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  • posted a message on Deck/Primer Hulk Rebirth
    @ Dresden:

    About the RUG Tempo matchup:
    I'm agree that RUG Tempo is an hard matchup, probably something around 40%-60% in their favor. In my experience, the most important factor is if they have Delver turn 1 or not. Delver turn 1 + disruption and/or counterspell is almost unbeatable, but when they don't have Delver turn 1, I generaly have enough time to give them a fair fight. So when I'm on the play against RUG Tempo with a Therapy in hand, I often cast it blindly naming Delver of Secrets. Goyf and Mongoose are not that scary because they are slower and easier to block, especially with a Wall of Roots.

    In that matchup, if my life is high enough to race with the big Hydra, I'll always pick Progenitus over Hulk when NO resolve to avoid being stifled.
    Post-board, I raise drasticly my mana count, adding 4 Carpet + 1 Xantid Swarm, generaly removing somthing like 1 Hulk, 1 Fauna Shaman, 1 Dryad Arbor, 1 Probe, 1 Viscera Seer. This way I have a lot more chance of win despite lot of Wasteland / Stifled lands / Daze.

    Finally, the good news is that RUG Tempo seem to be on the decline as Maverick is rising, at least localy, but I feel it is the case in the larger metagame.

    About UW Stoneblade:
    In my experience this is a very good matchup for Hulk Rebirth. Since the ban of Misstep I played 20 matches against UWx Stoneblade and keep a incredible record of 17-2-1 against it, so I fail to understand why you dislike the matchup. Perhaps I was lucky, perhaps you was unluky?

    Unfortunatly I don't play on Cockatrice so I will not be able to play with you, but my experience is that UW Stoneblade is slow enough to give us the time we need to win. The easiest games are those with Therapy, especialy in multiple, but even without Cabal, I'm generaly able to cast more than one killer spell in a game. They will counter the first NO but the second one (or sometime an hardcasted Hulk) will get them. Postboard, Carpet of Flower is insane in this matchup and regularly provide 3-4 mana or more.

    @ IcedNeonFlames:

    Yup, you was the only one that won a game against me in swiss sunday! I was lucky game 3 to have this Fanatic in hand against your Aven Mindcensor.

    If you decide to give a try to this deck, I recommand you to read this thread, but also the one on MTG The Source. It will probablty took you some time but you'll learn the most important techs.
    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
  • posted a message on Deck/Primer Hulk Rebirth
    Hulk Rebirth is not dead!

    Because of Graftdigger's Cage, I decided to play Maverick for a couple of weeks instead of this deck, with average success. But as it appear that Cage do not see a lot of play, I decided to pick Hulk Rebirth again and to play it in a big tournement yesterday.

    The tournement was the Quebec City CMT (Canadian Magic Tour), a 2K Legacy tournement. There was 85 players, includind me and a good friend that also choose to play Hulk Rebirth for the event.

    I won the first 5 rounds with ease, losing only 1 game in the process. I saw no Cage at all. I was then able to draw the next two rounds into top 8. My friend that also run Hulk Rebirth was 5-1 after six rounds, so he can draw the last round too (by the way, we was paired on round 7).

    I lost my first top 8 match against Pox but my buddy win it all and took the cup. So the deck put 2 players on 2 in the top 8 and won this whole 85 players tournament. Not bad at all.

    @ PopeJP:
    1. As long as Graftdigger's Cage do not see too much play, it's not a big problem. I put 2 Beast Within in my sideboard to have an response to it and bring back my Fauna Shaman main deck.
    2. There is no point to run Death Cultist in addition to Fanatic and Fanatic is more usefull than Cultist, so I recommand you to run only 1 Fanatic.
    3. Innocent Blood is not a good card for this deck. Slaughter Pact is lot better: it's a free sac outlet and a targeted removal that permit to get rid of anoying hate bear. I mean, opponent will never choose to sac Gaddock Teeg if they can sac something else.
    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
  • posted a message on Deck/Primer Hulk Rebirth
    What an horrible card for us...

