I run a dredge deck with four copies of dread return and already have flame-kin zealot, sphinx of lost truths, and iona, shield of emeria but want one more dread return target. Got any suggestions?
If you want more big creatures, you could try Inkwell Leviathan, Ancestor's Chosen in or out of the board, maybe even Akroma, Angel of Wrath. Those could work, but you're running the stock targets already, I mean you wouldn't want to open with a bunch of them in hand.
Is there anyway to fit Goyf in here. I know that will sound like a noob, which is fine, because I am to extended and most of these cards. It just seems that this deck is a perfect fit for him as he would be large right away.
I dont think Goyf is right for this deck, he's far too vanilla. After all, the deck is supposed to function as a combo deck rather than an aggro deck. Granted, he will get big, its just the other stuff off of dread return is bigger and better.
I'm going to be extensively testing a set of Deft Duelists in our two drop creature slot, along with 2 Elements.
I tested Deft Duelist myself, being resistant to the spot removal was great and the first strike was nice as well. But it's really frail without an exalted boost from another source. It also made me frown when I had a duelist on the board with either an Elspeth or a Behemoth Sledge out.
That being said I never even bothered testing Brave the Elements with it.
Your deck is pretty much the same as mine, save that Im running m/b Negate, s/b Harms Way, and no Boa.
Glad to see the Sledges are working for you. I see you dropped Inflitrators why? After all, Infiltrator and Sledge make a pretty good team. I mean I guess I see the reasoning with boa keeping itself alive and whatnot, but I'd still try and play Jhessian Infiltrator.
I mean boa still dies to the same thing Infiltrator dies to. Terminate, Disfigure, PtE, stray Bant Charm. I guess not dying to burn is pretty good, but is the lack of evasion worth it?
Sledge is pretty good, I've been playing it as a one of m/b for while with another in the side. Sometimes it conflicts with playing guys early game, but turning birds into a threat late game is awesome.
I'm not entirely sure about Jace in this deck. I tested him myself a while back, and of course he does net card advantage. As an aggro deck, I felt like I would rather want to play cards that actively affect the board position rather than play him and have nothing change on the board.
I can see the deck going down to 2-3 Bant Charms (right now I'm playing 4), it is true they may not do as much as they use to, but they're still very versatile and still a vital piece of removal for Bant.
Deft Duelist? In the sideboard, I would assume, at least. Wrecks Hellsparks, Ball Lightnings, Elemental Appeal ... x/1 trample hasters get owned by something that can't be Bolted.
Deft Duelist does wreak havoc against RDW, but besides that, it really doesn't do much. I mean Celestial Purge does pretty much the same thing as well as stop unearth on Hellspark, hit black creatures, and not die to fallout.
I ended up testing duelist for a while, don't get me wrong, it was pretty good. It basically could get through most creatures with an exalted boost, but without that extra exalted punch, it was too frail by itself.
precisely. vines almost insures that your already pumped up rhox or jenara is gonna get through with double striking for roughly 10. if you can pay the kicker, make it 18, either way works just fine ;p
In that case, wouldn't that just make Vines a bad Negate? I'm still not entirely sold on it, it just doesn't do enough by itself.
That sounds like dreadful advice. 4 Noble / 3 Birds is a pretty universal number. If it tests well for him, there's no reason to change it. Also, Bant Charm doesn't counter Day of Judgement, the one spell this deck really needs to be concerned with. Don't drop Negate, or Bant Charm for that matter... list looks fine to me. If anything, I'd drop Vines... it leaves a big hole to be 2-for'd.
I never said that Charm could counter DoJ, what I said was that if there was a lot of DoJ he should drop Charm instead Negate. But I do agree with you that Vines should be dropped, its basically a more limited Hindering Light, without the card advantage. Does 4x Hierarch 3x BoP really work better, because I haven't really had any problem hitting turn 1 accel, turn 2 3 drop off of 4x Heirarchs 2x Birds. Whatever, if 4-3 works better then I'll try it.
I'd probably say drop a Negate/Bant Charm and a Birds of Paradise. I found that 6 mana dorks is the right number and having too many birds is bad considering it just turns into a summoning sick land, at least Hierarch can go in for 1 point. I'd say drop Negate because Bant Charm is more versatile, but if your meta is going to have a lot of DoJ you could drop the bant charm instead.
I still think MDing Sable Stag is a must, now that mono black is so strong and U/W control seems very viable. At the worst it's a 3/3 for 3, at best it gets around pesky Doom Blades / Wall of Denials. They can always be sided out game 2, but for an unknown t2 meta, I'd say they're a solid choice for the main.
I don't know if that's a good idea, I mean don't get me wrong Stag is great against monoblack postboard, I'll be the first to admit that.
I mean outside of monoblack which still has gatekeeper of malakir, and anything wall of denial it's kinda just subpar. Against the mirror its just a 3/3 for 3 with problue which is pretty good , but Jund/Cascade Shenanigans has Lightning bolt and Resounding Thunder. What did you drop for them in the m/b?
