You are tapping 4 mana to cast a spell that does 2 damage to a control deck? why would they save a d sphere for this. The clock is to slow and you just wasted 4 mana. Just dsphere your creatures and continue drawling cards and gaining life till drop elspeth and win the game
Really weak. It's a punisher card that may never even benefit you. If the opponent is aggro he'll take the pain and kill you creatures so he stays meaningless. If the opponent is control they'll hold a Detention Sphere for when he falls and you will have wasted 4 mana on notthing.
In EDH he's not really strong, Olivia is better for control, Lyzolda is better for aggro, Rakdos is better for combo.
Wow both of you are such bad players its amazing. You are both ASSuming a lot of the situation to be in your(control) favor. Mogis isn't just going to simply drop t4 by himself. Likely that he will be getting played in RB aggro decks so he will dropping in t4 with probably about 3-4 creatures before it turning sideways and attacking. When Mogis drops it certainly won't be a 20 point clock anymore but more around 10-13. Also Devotion will likely be active so on T5 he will be attacking too along with maybe things such as Stormbreath Dragon.
It seems the competitive decks monoR decks are even leaning to the BTE + Stuff type build. Firefist, Maulers, and Spears. It seems to sacrifice mid to late game mana sinks like Thundermaws and stonewright pumps for block evaders like Firefist and Mugging.
Also Brimstone Volley? I haven't seen that in a competitive list in months! But it seems Thragtusk.dec and Sphinx rev have really fallen out of favor in the meta.
He is begging to be equipped or aura'd. The deck itself relies on the creatures being fast and efficient on their own. This guy has no haste and can't combo with BTE. And if he isn't pumped/aura/equipped he is essentially nothing more than 2/2 for 2 mana.
He is one of those cards for casual standard or sealed. Where he is more likely to get what is needed for him to become a threat. In competitive standard he is pretty much garbage in this deck. Even Vexing Devil is a better option.
What is preferrable? I can't see ExOne going bigger than just a 2/2 very often. But B.Elite's battalion seems just as unreliable.
What about Reckless Waif? Is that still just plain unplayable? Seems that in an aggro match up it wont likely flip. And even if it does. We want to optimally play BTE+something so it will just flip back.
Well here's my deck a radical departure from both the midrangey deck shown on the primer here and the variant "blitz". I don't like playing midrange nor control. I am all about aggro. The Blitz deck just looks weak and inconsistent to me.
I've got an early creature rush with hands like Champion>BTE+Mayor +or> BTE+Mauler. After that I start dropping pumps with trample in the form of Selesnya Charms, Rampager, and Rancor. Any of those + soulbond double strike is pretty much lethal by turn 4 or 5. Rampager + Thalia or Rampager+Boros charm and instantly end a game.
I've had very consistent match ups vs Jund Midrange, Esper Control, Bant Control. Basically any deck that needs to live to turn 4 or later to stabalize I can smash too fast for them to really do anything, save for miracling a Terminus or Bonfire.
VS aggro decks(Rakdos, MONO R, Boros, etc) first game is always a dice roll. Who ever goes first tends to win. Or whoever has the more blow out hand. But on the side comes in Nearheath Pilgrim. The life gain neuters them.
Domri Rade generates a ton of card advantage and the -2 is a trick play people tend to forget. VS slower midrange or control decks his ultimate is almost guaranteed on a turn 3 drop.
Selesnya Charm is an all star card serving as a 2/2 blocker to trade, exile fatties, and push through damage with trample.
I had Boros Reckoner in the deck. But it was a constant liability with Caverns in the deck. Often times people will just let it through when attacking anyways. So a 3/3 for 3 wasn't cutting it. This is an aggro based deck so sitting back for him to block is not something I want to be doing. I cut him out though vs aggro match ups he was pretty decent. Might consider finding room in the side for him.
I won FNM last week while I still had Boros Reckoner in the deck and less domri. But it was that experience that made me cut him... Decks I beat include Bant midrange, Boros, Mono R.
I am debating building this deck on mtgo... But, I am also looking at jund aggro. Can anyone give me some insight on the 2 decks. Pros and cons would be great. Also I hear a lot about people hating out naya blitz. Will this affect Jund aggro the same?
Aggro seems to be the main meta right now. So of course people are gonna hate it out. And generally it will be the same hate against all aggro decks as they run similar strategies. Hell even your own sideboard or Main deck should have things to deal with mirrors and other aggro decks.
