The only time As Foretold seems to matter was a long game vs something like grixis control. I had like infinite mana but couldn't close out the game. Card draw vs recursive k command snap c command loops. We traded threats to no avail and I lost by decking out.
Point is, casting spells for free isn't as good as casting spells that matter.
Not so much being too convoluted as we do not need the tempo boost from deep fiend. The outcome of most games depend on whether vengevine gets triggered from the yard so the deck is obliged to make it happen as smoothly as possible, rather than winning more with it in play.
Given the limited sideboard space, I think thoughtseize is generally better. If life loss is an issue (vs aggro-combo), then the go-to card would have been collective brutality.
Without thoughtseize, there would be very few outs from blow out cards like Ugin.
I have been following different iterations of both dredgevine and dredge, but have always been a bigger fan of vengevine since it got printed. Just to share some of my thoughts on playing both decks here.
The first two turns for both decks tend to be similar, except neonate is not an automatic turn 1 cast for dredgevine, and narcomoebas make ugly draws for dredge. Turn 2 is where dredgevine is outclassed: Mom hug is stronger in dredge thanks to narco (free goodies), and casting loltroll is a little tame in an aggressive format. Later, the card that separates the two decks is really conflagrate: the double red mana cycles cards on hand (namely, lands from loam and dredgers from mom hug) into direct damage in a highly mana efficient way, but which competes with the dredgevine plan of double black mana (or more) playing creatures (and thus reducing hand size necessary for conflagrate) which usually ends games faster than dredge if it succeeds (means no anger of gods), or jams (due to failure to find lands off the top or finding nothing to recur dredgers).
In an aggro format, the interaction (meaning roasting opponent creatures) available for dredge is better but in the present meta with more tron and other nonsense, I think dredgevine is reasonable. I also find it hard to go back to wayfinders, even with the diminished dredging power of mom's hug. There seems to be little to argue for a fair approach when the creme de la creme fair decks like jund are finding it so hard in this unfair meta.
My current dredgevine list is similar to killer_manfred's (just less loltrolls, more dredgers, gq in sb).
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Point is, casting spells for free isn't as good as casting spells that matter.
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Would have obviated the need for zombies and gravecrawlers.
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Without thoughtseize, there would be very few outs from blow out cards like Ugin.
Good luck to Killer_Manfred!
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I have been following different iterations of both dredgevine and dredge, but have always been a bigger fan of vengevine since it got printed. Just to share some of my thoughts on playing both decks here.
The first two turns for both decks tend to be similar, except neonate is not an automatic turn 1 cast for dredgevine, and narcomoebas make ugly draws for dredge. Turn 2 is where dredgevine is outclassed: Mom hug is stronger in dredge thanks to narco (free goodies), and casting loltroll is a little tame in an aggressive format. Later, the card that separates the two decks is really conflagrate: the double red mana cycles cards on hand (namely, lands from loam and dredgers from mom hug) into direct damage in a highly mana efficient way, but which competes with the dredgevine plan of double black mana (or more) playing creatures (and thus reducing hand size necessary for conflagrate) which usually ends games faster than dredge if it succeeds (means no anger of gods), or jams (due to failure to find lands off the top or finding nothing to recur dredgers).
In an aggro format, the interaction (meaning roasting opponent creatures) available for dredge is better but in the present meta with more tron and other nonsense, I think dredgevine is reasonable. I also find it hard to go back to wayfinders, even with the diminished dredging power of mom's hug. There seems to be little to argue for a fair approach when the creme de la creme fair decks like jund are finding it so hard in this unfair meta.
My current dredgevine list is similar to killer_manfred's (just less loltrolls, more dredgers, gq in sb).