So I was searching around through old cards (using cardkingdom's amazing search engine) and I came across something interesting. Breaking Point. I have been out of the loop for a while, but last time I took a burn deck to a legacy tournament I remember dieing to things like goyf. I was thinking this might be better than flamebreak in certain situations (namely situations where you're opponent has several creatures with more than 3 toughness). If they don't want to lose their creatures then they'll probably be in fireblast range, otherwise, the board will be cleared.
What do you guys think?
64 cards is way too much, also swords is way better then paths in this format...you can easily get a playset for 8 or 9 bucks, about half the price of paths
Dude, where can you get them that cheap? You must tell me.
Innocent Blood is about as good as Hymn is in the current meta. It handles the 1-drop creatures that can be so problematic when you are on the draw turn 1. That's Cursecatcher, Goblin Lackey, Noble Hierarch, mana elves, Wild Nacatl, Nimble Mongoose (and yes, Tempo Threshold will drop a turn 1 mongoose once they know they are facing mono-black with some discard). It handles a turn 2 Phyrexian Dreadnought on the draw with a mana left open to handle Daze. It handles many more relevant things than a sorcery that might hit important stuff or might not but that is a dead draw down the road.
Critter rush decks have no problem trading off a small early creature for a big roadblock in the early midgame.
If I had 16 or 17 creatures in the deck then the extra slots would probably be Hymn to Tourach. I have 21 and so there is no room.
No innocent blood is not as good. If you hit someone with hymn, they have two less cards to put on the table (or trade with one of your cards). By mid-game whatever they sac because of innocent blood wouldn't even be on the table if you had hit them hymn, plus another card also. In that situation innocent blood doesn't even trade one for one either, because you lose a creature also. Its just card disadvantage. If you look on deck check the decks that use innocent blood are usually more controlish, like pox and that sort of thing. It just doesn't make sense here.
@theintangiblefatman
This deck (zombies) probably isn't better than Eva Green. Its mana base is more stable and less vulnerable... that's all I can think of off the top of my head.
Hymn to tourach is pure card advantage. It is a crappy topdeck, but so are many other powerful cards, like thoughtseize and dark ritual. Hymn is actually at its best when combined with removal. You're running top, so if your only reason for not running hymn is that its a bad top-deck then you really have no argument. If your argument is that removal is more relevant, all I can say is that the best strategy is to use both. I'd say play hymn instead of innocent blood. You run so many creatures than innocent blood will always be card disadvantage.
Any black tribal deck in Legacy must make room for 4 Dark Confidant. You can't leave the most powerful non-beater in Legacy out of the equation just because they don't meet tribal requirements.
I like the first list -3 Graveborn Muse and -1 Rotlung Reanimator and +4 Dark Confidant.
Having said that, Vampires is probably already the strongest black tribe with the Worldwake printing.
I don't know if I was just lucky or not but I didn't have that much trouble with enchantress. I lost the first game because I took a one land hand and didn't draw a second mountain the whole game. I had enough burn in my hand to kill him before the confinement lock came down but I couldn't play it. I won the next 2 games quickly before the lock came down without any trouble (I sided in a few anarchy but didn't see any). But yeah, I'll post again after trying out disk and let you know how it went.
Why not throw in Disciple of the Vault just for the fun of it? Every egg you cycle through will damage your opponent so you won't need to get your storm count as high for tendrils.
Everlasting torment won't stop a solitary confinement lock against enchantress though. Anarchy would work in that situation but so would nevinyrral's disk. The disk also handles chalice, trinisphere and countertop. That's why I like the idea of disk. It's slow, but its also versatile, so it leaves more space in the sideboard for other necessary things. I haven't tried it yet though to be honest. I'm going to pick up a few before the my next tournament (I lost to countertop last week) and see how it works out.
I run both pithing needle and REBs against countertops. Against stax I use shattering spree. But I wouldn't use it MD unless your meta swarms with staxs
What do you side out for the pithing needle and REB against countertop?
