I do not like pridemage in this deck. It is not bomb enough and is not big enough a threat.
Krosan grip in the sb, Deed, vindicate are all enough to handle problem permanents. Anything else is overkill and waters down our strong packages already present. I haven't seen pridemage in a single top Dark horizions deck.
If you are playing counterbalance then get board in k grip and deeds. This gives us 6+ answers that you will be able to have in your hand at the start of the game, if not then mull to an answer. Land a deed fast and watch as your opponent scrambles to dig for an answer to it so they can lay counterbalance. All the while land all the beaters you want and make them sweat more.
What are thoughts on Leyline of the Void? Most survival decks run MD answers to it, but it may be worth it for the tempo we gain while they dig for their answer?
If we can get a tarmo or a knight big enough to chump or kill a VV then the games swings in our favor considerably.
De@d, perish? That seems really weird to have an answer that hurts our board position. Do you usually just hold any tarmos/knights when you board in perish and wait to play them until perish resolves?
The only deck we have a negative matchup against (according to this data, not trying to state facts here!) is survival. Every other DTB is a good matchup which is just nutty, Dark Horizons is a monster of a deck and it is in a great position to eat all the anti-survival decks that are sure to be all over the place at worlds.
That said, the survival matchup is very bad, which is obviously an issue. What do you all think is the best hate against either type of survival? I find extiripate is a great card against both survival decks, especially against ooze (if you were to use a tormod's crypt they can react at instant speed for the win).
What are some strategy's you all use against survival?
edit: Obvious sideboarding strategy against survival is board out hymn and gerrards verdict board in extiripate and any other anti survi hate. It sucks that survival is more or less immune to our great CA genorators, and I think it is a primary reason it is such a bad matchup for us. Either of these cards is a bomb in a normal game, it creates CA no matter what stage of the game you are in and is never a dead draw. Losing it against survival is a hurting.
2 land belcher is what I prefer. I play knowing that if I don't go off by turn 2 it is 90% chance I will lose. I keep this in mind while mulling and I kept it in mind with me main board.
Bayou opens up alot of doors for belcher, and it brings with it allot of consistency that 1 or 0 land belcher fight to have. Dark Ritual is more mana efficient than other spells available (other than seething song), it goes off quicker, and is in general more conducive to a T1 belch.
Infernal tutor is the best thing available to us, it functions as LED and Belcher 5-8. Spoils of the vault is scary efficient at what it does, lifeloss from it is negligible because if I am playing it then I will be going off that turn.
With both tutors I keep FAR more hands than I would otherwise and it leads to a much more reliable T1 belch, however it should be noted that it does bring the risk of fizzling (which doesn't happen often).
I used to play with burning wish and a wishboard, but after a while I realized that nothing I ever got with wish is what I actually wanted (usually either an LED or a belcher). For this reason I decided to cut the package entirley and replace it with Spoils and Infernal.
Another Card I have looked at very seriously is Ill-Gotten Gains. It seems like it could be a fantastic card for making T1 belches happen (grabbing LED's from the grave. Perhaps someday I will test it (2b is somewhat of a turnoff, WTB Black elvish spirit guide)
I am extremely intrigued by the idea of goblin welder. It seems like such an out of the blue card in this deck, you opponent will be doing everything they can to get belcher into our gy but goblin welder messes everything up.
I could see it making our blue matchup better (those matches where we know we will not be able to go off on 1,2,or 3), but I don't see too much hope for him without haste ;[
My problem with ancient tomb is not that it pings us. It is that it provides very little gain.
In an affitinty deck artifact lands might as well tap for two, because by their nature they reduce the cost of our affinity spells and they tap for a mana.
Ancient tomb would just eat wastelands all day in this deck, my arti lands don't get wasted once I get a ravager on the board.
Gives up some of the consistency of a list like Just Me's but it brings in more options and answers. Words of wind is such a fantastic card, it changes the entire board when it lands and is too good to ignore. Intuition is another great benefit of splashing blue. Intuition can grab key pieces or answers and also put things in your yard to use later with replenish.
What are some other things you guys can think of that can come from blue?
Thoughts on the deck? I'm completely new to legacy and affinity, so I'm guessing here.
What about for the sideboard? I've got nothing and my meta is completely unknown.
EDIT: What are the pros and cons of Frogmite v Arcbound Worker? I'm using the Worker because it has been my favorite card for the long time (I love Modular :p), but I see most list are running the frog...
Hey Xailiar, this is a great list to start out with! My first suggestion would be to swap out your darksteel citadels for tree of tales. I know it sucks to lose the indestructible part, but tree of tales will allow you to have a more robust sideboard!
Regarding your sideboard, DuressTormod's Crypt and Nature's Claim are all excellent choices for an unkown meta.
Frogmite is an amazing card, but arcbound worker has his uses too. In the end, play what you want (though Frogmite is probably better in No-Vial affinity)
Edit: If you changed your Glimmer voids into Ancient Den then you could expand your sideboard options even more with ethersworn canonist
Krosan grip in the sb, Deed, vindicate are all enough to handle problem permanents. Anything else is overkill and waters down our strong packages already present. I haven't seen pridemage in a single top Dark horizions deck.
If you are playing counterbalance then get board in k grip and deeds. This gives us 6+ answers that you will be able to have in your hand at the start of the game, if not then mull to an answer. Land a deed fast and watch as your opponent scrambles to dig for an answer to it so they can lay counterbalance. All the while land all the beaters you want and make them sweat more.
What are thoughts on Leyline of the Void? Most survival decks run MD answers to it, but it may be worth it for the tempo we gain while they dig for their answer?
If we can get a tarmo or a knight big enough to chump or kill a VV then the games swings in our favor considerably.
