I know that Deathmark does answer alot of our questions we have.... but I find that the Instant speed kill has propelled me to a great WWK-T2 record.
Currently I am playing:
Over the past 2 days at FNM and the Worldwake Game Day, I went 10-2-1 finishing second at FNM and winning the Game Day event.
I would love to go in depth, but it has been a crazy weekend and I just kinda want to post results and go to bed!
FNM
2-0 W U/G Tokens (Bestial Mennace, Lorscale Coatl, new Jace... solid deck)
2-0 W Naya Boss
2-1 W Bant
1-2 L Red Deck Wins
Game Day
2-0 W Naya Boss
2-0 W WW Allies
2-0 W U/W/G Control
1-2 L U/W Control (Iona Lockout)
0-0 ID Naya Boss
Top 8
2-0 W Jund
2-1 W Bant
2-0 W Vampires
A couple things you will notice is the lack of Vampire Hexmage anywhere. Right now, atleast in this developing meta game, it didnt find a way into the list because it really is subpar to what Smother/Doomblade can do.
In my sideboarding, I realize that I am just pulling out alot of 1 of.... actually boarded out 1 Swamp EVERY round! Grim Discovery came out a few times, but really enables the ability to pull out the Swamp. Grim really lets you come up with some interesting blocks when you can bring things back, and works great against the Naya Boss deck where you will do alot of blocking with Nighthawk.
The Bant deck was honestly the hardest for sideboarding since it is almost all creatures except Finest Hour! This makes blocking then Urge to Feed freakin sweet! It also makes Gatekeeper pretty useless! Lets just say, have a turn 4 answer to Baneslayer, or scoop them up.... and as you can tell I didnt have the answer twice in the 6 games I player against it over the weekend.
Questions:
What can we really do against RDW?
Game 1 he went T1 Goblin Guide, T2 Guide, T3 Ball Lightning, T4 Hell's Thunder and Bolt!
Game 2 I boarded in Smother and Doom Blade... taking out a land, 2 Bloodhusk, and 4 Gatekeeper. I started with 2 Smother, 1 Doom Blade, a Nighthawk, and 3 land. I let him excel me with a couple Guide activations and owned him with the creature kill.
Game 3..... I had him! A couple Tendrils kept my life total close to 20. After having to take a couple Hell's Thunder with no flying out, I get a Nocturous with a LAND on top so I can only get in for 6 instead of GAME! That turn he casts 2 Quenchable Fire with me at 12!
WW strategy?
While I didnt see any Devout Lightcaster, I did see Celestial Purge get boarded in quite a bit, but wasn't a big factor. WW is not scary with the board package I bring.... but Pro Black from the Kabria Evangel (dies pretty easy without playing an Ally or on my turn), Sejeri Steppe (saw in responce to a kill spell just once against Boss on Friday), Brave the Elements (which I didnt see in either day with the W based decks).... they all scare me!
Hope you all have also seen success with this deck as we continue to develope WWK standard!
You do realize that Vampires (in its current state) could go away after rotation too? Nocturnous and Tendrils are set to be lost out of the maindeck at the next rotation too. Duress, Doom Blade, and Deathmark are set to go from the sideboard as well. Sure, we still look pretty good compaired to the other options for a block quality deck, but still, Nocturnous is really a huge loss!
Now, before I kindly ask for your comments on how to improve this deck further, I'd like to explain some choices, even though the general build is pretty standard from what I've seen in this thread.
Sorin Markov: I've exactly one mirror so far in my meta and he doesn't run Sorin ("Planeswalkers are 13 year olds"). Before I had Sorin in the deck our matches boiled down to a race, now, if I can get Sorin out - which happens more often than I hoped for - it's almost always a win for me.
Mind Sludge/Bloodhusk Ritualist: So far I was very pleased with this sort of 2/2 split (even though the Ritualist is only in the SB), whenever I liked more Mind Sludge effects in the late game I never would have targeted more than 2 to 3 cards. So the Ritualist seems fine to me.
Vampire Hexmage in the SB: So far(!) I didn't see that much Planeswalkers or other stuff with much tokens on it, so I put her into the SB for now.
