What are your thoughts in completely removing Koth for the red hero? I'm thinking of putting koth in the SB. We can play a very aggressive game 1 with 4 bolts, 3 arc trails and 2 JTN.
My first reaction is that I don't like it. Koth just wins the control matchup if you can stick him. That being said, either Koth is our best 4 drop or Hero is, so it seems to me that if we're running 3+ 4 drops (excepting bonehoard), 3 of them should be Koth or there should be no Koth. I'm skeptical of the 2 Koth, X Hero splits, my own included.
Since you play with ruinblasters in the side, you can actually a single copy of tectonic edge as your 26th land. You can even have 3 ruinblasters and the 2nd tectonic in the side for more hate
That's probably the best option, maybe MD: -1 land, +1 SoFaF, SB: -1 SoFaF, -1 Ruinblaster SB, +1 Edge, +1 Mark
I personally have never liked journey to nowhere to begin with and have switched slots with arc trail long time ago.
There is just too many big creatures where you have basically already lost even if you do get to JtN them (Titans come to mind...). If everybody now starts playing wurmcoil that may be another thing but as for now...
More reasons for Journey: Bloodghast, Overgrown Battlement, anything with Argentum Armor on it, Vengevine, Wall of Omens, Kor Firewalker. Admittedly some of those are fairly rare. But the point is that is that it isn't just there for Titans.
Is goblin guide worth playing anymore? it seems like in every match after the second turn he gets killed. It doesnt seem as efficent and I would rather just play hero of bladehood over him... Any suggestions?
The deck needs the 1-drops for tempo. If guide doesn't eat the removal, something else does later anyway, but at least we get 4+ damage in with the guide in the mean time. And sandbagging guides and heroes for post wrath is just delicious. Or with a gear on the table, guides and fetches.
I went for this build to hate out control with Koth and Oxid.. and a bit vs black decks. If my aggro can't handle the my opposing aggro that's when I board in the heroes and removal. I usually go -3 hero, -2 koth, -4 guide, -1 journey, +3 hero +4 cunning +1 collar +3 arc trail. I'm not sure if that's the right move but it was ok for me. But there are games when arcs + white hero was enough for me to win the game.
I'm not sold on the the white hero yet mainly because there are only so many slots in the sb. The only way I run her is if I cut the sparkmage package. Incidentally, I've found that Guide is worth keeping in for the Kred matchup because he's an early blocker that actually kills at least one of their dudes all on his own. Here's my current list, which is eerily similar to yours:
59/60 I'm pretty happy with. The 26th land is the only card I'm unsure about. It's nice with all the 4 drops that come in against control and let's be honest, this deck can abuse land. That slot is basically a toss up between the land, SoFaF, another gear, and a burn spell (burst lightning or arc trail). I don't like the 3rd hero main because of how top-heavy it makes the curve when I'm also running Bonehoard. Bonehoard is still in it's testing phase, and if it gets replaced with anything, it'll probably be the 3rd hero.
The SB is still rough. I'd really like the 4th Mark to be in there. Valakut got a lot of new tools and I expect to see it all over the place, but I'm not sure how to fit another one in. Maybe move the sword main for the extra land.
I agree, having the red hero in the place of spikeshot. I took out spikeshots for him and never looked back. It can win you games especially vs control. But I also have the white hero in my board for mid range creature decks or decks with heavy removal. So if you have a matchup where you can't win with the red hero, bladehold get boarded in.
I tried white hero + arc trails in the vampire matchup and it did pretty well
Kred is just overhyped. There were so many of them and how many made it to top 16?
I'm pretty sure that's right. It folds to mass removal or a well timed mana leak. Pyroclasm, Slagstorm, Ratchet Bomb, and Black Sun's Zenith all wreck the deck for <=3 mana.
after reading this, i've a few questions. i dont mean to be overly-critical, but..
1) most people board out goblin guide against vamps right..? and even if you leave them in, is it wrong to attack with them even on an empty board?
It's wrong to leave them in against aggro, except maybe against Quest where you're just racing their combo. Normally they're replaced with more removal - Sparkmage + Collar. Given that they're in though, and that he was playing against vamps and not boros, I think attacking on an empty board is the right move. (Never attack with Guides in the mirror. Well, usually.)