Man I'm having the same problem figuring out the best SB against countertop. Pithing needle seems like the best option to me so far, but it can easily get FOWed early game. Shusher is just too easy to kill. I haven't tried REB yet. How does that work out? It seems like there is no real answer.
That last list I posted wasn't meant to be critiqued or challenged, so stop, just an idea deck for those clamoring for Brdige/Ankh/Blast. Magus turns my nonbasic into mountains, that doesnt hurt at all (helps Figure fot that matter) and what idiot would play Magus when it hurts them to play it (like I have 3 Factory and a few Ports owning the board, It's Moon time yaaay...). The deck requires a Bridge or Ankh to hit play, hence the SDT. But it was just an idea, so is Pillage. I've tested it a bunch on MWS...thats what I do (test lots of Red decks in my meta and on MWS), its fun to play but not seriously competitive. And never run fetches with Ankh...ever, its quite painful. Remember I've been using Red and playing Burn/Sligh/RDW decks competitvely since I began playing Magic in the mid 90's...don't critique me if I don't ask for it (which is why I wrote that disclaimer before I posted the decklist). Take it and run with it if you like, but this isn't the board to post about it... This is a board to talk about Burn and Burn alone. Contact me through PM if you are actually interested in working on it or any other decklist that is red...
No need to get your feelings hurt. I just wanted to throw my thoughts out there about SDT since I'd thought about using it in a straight ahead burn deck and I decided it wasn't a good idea. Usually when people post deck lists on a thread in proven competitive it's for the purpose of critique. If you don't like being critiqued go somewhere else. I post on this thread because I want to improve my deck and my play skill with burn. The discussion has been mostly beneficial to me and I appreciate it. You are not moving discussion in that direction.
It seems kind of pointless to run SDT without shuffle effects. I thought about using SDT in a burn deck. It requires a continual mana investment to stay 3 deep into your deck. Without a way to shuffle away unwanted cards (like extra lands for instance) then you just have to keep spending 1 every turn to keep the unwanted cards off the top of the deck. It seems like it would be better just to use magma jet to improve card quality. Otherwise add fetchlands.
Also magus of the moon makes many of your lands useless. I'm guessing the pillage is there to destroy basic lands after magus comes down, but I still think its not a good card here. Maybe more burn would be better.
What do you guys think?
Dude, where can you get them that cheap? You must tell me.
No innocent blood is not as good. If you hit someone with hymn, they have two less cards to put on the table (or trade with one of your cards). By mid-game whatever they sac because of innocent blood wouldn't even be on the table if you had hit them hymn, plus another card also. In that situation innocent blood doesn't even trade one for one either, because you lose a creature also. Its just card disadvantage. If you look on deck check the decks that use innocent blood are usually more controlish, like pox and that sort of thing. It just doesn't make sense here.
@theintangiblefatman
This deck (zombies) probably isn't better than Eva Green. Its mana base is more stable and less vulnerable... that's all I can think of off the top of my head.
You forgot hymn to tourach.
I like urdjur's idea of using nevinyrral's disk as a sort of catch all to answer those kind of shenanigans.
What do you side out for the pithing needle and REB against countertop?
Man I'm having the same problem figuring out the best SB against countertop. Pithing needle seems like the best option to me so far, but it can easily get FOWed early game. Shusher is just too easy to kill. I haven't tried REB yet. How does that work out? It seems like there is no real answer.
No need to get your feelings hurt. I just wanted to throw my thoughts out there about SDT since I'd thought about using it in a straight ahead burn deck and I decided it wasn't a good idea. Usually when people post deck lists on a thread in proven competitive it's for the purpose of critique. If you don't like being critiqued go somewhere else. I post on this thread because I want to improve my deck and my play skill with burn. The discussion has been mostly beneficial to me and I appreciate it. You are not moving discussion in that direction.
Also magus of the moon makes many of your lands useless. I'm guessing the pillage is there to destroy basic lands after magus comes down, but I still think its not a good card here. Maybe more burn would be better.