after a decent amount of testing.
this is the deck in its current iteration, there are a few cards on the chopping block right now that need to be looked at a little closer to tighten the list up a bit, possibly a bit more Punishment to scare people from touching Kaalia or anything else i play. otherwise the list works more than solidly for my Meta, but being the DB I am when i play this deck, i wanna make it MUCH more cuthroat but hey, at least I know I'm that douche right? lol
Vampires look okay on their own, but in a mono red aggro style deck things could get out of hand really quickly playing it right, also, anyone else see that picture and flavor text and just think it SCREAMS Lestat from Interview with a Vampire?
im surprised no one has brought up Path to Exile as the foreshadowing for the RFG zone being renamed. kind of along the same lines as Thrun and Troll-Shroud
I used to run the Manarock method of trying to run her down peoples throats, and it worked, very well. BUT. My Meta adapted to the new rush really quickly. so I slowed the deck down by maybe a turn, in favor of making sure, Kaalia WILL hit the table, and WILL be swinging at you through means of things like my greaves, Grand Abolisher and Cavern, and as you see from my list, there are PLENTY of tutors to get them. The 'Geddon plan can get a little rough, but if I head for that plan, ill generally hold a land or two back anyway to prepare.
I get this one alot, because yes this is a paper deck, so when I have things like a Seal, a Moat and a Grim Tutor, then drop a Quandary I'll tend to get some eyebrows. the card is actually very in most all the games I see it in, because it makes people start to question plays and if they decide to power through it and Lava Axe themselves, it just makes things that much easier. and if they discard down, less cards for me to worry about.
Austere Command is there for when i need to be a bit more selective with my nuking instead of a whole board reset. I'm inclined to agree with you on Vengeace though. which I'll probably be swapping out for a Cataclysm.
Beseech has been in there forever, and honestly, something i just keep overlooking when it comes time to cut out for newer cards. probably going to swap it for something different fairly soon.
Ive actually gotten quite a bit of Value out of my Wills.
E Dragon is leaving for Tithe, for some reason i thought it was banned? idk, but thats a change. Adarkar Valkyrie has been a lifesaver and its just fun kill then steal some things. White Akroma I can give a little on, but Red Akroma is an good one for my meta with her Uncounterable ability. Admontiton has been useful, especially when you hook her up with shoes. but i do agree there are probably better things than her. Hellkite is out for the Thundermaw as soon as i get my hands on one. Finally, Linvala has saved me from dying or someone from going nuts on more than one occasion, shes just a saftey valve for now, when i find something better she'll be out the door.
7) You might find more utility in Sword of Light and Shadow over Sword of Fire and Ice, as with a sac outlet SoLaS allows you to use Kaalia to "Yosei Lock" an opponent. With only three equipments and all these tutours already, you might not even need Stoneforge Mystic.
a good majority of the decks in my meta that I run against run Manadoublers.. lots of them, to the point that a Defense Grid isn't even an issue for them anymore.
Mine will go in for Ruin, People like to take my stuff, so I like to keep Homeward Path as a way to take it all back. Spinerock works quite well for what its supposed to do, as hitting for 7 isnt exactly hard when Kaalia is on the table. Stronghold was on my radar for a while, as was tower and both of those just slid off when more pressing cards came to mind and i forgot to go back to them lol. as for Fetches, I Have 3 of them in the deck currently, putting in one of my Tarns, and I've been lazy with getting the rest of them.
look over the list again, you missed my Arena
I don't run Amulet because honestly, I'm just not a fan of the card at all lol.
No worries, like i said i posted this list to get comments/criticisms to make the list better, so i appreciate the Input.
I used to run Feast and Famine in the list and it never got very far for me, I would either kill the relevant threats or they would have something ready for the sword when I would be about to go off via Hellkite Charger, tbh is never even thought about aggravated assault so when I cut the charger I replaced the sword, I'm going to have to think about that one. And as for your cards you were curious about Tristan, ill go into more depth when I'm not posting off my Cell Phone haha
now for the list.. here we go!