2) whats the point of bringing in kor firewalkers? yes, their immune to burn and they might gain you 1-2 life, but they cant attack or block because they trade with every creature in their deck
They can block Lavaclaw... but I agree. There are much better options against vamps.
3) why act of trason over mark of mutiny
Act of treason is easier to get ahold of. It's a common!
4) sword of feast and famine didnt seem to do much. isnt this the matchup where it shines?
The problem is that their removal is mostly burn or doesn't target (Gatekeeper). This is also why Mirran Crusader doesn't do much in that matchup. SoFaF isn't as good against the B/x decks as we would have hoped.
5) mirran crusader or spikeshot elder? they both wear equipment very well. spikeshot comes down earlier, but is pretty subpar unless you have equipment.
That depends on if you're running Koth. You don't really want to have to have WW on turn 3, then RR on turn 4. The manabase is too fragile for that, especially with Spreading Seas in the format. I've tried crusader builds and koth + spikeshot builds. Right now, I favor the koth builds, but it's early. I'm also trying replacing the spikeshots for 2x Hero of Oxid Ridge and 1 land/Burst Lightning/Stoneforge/Adventuring Gear/etc...
I'm am testing out crusader. I took out spikeshot for him. So far he has been fantastic about against my friend's UB control with the shape anew- blightsteel cololssus combo. It works great against that. Equiped with either a Sword or Gear the double strike makes it a beast.
That said- I have only really tried it against one deck, but I really do love the double strike. And although spikeshot was fantastic for me in a few matches, overall, it is my least favorite card in the deck.
I did the same thing, but also moved Koth to the SB in favor of Stoneforges and artifacts in order to keep the manabase from imploding. Not sure if I'd rather have Koth or Crusader main yet, though if Abyssal Persecuters start showing up in UB lists again, crusader gets the nod for sure.
His choice to basically go -1 JtN, -1 Bolt +2 Arc Trail is interesting I guess, but I feel it's subpar. Especially if you expected lots of Valakut, which I definitely would have.
It might have been a metagame call, and if it was it was a good one. The T16 was filled with aggro lists.
Taking out Spikeshots for more top end guys (Crusader, Hero) is risky, and I'm not sure I agree, especially if youre going to put in another Sword (which would help SS). It's worth trying though.
I agree, but spikeshot is also probably the easiest to cut for these guys. My biggest problem with this configuration is that I don't like the manabase requiring WW and RR at the same time. We don't want spreading seas to be that effective against us, and UB was our worst matchup before.
Where I really can't agree is his SB. Ignus is crap, and there's no reason to run Act of Treason over Mark of Mutiny. I'm not sure there's enough Revoker targets for it to be useful quite yet. What is it really going to name besides Jace that we care about? (And that we would board it in against)
Overgrown Battlement, Viscera Seer, Bloodthrone Vampire, Koth, etc. I'm just brainstorming. Probably not worth it. It does dodge GftT against UB though.
The more interesting Boros list was lower in the T16:
MD is basically -1 Koth -1 JtN -1 Spikeshot -1 Adventuring Gear for +1 Bonehoard +1 Sword +1 Stoneforge +1 Burst Lightning. Less Koth is a good metagame call if you expect more beatdown, which is reasonable immediately after a new set is released. Trading a JtN for a Burst gives the deck more reach but less ability to deal with big creatures. I'm not sure about it, but it seems worth testing. Otherwise, there's just a stronger reliance on the stoneforge package. The deck has a little more midgame punch this way and plenty of ways to get damage in around green walls. Personally, I'd go +1 Koth, -1 Something to begin testing.
The SB is almost purely anti aggro. Outside of MoM and Ruinblaster, everything in there is for aggro. Maybe a good metagame call, but not sustainable long term. Arc Trails over Slagstorm/Pyroclasm, notice.
Looking at this list, I don't really like it. The three main things we get from red (Bolt, Arc Trail, and Lavaclaw) do much for this deck and nothing in black really seems to make up for that. We get a little better consistency with the mana, but less threats, less reach, and less ability to deal with fast aggro decks. Running red just isn't that painful with all these Duals. The only wildcard in all of this is how much we benefit by running Tec Edge.
It just occurred to me: Mind Sludge.
The list that won Starcity notably didn't run Blade of the Bloodchief or Bloodthrone Vampire. I'm not sure if I like that build or not once the metagame gets settled. Judging from the T16, it seemed like a good metagame call though - very few control decks up there. The extra speed probably helped.