My thoughts on improving the deck were to cut one Swamp and go back to 23 lands. This would make room for another Mind Sludge, which I'd really like to have (just to be sure I get it early enough). I also thought about moving one Kalastria Highborn and one Bloodghast to the SB and get two Vampire Hexmages back into the MB. Are these good ideas?
Now I#d be glad, if you could voice your opinions.
Thanks,
Cùran
P.S.: What would I cut (in your opinion) for Underworld Dreams if Jacerator and its ilk see more play around here?
I am playing an almost exact copy of your list. I like the board right now except for the random Sorin (I know your matchup, but the board is so tight right now). 23 Lands is the way to be.... nothing more or less. However, if you cut a land, I think you put in the 4th Sign in Blood.
This is the worst set I have seen since Saviors of Kamigawa. I usually pre-order a playset but thank goodness for this crap economy cause I would have been pissed if I had pre-ordered this crap!
This is the worst set I have seen since Saviors of Kamigawa. I usually pre-order a playset but thank goodness for this crap economy cause I would have been pissed if I had pre-ordered this crap!
This is the worst set I have seen since Saviors of Kamigawa. I usually pre-order a playset but thank goodness for this crap economy cause I would have been pissed if I had pre-ordered this crap!
My guess would be a landfall spell, probably either Rare of Mythic, and sorcery speed.
Team Slayer
BB - Sorcery
Destroy target creature.
Landfall - If a land entered the battlefield under your control this turn, destroy another target creature.
i am new to the naya builds, what are your expert opinions on:
naya charm
goblin bushwacker (instead of the 1x scute mob?)
I have used Naya Charm in a heavy Boros/Vampire/Eldrazi Green environment and did well at FNM..... but at States where it was more Jund/Jace/4cc it was about useless.
Also, i LOVE LOVE LOVE the bushwacker... infact, I have made it a 2 of! To be able to in one turn just absolutly blowout is definatly more imporant than having one BIG guy after a turn that it probably gets bolted or pathed anyway.
I kinda hate people that give hypethetical senarios, but this has happend to me sooooo many times in competative and non-competative workstation games. Just imagine your opponent goes all in (or in most cases has 1 or so blockers left open like a Birds/Heirarch) and it doesnt kill you. You have 8 mana (3WGGRR), and that is going to get you ALOT of damage! Ranger for 2 Nacatl, play both, kicked Bushwhacker.... even with just those, you are swinging for 14! Just imagine that you have a Thoctar or something minor like a Heirarch.... that is just that much more to get in for!
Also, I have to say some of my favorite finishers in my magic career have come with Bushwhacker (in this and other decks). Empty the Warrens for 10 gobos and Bushwhacker kicked.... had this against me at states and just smiled and laughed T1 Plains, Step Lynx; T2 RW Fetch, Step Lynx, swing for 2; T3 Step Lynx, RW Fetch, sac both Fetch for RR, Bushwhacker with kicker, swing for 23... or in a mana screw situation with no white played Bloodbraid, cascade into Heirarch, played another Heirarch, kicked a Bushwhacker, and tapped the Heirarchs for 2 Paths my opponents Baneslayer and Knight of Reliquary! not bad for not having a land with white in it!
For the umpteenth time, the second ability is a minus, you can see the corner of the down pointing arrow in the revealed parts already. Also, if -1 gets you one card, +1 is not going to get you Brainstorm. That would be broken.
Ok how about we agree on this....
if it is
+1: "draw 3... put 3"
or if it is
-1: "draw 3... put 2"
This is definitely NOT the ultimate ability of Jace, since if you just play it for X=0, it would be the best discard spell ever...
4 Mana, missing an effect from a Planeswalker for a turn, and a sorcery speed for discard your hand..... in a pretty agro environment of standard or extended doesnt seem crazy at all! Hell, Blightning is 3 mana for 2 cards (which most times is almost your hand) and does 3 damage!
If anything at this point it would be either "two", "ten", or "X"..... if it is ALL, that is ridiculous and it damn well better cost -10 or more!
