Well, if what you're aiming for in your deck is a pseudo angel tribal then you might want to consider Harsh Mercy. 3 mana to kill most of your opponent's creatures and leave your angels seem like a fair trade.
Thanks for your replies guys! I figured since it fell to the third page I would get nothing, but it's good to see it back up!
Anyway, on to address your suggestions. I put Emeria Angel in my deck because of how good she can be with just making birds to pump or to feed into skullclamp.
Grand Arbiter would be a good fit since he can reduce my general's cost by 2, but I kind of wanted to keep it tribal But I'll think it over some more.
I know there are definitely better nonbasic duals I could use in the deck, but I was actually considering taking the ones I had in there out now and putting in moer snow basics, storage lands and a utility land or two. From my experiences so far I haven't really needed the fixing yet so I might be able to do well without it.
Like I said, I've been on the fence about Divine Sacrament and Serra Aviary. If anything, I'd cut the sacrament first and keep the Aviary, but I'll have to try it out more.
I'll probably end up putting Shift in, it seems really good in this deck. Everflowing Chalice is another easy include just because of the proliferate and it's solid already.
I'm a little against the infect on the side. With proliferation, it could go all the way but I feel like it's reaching a little far. Plus, if I did manage to knock out one person, that still leaves multiple others to deal with. I'm not sure about those guys.
Phantom Flock seems like it could be really good with the proliferate, so I'll try and find a spot for him. Though I'd like to hear about your experiences with the other creatures. Some of them seems a little lackluster to me. Would the protections make them that much better than I originally think?
And as for the draw spells, I am still heavily considering them. I'm torn because a topdeck lategame of either of them can either refill my hand or do nothing. If anything I'll give them a try, though i would like to hear your experiences with these as well. Thanks for your time and suggestions!
Recently I have gotten bored of the decks I currently possess so I figured I would try my hand at a more casual deck. I figured what could be more casual than a tribal deck! And so I looked through and eventually found Kangee and thought a bird tribal would be an interesting challenge. Below is my decklist so far.
These are just some of my own thoughts on the deck. If it's tl;dr, I understand!
Originally I wanted to try and keep a tribal theme to this deck, but I somehow let myself let some non-birds into the deck. Some of them are appropriate I think, such as Soraya and Brass Herald, since they still support the tribe. However, I put the two advocates in as a way to have reusable effects that also gained me some allies in multiplayer games. However, they will most likely come out just so it fits the theme more. And so I don't give my opponents a lot of cards.
The only other creatures I could think of that would deserve a spot on the list would be Emeria Angel and Aven Mimeomancer when I acquire them. It'll be another token producer that can feed my skullclamp or just add to the army and a bird that can weaken my opponents creatures, buff mine, or put more feather counters on Kangee to boost my birds even more.
As for creature pumps, I'm sorely missing a Door of Destinies. This seems like it would be insanely good as it can get out of control quickly and the proliferate can boost it even more, as with Soulcather's Aerie. I was also going to put in a Marshal's Anthem for more pump and some reanimation, but I am not as sure about that one. I was also considering Gravitational Shift since the majority of my creatures fly, but I am not so sure. Shared Triumph seems like a pretty easy include if I can get one, though I'm not sure if it is good enough to warrant a spot since it is just +1/+1. Thoughts would be appreciated.
On the other hand, out of the ones that I have so far, I feel like Divine Sacrament might be able to go. When I first got it, I thought it was pretty awesome. However, I missed that it only affects white creatures and that puts me off as half of mine are blue so I feel like sometimes it would help my opponent more than me. That is also the main reason I don't want to use Coat of Arms either, since I'm afraid it might help someone else more than me, but I'm still considering it. Would like some input on that if possible!
Moving onto my removal/control package. I didn't want to go too heavy on the counterspells so that I don't become too much of a threat, but I wanted a little bit for those rare occasions. Spell Crumple and Hinder are obviously in there for the generals and I put Arcane Denial in for a cheap counter than cantrips. However, letting that opponent draw 2 cards can be a steep downside. I was thinking about taking it out, but I don't know what I would substitute in for it, if anything.
I was considering putting in Wing Shards and Crib Swap since they are efficient removal plus it makes the deck feel more tribal. And in the way of emergency field wipes, I was considering Harsh Mercy, which seems pretty awesome in tribal decks, and was also thinking about Kirtar's Wrath just for a wrath with a tribal feel to it. I don't want to put in too many wrath effects but a couple for backup seem like a decent idea.
I was thinking about cutting a few of the nonbasic lands and just putting more snow basics in their place. Once I get a Scrying Sheets I think they would help more as I haven't found the deck to be too desperate for fixing.
