What do you guys think of this list? http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=5041&d=229075 It's not very recent but it seems like a combination of what most of us want. I think someone suggested running Elspeth as a 1 of. Maybe it could work? The only change that I would probably make is cutting the 3rd cryptic for the 3rd electrolyze. Overall, the deck looks pretty solid imo.
While it's true that you see Tusk in some RG Tron lists, I'm pretty sure it's wrong. Batterskull is about as good (better in my opinion) and you can find it with ancient stirrings. Wurmcoil is much better IMO, the one extra cost isn't that relevant in tron, and you can dig it up with both stirrings and eye of ugin.
I won't speak to the entirety of modern, but I'm pretty confident you shouldn't play tusk in Tron.
I agree with what you say. I actually don't like the idea of using Tusk in Modern. I only said that because there are stubborn players that will insist in playing that card even if there are better options. And Tron is one of the decks that could easily cast it.
To be fair, you might see a copy of Thragtusk in Green base Tron decks because the deck can generate a lot of mana. It could have a slot in Pod decks as a sideboard card but that is because they can cheat it into play. But if you are going to play fair and cast it from your hand there are a lot of better choices. This is why cards like Batterskull, Thundermaw Hellkite or even Baneslayer are used over Thragtusk. They have a better impact on the board.
Yes. I also agree that it is possible to drop the land count to 24 if you max out remands and cut some of your 4 drops. I know it is alright to reach 6-7 lands in a game but there were a lot of instances where I have a Geist in play, but couldn't end the game because I kept drawing blanks. I think another solution to this problem is using Izzet Charms. It counters and we can cycle away unneeded lands.
To be honest, fetchlands only increases your chance of drawing a non-land card by a bit but I get the point that it is alright to flood because we have Celestial Colonade. Maybe I'll try with 24 lands and see where this goes. It is just frustrating when you start with 1-2 threats, your opponents managed to answer them and all you draw for the rest of the game are spells and lands. I find it a bit weird because I got used to the tempo deck that do not run a lot of lands, plays a lot of cantrips and a reasonable amount of creatures. But I guess that doesn't exist in this format because the good card draws are banned.
Am I the only person who's noticing this.. The deck tends to flood a lot of lands. What do you guys think of cutting some lands and adding 1 mana cantrips. I know we don't have good cards like Ponder, but Serum Vision seems like something worth trying.
I'm trying to get into Modern, and this deck sounds really fun to play. Is it a difficult deck to pilot though?
I've been playing Jund, Domri Naya and Naya Blitz in Standard and usually have no issues choosing the right line of play, as far as I believe.
It's a bit trickier than your average aggro / midrange deck in standard. You don't run a lot of creatures in UWR, so you need to out tempo your opponent. It runs like the UWR Geist deck in standard, but has access to cheap removal and playable counterspells.
The deck is very flexible and doesn't have a lot of bad matchups, but it is not that forgiving with mistakes.
Here is my latest deck. Im curious why people do not like to play Restoration Angel. It has set up many situation where I have saved a creature or reiterated a coming into battlefield effect. It also is big enough to survive a bolt/helix and swings for 3.
Because Restoration Angel doesn't do much and is usually a 3/4 flyer for 4 mana. I know it blinks your cliques and snapcasters but I'd rather play cards that are good on its own and doesn't need other cards to make it better. At least for my case, I run Cryptics in the deck and I don't want to clog up the 4 drop so I dropped Restos in favor of Mindcensors and Thundermaws
I also asked earlier about Elspeth and It was recommended to use Ajani instead but no real reason was given. I LOVE Elspeth because she turns anything I have into a bigger threat as well as creating soldiers to turn into big threats. It just seems in the tempo game that it is the better Planeswalker and I feel Ajani is better for controlling versions.
Tbh, I never liked adding PWs in a tempo deck, but I think most players prefer Ajani because it is easier to cast and is much more flexible that Elspeth.
i think that not having a spot for a big threat (or a big avdantage making card, like sphinx's i.e.) will make the deck too less threathening and powerful. With just remands and such i am not able to win games. I control them for the first turns, then i finish removals, and they start to hit me.
