I think this may actually be one of the worst color combinations to try and play vs. the Fish decks. The only card you mentioned that is reasonably effective against them is Banisher Priest, and they can just Cyclonic Rift it EOT to get all their guys back, then untap and kill you.
You basically have to bend over backwards just to try and interact with them, as proven by the subpar cards you're talking about jamming (Selesnya Charm being the exception).
Pretty much this. I mean, it seems like something easy to work with. Drop 1 CMC creatures, fit in some disruption and move forward into black.
Claustrophobia is kind of the premier tech from the European team in my opinion, and it really helps get the foot in the door for a Black splash wanting to lighten up on the creatures for more of a control game that builds devotion.
As for the name, Fish is also already a deck in another format.
Why not just call it Blue Devotion?
I plan on taking Zem up on calling it Surf's up with a complete cheese ball line when I win.
Fish is not a deck in another format. Fish is an archetype, like Aggro or midrange or tempo. The closest thing to it in Legacy is Merfolk, which is actually just know as "Merfolk" and is much more of a straightforward Aggro strategy (hence why it's fallen out of favor as of late, like most Aggro strategies in Legacy).
Then you board in Mistcutters and laugh all the way to town as you put unflinching courage on your unstoppable guy.
Then balk as they resolve a Ratchet Bomb and 2-for-1 you?
You're not really getting it, despite our best attempts to explain it. You can exile AT MOST 4 cards in their deck which aren't super critical to their game plan. Thats not disruptive, that's mildly inconveniencing them.
You have 4-6 sideboard cards that can be decent-to-good against them but their entire deck preys on non-interactive strategies like GW.
Have you even had them play the devotion game into a Mistcutter?
Blue Devotion is just worse at the devotion game than most other devotion decks, because it's creatures are just worse, so while you are building up devotion, so are they, but they are playing better creatures.
I wouldn't say worse, the end result is just not as degenerate compared to what, say, G or B devotion decks can do. But it is much more disruptive than G, better vs. aggro than B, and more resilient than R.
Another thing I do not get about the UW version... what on earth are you doing against Mistcutter Hydra? Are you really trying to get to your single Spear to be able to answer it?
Ratchet Bomb is the best answer, followed by Supreme Verdict and finally Rapid Hybridization for an emergency blocker if necessary. If it really becomes a problem, there's always cards like Celestial Flare. Frankly, Mistcutter is not that huge of a deal even for the Mono U versions so I don't see UW being any weaker to it given that it has more answers, in theory.
For example a (good) start may be: turn 1 raptor turn 2 frostburn weird turn 3 specter turn 4 aetherling with 1 island untap.
Double Nykthos with revelation is just absurd: I just did revelation for x=12 on turn 5!
I can't play any mutavault but I still think it is worth it.
I don't like the Aetherling in the main and you are D.O.A. to a resolved Mistcutter Hydra, Obzedat, or Stormbreath Dragon if they manage to disrupt your game plan :\
What are people's thoughts on Hands of Binding in the sideboard as tech for the mirror and other decks where we might be racing?
Hands of Binding probably wouldn't make much of a difference... Your only truly evasive card in the mirror is Thassa, since they play so many flying blockers. A card like Domestication is probably better since it actively adds to your devotion while allowing you to simultaneously neutralize and utilize their Nightveil Specters and Master of Waves.
The mirror comes down to a variant of "battlecruisers" that I like to call "aircraft carriers".
On the subject of UW, this is mine right now. I have 3 sideboard slots to fill and I'm debating going up to 26 lands to get a 19th blue source because it helps a lot with mulligans and still hitting the UU 2 drops. I'm also trying to figure out what the optimal number of blue pips is for MoW and Thassa.
Only 7 white sources (all shocklands) scares me, personally, although I like that it helps feed Nightveil Specter.
I am not a big fan of Daxos of Meletis in here, I think you should cut a Bident for a Jace in the main, and I'd run 4 Cloudfin Raptors or none-- since it's only really good in your opening hand, you want to run as many as possible to maximize the chances that's where you'll see it. You just have to depend on Charm/Thassa to help nullify the weaker draws.
As for how devoted to devotion we should be (lol), I think the correct way to prepare for the bulls-eye we are now wearing is to move slightly away from "try to make Master as insane as possible", to "let's build a good blue deck that makes Master of Waves anywhere from decent to amazing, depending on the draw".
Your only way of interacting with them is Selesnya Charm targeting Thassa (or Fade into Antiquity out of the board), and you can't out-race, out-tempo, or go over the top of them.
I am new to this forum so I apologize in advance is this is not the appropriate place for this discussion. I spent a large portion of my weekend watching Pro Tour Theros and came to the conclusion that I'd start off the season playing Esper Control. Wafo-Tapa's list, http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=1164731 , looks pretty solid and thought it would be a good place to start.