    If Cage end up seeing a lot of play, Hulk Rebirth will not be playable anymore, there is no doubt about it for me. For my part, I will play something else at the begining of February before I know how much Cage there will be in sideboards.

    My hope is that decks running cards affected by Cage will choose other options. Deck running Snapcaster Mage, will probably prefer Surgical Extraction, decks using GSZ or other grave-strategies will prefer using other card as grave hate.

    If it's the case, Cage is perhaps manageable with a few sideboard slots. But I would not run Krosan Grip against it because siding in Grip against Zoo, Goblin or other decks that could run Cage, is lame. Beast Within appear like the best option, because it's never really a death card: we can use it to kill Teeg or Leyline or simply to kill Hulk if opponent do not draw Cage (Beast Within can even provide a green creature for NO if needed!).
    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
  • posted a message on Deck/Primer Hulk Rebirth
    I played yesterday at local weekly event, for the first time with Brainstorm. Finished 3-1 despite lots of mulligan. I won against Esperblade, Reanimator and Stoneblade and lost to UR Delver.

    Brainstorm have been good at many point of those matches. I remember one time in particular, against Stoneblade: my hand was Therapy, Progenitus, Hulk and some mana. I brainstormed into Probe, NO and GSZ, I putted back Hulk + Progenitus, shuffled with a fetchland, and then casted Probe. I saw an hand full of disruption (like double Spell Pierce, FoW, Snapcaster Mage, Sword to Plowshare). I casted Therapy the following turn (with mana avaiable to pay Spell Pierce). I later flashbacked Therapy before using NO to get Progenitus and win with it. I'm sure that without Brainstorm I would never have won this game.

    That said, there is also a point where I paid for the blue splash: in my first game against UR Delver the fact that I now only run 1 basic cost me the game as I got killed by Price of Progress - a game I would have won with 2 Forest.

    Overall, Brainstorm seem good and seem to worth the splash. I will definitly continue to run them for now. Saturday, I'll play in a bigger tournament. I will repport my results.

    @David Orb: Props to you for trying new cards but I don't think Scroll Rack is the way to go. Scroll Rack is useless when your hand is empty, it's card disadvantage and, more importantly, it's too much mana-intensive for this deck I believe... If you don't want to splash blue, I think there is nothing better than Sylvan Library to had consistency. Sure, Library cannot send back Progenitus in the deck but, once in play, it avoid drawing it. Once you paid 4 life, you make up for the card disavantage and when you can pay more Library is really awesome. By leaving key cards on top, Library also allow you to dodge discard and allow to recover very well from Hymn to Tourach (something you can't say about Scroll Rack).
    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
  • posted a message on Deck/Primer Hulk Rebirth
    What is exactly your more aggressive black version? Thoughtseize? Slaughter Pact main? Something else?

    For my part I'll play with Brainstorm for the first time Tuesday, in a LGS weekly event, and Saturday in a bigger tournament. Be sure I'll repport my results and impressions about the blue splash.
    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
  • posted a message on Deck/Primer Hulk Rebirth
    I understand why you think about City of Brass / Gemstone Mine but fetchlands are too important in my opinion, mainly because they can get you Dryad Arbor. Fetchlands also provide a needed shuffle effect for Brainstorm if you choose to splash blue. Tropical can be used to hardcast Body Double anyway and we run a lot of thing that can help to cast Fanatic if needed, even without Taiga (Birds, Tinder Wall, Wild Cantor, GSZ, Carpet of Flowers).
    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
  • posted a message on Deck/Primer Hulk Rebirth
    There is definitly pro and con about running Brainstorm in this deck. For me it's still experimental and I'm not sure I'll keep the blue splash.