Ok again this is not the speculation forum. We dont even know what are the vampires in he new set will do. There's no "weaker" vampires in the deck, just different type of vampires that make a whole when put together. Like I also said, even if we knew what those new vampires would do speculation is FORBIDEN in this section. So just stop with all this pointless speculation.
I wasn't speculating on anything..... I asked the question of what is the weakest card in our deck. I in no way, shape, or form speculated that there is or isnt a better card coming. I stated fact that there is a deck, there is a new set, and asked what our weakest card was. You sir were the one speculating that there is or isnt a better vampire in the new set.
So once again, I will ask...... in all the results we have had with this deck, in all our testing, what have you found to be the weakest card in our deck?
So I know this thread is for the CURRENT state of this deck, but seeing the new product shots for WWK stuff..... there is a Mono Black Vampire deck, alot of great looking Vampire products, ect.
This ties into the current build of the deck how you might ask? Well, I am just wondering what the WEAKEST card in our deck is? If there is some kind of new amazing Vampire, what would be the first card we would drop from the deck?
Currently I am playing:
4 Bloodghast
4 Kalestria Highborn
4 Gatekeep of Malakir
4 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Bloodhusk Ritualist
4 Vampire Nocturous
2 Malakir Bloodwitch
4 Urge to Feed
4 Tendrils of Corruption
Sorcery:
4 Sign in Blood
2 Grim Discovery
Land:
8 Fetch Land
15 Swamp
4 Smother
3 Doomblade
4 Duress
2 Mind Sludge
2 Malakir Bloodwitch
Over the past 2 days at FNM and the Worldwake Game Day, I went 10-2-1 finishing second at FNM and winning the Game Day event.
I would love to go in depth, but it has been a crazy weekend and I just kinda want to post results and go to bed!
FNM
2-0 W U/G Tokens (Bestial Mennace, Lorscale Coatl, new Jace... solid deck)
2-0 W Naya Boss
2-1 W Bant
1-2 L Red Deck Wins
Game Day
2-0 W Naya Boss
2-0 W WW Allies
2-0 W U/W/G Control
1-2 L U/W Control (Iona Lockout)
0-0 ID Naya Boss
Top 8
2-0 W Jund
2-1 W Bant
2-0 W Vampires
4 Kalestria Highborn
4 Gatekeep of Malakir
4 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Bloodhusk Ritualist
4 Vampire Nocturous
2 Malakir Bloodwitch
4 Urge to Feed
4 Tendrils of Corruption
2 Grim Discovery
8 Fetch Land
15 Swamp
4 Smother
3 Doomblade
4 Duress
2 Mind Sludge
2 Malakir Bloodwitch
A couple things you will notice is the lack of Vampire Hexmage anywhere. Right now, atleast in this developing meta game, it didnt find a way into the list because it really is subpar to what Smother/Doomblade can do.
In my sideboarding, I realize that I am just pulling out alot of 1 of.... actually boarded out 1 Swamp EVERY round! Grim Discovery came out a few times, but really enables the ability to pull out the Swamp. Grim really lets you come up with some interesting blocks when you can bring things back, and works great against the Naya Boss deck where you will do alot of blocking with Nighthawk.
The Bant deck was honestly the hardest for sideboarding since it is almost all creatures except Finest Hour! This makes blocking then Urge to Feed freakin sweet! It also makes Gatekeeper pretty useless! Lets just say, have a turn 4 answer to Baneslayer, or scoop them up.... and as you can tell I didnt have the answer twice in the 6 games I player against it over the weekend.
Questions:
What can we really do against RDW?
Game 1 he went T1 Goblin Guide, T2 Guide, T3 Ball Lightning, T4 Hell's Thunder and Bolt!
Game 2 I boarded in Smother and Doom Blade... taking out a land, 2 Bloodhusk, and 4 Gatekeeper. I started with 2 Smother, 1 Doom Blade, a Nighthawk, and 3 land. I let him excel me with a couple Guide activations and owned him with the creature kill.
Game 3..... I had him! A couple Tendrils kept my life total close to 20. After having to take a couple Hell's Thunder with no flying out, I get a Nocturous with a LAND on top so I can only get in for 6 instead of GAME! That turn he casts 2 Quenchable Fire with me at 12!