Thanks a lot for the response, can you show me your current BR Vamps build? I think my problem is seeing how the deck works while looking at it on paper - I've watched detailed games of it (mirror matches included) on YT but still think I'd need to play it to get a feel for it.
I don't have a current build to be honest, but if I were to play vamps tomorrow, it would probably be something like yoavrr's list, except -4 Lacerator, +1 Tutelage, +3 IoK/Duress depending on the metagame.
Against aggro my plan is +3 bladehold, +3 cunning + 1 basilisk, +2 slagstorm -4 guide -2 koth, -3 jtn. It was suggested by SwoolyswoND to take out guides vs aggro matchups.
Def. take out guides. I'm not too sure about JtN though, at least against Vamps and Quest. It takes down anything with Blade of the Bloodchief counters or Argentenum Armor on it. I'll test this configuration and see how it works.
That's 9 sb cards for aggro though, so only 6 slots left for ramp and control, or 5 if you include the other sword sb. I'm not sure those are the margins that I want to be playing, but I could see it as a metagame call.
Slagstorm used to be arc trail... I don't like pyro because it's just a sweeper. Slagstorm has more reach and can help you recover from a bad position.
Do you ever find yourself wishing that Slagstorm was just 1 mana cheeper? I could definitely see it happening against Kuldotha Red, but not as often against the other aggro decks.
A 2/1 First Striker for 2 is not a bad card in any match, side it against aggro and PW-heavy decks if you don't like it. It is an unusual card but your meta is hugely important in using such a card. I use it in my MBC and it's great to have it in there to snipe PWs when needed but even if not it's still a well-costed creature in the context of the deck, when I'm just handling their critters until I drop Persecutor.
Here's my first crack at a monoblack Vamps deck. I didn't put in any discard because I want this to be fast and aggressive, not midrange. I want to be spending mana on activated abilities and more black weenies to sac and swing with, that's just me. Dropping red for me means
Tectonics
Removal that can hit big threats, not just generate early-game advantage
Speed (no taplands, Tutelage, quick and dirty removal all game long)
Not changing the manabase to accomodate a handful of cards that I favour black cards over, personally
This is my first attempt so go easy, however I've reasoned out the choices in my head. There are other Vamp cards that I like but don't think fit the bill of a quick and brutal game (Blade, others)
No fetchlands for Bloodghast? No Blade of the Bloodchief? Running some amount of discard is probably also a good idea. IoK is the best bet if you don't want to give up too much against aggro. Nailing Squadron Hawk is absolutely HUGE against Boros game 1 (trust me, I mostly play Boros). Really, what I'm saying is that I think the midrange version is better. Vamps just isn't explosive enough. What it has is a ridiculously powerful mid-late game with Highborn and BotB nonsense.
4 edge and 8 fetches is probably too many of both. 3 and 6 might be more appropriate. Having triple black is crucial for Highborn and Gatekeeper, and the extra life loss probably isn't worth so many fetches to abuse Bloodghast. The SB would include DodG, Hexmage, and maybe Duress and Nighthawk. I'm not too sure about it. The Gatekeepers MD could easily be replaced by Hexmages or Nighthawks in this list.
Looking at this list, I don't really like it. The three main things we get from red (Bolt, Arc Trail, and Lavaclaw) do much for this deck and nothing in black really seems to make up for that. We get a little better consistency with the mana, but less threats, less reach, and less ability to deal with fast aggro decks. Running red just isn't that painful with all these Duals. The only wildcard in all of this is how much we benefit by running Tec Edge.
then i looked at it again, and thought: in the whole deck including sideboard i play 7 red spells, all of which are removal spells i side out agaisnt ramp and control. now with the printing of GftT, why do i even need red? demon is much better against ramp than mark, and 4 arc trails are not nescecery when i already bring alot of removal. why play tap lands at all? so, i buit this deck:
this deck seems much more consistent to me (i didnt playtest yet) - no tap lands and less vulnerable to spreading seas, but no burn as well. the loss of red can hurt the aggro MU, so i overloaded on hate to this - 9 sideboard cards come in.
this deck also seems much better against control - with no tap lands, i can play inquisition main without hurting my curve too much (playing it t3 with a 2 drop or t1, which i couldnt most of the time with tap lands).
i dropped dark tutelage from the main becasue its much worse without burn, and this deck is already good against control, so i dont need it g1. for game 2 i side:
-2 disfigure
+2 dark tutelage.
and if it's caw go then:
-2 disfigure
-3 gftt
+2 dakr tutelage
+3 nighthawk
so, what do you think? is losing bolt and arc trail worth it for a more consistent mana base and inquisition main? i think so.