It really depends on how you would like to play the deck. Here are the things that I would drop from your list.. 2 Spell Snare and 1 Sphinx's Rev. If you're not that in a hurry to kill them and want to play a bit controlling, I would go with 3 Remand, 2 Mana Leak, 2 Cryptic Command and 2 Izzet Charm. I'll probably add a Baneslayer or a Thundermaw Hellkite if there are a lot of Lingering Souls in your area.
If you want to play aggressively, 4x Remand, 2-3 Cryptics should be enough. Just make sure you add some more cheap threats so you can constantly apply pressure.
i run 26 of them and i screw. i know it's crazy but i get stuck to the third land for 3-4 draws with a cryptic in hand or a snapcaster in hand waiting to flashback that sweet mana leak i have in my gy. I tried every possible shuffling, there is no way. it's just a problem of mine i think, since i see you guy have no problems. maybe it's a manabase thing? here are my 26 lands:
i am REALLY thinking about going down to 25 since i want another spell so badly. I will take out a tectonic edge from this list. the filter land is just SO useful when you run 2x cryptic command MB and 2x wrath of god SB.
this is the usual part of the deck, seems solid, so it's gonna stay i think. There are 2 slots that just are variable. I used to run restoration angel in them, but yeah, everybody is giving up on her and i can understand why since i don't feel her to be as effective as before. I tried Aven Mindcensor and i have been so disappointed. Now i am thinking of going 2x ajani vengeant but i really fear the deck is gonna be heavy and that 25 lands are just too few for 2x cryptics, 2x ajani and batterskull. another idea was to go 1x sphinx's revelationand 1 more light counter like remand or maybe izzet charm, or even an artifact like isochron scepter.. which build would you suggest?
I think 25 lands is the right number, but with what you are running, you probably need to play with 26 lands because your curve is pretty high. Before you add Ajani V, I would consider adding the 3rd Clique. I know it's legendary but it dies pretty quickly, so having multiples is alright. It also goes well with the tempo plan and makes Remand a lot better.
What do you guys think on Spell Pierce? It feels solid when the deck is pretty good with killing creatures aside from goyf. It protects our guys from removal and helps you with the counter war when you are running cryptics in the deck.
I think i could get away with playing 24 lands, specially if i add another cheap spell, like a 3rd copy of snare.
Thanks for sharing the list. The build seems more controlling and is threat light. Have you ever considered adding more creatures to put some more pressure? How's it doing for you?
So, on the matter of lands, how many do people here run? and how high is your curve/average cmc?
I started at 24, but after a few screws decided to go to 25. It feels good and i dont really have complaints, but if possible i would like to go back to 24 and add one more spell, just for the sake of efficiency.
Thoughts?
I think it really depends on the curve of your deck. If you run several cryptics you probably need to bump it up to 25.
Firstof all, no, he doesnt really do his job vs scapeshift, contrary to popular beleif, simply because shify runs bolt, and remand, so they can easily get rid of him while they try to combo. Specially if they know they are playing agaisnt uwr, since hes predictable.
I would prefer a counterflux vs scapeshift any day.
On the matter of GY hate, it doesnt just cover reanimator and living end strategies. Think about how much you use your GY with snapcaster, or jund/ junk use it with goyf, shaman and sometimes KOtR, and you will understand.
Making shaman a 1/2, and goyf a 0/1 really wins games.
I used to run relic, but found it wasnt enough and was too easy to play around.
In the end i decided to run RIP and just side out tiago when i need to shut down the yard, like in the mirror, against melira pod, or jund/junk. The strategy has worked so far, specially since not many people see it coming.
Hmm, I like the idea of cutting snaps and boarding in RIP against those decks. Do you have a list that I can refer to? I still can't decide how many creatures to run and what sideboard cards to play with.
I particularly dont like cryptic above 2, so i would probably replace one of those with one more mana leak. And resto angel no longer does enough for the deck, solid beaters like batterskull, baneslayer or thundermaw far outclass her. If all that fails, there is ajani or elspeth as additional threats.
Right now im trying a 3 leak 3 remand split, since many times i have wanted that leak early on to hard counter something.
Im also going back and forth between 24 and 25 lands.
Your sb seems solid, but i dont like mindsensors at all, they are way too fragile, and you have no answer for the mirror, or GY strategies, i would take those 3 out to cover those 2 match ups.