I was also considering adding some more storage lands (Saprazzan Cove, Sand Silos, Icatian Store, Fountain of Cho). Calciform pools has been working pretty well for me so far to pump a lot of mana into my generals kicker, I figured these could do the same. Plus, with the proliferation effects I have in the deck, I could amass a large amount of mana quickly.
To round out the lands, I'm going to put Emeria, the Sky Ruin in the deck when I get my hands on it. Free reanimation every turn seems nice if I can get it online.
The mana acceleration artifacts and the general utility I have in the deck seems to be working pretty well so far, but of course any thoughts on it would be nice.
Other than that, any input would be appreciated! I'm looking to improve the deck any way that I can (in that I make it stronger while still being tribal. I don't want to put generic good stuff in ). Thank you for your time!
I think the Kaldra pieces could go. While it's nice when you have them all out, each individual piece doesn't seem to help you all that much, or at all really. Probably room for better stuff in your deck.
Also, I'd consider putting in Spelljack and Desertion and possibly Commandeer. Those cards are pretty awesome at turning the tide at a critical point, or just by taking something that looks nice!
First off, I do agree with Birds is probably not the best choice for this deck as I do want land ramping and not just mana ramping in general. Search for Tomorrow does seem like a decent choice, I will have to try it out.
Howl of the Night Pack I had considered but ultimately decided against. It is a decent card, but they are generally a one time use unless I use Witness to get it back. I like the Beacon because it shuffles back in and I generally get repeated uses out of them.
In the same vein, I do think I will use Wolfbriar Elemental and put some more Stampeding Serow in. Every turn I can return Wolfbriar to my hand with Serow to recast to make more wolves. And, if I have Cradle out, then I can multikick Wolfbriar that many more times.
Serow also has good synergy with Witness and Wood Elves as it is that I do miss having three of them in my deck anyway.
And on to Rhys the Redeemed. How could I have overlooked him! With my mana generation on token generation he should be an obvious include into this deck! I will have to put 4 in since, even though he is Legendary, he will probably die rather quickly since he is vulnerable to pretty much all removal in Magic.
While thinking about Rhys, though, I remembered Doubling Season. This seems like it could be interesting, but it only has a one time effect as opposed to Rhys, who can do it every turn. The only benefit I see from Season as opposed to Rhys is that Garruk comes in with 6 counters making him a surprise overrun that is cheaper and will still live. But even then, I usually only use Garruk to untap Cradle to make Kamahl better. Not sure on this.
Right now this leaves me at 61 cards. Hopefully that shouldn't be too much of an issue or I will look for something else to remove.
Edit 2: Ack! Forgot Wolfbriars. With those I will go to 65 though and that is definitely too many. Anyone have any thoughts on what to take out? Or if it is even worth putting in?
Back when Mirridon and Kamigawa were standard, I had a Beacon Green deck. Obviously, it has been rotated out of standard for quite a while now. However, I recently started playing it again with my casual group and have made some changes to it from when it was standard. It seems to be working a lot better, but I'd like some help with finishing it. As far as my group is concerned, we don't have a ban list so any card can go in. Here is the list I have so far:
For those that don't know, the deck basically tries to ramp up as many forests as possible for Beacon of Creation to swarm the field and overrun my opponents.
Gaea's Cradle was a card I had in an old EDH deck that I thought would go great in here. Combined with Garruk, I can tap it twice in one turn and create a massive amount of mana depending on how many tokens I have out.
Garruk Wildspeaker was another addition that I like, but I do not know how to handle him. He is good acceleration and has great synergy with Cradle, and when I don't have Kamahl out his overrun with my tokens can at least knock an opponent out. His -1 to make beasts has also come in useful many times. I thought about bumping him up to a 4-of but my group doesn't target him too often, so unless I am reduced to making beasts he usually sticks around. Not sure whether to keep him at 3 or up to 4.
On to Kamahl, Fist of Krosa. I love Kamahl. With even just a few tokens and cradle out, I can use his overrun twice. With Garruk and Cradle, I can do it 4+ times with just minimal creatures. He is a solid wincon for me as straight swarm with no pump doesn't work well since I generally do large multiplayer games. I only have two of him in here at the moment, but I definitely need more. I have 3 in my possession, so it will be up to at least 3. He usually gets killed on sight, so considering putting a fourth one in.
Eldrazi Monument is another solid way to get my tokens in for the game and give them evasion. Having two I feel is the right number, but I may be convinced to put a third in if someone has good reasons.
On to the card draw part. I really like Harmonizes and then using Eternal Witness to get it back to recast. There have been games where I have drawn my deck out because of this. However, I was also considering using Skullclamp because the majority of creatures in my deck have one toughness so drawing would be easy and cheap. But it seems to me to be counterproductive to a swarm deck to kill off its swarm to draw cards. I am not sure on this, I would like more opinions.