Leaving out red, you lose not only Bolt and Arc Trail, but Lavaclaw Reaches, which is very good. This is me thinking out loud: red gives you a bit more reach and better removal. Black has nothing that can replace Bolt effectively, unfortunately. Also, Arc Trail is the best 2 for 1 removal spell Vamps can run. Sure, Gatekeeper is a 2 for 1, but it doesn't kill their most dangerous threat and when it tries to kill a second threat against Boros, their creatures are big. Skinrender is nice here, but is slow at turn 4. Vampire Nighthawk is another good option since we're talking about mono black. Life gain rather than removal might be the strategy if you stay in black. I do like the idea, only because of GftT, but losing Lavaclaw is very very bad. My guess is that on balance, BR will be better than monoB, but it's not as clear now that GftT is available.
It might be worth considering UB for Creeping Tar Pits and any other goodies blue can bring since GftT makes the removal more flexible. Brainstorm: Mana Leak, Narcolepsy, Preordain, Spreading Seas, Turn Aside, maybe Jace 1.0. Not a lot there. I'm not sure I like adding counterspells to this deck, and only Narcolepsy really catches my eye. Blue probably isn't worth it.
Dark Tutelage stays in the deck no matter what though. That card is nuts against control whether or not we're running red.
I also tried Bladehold as a SB card against aggro. This bomb is amazing... Things get nasty when you are able to swing with her. To avoid having tons of 4 drops, I boarded out koth on game 2 and 3.
That's an interesting idea, and it also gets around the "should I go for double red or double white first?" problem. What else were you bringing in against aggro with this plan? What were you taking out?
Slagstorm is nice as a 2 of. Those 2 slots were arc trails for me. The sweeper helped me for several games. I know our creatures can die also, but it helps us recover from a bad board position.
Everone likes Bonehoard. It is really awesome. Just read Chapin´s set review and he likes it too.
So does Conley. I think it's an auto include in the deck and the only card from MBS I would say that about (others are worth testing). But the problem is, what to cut? Currently I'm replacing a gear with it, but the best move might be something else. Maybe spikeshot elder?
My first reaction is that I don't like it. Koth just wins the control matchup if you can stick him. That being said, either Koth is our best 4 drop or Hero is, so it seems to me that if we're running 3+ 4 drops (excepting bonehoard), 3 of them should be Koth or there should be no Koth. I'm skeptical of the 2 Koth, X Hero splits, my own included.
That's probably the best option, maybe MD: -1 land, +1 SoFaF, SB: -1 SoFaF, -1 Ruinblaster SB, +1 Edge, +1 Mark
Nope.
More reasons for Journey: Bloodghast, Overgrown Battlement, anything with Argentum Armor on it, Vengevine, Wall of Omens, Kor Firewalker. Admittedly some of those are fairly rare. But the point is that is that it isn't just there for Titans.
The deck needs the 1-drops for tempo. If guide doesn't eat the removal, something else does later anyway, but at least we get 4+ damage in with the guide in the mean time. And sandbagging guides and heroes for post wrath is just delicious. Or with a gear on the table, guides and fetches.
I'm not sold on the the white hero yet mainly because there are only so many slots in the sb. The only way I run her is if I cut the sparkmage package. Incidentally, I've found that Guide is worth keeping in for the Kred matchup because he's an early blocker that actually kills at least one of their dudes all on his own. Here's my current list, which is eerily similar to yours:
4x Plated Geopede
4x Steppe Lynx
4x Goblin Guide
3x Stoneforge Mystic
2x Hero of Oxid Ridge
4x Squadron Hawk
2x Koth of the Hammer
Equipments: 4
1x Sword of Body and Mind
1x Bonehoard
2x Adventuring Gear
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Journey to Nowhere
Lands: 26
4x Arid Mesa
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Marsh Flats
5x Mountain
5x Plains
4x Evolving Wilds
3x Goblin Ruinblaster
3x Arc Trail
3x Cunning Sparkmage
1x Basilisk Collar
1x Koth of the Hammer
3x Mark of Mutiny
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
59/60 I'm pretty happy with. The 26th land is the only card I'm unsure about. It's nice with all the 4 drops that come in against control and let's be honest, this deck can abuse land. That slot is basically a toss up between the land, SoFaF, another gear, and a burn spell (burst lightning or arc trail). I don't like the 3rd hero main because of how top-heavy it makes the curve when I'm also running Bonehoard. Bonehoard is still in it's testing phase, and if it gets replaced with anything, it'll probably be the 3rd hero.