Thanks! I was also thinking of adding 1x Thundermaw and 1x Batterskull. These guys seem to fit the top end of the curve. Regarding mindcensors, why do you think it's bad? I know it's fragile, but they seem to do their job vs Scapeshift and seems decent vs Pod and Tron.
For the mirror, I only have 2 pyroclasms at the moment. I'd like to add some more, I could prolly throw in a few Phantasmal Images but it's a temporary solution since the rules will change soon. What other cards can you bring in for the mirror match? Regarding GY hate, I've never thought of having some in the deck. I might need them vs Reanimator and Living End, but these decks don't pop out a lot. What type of GY hate is best for the deck? Maybe Relic of Progenitus or Surgical Extraction?
Delver and mana leak does that to Tusk, Titans or Wurmcoils. It still doesn't change the fact that it is outclassed by these 6 drops.
I agree with what you say. I actually don't like the idea of using Tusk in Modern. I only said that because there are stubborn players that will insist in playing that card even if there are better options. And Tron is one of the decks that could easily cast it.
^
This.
If I remember correctly, Tusk didn't see a lot of play during Scars-INN because Titans/Wurmcoil were much better.
It's a bit trickier than your average aggro / midrange deck in standard. You don't run a lot of creatures in UWR, so you need to out tempo your opponent. It runs like the UWR Geist deck in standard, but has access to cheap removal and playable counterspells.
The deck is very flexible and doesn't have a lot of bad matchups, but it is not that forgiving with mistakes.
Because Restoration Angel doesn't do much and is usually a 3/4 flyer for 4 mana. I know it blinks your cliques and snapcasters but I'd rather play cards that are good on its own and doesn't need other cards to make it better. At least for my case, I run Cryptics in the deck and I don't want to clog up the 4 drop so I dropped Restos in favor of Mindcensors and Thundermaws
Tbh, I never liked adding PWs in a tempo deck, but I think most players prefer Ajani because it is easier to cast and is much more flexible that Elspeth.
It really depends on how you would like to play the deck. Here are the things that I would drop from your list.. 2 Spell Snare and 1 Sphinx's Rev. If you're not that in a hurry to kill them and want to play a bit controlling, I would go with 3 Remand, 2 Mana Leak, 2 Cryptic Command and 2 Izzet Charm. I'll probably add a Baneslayer or a Thundermaw Hellkite if there are a lot of Lingering Souls in your area.
If you want to play aggressively, 4x Remand, 2-3 Cryptics should be enough. Just make sure you add some more cheap threats so you can constantly apply pressure.
I think 25 lands is the right number, but with what you are running, you probably need to play with 26 lands because your curve is pretty high. Before you add Ajani V, I would consider adding the 3rd Clique. I know it's legendary but it dies pretty quickly, so having multiples is alright. It also goes well with the tempo plan and makes Remand a lot better.
What do you guys think on Spell Pierce? It feels solid when the deck is pretty good with killing creatures aside from goyf. It protects our guys from removal and helps you with the counter war when you are running cryptics in the deck.
Thanks for sharing the list. The build seems more controlling and is threat light. Have you ever considered adding more creatures to put some more pressure? How's it doing for you?
I think it really depends on the curve of your deck. If you run several cryptics you probably need to bump it up to 25.
Hmm, I like the idea of cutting snaps and boarding in RIP against those decks. Do you have a list that I can refer to? I still can't decide how many creatures to run and what sideboard cards to play with.
Thanks! I was also thinking of adding 1x Thundermaw and 1x Batterskull. These guys seem to fit the top end of the curve. Regarding mindcensors, why do you think it's bad? I know it's fragile, but they seem to do their job vs Scapeshift and seems decent vs Pod and Tron.
For the mirror, I only have 2 pyroclasms at the moment. I'd like to add some more, I could prolly throw in a few Phantasmal Images but it's a temporary solution since the rules will change soon. What other cards can you bring in for the mirror match? Regarding GY hate, I've never thought of having some in the deck. I might need them vs Reanimator and Living End, but these decks don't pop out a lot. What type of GY hate is best for the deck? Maybe Relic of Progenitus or Surgical Extraction?