De@d, perish? That seems really weird to have an answer that hurts our board position. Do you usually just hold any tarmos/knights when you board in perish and wait to play them until perish resolves?
Shamlessly stolen from This Article :
The only deck we have a negative matchup against (according to this data, not trying to state facts here!) is survival. Every other DTB is a good matchup which is just nutty, Dark Horizons is a monster of a deck and it is in a great position to eat all the anti-survival decks that are sure to be all over the place at worlds.
That said, the survival matchup is very bad, which is obviously an issue. What do you all think is the best hate against either type of survival? I find extiripate is a great card against both survival decks, especially against ooze (if you were to use a tormod's crypt they can react at instant speed for the win).
What are some strategy's you all use against survival?
edit: Obvious sideboarding strategy against survival is board out hymn and gerrards verdict board in extiripate and any other anti survi hate. It sucks that survival is more or less immune to our great CA genorators, and I think it is a primary reason it is such a bad matchup for us. Either of these cards is a bomb in a normal game, it creates CA no matter what stage of the game you are in and is never a dead draw. Losing it against survival is a hurting.
If we were to fax each other a contract, would that make a trade legally binding, and thus punishable if deviated from?
My original thought was a third party, but that is now out of the picture.
Are there any ways of making a trade legally binding or does anyone have any suggestions about this kind of exchange?
Bayou opens up alot of doors for belcher, and it brings with it allot of consistency that 1 or 0 land belcher fight to have. Dark Ritual is more mana efficient than other spells available (other than seething song), it goes off quicker, and is in general more conducive to a T1 belch.
Infernal tutor is the best thing available to us, it functions as LED and Belcher 5-8. Spoils of the vault is scary efficient at what it does, lifeloss from it is negligible because if I am playing it then I will be going off that turn.
With both tutors I keep FAR more hands than I would otherwise and it leads to a much more reliable T1 belch, however it should be noted that it does bring the risk of fizzling (which doesn't happen often).
I used to play with burning wish and a wishboard, but after a while I realized that nothing I ever got with wish is what I actually wanted (usually either an LED or a belcher). For this reason I decided to cut the package entirley and replace it with Spoils and Infernal.
Another Card I have looked at very seriously is Ill-Gotten Gains. It seems like it could be a fantastic card for making T1 belches happen (grabbing LED's from the grave. Perhaps someday I will test it (2b is somewhat of a turnoff, WTB Black elvish spirit guide)
1x Taiga
1x Bayou
// Creatures
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Tinder Wall
// Spells
4x Manamorphose
3x Empty the Warrens
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
4x Goblin Charbelcher
4x Land Grant
4x Lotus Petal
4x Rite of Flame
4x Seething Song
4x Dark Ritual
4x Infernal Tutor
3x Spoils of the Vault
4x Chrome Mox
4x Pyroblast
3x Natures Claim
3x Cave-in
1x Red Elemental Blast
4x Leyline of the Void
I am extremely intrigued by the idea of goblin welder. It seems like such an out of the blue card in this deck, you opponent will be doing everything they can to get belcher into our gy but goblin welder messes everything up.
I could see it making our blue matchup better (those matches where we know we will not be able to go off on 1,2,or 3), but I don't see too much hope for him without haste ;[
A great stalling card and a great card in general for blue enchantress.
In an affitinty deck artifact lands might as well tap for two, because by their nature they reduce the cost of our affinity spells and they tap for a mana.
Ancient tomb would just eat wastelands all day in this deck, my arti lands don't get wasted once I get a ravager on the board.
Exploration, wild growth, and utopia sprawl. Return these to your hand and it is free. Plus, you get to draw card(s) when you play them again.
3x Elephant Grass
1x Words of Wind
2x Sigil of the Empty Throne
4x Exploration
1x Mirri's Guile
2x Solitary Confinement
4x Enchantress's Presence
4x Sterling Grove
3x Wild Growth
4x Utopia Sprawl
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Crop Rotation
2x Intuition
2x Replinish
4x Argothian Enchantress
//Land - 22
3x Misty Rainforest
4x Windswept Heath
1x Serra's Sanctum
3x Savannah
2x Tropical Island
5x Forest
3x Plains
1x Karakas
3x Wheel of Sun and Moon
1x Energy Field
3x Relic of Progenitus
1x Solitary Confinement
2x Runed Halo
3x Suppression Field
1x Ghostly Prison
1x Aura of Silence
Gives up some of the consistency of a list like Just Me's but it brings in more options and answers. Words of wind is such a fantastic card, it changes the entire board when it lands and is too good to ignore. Intuition is another great benefit of splashing blue. Intuition can grab key pieces or answers and also put things in your yard to use later with replenish.
What are some other things you guys can think of that can come from blue?
Yes nature's claim is better.
But no, natures claim is needed against too many decks to count.
Hey Xailiar, this is a great list to start out with! My first suggestion would be to swap out your darksteel citadels for tree of tales. I know it sucks to lose the indestructible part, but tree of tales will allow you to have a more robust sideboard!
Regarding your sideboard, Duress Tormod's Crypt and Nature's Claim are all excellent choices for an unkown meta.
Frogmite is an amazing card, but arcbound worker has his uses too. In the end, play what you want (though Frogmite is probably better in No-Vial affinity)
Edit: If you changed your Glimmer voids into Ancient Den then you could expand your sideboard options even more with ethersworn canonist
As for life from the loam, it would be difficult to fit in.
Let us know how it goes aznchaos
How do you decide whether or not to paint over the text box? Like the life from the loam vs the humble style.
I think both the Armageddon and the counterspell would look even more beautiful without a text box.