    Pro:
    With this deck, we almost always have 1-2 useless card in hand like Progenitus, Hulk, Reveillark, Body Double, Fanatic, excess mana or excess combo cards, so it's easy to ship back two after resolving Brainstorm. Sometime you are even happy to get those cards back in Library. Fetchlands + playset of GSZ give you really good chance of being able to shuffle after it so Brainstorm often feel like Ancestral Recall. Brainstorm help a lot to find combo piece or mana when needed and can permit to dodge discard spells. By running 4 Brainstorm + 4 Probe, chance of getting Cabal Therapy + Natural Order, the best way to seal the game, raise significantly.

    Con:
    Splashing a fourth color in the deck fragilise the mana base. Also, depending on what you cut, you can lose some option. By exemple, as I cut Fauna Shaman and Starved Rusalka, my GSZ can now only get mana creature + occasional Xantid Swarm and Protean Hulk.

    I think that sum up the main points.
    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
  • posted a message on Deck/Primer Hulk Rebirth
    @kingofethanol: The opening post is not up to date. I plan to update it soon. For now, I would recommand you to play the same decklist with following changes: +1 Forest, -1 fetchland, +1 Sylvan Library, -1 Pattern of Rebirth. My actual sidebord is this: 4 Carpet of Flowers, 4 Slaughter Pact, 1 Sylvan Library, 1 Xantid Swarm, 1 Qasali Pridemage, 1 Scavenging Ooze, 1 Null Rod, 1 Ethersworn Canonist, 1 Faerie Macabre, but other options exist.

    Also, somebody running the deck on The Source reported excellent results with a blue splash for Brainstorm so a few persons, including me, are actually testing this idea and it's look very promising. For those interested in trying Brainstorm, this is the list I play for now with the blue splash:



    So I cut Fauna Shaman, Starved Rusalka, Sylvan Library, Gaea's Cradle, 1 Bayou and 1 Forest to include 4 Brainstorm + 2 Tropical Island.
    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
  • posted a message on Deck/Primer Hulk Rebirth
    100% agreed with Dresden, Slaughter Pact is better than Shriekmaw and you can put 1 main. If you want a 5th Pact for your sideboard, you can try Deathmark (kill Teeg, Aven, Meddling Mage and also Protean Hulk).
    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
  • posted a message on Deck/Primer Hulk Rebirth
    Ok, I played with my Enlighten Tutor sideboard for the second time today, and conclude that the card do not worth it. Not being able to run 4 Carpet + at least 1 Swarm in the board definitivly hurt blue matchups too much. Using E. Tutor to get Carpet or Library is clunky as the card disadvantage is a real cost. So I'll go back with my last sideboard and I do not recommand you to run Enlighten Tutor.
    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
  • posted a message on Deck/Primer Hulk Rebirth
    Wow, Wildchild, you got an amazing winning streak. 14-1 in 4 events is very impressive. Congratulation!
    If you continue to win as much as that, you'll probably soon reach the point where local players will adjust their decks to you. Where I play, a UW Stoneforge player run some Aven Mindcensor main deck to have a chance at beating me.

    Keep your Null Rod and Faerie Macabre unless nobody play storm or Reanimator in your local meta. You'll need those cards the day you'll be paired against those combo decks and you seem already able to beat anything else anyway.
    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
  • posted a message on Deck/Primer Hulk Rebirth
    Quote from SNUFFEDxOUT
    This deck is a lot of fun, is there a reason there's so many lands? 21 seems like too much and I found myself getting flooded in a lot of my testing. I ended up cutting a fetch and could even see another land being cut over another one drop.


    Are you testing alone on your kitchen table or do you talk about testing against real opponent playing Wasteland + Stifle and removal for your mana creatures? Test this against RUG Tempo and I garanty you that 21 lands is not too much. Without Carpet of Flowers, reaching 4 mana is sometime not so easy.

