The mana cost of 5 for Unburial Rites is irrelevant. The 4 mana flashback cost is relevant in Modern Dredge. It's the closest thing we'll get to Dread Return. It's the fact that it can be played from graveyard that makes it the most relevant.
It's nowhere near the same power level. We lose the ability to reanimate multiple times per turn (being limited to a mana cost), and of course the sacrifice cost which pumped out tons of zombies. FKZ loses value (but might work with Viscera Seer builds), and Iona is not that crazy on turn 4 when a certain other deck in the format has hardcasted turn 4 Emrakuls..
So, can this be a Dread Return replacement in Dredge?
I still don't think it'll make the deck playable, but at 4 mana it's somewhat okay. It'll come nowhere close to DR; the sacrificing of three creatures was always key to create a huge amount of tokens. FKZ loses a huge amount of value of course... and who cares about turn 4 Iona when a certain other deck pulls turn 4 Emrakul hardcasted....
With the right timing, it could easily be a 2:1. I'm not sure how it will play out, but it could work in a UB control shell, maybe something with symmetrical discard, making use of Liliana 2.0 and Smallpox, Snapcaster, Skaab Ruinator, etc
It really only requires two cards to combo out (you only need to cast one of them), it does make use of a psuedo-draw engine that feeds the combo. I've tried it out in MODO and it works exactly as I thought it would, although the triggers can be insanely confusing and it needs work in making it more consistent.
Also, unlike many other decks that run station as its only win-condition, this deck can easily win without it, I just want to refine it, put it through the field competitively and maybe then I'll share and make a primer for it.
I'm just really surprised that nobody has seen the interaction yet. I've googled and searched here for the two cards and nothing's come up and I personally feel it's the best card to interact with Blasting Station.
Feel free to guess, but I won't confirm it just yet.
Blasting Station + Melira + Persist obviouslyl
Blasting Station + Narcomoeba + way to dump library over and over (need Emrakul)
Blasting Station + Beacon of Creation
Blasting Station + Storm Herd...lawls
I know the post you quoted wasn't the reason why they wouldn't reprint this as a standalone from the rest of the cycle. The point of that quote was to show how useless of an example the terminate "cycle" was in this scenario. They all have unrelated names, they all do something entirely different, they don't even have the same costs, and the only thing connecting them is that they're ally colored. If anything it wouldn't make much since for any of these cards being reprinted to demand the others in the terminate "cycle to be reprinted as well. They made those things generic with said purpose.
This is much unlike the warchief cycle, they all reduce the cost of their tribe, they all have warchief in the name, they all boost themselves along with the others of their tribe. It would be much more out of place to randomly reprint one of the warchiefs and not the others than it would to reprint terminate and not the others.
Ah, okay, I understand. I agree that Terminate is not the best example, but the Avatar standalone reprints, and previous standalone reprints of the the chieftains do point in the direction of a standalone reprint in this set being possible.
I'm not saying I think it'll likely happen, as I've stated, i think a callback/functional reprint would make more sense, plus the missing mox in the art might be a hint against an exact reprint, but that might be a flavour issue, so who knows!
BUT... I will say that I do not think this is baseless, not in the strictest sense anyway
A cycle which was only connected to the others by the fact that they were ally colored...as apposed to this linear and specific cycle... The point of comparisons are to find things that are similar. Ally "cycle" =/= we all have the same word in our name plus similar effects, cycle. That's literally like one of the loosest cycles I've ever seen.
I really don't think that would prevent them from printing this standalone. Avatar of Woe is the best and most parallel of the comparisons (also the other Prophecy avatars were later reprinted standalone in eighth and tenth if I remember correctly).
Well, um, it looks like a zombie. There's really not much else to say on the subject in my humble opinion.
How is this not baseless speculation?
To give the OP credit, the arms coming out of arms and the inclusion of gladiator/war-like apparel give it some degree of speculative worth. It really does resemble Undead Warchief and possesses distinctive qualities that separate it from other zombies we've seen in Magic.
I wouldn't quite say it's baseless.
I did fall into the same trap with the Demonic Appetite art though, thinking Grinning Demon was being reprinted and that Morph was making a comeback in ROE :embarrass::embarrass::embarrass:
It'll be colorshifted into blue, have a similar name, and will have the line "Other zombies you control" added... Maybe with a manacost boost. That's my guess.
I think so too.
Here's a little trivia, each of the Warchiefs have a mox around their necks in the art (in this case, Undead Warchief has a Mox Jet dangling from his neck) hence making their respective tribal creature spells cost 1 less,
notice this new pic does not have a mox. it would seem weird to reprint it and exclude that
even before the nixed dredge it was not good enough for this format. Its not like its legacy counterpart with the modern card pool.
The Dredge from new Extended was quite competitive. It would've translated directly into this format as pretty much the exact same deck, while not having GGT was workable, banning Dread Return on the other hand was a double stab to the eyes. If we still had DR, the deck would be viable. They cited turn 3 wins as the reason for banning DR
Now, working with what we have, an ultra slow version of dredge may take advantage of Hedron Crab, the dredge mechanic, mill effects like Tome Scour, Glimpse, maybe Memory Sluice, and take advantage of an unearth engine powered by Crypt of Agadeem to work with Extractor Demon for huge beats or mill out the opponent for some huge number of cards.