Sensei's Divining Top, while it works well very early game, seems to disappoint me usually. By the time I get going with my Harmonize+Witness thing, it doesn't seem to benefit me too often to use top. I am strongly considering cutting this.
Another card I am considering cutting is, sadly, Umezawa's Jitte. Early game it is okay, and late game it does not seem to do a lot for me. There must be better that I can put into this spot, I just don't know what.
One thing I do desire in this deck is some form of removal. The only straight removal mono green has that I know of is Desert Twister but it comes at a huge 6 mana. While I can generate mana rather quickly, I don't know if this is worth using. On the other hand, I thought about splashing another color, like black, and using the Ravnica shock land Overgrown Tomb. It still counts as a Forest for Beacon, I can fetch it with Wood Elves and I can still make black mana as well with my Birds of Paradise. This will allow me to use cards like Putrefy until I can acquire Maelstrom Pulse.
I have the lone Stampeding Serow left over from the original build of the deck because I love the synergy it has with Wood Elves and Witness. Unfortunately, it is really slow and mana intensive to keep going, so I don't know whether or not to cut it or add more. Having the random one does very little for me usually though.
The rest of the creature lineup seems okay to me, but I don't know what else would fit well. Any help anyone can offer would be greatly appreciated.
I think you should put some more artifact mana acceleration into your deck. As of right now, your actual land base looks solid as it has the 10 original duals, 10 ravnica duals and the 10 fetchlands, but it looks like it would be a little slow. As far as I saw, you only have 4 artifact mana sources as your only acceleration. Maybe putting some more in would help you get Scion out earlier so it is harder for your opponent to deal with.
Haha, you're thinking far too small. Aside from the cards you mentioned, Rings is so good with the following cards in your deck:
- Top (use the second ability and you'll draw an extra card for each 3 you spend)
- Liliana/Sorin
- Maze of Ith
- Urborg Syphon-Mage (reach close to Kokusho drain levels, gaining upwards of 20 life or more at a big enough table per activation!)
- Avatar of Woe
- Visara
- Strip Mine/Tectonic Edge/Wasteland/Dust Bowl/Ghost Quarter. Basically, all your LD, and that includes Helldozer too.
- Flipped Nezumi Graverobber
...and of course, Deserted Temple. When Coffers can generate a huge glut of mana, tap it for mana, then use one of it to activate Deserted Temple. Copy the activated ability of Deserted Temple with Rings, and let the first activation resolve. Before the second activation to untap your Coffers resolves, tap it again in response for mana and it will untap once more. You can generate such a huge amount of mana this way!
I overlooked so many different applications for Rings, I will have to find a spot for it since it just seems so awesome. I am probably going to take out Grave Pact for it. Every single game that I have gotten Pact it has not helped me at all. It seemed like it would be an okay inclusion at first, but now I don't like it all that much.
I am also pretty unhappy with Filth. The thought was to have Filth in the graveyard and have Urborg out making all of my creatures unblockable. Even when I have had Filth and Urborg out, which is pretty rare, I either don't have the creatures to use or my opponents don't have blockers anyway. I want to replace him with something else.
Same goes with Bane of the Living. Sometimes I find it helpful, but it usually seems to just sit facedown not doing much or after I reanimate it it is just a 4/3 beater, which is weak in this format.
Sudden Death so far has seemed weak to me. It is okay to get rid of small utility creatures but there are times when there are a few threats that I need to get rid of and the -4/-4 isn't good enough. I am thinking of just replacing this with Rend Flesh or some sort.
I was also thinking about including Vampiric Tutor as well. I find the other tutors to obviously be a great help and having another one at my disposal seems like it would be quite helpful. Imperial Seal is another obvious choice, but it is also really expensive
If you are going for more of an artifact themed deck, consider Darksteel Forge to make everything of yours indestructible. Then, if you go this route, Nevinyrral's Disk and Oblivion Stone are good cards to include. Stone can be used as a complete field wipe for your opponents and Disk can be a repeatable use. Same goes for Magus of the Disk.
Why Urborg in a mono black deck? Because to make full use of Cabal Coffers, your lands should all be swamps which Urborg does. And since the main target for Vesuva will be Coffers, having 2 Coffers and an Urborg out is really good.
Anyway, I think Deserted Temple would be a good include to use your Coffers yet another time in a turn. Having access to a lot of mana will make the deck run smoother.
Expedition Map is another very good tool to search out your Cabal Coffers, Vesuva, Deserted Temple, Urborg, etc.
I would probably take out a few of your random nonbasics for just more Swamp. Personally, I am not a fan of the cycle lands, Terrain Generator, Peat Bog, Terramorphic, Terminal Moraine. The Urzatron seems okay at best, but I don't know how often you actually get all three out, and it only makes the colorless. I don't like them that much, but if it works for you, keep it.