    But the truth is this deck never really "flood" as reaching 7 or 8 mana is also great, allowing you to hardcast Hulk or GSZ for Hulk.
    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
  • posted a message on Deck/Primer Hulk Rebirth
    I played the deck, testing for the 1st time this Enlighten Tutor sideboard yesterday. Only 19 players, meaning 5 swiss rounds. I won my first three rounds, against Spiral Tide, Esperblade (UWb Stone Blade) and UW Stoneblade. At 3-0, I was able to draw the next two round into top 8.

    Unfortunatly I lost the quarterfinal match against UW Stoneblade (same player that I beat on round 3). Since october that was only my second loss to UWx Stoneblade in 16 matches.

    In 4 played rounds, I casted only 1 Enlighten Tutor, despite the fact I sided all 3 in every rounds. I used this Tutor to get Sylvan Library against Esperblade, and the Library won me the game 2 turns latter. That said, the fact that I only run 1 Swarm in my 75 came against me at some point against UW Stoneblade, as I wanted to Zenith for Swarm and was unable because my only 1 Swarm was dead.

    That still not enough test to decide if Enlighten Tutor worth it. Even if it's probably not stellar against blue control deck I think it worth to side-in them in those matchups. That said, I may lower the count to 2 and get back 1 Xantid Swarm in my side.

    @David Orb: Do not cut any Tinder Wall as you need both of them in your deck to be able to hardcast Reveillark or Body Double from your hand when you go off. You need to get 2 Tinder Wall + Wild Cantor from Hulk's trigger to do it.

    About Veteran Explorer: Tinder Wall compete for the same spot and is better in the context of this deck, as it's a better target for Pattern of Rebirth.

    About Sylvan Safekeeper: Most of the time, it will not worth it to sac a land to save a mana creature. I don't think it worth a spot.

    About Diabolic Intent: I tested this card very long time ago. Unfortunatly, before combo we realy need our creatures and cannot spend them at will. In my opinion, Diabolic Intent simply cost too much to be playable.

    About Eureka: If you decide to test this, be sure to run a full playset of Pattern of Rebirth. The card certanly look playable in this deck and deserve a try. At very least, it will probably get opponent to play his Force of Will, clearing the way for your next winning spell. My only concern is deck space: how do you find place for it?

    About 1 Swamp: Just be sure to not lower the count of green sources usable on turn 1. For me 14 is minimal to avoid too much mulligan. If you bring a Swamp, you probably need to cut a Tomb or the Cradle.
    Feel free to make your own testing. I'll be happy if you find a way to improve the deck.
    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
  • posted a message on Deck/Primer Hulk Rebirth
    @aka Dredge: I promise I will update the opening post as soon as I got time but now between job, kids and Magic tournaments, it's simply not possible. Also, if this Enlighten Tutor sideboard work, I will have to change the mana base on the main deck list. For now, I will recommand you to try the list of the opening post with the following changes: +1 Forest, -1 fetchland, +1 Sylvan Library, -1 Pattern of Rebirth. If there is a lot of reanimator in your local meta, put at least 3 or 4 Leyline of the Void or Faerie Macabre in your side to have a chance.

    @Wildchild: As much as I like your side of 2 Null Rod / 2 Faerie Macabre, giving you a chance against both Reanimator and Storm, Sylvan Library is simply too good to pass and essential to beat Hymn to Tourach decks. Give it a try, you'll see: resolving Library always win the game in few turns. I run 1 Library main + 1 in the side since 2 months and half now. I probably got an active Library in 12 to 15 games and won each of those games except 1 against Reanimator.

    I know that Enlighten Tutor is card disadvantage. It's the reason I didn't try it until now. Also, I don't like to be obliged to run 2 Savannah and fetch one early game. But Enlighten Tutor perhaps worth this trouble. My hope is that it will help against Storm, graveyard decks and discards without affecting the good blue matchups. I will see and report my results.