So I got around to testing Kor Skyfisher and I've got to say, I'm not totally sold on it. And I know the whole "it dies to removal" arguement is all played out, I had enough of that with Tarmogoyf when it was around.
Kor Skyfisher ends up creating a lot of tempo disadvantage when he gets killed off immediately. Usually goes:
I play the Kor, bouncing my turn 1 mana dork then the Kor gets shot down leaving me wondering why my board just got up and left.
Or: I play the Kor, bounce a land and it eats PTE, and I find myself asking if I just got time walked.
Of course I play in a removal heavy meta where everyone and their grandmother plays path to exile.
What do you guys think of Lord of Extinction as a 2 or 3 of in conjunction with Baneslayer at the top of the curve? His synergy with Knight of the Reliquary and the fetches is pretty good.
While adding black does give a lot of access to hard removal and more disruption it would make casting his turn 1-3 cards harder. You'll probably end up have to play all 4x Akoum Refuge and 4x Dragonskull Summit to guarantee a black source (probably still not enough depending what you play black for).
While the summit wouldn't be so bad since you can almost guarantee it will be untapped, drawing the refuge land early would be terrible. It would also make Valakut less reliable, but that's not a big deal. I don't know, it just seems like trying to force a black splash in a deck playing cards that cost RRR and RRRR is bad idea.
If you want more big creatures, you could try Inkwell Leviathan, Ancestor's Chosen in or out of the board, maybe even Akroma, Angel of Wrath. Those could work, but you're running the stock targets already, I mean you wouldn't want to open with a bunch of them in hand.
I dont think Goyf is right for this deck, he's far too vanilla. After all, the deck is supposed to function as a combo deck rather than an aggro deck. Granted, he will get big, its just the other stuff off of dread return is bigger and better.
I tested Deft Duelist myself, being resistant to the spot removal was great and the first strike was nice as well. But it's really frail without an exalted boost from another source. It also made me frown when I had a duelist on the board with either an Elspeth or a Behemoth Sledge out.
That being said I never even bothered testing Brave the Elements with it.
Your deck is pretty much the same as mine, save that Im running m/b Negate, s/b Harms Way, and no Boa.
Glad to see the Sledges are working for you. I see you dropped Inflitrators why? After all, Infiltrator and Sledge make a pretty good team. I mean I guess I see the reasoning with boa keeping itself alive and whatnot, but I'd still try and play Jhessian Infiltrator.
I mean boa still dies to the same thing Infiltrator dies to. Terminate, Disfigure, PtE, stray Bant Charm. I guess not dying to burn is pretty good, but is the lack of evasion worth it?
I can see the deck going down to 2-3 Bant Charms (right now I'm playing 4), it is true they may not do as much as they use to, but they're still very versatile and still a vital piece of removal for Bant.
Deft Duelist does wreak havoc against RDW, but besides that, it really doesn't do much. I mean Celestial Purge does pretty much the same thing as well as stop unearth on Hellspark, hit black creatures, and not die to fallout.
I ended up testing duelist for a while, don't get me wrong, it was pretty good. It basically could get through most creatures with an exalted boost, but without that extra exalted punch, it was too frail by itself.
In that case, wouldn't that just make Vines a bad Negate? I'm still not entirely sold on it, it just doesn't do enough by itself.
I never said that Charm could counter DoJ, what I said was that if there was a lot of DoJ he should drop Charm instead Negate. But I do agree with you that Vines should be dropped, its basically a more limited Hindering Light, without the card advantage. Does 4x Hierarch 3x BoP really work better, because I haven't really had any problem hitting turn 1 accel, turn 2 3 drop off of 4x Heirarchs 2x Birds. Whatever, if 4-3 works better then I'll try it.
I'd probably say drop a Negate/Bant Charm and a Birds of Paradise. I found that 6 mana dorks is the right number and having too many birds is bad considering it just turns into a summoning sick land, at least Hierarch can go in for 1 point. I'd say drop Negate because Bant Charm is more versatile, but if your meta is going to have a lot of DoJ you could drop the bant charm instead.
I don't know if that's a good idea, I mean don't get me wrong Stag is great against monoblack postboard, I'll be the first to admit that.
I mean outside of monoblack which still has gatekeeper of malakir, and anything wall of denial it's kinda just subpar. Against the mirror its just a 3/3 for 3 with problue which is pretty good , but Jund/Cascade Shenanigans has Lightning bolt and Resounding Thunder. What did you drop for them in the m/b?
Kor Skyfisher ends up creating a lot of tempo disadvantage when he gets killed off immediately. Usually goes:
I play the Kor, bouncing my turn 1 mana dork then the Kor gets shot down leaving me wondering why my board just got up and left.
Or: I play the Kor, bounce a land and it eats PTE, and I find myself asking if I just got time walked.
Of course I play in a removal heavy meta where everyone and their grandmother plays path to exile.
While the summit wouldn't be so bad since you can almost guarantee it will be untapped, drawing the refuge land early would be terrible. It would also make Valakut less reliable, but that's not a big deal. I don't know, it just seems like trying to force a black splash in a deck playing cards that cost RRR and RRRR is bad idea.