The SB is still rough. I'd really like the 4th Mark to be in there. Valakut got a lot of new tools and I expect to see it all over the place, but I'm not sure how to fit another one in. Maybe move the sword main for the extra land.
Can you post your sb?
I'm pretty sure that's right. It folds to mass removal or a well timed mana leak. Pyroclasm, Slagstorm, Ratchet Bomb, and Black Sun's Zenith all wreck the deck for <=3 mana.
It's wrong to leave them in against aggro, except maybe against Quest where you're just racing their combo. Normally they're replaced with more removal - Sparkmage + Collar. Given that they're in though, and that he was playing against vamps and not boros, I think attacking on an empty board is the right move. (Never attack with Guides in the mirror. Well, usually.)
They can block Lavaclaw... but I agree. There are much better options against vamps.
Act of treason is easier to get ahold of. It's a common!
The problem is that their removal is mostly burn or doesn't target (Gatekeeper). This is also why Mirran Crusader doesn't do much in that matchup. SoFaF isn't as good against the B/x decks as we would have hoped.
That depends on if you're running Koth. You don't really want to have to have WW on turn 3, then RR on turn 4. The manabase is too fragile for that, especially with Spreading Seas in the format. I've tried crusader builds and koth + spikeshot builds. Right now, I favor the koth builds, but it's early. I'm also trying replacing the spikeshots for 2x Hero of Oxid Ridge and 1 land/Burst Lightning/Stoneforge/Adventuring Gear/etc...
Pro black
I did the same thing, but also moved Koth to the SB in favor of Stoneforges and artifacts in order to keep the manabase from imploding. Not sure if I'd rather have Koth or Crusader main yet, though if Abyssal Persecuters start showing up in UB lists again, crusader gets the nod for sure.
It might have been a metagame call, and if it was it was a good one. The T16 was filled with aggro lists.
I agree, but spikeshot is also probably the easiest to cut for these guys. My biggest problem with this configuration is that I don't like the manabase requiring WW and RR at the same time. We don't want spreading seas to be that effective against us, and UB was our worst matchup before.
Overgrown Battlement, Viscera Seer, Bloodthrone Vampire, Koth, etc. I'm just brainstorming. Probably not worth it. It does dodge GftT against UB though.
The more interesting Boros list was lower in the T16:
2 Adventuring Gear
1 Bonehoard
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
Creatures
4 Goblin Guide
4 Plated Geopede
2 Spikeshot Elder
4 Squadron Hawk
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Journey to Nowhere
Instants
1 Burst Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
Planeswalkers
1 Koth of the Hammer
Basic Lands
5 Mountain
5 Plains
Lands
4 Arid Mesa
4 Marsh Flats
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Basilisk Collar
3 Cunning Sparkmage
2 Goblin Ruinblaster
2 Kor Firewalker
4 Arc Trail
3 Mark of Mutiny
MD is basically -1 Koth -1 JtN -1 Spikeshot -1 Adventuring Gear for +1 Bonehoard +1 Sword +1 Stoneforge +1 Burst Lightning. Less Koth is a good metagame call if you expect more beatdown, which is reasonable immediately after a new set is released. Trading a JtN for a Burst gives the deck more reach but less ability to deal with big creatures. I'm not sure about it, but it seems worth testing. Otherwise, there's just a stronger reliance on the stoneforge package. The deck has a little more midgame punch this way and plenty of ways to get damage in around green walls. Personally, I'd go +1 Koth, -1 Something to begin testing.
The SB is almost purely anti aggro. Outside of MoM and Ruinblaster, everything in there is for aggro. Maybe a good metagame call, but not sustainable long term. Arc Trails over Slagstorm/Pyroclasm, notice.