General:
1x Kaalia of the Vast
Angels:
1x Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1x Akroma, Angel of Fury
1x Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1x Adarkar Valkyrie
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Angel of Despair
1x Admonition Angel
1x Karmic Guide
1x Gisela, Blade of Goldknight
1x Avacyn, Angel of Hope
Demons:
1x Rakdos the Defiler
1x Bloodgift Demon
1x Rune-scarred Demon
Dragons:
1x Steel Hellkite
1x Bogardan Hellkite
1x Balefire Dragon
1x Yosei, the Morning Star
1x Hoard-Smelter Dragon
Utility Critters:
1x Grand Abolisher
1x Stoneforge Mystic
Planeswalkers:
1x Liliana Vess
1x Ajani Vengeant
Instants:
1x Mortify
1x Path to Exile
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Savage Beating
1x Vampric Tutor
1x Oblation
1x Return to Dust
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Chaos Warp
1x Tithe
1x Increasing Ambition
1x Austere Command
1x Akroma's Vengeance
1x Terminus
1x Mind Twist
1x Beseech the Queen
1x Grim Tutor
1x Armageddon
1x Ravages of War
1x Imperial Seal
1x Vindicate
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Wheel of Fortune
1x Diabolic Tutor
1x Catastrophe
Enchantments:
1x Moat
1x Painful Quandary
1x Phyrexian Arena
1x Ghostly Prison
1x War's Toll
Arifacts:
1x Sol Ring
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Expedition Map
1x Scroll Rack
1x Swiftfoot Boots
1x Sensei's Diving Top
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
Lands:
1x Caves of Koilos
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Clifftop Retreat
1x Graven Cairns
1x Battlefield Forge
1x Rugged Prairie
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Mystifying Maze
1x Fetid Heath
1x Phyrexian Tower
1x Godless Shrine
1x Command Tower
1x Scrubland
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Plateau
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Badlands
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Dragonskull Summit
1x Isolated Chapel
1x Sulfurous Springs
1x Tectonic Edge
1x Arid Mesa
1x Maze of Ith
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Homeward Path
1x Vault of the Archangel
1x Marsh Flats
1x Hall of the Bandit Lord
1x Blood Crypt
1x High Market
2x Plains
2x Swamp
1x Mountain
This is the list, as you can tell, its goal is to tutor up a method of protection and a wincon to put the opponent on the back foot early, all i need is one or two swings with and early Kaalia to lock up the game, like most builds the deck is hinged on her, but it is fully capable of winning without her hitting the table (and has done so many times). Savage Beating is a card that can be absolutely backbreaking if enough creatures are out, or your connecting with a Rakdos to just annihilate their board completely.
Changelog:
-1 Martyr's Bond
-1 Sorin Markov
-1 Necropotence
-1 Eternal Dragon
-1 Spinerock Knoll
-1 Ghost Quarter
+1 Catastrophe
+1 Tithe
+1 Volrath's Stronghold
+1 Phyrexian Tower
+1 War's Toll
+1 Diabolic Tutor
4 Diregraf Ghoul
4 Vampire Interloper
4 Rakish Heir
4 Bloodline Keeper
4 Falkenrath Marauder
4 Bump in the Night
4 Go for the Throat
4 Dragonskull
4 Blackcleave
2 Stensia Bloodhall
2 Contested Warzone
6 Swamp
6 Mountain
current list I've been playtesting. Its furiously aggressive, and has a bit of reach to it, the Warzones are a recent addition that I'll probably drop out, but i figured with how fast this deck can get damage in it would be worth at least trying, also thinking about Reckless Waif over Ghoul, but wanting to play a critter every turn seems counter intuitive to that plan. playing against Solar Flare or Heartless Variants its almost just too fast for them, I've outraced turn 2 Double Superion with techy blocking and just bashing in. SB is a WiP, let me know what you think!
posted this in the other thread you have running, and since my Kaalia list plays more 1v1 than she does in Multiplayer. would love to hear some constructed criticism about the list I'm running
this is the deck in its current iteration, there are a few cards on the chopping block right now that need to be looked at a little closer to tighten the list up a bit, possibly a bit more Punishment to scare people from touching Kaalia or anything else i play. otherwise the list works more than solidly for my Meta, but being the DB I am when i play this deck, i wanna make it MUCH more cuthroat but hey, at least I know I'm that douche right? lol