Looking at it now, the Standard Dredge deck from Alara-M10-Zen seemed to have some level of consistency. It can only get more efficient in this format with a larger pool of cards.
Am I the only one who finds this somewhat underpowered and/or unimpressive?
You're paying 5 cmc, double white, it's mythic rarity and it's just a 5/3 flying unless you happen to control a human?
UW would rather drop Gideon on turn 5. I see no reason for this.
I mean, give it First Strike, or Vigilance, or a 5/5 body, or make it cost 2WW (possibly a combination of two of those things) and then it might be worth consideration.
oh man I hope so! That would be such a sensible reprint and might put dredge on the map in Modern
It's nowhere near the same power level. We lose the ability to reanimate multiple times per turn (being limited to a mana cost), and of course the sacrifice cost which pumped out tons of zombies. FKZ loses value (but might work with Viscera Seer builds), and Iona is not that crazy on turn 4 when a certain other deck in the format has hardcasted turn 4 Emrakuls..
So, can this be a Dread Return replacement in Dredge?
I still don't think it'll make the deck playable, but at 4 mana it's somewhat okay. It'll come nowhere close to DR; the sacrificing of three creatures was always key to create a huge amount of tokens. FKZ loses a huge amount of value of course... and who cares about turn 4 Iona when a certain other deck pulls turn 4 Emrakul hardcasted....
With the right timing, it could easily be a 2:1. I'm not sure how it will play out, but it could work in a UB control shell, maybe something with symmetrical discard, making use of Liliana 2.0 and Smallpox, Snapcaster, Skaab Ruinator, etc
I see lots of potential with Blasting Station plus another card I won't name just yet.
No, it's not Enduring Renewal and Ornithopter, nor is it Fecundity.
It really only requires two cards to combo out (you only need to cast one of them), it does make use of a psuedo-draw engine that feeds the combo. I've tried it out in MODO and it works exactly as I thought it would, although the triggers can be insanely confusing and it needs work in making it more consistent.
Also, unlike many other decks that run station as its only win-condition, this deck can easily win without it, I just want to refine it, put it through the field competitively and maybe then I'll share and make a primer for it.
I'm just really surprised that nobody has seen the interaction yet. I've googled and searched here for the two cards and nothing's come up and I personally feel it's the best card to interact with Blasting Station.
Feel free to guess, but I won't confirm it just yet.
Nope.
cmc, power and toughness are all divisible by 3
also, exiling 2 cards plus the card itself is 3 cards total
and of course, notice the three heads in the art
It's a flavour thing.:cool2:
Ah, okay, I understand. I agree that Terminate is not the best example, but the Avatar standalone reprints, and previous standalone reprints of the the chieftains do point in the direction of a standalone reprint in this set being possible.
I'm not saying I think it'll likely happen, as I've stated, i think a callback/functional reprint would make more sense, plus the missing mox in the art might be a hint against an exact reprint, but that might be a flavour issue, so who knows!
BUT... I will say that I do not think this is baseless, not in the strictest sense anyway
EDIT: oh well, that about ends this thread ----> http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=356488
I really don't think that would prevent them from printing this standalone. Avatar of Woe is the best and most parallel of the comparisons (also the other Prophecy avatars were later reprinted standalone in eighth and tenth if I remember correctly).
To give the OP credit, the arms coming out of arms and the inclusion of gladiator/war-like apparel give it some degree of speculative worth. It really does resemble Undead Warchief and possesses distinctive qualities that separate it from other zombies we've seen in Magic.
I wouldn't quite say it's baseless.
I did fall into the same trap with the Demonic Appetite art though, thinking Grinning Demon was being reprinted and that Morph was making a comeback in ROE :embarrass::embarrass::embarrass:
I think so too.
Here's a little trivia, each of the Warchiefs have a mox around their necks in the art (in this case, Undead Warchief has a Mox Jet dangling from his neck)
notice this new pic does not have a mox. it would seem weird to reprint it and exclude that
so +1 for functional reprint with some tweaking
Red = flamboyant (read:gay) vampires? [Not that there's anything wrong with that!!]
The Dredge from new Extended was quite competitive. It would've translated directly into this format as pretty much the exact same deck, while not having GGT was workable, banning Dread Return on the other hand was a double stab to the eyes. If we still had DR, the deck would be viable. They cited turn 3 wins as the reason for banning DR
Now, working with what we have, an ultra slow version of dredge may take advantage of Hedron Crab, the dredge mechanic, mill effects like Tome Scour, Glimpse, maybe Memory Sluice, and take advantage of an unearth engine powered by Crypt of Agadeem to work with Extractor Demon for huge beats or mill out the opponent for some huge number of cards.
Looking at it now, the Standard Dredge deck from Alara-M10-Zen seemed to have some level of consistency. It can only get more efficient in this format with a larger pool of cards.
Those vampires in the last pic are... very well dressed and vivacious? lol
You're paying 5 cmc, double white, it's mythic rarity and it's just a 5/3 flying unless you happen to control a human?
UW would rather drop Gideon on turn 5. I see no reason for this.
I mean, give it First Strike, or Vigilance, or a 5/5 body, or make it cost 2WW (possibly a combination of two of those things) and then it might be worth consideration.