Naya Pros:
-Great selection of creatures available to put in the hurt fast and good.
-Better selection mid game creatures such Medic, Silverblade, Minotaur, and Elephant.
-Thalia screws over many things.
-Selesnya and Boros Charms are options.
Cons:
-Aside from the charms your other spell base is pretty weak. Even O-rings at 3mana is kinda steep for aggro.
-If you lose steam you lose the game.
Jund Pros:
-Great selection of support spells that help you deal with anything. Abrupt Decay, Dreadbore, Slaughter Games, and all the other black stuff.
- Vampire Nighthawk laughs at other aggro.
- Vampire Aristocrat laughs at everyone.
- More resilient late to midgame.
Cons:
- early game creature drops are not as good as Nayas.
- Not as hyper aggressive as many other aggro decks.
The problem many players seem to have is acknowledging that Blink decks are different than any other meta netdecks. They certainly aren't aggro. Though they are not really midrange. And by no means are they control.
They are their own thing. As some would say it is "random" or "anti-meta" because people won't expect it or know how to deal with it at all.
I would love to try out a true blink deck, but alas I lack virtually all the cards except Resto Angels and cloudshift to make a competitive BantBlink. But I have always been a fan of cloudshift and restoration angel since they were introduced to standard.
Currently running an Orzhov deck 2 cloudshifts and 4 angels are putting in their work for the deck, though not necessarily a "blink" deck.
I took this list to a tournament tonight, went 4-0 with it.
Absolutely dominated everybody. Albeit first round was against a RUG Axebane Infinite deck, after that I played real decks.
Naya Blitz (blood artists/nighthawks mainboard are absolutely disgusting here)
Orzhov Zombies
Esper Control
I have been a major fan of Black/Red since forever, and have been playing it for months, and I really don't want to give it up. This probably isn't a top tier deck but I really enjoyed playing it.
Don't doubt your deck. It went 4-0! If anything that proves BR Zombies is still tops.
I don't think zombies is going to return to it's glory days of being the top deck just due to the fact that there are so many viable options for people who want to play aggro, but I think it is decently positioned.
It wont be THE top deck. But by no means is it outclassed by the other aggro decks out there. They are simply another option to play with.
Personally IMO(therefore my bias) I do believe BR is the best. Fastest aggro with the best solutions to many problems.
Tops off at 3cmc seeing as the rampager is only there for the bloodthirst. I always have trouble with what lands and how many of each to use can some one fix that for me?
Zombies never stopped being a force. And it isn't getting out aggro'd either. All those other decks are just the new fad that comes with a new set. Similar to how a year ago each new set was the end of delver but after a few weeks and the hype dying down it got back on top.
Zombies have resilience that almost no other deck has thanks to crawler and messenger. Reach to finish off opponents or burn their creatures. And black removal to deal with anything a spear can't hit.
Replace mutilate with killing wave and this is almost the same deck that was topping months ago.
Hell the only reason i stopped playing BR zombies is to try other things for fun. Like BW. But IMO zombies never stopped being competitive since DKA have us crawler and messenger.
Been testing a list without cartels, artists, or tokens. Doing pretty well. The only thing that screws me is bad land draws. Like 2 chapels and 1 gate.. Thinking of dropping gates all together for 2 more swamp and 2 plains. Almost everytime I have to play them before turn 3 it causes me to lose tempo by a whole turn.
My 3 drop slot is clogged up. But they are all so good. Casting either of them has never been problem. The problem is picking which one sometimes. But the variety of options helps.
I do appreciate the input people give on the match ups VS other popular decks in the format. But what I want to know is, what makes this a better option as opposed to Rakdos, Golgari, or Dimir zombies?
1. BR/Rakdos zombies I have been playing and is my go to deck for winning since DKA. It's fast its aggressive and gives the final reach to end opponents. Even vs thragtusk and revelations it has evolved and beaten them out. What makes Orzhov superior?
2. BG/Golgari zombies although not as popular as BR is still consistent. And from the look of things often just a matter of preference between the two. Again what makes Orzhov better than Golgari?
3. BU/Dimir zombies was a deck before Scars rotated out. Now with access to Watery grave and a few other cards it seems possible to return to glory of the past.