I like keeping some land destruction in my manabase, too. I noticed you have Strip Mine already, but I also include Dust Bowl, Wasteland, Tectonic Edge and [CARD]Ghost Quarter[/CARDS]. This helps hate out the really good lands like Academy, Cradle and Sanctum.
I also include Crucible of Worlds in all of my builds. Not only does it have good synergy with all of the Strip Mine lands I have included, it is nice to recover Coffers if someone Strip Mines it, and having a way to recover from mass LD. Mass LD is pretty prevalent in my playgroup so it is a good out, but if it isn't that common for you, it may not be worth it.
Magus of the Coffers is another card that I find incredibly useful. Another Coffers effect is really nice to utilize.
Also, I noticed a distinct lack of Yawgmoth's Will. This card is insanely powerful and should be included in every black deck. The massive mana generation mentioned above will make this a lot easier to abuse.
These are just some suggestions for now. I will take another look and comment later if I see anything else that needs to be added. Good luck
So I took out Sword of Fire and Ice and Sword of Light and Shadow in favor of Magus of the Mirror and Magus of the Abyss. I played around with the Swords in quite a few games, and found that they don't really help all too much in my deck. I also found there were many games in which I wanted either of the two Magus since they are pretty awesome. Made those changes for now. Still want to fit in some cards, don't know what to take out unfortunately.
I would take out Magma Pheonix, Oblivion Stone and Wheel of Fortune in your deck for the three you listed. Magma Pheonix doesn't really do much to be honest, you have better field wipes than Oblivion Stone available to you in the colors you are playing, and you shouldn't need Wheel of Fortune for card draw with the colors you have and what you already have included. Iona and the Valkyrie are pretty amazing creatures and the Map is just another good way to get your academy.
haza, finaly someone with a chainer Deck, been playing him for about half a year and he really is fun and awfully powerfull (thanck god Kokusho is banned). so my suggestions:
-Altar of dementia it's the tailormade sac-outlet for Chainer, mill yourself and living death or mill them so you have more things to reanimate
Ah, that is the perfect kind of sac-outlet I was looking for in this deck. Free sacs for when Chainer would die, and the ability to mill, while not usually helpful, can be if I mill out a good creature I can reanimate. It will make a very good addition.
-Magus of the mirror, the problem with chainer is allways the -3 Life, he is the solution for that problem (corpse conaiseur should be mentioned here as well)
I really like Magus of the Mirror. It can either draw hate away from the rest of my creatures or I get to greatly increase my life total while destroying someone elses. And I can reanimate it if I need to. Great addition.
-Magus of the Abyss/The Abyss they both make it very hard for your opponents to nibble on your lifepoints early in the game which is fairly important
I would much rather run the normal The Abyss, but as it is it is too much money. However, while Magus of the Abyss is easier to kill, it can also be reanimated with Chainer and thus reusable. I will have to make some room for him.
-Coffertron (Vesuva+Deserted Temple and expedition map) Coffers is the card you most tutor for, exploit it.
I already have most of these cards in my deck as it is, but I did overlook the Expedition Map. I need to include that as it is an amazing land search card.
Also I thinck you should leave the glaciers in because they generate card advantage over a period of time exactly like your general (+their awesome with rings of brightheart which are also recommendable in this deck especially if you run fetchies and crucible)
Well, one of the friends that I play with used to have it in his deck, and it didn't seem to help him too much. He either got it too early when he needed the land drops or too late where it didn't seem to help all that much. Then again, he didn't run many basics so it wouldn't take him many uses of it to get the full use out of it. I will put it back in for now, it seems like a good add.
Rings of Brighthearth does seem like a very interesting addition to the deck. It would work well Fetches, Glaciers and Chainer himself. My only concern is that these would only be 6 cards in my deck that works well with it that I can remember. It is something I will consider.
If you looking for cards to cut, take out your equipment suite (except for Hammer and Greaves of course) the swords really don't do much in your deck beside being manaintensive, which is a problem with chainer. Allthough i find Jitte to be an interesting inclussion how did that work out for you?
The only other equipment I have other than the Hammer and Greaves are the swords and Jitte, and I only included the swords to help protect my general. I think that the protection alone would be relevant and it is reusable. Also, I included Jitte because of the extreme versatility it brings. I can kill creatures with the -1/-1s, or with the +2/+2 if I get blocked, and at worst I can gain back some of the life I lost to Chainer. And it gets counters whenever I hit anything, which makes it very easy to get online. I like the card way too much in pretty much any EDH deck that contains creatures.
Have you had experience with the Swords before? It seems like the protection would be quite relevant.
Also I allways really liked helm of possesion what is your reason for cutting him?
To be honest, I am not really sure. It seems like it would be pretty good, I am just not sure what I want to remove for it. It just seemed weaker than the items I wanted to include into the deck. I really would like to find room for it since it seems to have awesome synergy with Chainer, I just don't know what to take out.