It just occurred to me: Mind Sludge.
The list that won Starcity notably didn't run Blade of the Bloodchief or Bloodthrone Vampire. I'm not sure if I like that build or not once the metagame gets settled. Judging from the T16, it seemed like a good metagame call though - very few control decks up there. The extra speed probably helped.
I don't have a current build to be honest, but if I were to play vamps tomorrow, it would probably be something like yoavrr's list, except -4 Lacerator, +1 Tutelage, +3 IoK/Duress depending on the metagame.
Def. take out guides. I'm not too sure about JtN though, at least against Vamps and Quest. It takes down anything with Blade of the Bloodchief counters or Argentenum Armor on it. I'll test this configuration and see how it works.
That's 9 sb cards for aggro though, so only 6 slots left for ramp and control, or 5 if you include the other sword sb. I'm not sure those are the margins that I want to be playing, but I could see it as a metagame call.
Do you ever find yourself wishing that Slagstorm was just 1 mana cheeper? I could definitely see it happening against Kuldotha Red, but not as often against the other aggro decks.
No fetchlands for Bloodghast? No Blade of the Bloodchief? Running some amount of discard is probably also a good idea. IoK is the best bet if you don't want to give up too much against aggro. Nailing Squadron Hawk is absolutely HUGE against Boros game 1 (trust me, I mostly play Boros). Really, what I'm saying is that I think the midrange version is better. Vamps just isn't explosive enough. What it has is a ridiculously powerful mid-late game with Highborn and BotB nonsense.
Here's my first approximation at a mono-B deck:
11 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacomb
4 Marsh Flats
4 Tectonic Edge
4 Viscera Seer
4 Pulse Tracker
4 Kalastria Highborn
4 Bloodghast
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Bloodthrone Vampire
4 Blade of the Bloodchief
4 Dark Tutelage
3 Go for the Throat
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 edge and 8 fetches is probably too many of both. 3 and 6 might be more appropriate. Having triple black is crucial for Highborn and Gatekeeper, and the extra life loss probably isn't worth so many fetches to abuse Bloodghast. The SB would include DodG, Hexmage, and maybe Duress and Nighthawk. I'm not too sure about it. The Gatekeepers MD could easily be replaced by Hexmages or Nighthawks in this list.
Looking at this list, I don't really like it. The three main things we get from red (Bolt, Arc Trail, and Lavaclaw) do much for this deck and nothing in black really seems to make up for that. We get a little better consistency with the mana, but less threats, less reach, and less ability to deal with fast aggro decks. Running red just isn't that painful with all these Duals. The only wildcard in all of this is how much we benefit by running Tec Edge.
Leaving out red, you lose not only Bolt and Arc Trail, but Lavaclaw Reaches, which is very good. This is me thinking out loud: red gives you a bit more reach and better removal. Black has nothing that can replace Bolt effectively, unfortunately. Also, Arc Trail is the best 2 for 1 removal spell Vamps can run. Sure, Gatekeeper is a 2 for 1, but it doesn't kill their most dangerous threat and when it tries to kill a second threat against Boros, their creatures are big. Skinrender is nice here, but is slow at turn 4. Vampire Nighthawk is another good option since we're talking about mono black. Life gain rather than removal might be the strategy if you stay in black. I do like the idea, only because of GftT, but losing Lavaclaw is very very bad. My guess is that on balance, BR will be better than monoB, but it's not as clear now that GftT is available.
It might be worth considering UB for Creeping Tar Pits and any other goodies blue can bring since GftT makes the removal more flexible. Brainstorm: Mana Leak, Narcolepsy, Preordain, Spreading Seas, Turn Aside, maybe Jace 1.0. Not a lot there. I'm not sure I like adding counterspells to this deck, and only Narcolepsy really catches my eye. Blue probably isn't worth it.
Dark Tutelage stays in the deck no matter what though. That card is nuts against control whether or not we're running red.
That's an interesting idea, and it also gets around the "should I go for double red or double white first?" problem. What else were you bringing in against aggro with this plan? What were you taking out?
Have you tried pyroclasm instead?
So does Conley. I think it's an auto include in the deck and the only card from MBS I would say that about (others are worth testing). But the problem is, what to cut? Currently I'm replacing a gear with it, but the best move might be something else. Maybe spikeshot elder?