I can't help but feel that Orzhov zombies is just a gimmicky deck of Cartel Aristocrat + Blood Artist + Lingering Souls. And that the deck will laughably fail should neither show up fast enough.
Wow both of you are such bad players its amazing. You are both ASSuming a lot of the situation to be in your(control) favor. Mogis isn't just going to simply drop t4 by himself. Likely that he will be getting played in RB aggro decks so he will dropping in t4 with probably about 3-4 creatures before it turning sideways and attacking. When Mogis drops it certainly won't be a 20 point clock anymore but more around 10-13. Also Devotion will likely be active so on T5 he will be attacking too along with maybe things such as Stormbreath Dragon.
4 Ash Zealot
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
2 Firefist Striker
3 Hellrider
4 Lightning Mauler
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Stromkirk Noble
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
18 Mountain
2 Cavern of Souls
Spells (10)
3 Brimstone Volley
4 Searing Spear
2 Mugging
1 Pillar of Flame
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Frostburn Weird
3 Volcanic Strength
4 Skullcrack
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Pillar of Flame
It seems the competitive decks monoR decks are even leaning to the BTE + Stuff type build. Firefist, Maulers, and Spears. It seems to sacrifice mid to late game mana sinks like Thundermaws and stonewright pumps for block evaders like Firefist and Mugging.
Also Brimstone Volley? I haven't seen that in a competitive list in months! But it seems Thragtusk.dec and Sphinx rev have really fallen out of favor in the meta.
How do you guys feel about no Stonewright or Pyreheart Wolf?
But it does include Brimstone Volley and Mugging.
Opinions?
He is begging to be equipped or aura'd. The deck itself relies on the creatures being fast and efficient on their own. This guy has no haste and can't combo with BTE. And if he isn't pumped/aura/equipped he is essentially nothing more than 2/2 for 2 mana.
He is one of those cards for casual standard or sealed. Where he is more likely to get what is needed for him to become a threat. In competitive standard he is pretty much garbage in this deck. Even Vexing Devil is a better option.
What is preferrable? I can't see ExOne going bigger than just a 2/2 very often. But B.Elite's battalion seems just as unreliable.
What about Reckless Waif? Is that still just plain unplayable? Seems that in an aggro match up it wont likely flip. And even if it does. We want to optimally play BTE+something so it will just flip back.
Aggro version of Rakdos, Boros, and Selesnya can be very effective built on budget.
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Clifftop Retreat
1 Rootbound Crag
4 Sacred Foundry
3 Stomping Ground
3 Sunpetal Grove
4 Temple Garden
// Creatures 27
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Champion of the Parish
1 Frontline Medic
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Lightning Mauler
4 Mayor of Avabruck
3 Silverblade Paladin
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Boros Charm
3 Selesnya Charm
3 Domri Rade
2 Rancor
Sidedeck 15
3 Nearheath Pilgrim
3 War Priest of Thune
3 Rest in Peace
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Frontline Medic
1 Silverblade Paladin
Well here's my deck a radical departure from both the midrangey deck shown on the primer here and the variant "blitz". I don't like playing midrange nor control. I am all about aggro. The Blitz deck just looks weak and inconsistent to me.
I've got an early creature rush with hands like Champion>BTE+Mayor +or> BTE+Mauler. After that I start dropping pumps with trample in the form of Selesnya Charms, Rampager, and Rancor. Any of those + soulbond double strike is pretty much lethal by turn 4 or 5. Rampager + Thalia or Rampager+Boros charm and instantly end a game.
I've had very consistent match ups vs Jund Midrange, Esper Control, Bant Control. Basically any deck that needs to live to turn 4 or later to stabalize I can smash too fast for them to really do anything, save for miracling a Terminus or Bonfire.
VS aggro decks(Rakdos, MONO R, Boros, etc) first game is always a dice roll. Who ever goes first tends to win. Or whoever has the more blow out hand. But on the side comes in Nearheath Pilgrim. The life gain neuters them.
Domri Rade generates a ton of card advantage and the -2 is a trick play people tend to forget. VS slower midrange or control decks his ultimate is almost guaranteed on a turn 3 drop.
Selesnya Charm is an all star card serving as a 2/2 blocker to trade, exile fatties, and push through damage with trample.