And finnaly buried alive is like Ancestrall recall for this deck (OK almost like AR)
It is certainly an interesting choice. But I would need 12 mana and 9 life to get those 3 creatures into play, but I suppose it is worth getting any 3 creatures in my deck into play. Strongly worth considering.
The original Mirrodin Mindslaver says on the card that they don't take manaburn.
Anyway, on to address your suggestions. I put Emeria Angel in my deck because of how good she can be with just making birds to pump or to feed into skullclamp.
Grand Arbiter would be a good fit since he can reduce my general's cost by 2, but I kind of wanted to keep it tribal
I know there are definitely better nonbasic duals I could use in the deck, but I was actually considering taking the ones I had in there out now and putting in moer snow basics, storage lands and a utility land or two. From my experiences so far I haven't really needed the fixing yet so I might be able to do well without it.
Like I said, I've been on the fence about Divine Sacrament and Serra Aviary. If anything, I'd cut the sacrament first and keep the Aviary, but I'll have to try it out more.
I'll probably end up putting Shift in, it seems really good in this deck. Everflowing Chalice is another easy include just because of the proliferate and it's solid already.
I'm a little against the infect on the side. With proliferation, it could go all the way but I feel like it's reaching a little far. Plus, if I did manage to knock out one person, that still leaves multiple others to deal with. I'm not sure about those guys.
Phantom Flock seems like it could be really good with the proliferate, so I'll try and find a spot for him. Though I'd like to hear about your experiences with the other creatures. Some of them seems a little lackluster to me. Would the protections make them that much better than I originally think?
And as for the draw spells, I am still heavily considering them. I'm torn because a topdeck lategame of either of them can either refill my hand or do nothing. If anything I'll give them a try, though i would like to hear your experiences with these as well. Thanks for your time and suggestions!
Recently I have gotten bored of the decks I currently possess so I figured I would try my hand at a more casual deck. I figured what could be more casual than a tribal deck! And so I looked through and eventually found Kangee and thought a bird tribal would be an interesting challenge. Below is my decklist so far.
1 Kangee, Aerie Keeper
Creatures (Birds)
1 Augury Owl
1 Sage Owl
1 Spire Owl
1 Thrummingbird
1 Soulcatcher
1 Stormscape Familiar
1 Shapesharer
1 Aven Mimeomancer
1 Cloudchaser Kestrel
1 Mirror Entity
1 Raven Familiar
1 Lieutenant Kirtar
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Keeper of the Nine Gales
1 Sage Aven
1 Thieving Magpie
1 Kingfisher
1 Aven Fisher
1 Major Teroh
1 Commander Eesha
1 Sawtooth Loon
1 Gustcloak Savior
1 Celestial Gatekeeper
1 Hydromorph Gull
1 Glarecaster
1 Aven Brigadier
1 Rimefeather Owl
1 Aven Fateshaper
1 Windbrisk Raptor
Creatures (Non-Birds)
1 Pride of the Clouds
1 Jotun Owl Keeper
1 Soraya the Falconer
1 Emeria Angel
1 Brass Herald
Artifact Ramp
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Sol Ring
1 Coldsteel heart
1 Talisman of Progress
1 Azorius Signet
1 Coalition Relic
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Thran Dynamo
Creature Pump
1 Soulcatcher's Aerie
1 Shared Triumph
1 Door of Destinies
1 Marshal's Anthem
1 Gravitational Shift
Removal
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Condemn
1 Oblation
1 Hinder
1 Spell Crumple
Proliferation
1 Contagion Clasp
1 Inexorable Tide
1 Contagion Engine
General Utility
1 Skullclamp
1 Mimic Vat
1 Rhystic Study
1 Opposition
1 Rite of Replication
1 Battle Screech
Land
13 Snow-Covered Plains
12 Snow-Covered Island
1 Mouth of Ronom
1 Scrying Sheets
1 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
1 Soldevi Excavations
1 Prahv, Spires of Order
1 Seaside Haven
1 Calciform Pools
1 Fountain of Cho
1 Icatian Store
1 Sand Silos
1 Saprazzan Cove
1 Spurnmage Advocate
1 Pulsemage Advocate
1 Arcane Denial
1 Divine Sacrament
1 Fieldmist Borderpost
1 Command Tower
1 Boreal Shelf
1 Coastal Tower
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Skycloud Expanse
1 Azorius Chancery
1 Sejiri Refuge
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Seashell Cameo
1 Darksteel Ingot
July 6th, 2011
1 Frost Raptor
1 Serra Aviary
1 Emeria Angel
1 Door of Destinies
1 Marshal's Anthem
1 Gravitational Shift
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Scrying Sheets
1 Fountain of Cho
1 Icatian Store
1 Sand Silos
1 Saprazzan Cove
1 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
1 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Sawtooth Loon
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Thran Dynamo
July 6th, 2011
1 Aven Mimeomancer
1 Shared Triumph
Once M12 comes out, Adaptive Automaton is going in for sure.