    @David Orb: going 3-0 and then finish 4-3 is certanly a deception but it's still not bad for your first try with the deck. Zoo is definitly a good matchup. First, you will sometime cast NO on turn 2, meaning easy win. When you can't win on turn 2, the key against Zoo is to get Wall of Roots in play as fast as possible. Another solution, with NO in hand, 4 mana + a fetchland, is to fetch for Dryad Arbor and, without passing priority to play NO sacking Arbor. That say, I know Zoo can sometime beat us if they got amazing hand.

    Maverick is also favorable in my opinion, especialy post-side with 4 Slaughter Pact. I generaly try to use GSZ to get Fauna Shaman in that matchup before Teeg came into play. This way, you can use Fauna Shaman to get Rector that you can play around Teeg.

    I don't think that Pernicious Deed is the way to go for this deck. With our Dryad Arbor and all our 1-drop creatures, Deed will be unusable most of the time. Also, Deed can't kill Hulk most of the time. And do not forgot we are a combo deck: taking the control role against aggro is certanly not the way to go, we must go for the fast kill!

    If you give a shot to Enlighten Tutor, I can't think of a better target than Seal of Doom: not an awesome card but at least it can kill Teeg / Mindcensor or other anoying hatebear while it can also kill Hulk or a creature enchanted with Pattern. That said, I would not try to run this Tutor package main deck.

    Finaly, RUG Tempo / Canadian Threshold is only a bad matchup when they play turn 1 Delver. On the play, if you cast a blind Cabal Therapy on turn 1, always name Delver of Secret. We can easily block Snapcaster and Mongoose (if they play it) and Goyf is not that scary as it's slow and a Wall of Roots can often block it. If the game go long enough, you generaly have enough gas for their disruption. Game 2 and 3, Carpet of Flowers is really nuts in that matchup (another reason to try Enlighten Tutor). Just be sure to not walk into Daze or Spell Pierce with them. Sure, Stifle on Pattern or Hulk trigger can be a problem but do not forget that NO for Progenitus is Stifle-proof.
    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
  • posted a message on Deck/Primer Hulk Rebirth
    Be sure I'm always happy to read your posts Wildchild. I'm still playing the deck every week and got realy good results, especialy since the banning of Misstep. My results against various UWx Blade Control decks are simply amazing (11-1-1 in 13 matches since Misstep is gone).

    I have the ambition of updating opening post since sometime now but I miss time to do it and I'm still unsure about my sideboard. My biggest problem are actualy Storm decks and Reanimator. I'm able to beat everything else, but those matchup always feel like auto-lose. And when I put Faerie Macabres and Leyline of the Void in my side, I got paired against Storm, and when I put Null Rod, I got paired against Reanimator...

    This bring me to the crazy idea of trying an Enlighten Tutor sideboard. I got this idea long time ago but never put it to real test. Yesterday, as I went 3-1, losing only to storm and complaining about my 3 useless Leyline in the side, somebody suggest it, making me reconsider the idea.

    I'll play in a tournament for a playset of Force of Will this coming weekend. I'm pretty sure this is the sideboard I'll try:
    3 Slaughter Pact
    3 Carpet of Flowers
    3 Enlighten Tutor
    1 Qasali Pridemage
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Null Rod
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Seal of Doom

    Enlighten Tutor seem good simply because it can always get Pattern of Rebirth. I also already run 1 Sylvan Library main, that can be a good target for Enlighten Tutor (especialy to anwser, at instant speed, let say an Hymn to Tourach). Against blue decks, Carpet is also an awesome target for it. Against Gadock Teeg and Aven Mindcencor, running 3 cards that can put Seal of Doom on the top at instant speed, in addition to 3 Slaughter Pacts, seem nice. Against Storm, entering 1 Null Rod + 1 Canonist + 3 Tutor that can dodge discard seem good. Against graveyard decks, Tormod's Crypt could buy me just enough time to be able to get an active Ooze or the combo off.

    Sure, I'll raise my Savannah count to 2 to allow this to work.

    Anyway, I'll told you how this strange sideboard go for me.
    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
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