I had Boros Reckoner in the deck. But it was a constant liability with Caverns in the deck. Often times people will just let it through when attacking anyways. So a 3/3 for 3 wasn't cutting it. This is an aggro based deck so sitting back for him to block is not something I want to be doing. I cut him out though vs aggro match ups he was pretty decent. Might consider finding room in the side for him.
I won FNM last week while I still had Boros Reckoner in the deck and less domri. But it was that experience that made me cut him... Decks I beat include Bant midrange, Boros, Mono R.
Opinions? Suggestions? Critiques?
Aggro seems to be the main meta right now. So of course people are gonna hate it out. And generally it will be the same hate against all aggro decks as they run similar strategies. Hell even your own sideboard or Main deck should have things to deal with mirrors and other aggro decks.
Naya Pros:
-Great selection of creatures available to put in the hurt fast and good.
-Better selection mid game creatures such Medic, Silverblade, Minotaur, and Elephant.
-Thalia screws over many things.
-Selesnya and Boros Charms are options.
Cons:
-Aside from the charms your other spell base is pretty weak. Even O-rings at 3mana is kinda steep for aggro.
-If you lose steam you lose the game.
Jund Pros:
-Great selection of support spells that help you deal with anything. Abrupt Decay, Dreadbore, Slaughter Games, and all the other black stuff.
- Vampire Nighthawk laughs at other aggro.
- Vampire Aristocrat laughs at everyone.
- More resilient late to midgame.
Cons:
- early game creature drops are not as good as Nayas.
- Not as hyper aggressive as many other aggro decks.
They are their own thing. As some would say it is "random" or "anti-meta" because people won't expect it or know how to deal with it at all.
I would love to try out a true blink deck, but alas I lack virtually all the cards except Resto Angels and cloudshift to make a competitive BantBlink. But I have always been a fan of cloudshift and restoration angel since they were introduced to standard.
Currently running an Orzhov deck 2 cloudshifts and 4 angels are putting in their work for the deck, though not necessarily a "blink" deck.
Don't doubt your deck. It went 4-0! If anything that proves BR Zombies is still tops.
It wont be THE top deck. But by no means is it outclassed by the other aggro decks out there. They are simply another option to play with.
Personally IMO(therefore my bias) I do believe BR is the best. Fastest aggro with the best solutions to many problems.
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Clifftop Retreat
1 Rootbound Crag
4 Sacred Foundry
3 Stomping Ground
3 Sunpetal Grove
4 Temple Garden
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Champion of the Parish
3 Frontline Medic
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Lightning Mauler
4 Mayor of Avabruck
4 Silverblade Paladin
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Boros Charm
3 Selesnya Charm
Tops off at 3cmc seeing as the rampager is only there for the bloodthirst. I always have trouble with what lands and how many of each to use can some one fix that for me?
Zombies have resilience that almost no other deck has thanks to crawler and messenger. Reach to finish off opponents or burn their creatures. And black removal to deal with anything a spear can't hit.
Replace mutilate with killing wave and this is almost the same deck that was topping months ago.
Hell the only reason i stopped playing BR zombies is to try other things for fun. Like BW. But IMO zombies never stopped being competitive since DKA have us crawler and messenger.
My 3 drop slot is clogged up. But they are all so good. Casting either of them has never been problem. The problem is picking which one sometimes. But the variety of options helps.
4 Gravecrawler
4 Diregraf Ghoul
4 Geralf's Messenger
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Frontline Medic
4 Silverblade Paladin
4 Restoration Angel
2 Obzedat, Ghost Counsel
4 Orzhov Charm
1 Ultimate Price
1 Victim of Night
1 Sever the Bloodline
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Cloudshift
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Godless Shrine
4 Orzhov Guildgate
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Vault of the Archangel
5 Swamp
1. BR/Rakdos zombies I have been playing and is my go to deck for winning since DKA. It's fast its aggressive and gives the final reach to end opponents. Even vs thragtusk and revelations it has evolved and beaten them out. What makes Orzhov superior?
2. BG/Golgari zombies although not as popular as BR is still consistent. And from the look of things often just a matter of preference between the two. Again what makes Orzhov better than Golgari?
3. BU/Dimir zombies was a deck before Scars rotated out. Now with access to Watery grave and a few other cards it seems possible to return to glory of the past.
I can't help but feel that Orzhov zombies is just a gimmicky deck of Cartel Aristocrat + Blood Artist + Lingering Souls. And that the deck will laughably fail should neither show up fast enough.