These are just some of my own thoughts on the deck. If it's tl;dr, I understand!
Originally I wanted to try and keep a tribal theme to this deck, but I somehow let myself let some non-birds into the deck. Some of them are appropriate I think, such as Soraya and Brass Herald, since they still support the tribe. However, I put the two advocates in as a way to have reusable effects that also gained me some allies in multiplayer games. However, they will most likely come out just so it fits the theme more. And so I don't give my opponents a lot of cards.
The only other creatures I could think of that would deserve a spot on the list would be Emeria Angel and Aven Mimeomancer when I acquire them. It'll be another token producer that can feed my skullclamp or just add to the army and a bird that can weaken my opponents creatures, buff mine, or put more feather counters on Kangee to boost my birds even more.
As for creature pumps, I'm sorely missing a Door of Destinies. This seems like it would be insanely good as it can get out of control quickly and the proliferate can boost it even more, as with Soulcather's Aerie. I was also going to put in a Marshal's Anthem for more pump and some reanimation, but I am not as sure about that one. I was also considering Gravitational Shift since the majority of my creatures fly, but I am not so sure. Shared Triumph seems like a pretty easy include if I can get one, though I'm not sure if it is good enough to warrant a spot since it is just +1/+1. Thoughts would be appreciated.
On the other hand, out of the ones that I have so far, I feel like Divine Sacrament might be able to go. When I first got it, I thought it was pretty awesome. However, I missed that it only affects white creatures and that puts me off as half of mine are blue so I feel like sometimes it would help my opponent more than me. That is also the main reason I don't want to use Coat of Arms either, since I'm afraid it might help someone else more than me, but I'm still considering it. Would like some input on that if possible!
Moving onto my removal/control package. I didn't want to go too heavy on the counterspells so that I don't become too much of a threat, but I wanted a little bit for those rare occasions. Spell Crumple and Hinder are obviously in there for the generals and I put Arcane Denial in for a cheap counter than cantrips. However, letting that opponent draw 2 cards can be a steep downside. I was thinking about taking it out, but I don't know what I would substitute in for it, if anything.
I was considering putting in Wing Shards and Crib Swap since they are efficient removal plus it makes the deck feel more tribal. And in the way of emergency field wipes, I was considering Harsh Mercy, which seems pretty awesome in tribal decks, and was also thinking about Kirtar's Wrath just for a wrath with a tribal feel to it. I don't want to put in too many wrath effects but a couple for backup seem like a decent idea.
I was thinking about cutting a few of the nonbasic lands and just putting more snow basics in their place. Once I get a Scrying Sheets I think they would help more as I haven't found the deck to be too desperate for fixing.
I was also considering adding some more storage lands (Saprazzan Cove, Sand Silos, Icatian Store, Fountain of Cho). Calciform pools has been working pretty well for me so far to pump a lot of mana into my generals kicker, I figured these could do the same. Plus, with the proliferation effects I have in the deck, I could amass a large amount of mana quickly.
To round out the lands, I'm going to put Emeria, the Sky Ruin in the deck when I get my hands on it. Free reanimation every turn seems nice if I can get it online.
The mana acceleration artifacts and the general utility I have in the deck seems to be working pretty well so far, but of course any thoughts on it would be nice.
Other than that, any input would be appreciated! I'm looking to improve the deck any way that I can (in that I make it stronger while still being tribal. I don't want to put generic good stuff in
Also, I'd consider putting in Spelljack and Desertion and possibly Commandeer. Those cards are pretty awesome at turning the tide at a critical point, or just by taking something that looks nice!
First off, I do agree with Birds is probably not the best choice for this deck as I do want land ramping and not just mana ramping in general. Search for Tomorrow does seem like a decent choice, I will have to try it out.
Howl of the Night Pack I had considered but ultimately decided against. It is a decent card, but they are generally a one time use unless I use Witness to get it back. I like the Beacon because it shuffles back in and I generally get repeated uses out of them.
In the same vein, I do think I will use Wolfbriar Elemental and put some more Stampeding Serow in. Every turn I can return Wolfbriar to my hand with Serow to recast to make more wolves. And, if I have Cradle out, then I can multikick Wolfbriar that many more times.
Serow also has good synergy with Witness and Wood Elves as it is that I do miss having three of them in my deck anyway.
And on to Rhys the Redeemed. How could I have overlooked him! With my mana generation on token generation he should be an obvious include into this deck! I will have to put 4 in since, even though he is Legendary, he will probably die rather quickly since he is vulnerable to pretty much all removal in Magic.