WW strategy?
While I didnt see any Devout Lightcaster, I did see Celestial Purge get boarded in quite a bit, but wasn't a big factor. WW is not scary with the board package I bring.... but Pro Black from the Kabria Evangel (dies pretty easy without playing an Ally or on my turn), Sejeri Steppe (saw in responce to a kill spell just once against Boss on Friday), Brave the Elements (which I didnt see in either day with the W based decks).... they all scare me!
Hope you all have also seen success with this deck as we continue to develope WWK standard!
You do realize that Vampires (in its current state) could go away after rotation too? Nocturnous and Tendrils are set to be lost out of the maindeck at the next rotation too. Duress, Doom Blade, and Deathmark are set to go from the sideboard as well. Sure, we still look pretty good compaired to the other options for a block quality deck, but still, Nocturnous is really a huge loss!
I am playing an almost exact copy of your list. I like the board right now except for the random Sorin (I know your matchup, but the board is so tight right now). 23 Lands is the way to be.... nothing more or less. However, if you cut a land, I think you put in the 4th Sign in Blood.
However, if your meta has lots of Control/Jacerator crap going around 3 Underworld Dreams go in to the board hands down!
Team Slayer
BB - Sorcery
Destroy target creature.
Landfall - If a land entered the battlefield under your control this turn, destroy another target creature.
I have used Naya Charm in a heavy Boros/Vampire/Eldrazi Green environment and did well at FNM..... but at States where it was more Jund/Jace/4cc it was about useless.
Also, i LOVE LOVE LOVE the bushwacker... infact, I have made it a 2 of! To be able to in one turn just absolutly blowout is definatly more imporant than having one BIG guy after a turn that it probably gets bolted or pathed anyway.
I kinda hate people that give hypethetical senarios, but this has happend to me sooooo many times in competative and non-competative workstation games. Just imagine your opponent goes all in (or in most cases has 1 or so blockers left open like a Birds/Heirarch) and it doesnt kill you. You have 8 mana (3WGGRR), and that is going to get you ALOT of damage! Ranger for 2 Nacatl, play both, kicked Bushwhacker.... even with just those, you are swinging for 14! Just imagine that you have a Thoctar or something minor like a Heirarch.... that is just that much more to get in for!
Also, I have to say some of my favorite finishers in my magic career have come with Bushwhacker (in this and other decks). Empty the Warrens for 10 gobos and Bushwhacker kicked.... had this against me at states and just smiled and laughed T1 Plains, Step Lynx; T2 RW Fetch, Step Lynx, swing for 2; T3 Step Lynx, RW Fetch, sac both Fetch for RR, Bushwhacker with kicker, swing for 23... or in a mana screw situation with no white played Bloodbraid, cascade into Heirarch, played another Heirarch, kicked a Bushwhacker, and tapped the Heirarchs for 2 Paths my opponents Baneslayer and Knight of Reliquary! not bad for not having a land with white in it!
Ok how about we agree on this....
if it is
+1: "draw 3... put 3"
or if it is
-1: "draw 3... put 2"
Fair enough?
4 Mana, missing an effect from a Planeswalker for a turn, and a sorcery speed for discard your hand..... in a pretty agro environment of standard or extended doesnt seem crazy at all! Hell, Blightning is 3 mana for 2 cards (which most times is almost your hand) and does 3 damage!
If anything at this point it would be either "two", "ten", or "X"..... if it is ALL, that is ridiculous and it damn well better cost -10 or more!
I wasn't speculating on anything..... I asked the question of what is the weakest card in our deck. I in no way, shape, or form speculated that there is or isnt a better card coming. I stated fact that there is a deck, there is a new set, and asked what our weakest card was. You sir were the one speculating that there is or isnt a better vampire in the new set.
So once again, I will ask...... in all the results we have had with this deck, in all our testing, what have you found to be the weakest card in our deck?
This ties into the current build of the deck how you might ask? Well, I am just wondering what the WEAKEST card in our deck is? If there is some kind of new amazing Vampire, what would be the first card we would drop from the deck?