The sideboard looks pretty straight forward swap ins for control mirrors. The one card that has me a bit confused is Soldier of the Pantheon. Are they being being brought in against control as a surprise after the opposing control player has swapped out all his removal?
Any help on this topic would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Soldier of the Pantheon is more for the aggro/midrange matchup, probably. He is very good at both blocking and gaining you incremental life while your opponents durdle with Rakdos Cacklers, BTEs, Fleecemanes, etc. There are a LOT of multicolored creatures and spells being played right now and if your opponent can't remove him he'll probably save you a lot of damage and gain you a significant amount of life.
I suppose you could bring him in vs. Control, since he's immune to Detention Sphere and Azorius Charm. He'd probably crack in for a lot before he finally gets removed (vs. Esper, UW's only semi-efficient answer to him is Glare of Heresy, probably).
All of you convinced Fish is just a meta-called outlier: I'm saving your various quotes and conjectures about the deck's future. Hopefully someday we'll all be able to look back on the debate in this thread and laugh.
Gonna go ahead and grab the quotes of some of the early naysayers in this and the PT Dublin thread, so that when this deck becomes a Tier 1 Boogeyman, we'll all be able to look back and laugh.
I'd pick up your playset now. I see no reason why this card won't reach and maintain the same price tag that Cavern of Souls commanded last season. If Cavern hit $25, so will this.
You basically have to bend over backwards just to try and interact with them, as proven by the subpar cards you're talking about jamming (Selesnya Charm being the exception).
Fish is not a deck in another format. Fish is an archetype, like Aggro or midrange or tempo. The closest thing to it in Legacy is Merfolk, which is actually just know as "Merfolk" and is much more of a straightforward Aggro strategy (hence why it's fallen out of favor as of late, like most Aggro strategies in Legacy).
Then balk as they resolve a Ratchet Bomb and 2-for-1 you?
You're not really getting it, despite our best attempts to explain it. You can exile AT MOST 4 cards in their deck which aren't super critical to their game plan. Thats not disruptive, that's mildly inconveniencing them.
You have 4-6 sideboard cards that can be decent-to-good against them but their entire deck preys on non-interactive strategies like GW.
Call it Fish. It's basically a Fish deck, especially post-board. Call it Fish.
I wouldn't say worse, the end result is just not as degenerate compared to what, say, G or B devotion decks can do. But it is much more disruptive than G, better vs. aggro than B, and more resilient than R.
Ratchet Bomb is the best answer, followed by Supreme Verdict and finally Rapid Hybridization for an emergency blocker if necessary. If it really becomes a problem, there's always cards like Celestial Flare. Frankly, Mistcutter is not that huge of a deal even for the Mono U versions so I don't see UW being any weaker to it given that it has more answers, in theory.
I don't like the Aetherling in the main and you are D.O.A. to a resolved Mistcutter Hydra, Obzedat, or Stormbreath Dragon if they manage to disrupt your game plan :\
Hands of Binding probably wouldn't make much of a difference... Your only truly evasive card in the mirror is Thassa, since they play so many flying blockers. A card like Domestication is probably better since it actively adds to your devotion while allowing you to simultaneously neutralize and utilize their Nightveil Specters and Master of Waves.
The mirror comes down to a variant of "battlecruisers" that I like to call "aircraft carriers".
What's your plan, if I might ask?
LMAO. That's hilarious.
Only 7 white sources (all shocklands) scares me, personally, although I like that it helps feed Nightveil Specter.
I am not a big fan of Daxos of Meletis in here, I think you should cut a Bident for a Jace in the main, and I'd run 4 Cloudfin Raptors or none-- since it's only really good in your opening hand, you want to run as many as possible to maximize the chances that's where you'll see it. You just have to depend on Charm/Thassa to help nullify the weaker draws.
As for how devoted to devotion we should be (lol), I think the correct way to prepare for the bulls-eye we are now wearing is to move slightly away from "try to make Master as insane as possible", to "let's build a good blue deck that makes Master of Waves anywhere from decent to amazing, depending on the draw".
All just my 2 cents
It doesn't look good.
Soldier of the Pantheon is more for the aggro/midrange matchup, probably. He is very good at both blocking and gaining you incremental life while your opponents durdle with Rakdos Cacklers, BTEs, Fleecemanes, etc. There are a LOT of multicolored creatures and spells being played right now and if your opponent can't remove him he'll probably save you a lot of damage and gain you a significant amount of life.
I suppose you could bring him in vs. Control, since he's immune to Detention Sphere and Azorius Charm. He'd probably crack in for a lot before he finally gets removed (vs. Esper, UW's only semi-efficient answer to him is Glare of Heresy, probably).