While thinking about Rhys, though, I remembered Doubling Season. This seems like it could be interesting, but it only has a one time effect as opposed to Rhys, who can do it every turn. The only benefit I see from Season as opposed to Rhys is that Garruk comes in with 6 counters making him a surprise overrun that is cheaper and will still live. But even then, I usually only use Garruk to untap Cradle to make Kamahl better. Not sure on this.
Thanks for your input guys!
Edit: Updated Deck List
4 Rhys the Redeemed
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Wood Elves
4 Eternal Witness
3 Stampeding Serow
3 Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
4 Search for Tomorrow
4 Beacon of Creation
4 Harmonize
Artifacts
2 Eldrazi Monument
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
Land
21 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
Right now this leaves me at 61 cards. Hopefully that shouldn't be too much of an issue or I will look for something else to remove.
Edit 2: Ack! Forgot Wolfbriars. With those I will go to 65 though and that is definitely too many. Anyone have any thoughts on what to take out? Or if it is even worth putting in?
Back when Mirridon and Kamigawa were standard, I had a Beacon Green deck. Obviously, it has been rotated out of standard for quite a while now. However, I recently started playing it again with my casual group and have made some changes to it from when it was standard. It seems to be working a lot better, but I'd like some help with finishing it. As far as my group is concerned, we don't have a ban list so any card can go in. Here is the list I have so far:
2 Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Wood Elves
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Eternal Witness
1 Stampeding Serow
4 Beacon of Creation
4 Harmonize
Artifacts
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Eldrazi Monument
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
Land
21 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
For those that don't know, the deck basically tries to ramp up as many forests as possible for Beacon of Creation to swarm the field and overrun my opponents.
Gaea's Cradle was a card I had in an old EDH deck that I thought would go great in here. Combined with Garruk, I can tap it twice in one turn and create a massive amount of mana depending on how many tokens I have out.
Garruk Wildspeaker was another addition that I like, but I do not know how to handle him. He is good acceleration and has great synergy with Cradle, and when I don't have Kamahl out his overrun with my tokens can at least knock an opponent out. His -1 to make beasts has also come in useful many times. I thought about bumping him up to a 4-of but my group doesn't target him too often, so unless I am reduced to making beasts he usually sticks around. Not sure whether to keep him at 3 or up to 4.
On to Kamahl, Fist of Krosa. I love Kamahl. With even just a few tokens and cradle out, I can use his overrun twice. With Garruk and Cradle, I can do it 4+ times with just minimal creatures. He is a solid wincon for me as straight swarm with no pump doesn't work well since I generally do large multiplayer games. I only have two of him in here at the moment, but I definitely need more. I have 3 in my possession, so it will be up to at least 3. He usually gets killed on sight, so considering putting a fourth one in.
Eldrazi Monument is another solid way to get my tokens in for the game and give them evasion. Having two I feel is the right number, but I may be convinced to put a third in if someone has good reasons.
On to the card draw part. I really like Harmonizes and then using Eternal Witness to get it back to recast. There have been games where I have drawn my deck out because of this. However, I was also considering using Skullclamp because the majority of creatures in my deck have one toughness so drawing would be easy and cheap. But it seems to me to be counterproductive to a swarm deck to kill off its swarm to draw cards. I am not sure on this, I would like more opinions.
Sensei's Divining Top, while it works well very early game, seems to disappoint me usually. By the time I get going with my Harmonize+Witness thing, it doesn't seem to benefit me too often to use top. I am strongly considering cutting this.
Another card I am considering cutting is, sadly, Umezawa's Jitte. Early game it is okay, and late game it does not seem to do a lot for me. There must be better that I can put into this spot, I just don't know what.
One thing I do desire in this deck is some form of removal. The only straight removal mono green has that I know of is Desert Twister but it comes at a huge 6 mana. While I can generate mana rather quickly, I don't know if this is worth using. On the other hand, I thought about splashing another color, like black, and using the Ravnica shock land Overgrown Tomb. It still counts as a Forest for Beacon, I can fetch it with Wood Elves and I can still make black mana as well with my Birds of Paradise. This will allow me to use cards like Putrefy until I can acquire Maelstrom Pulse.
I have the lone Stampeding Serow left over from the original build of the deck because I love the synergy it has with Wood Elves and Witness. Unfortunately, it is really slow and mana intensive to keep going, so I don't know whether or not to cut it or add more. Having the random one does very little for me usually though.
The rest of the creature lineup seems okay to me, but I don't know what else would fit well. Any help anyone can offer would be greatly appreciated.
I think you should put some more artifact mana acceleration into your deck. As of right now, your actual land base looks solid as it has the 10 original duals, 10 ravnica duals and the 10 fetchlands, but it looks like it would be a little slow. As far as I saw, you only have 4 artifact mana sources as your only acceleration. Maybe putting some more in would help you get Scion out earlier so it is harder for your opponent to deal with.
I am also pretty unhappy with Filth. The thought was to have Filth in the graveyard and have Urborg out making all of my creatures unblockable. Even when I have had Filth and Urborg out, which is pretty rare, I either don't have the creatures to use or my opponents don't have blockers anyway. I want to replace him with something else.
Same goes with Bane of the Living. Sometimes I find it helpful, but it usually seems to just sit facedown not doing much or after I reanimate it it is just a 4/3 beater, which is weak in this format.
Sudden Death so far has seemed weak to me. It is okay to get rid of small utility creatures but there are times when there are a few threats that I need to get rid of and the -4/-4 isn't good enough. I am thinking of just replacing this with Rend Flesh or some sort.
I was also thinking about including Vampiric Tutor as well. I find the other tutors to obviously be a great help and having another one at my disposal seems like it would be quite helpful. Imperial Seal is another obvious choice, but it is also really expensive
Any kind of input would be greatly appreciated
Anyway, I think Deserted Temple would be a good include to use your Coffers yet another time in a turn. Having access to a lot of mana will make the deck run smoother.
Expedition Map is another very good tool to search out your Cabal Coffers, Vesuva, Deserted Temple, Urborg, etc.
I would probably take out a few of your random nonbasics for just more Swamp. Personally, I am not a fan of the cycle lands, Terrain Generator, Peat Bog, Terramorphic, Terminal Moraine. The Urzatron seems okay at best, but I don't know how often you actually get all three out, and it only makes the colorless. I don't like them that much, but if it works for you, keep it.
I like keeping some land destruction in my manabase, too. I noticed you have Strip Mine already, but I also include Dust Bowl, Wasteland, Tectonic Edge and [CARD]Ghost Quarter[/CARDS]. This helps hate out the really good lands like Academy, Cradle and Sanctum.
I also include Crucible of Worlds in all of my builds. Not only does it have good synergy with all of the Strip Mine lands I have included, it is nice to recover Coffers if someone Strip Mines it, and having a way to recover from mass LD. Mass LD is pretty prevalent in my playgroup so it is a good out, but if it isn't that common for you, it may not be worth it.
Magus of the Coffers is another card that I find incredibly useful. Another Coffers effect is really nice to utilize.
Also, I noticed a distinct lack of Yawgmoth's Will. This card is insanely powerful and should be included in every black deck. The massive mana generation mentioned above will make this a lot easier to abuse.
These are just some suggestions for now. I will take another look and comment later if I see anything else that needs to be added. Good luck
Ah, that is the perfect kind of sac-outlet I was looking for in this deck. Free sacs for when Chainer would die, and the ability to mill, while not usually helpful, can be if I mill out a good creature I can reanimate. It will make a very good addition.
I really like Magus of the Mirror. It can either draw hate away from the rest of my creatures or I get to greatly increase my life total while destroying someone elses. And I can reanimate it if I need to. Great addition.
I would much rather run the normal The Abyss, but as it is it is too much money. However, while Magus of the Abyss is easier to kill, it can also be reanimated with Chainer and thus reusable. I will have to make some room for him.
I already have most of these cards in my deck as it is, but I did overlook the Expedition Map. I need to include that as it is an amazing land search card.
Well, one of the friends that I play with used to have it in his deck, and it didn't seem to help him too much. He either got it too early when he needed the land drops or too late where it didn't seem to help all that much. Then again, he didn't run many basics so it wouldn't take him many uses of it to get the full use out of it. I will put it back in for now, it seems like a good add.
Rings of Brighthearth does seem like a very interesting addition to the deck. It would work well Fetches, Glaciers and Chainer himself. My only concern is that these would only be 6 cards in my deck that works well with it that I can remember. It is something I will consider.
The only other equipment I have other than the Hammer and Greaves are the swords and Jitte, and I only included the swords to help protect my general. I think that the protection alone would be relevant and it is reusable. Also, I included Jitte because of the extreme versatility it brings. I can kill creatures with the -1/-1s, or with the +2/+2 if I get blocked, and at worst I can gain back some of the life I lost to Chainer. And it gets counters whenever I hit anything, which makes it very easy to get online. I like the card way too much in pretty much any EDH deck that contains creatures.
Have you had experience with the Swords before? It seems like the protection would be quite relevant.
To be honest, I am not really sure. It seems like it would be pretty good, I am just not sure what I want to remove for it. It just seemed weaker than the items I wanted to include into the deck. I really would like to find room for it since it seems to have awesome synergy with Chainer, I just don't know what to take out.
It is certainly an interesting choice. But I would need 12 mana and 9 life to get those 3 creatures into play, but I suppose it is worth getting any 3 creatures in my deck into play. Strongly worth considering.
Thank you for your input!