Maybe this is slightly premature, not having seen the full setup, but here are my thoughts from my point of view.
This game forced the scum to claim their real roles (or of course lie and just gamble that nobody would do a trade with us the entire game). So we are forced into playing the whole game around these mod-forced claims. That means that there's no leeway in making up a claim to fit the situation - we have to make sure that our actions fit our claims from the start. That's bad enough, but then you make Gigas a roleblocker (scum role) and then give me a dossier blocker role (again, scum role). So now, not only are we limited in using our abilities (because we have to use them in a pro-town manner - in my case that means not using them at all), but I have to go in and start saying how scummy my role is from D1.
Then we have the nice win condition screw-up, which was the final blow to MH (I don't entirely blame Guardman for this, as she was scummy anyway and we were warned about the weird win conditions).
Then we have AI as a neutral cop, which at first seems like a clever role except that cop is an inherently pro-town ability.
We also have that nice situation with Cyan's list of council members which I'm still waiting to hear what the hell that was about. Regardless of the actual reasoning there, that caused confirmation of Cyan being town (only half Guardman's fault here - it wouldn't have been as obvious if Cyan hadn't replaced out, but I don't really blame him for doing so).
Probably the thing that bugs me the most is what led to AI investigating me - how Zionite's flavour meshed with mine. As soon as Zionite claimed, I was screwed. If I didn't say anything, then any trade later on would make me look really bad for keeping quiet, but if I did say something, well now I look bad because my character's a rapist.
Oh, and then we have the wonderful fact that abilities and Limitbreakers can be used together on the same night.
I don't mean to take away from the town's win though, since MH and Gigas were both scummy and I made some poor night choices. I think I played well behaviorally and the circumstances surrounding my death were unfair, but even so I'm not sure I would have endgamed. But I really did not enjoy this game.
And, spiteful? This confirms you aren't town. You should not be spiteful.
Heh. Obviously you haven't played very many games. Sure it's not a good thing to do but that's what happens when I'm getting a bum-deal. Luckily I've just figured out how to prove to you guys that AI is lying (see my last post).
@Keifru - don't have time for a reply with links but if you look through AI's posts you'll see him saying he's not worried about a nightkill - heavily implying he has some sort of immunity. Which makes a ton of sense since neutrals tend to have some type of protection so that they don't randomly lose.
About the kpaca investigation - exactly, that can't be trusted either. If you go through my posts you'll see that I have consistently said that AI should not be believed about anything. I have no idea what you're trying to say with the Zionite thing there.
And as for the tease - look at AI's first post today. He comes in and FoSes me (since he can't vote)
Hahahahaha. Sorry for stopping mid-thought but I just realized how I can prove to you guys that AI is lying. AI has no vote today because he used his alignment switch (or whatever you want to call it) ability last night. If he used his that ability last night then how did he investigate me last night??
Poggydude was the only one to ask for it. Why are you so paranoid?
You also said 'while we wait for him to claim'.
I'm not being paranoid, just spiteful. If I'm going to get lynched, so be it. But it's silly to have me claim, because that's not going to change anything. It's not like I'm being anti-town, because you'll have all my info once I'm dead, since Guardman posts everyone's role. So there's absolutely no upside to me claiming.
Calvin - I don't like how he pretty much ignores the info. If I were to call him on it, he could still claim it, kinda. This would be a "wiggle room" response.
Not really. I mean, I guess there's more 'wiggle room' than if I said I didn't target, but either way there's pretty much no way that I could get away with saying "Oh I didn't realize" after it had been posted by multiple multiple times that we were all just waiting for your info and I had posted since then.
Bastard Moddery implies that you should expect lies. Even go out of your way to play around them. Normal modding means that there can be lies, but that they should be flavorfully correct, hints at it within the game, and easy to play around. Here, this potential "lie" can be easily rectified by trades.
Some examples might be an insane cops with character hints at the player being insane. A stereotypically bastard mod role that can be found in a normal game through balancing. Hidden or secret roles can also be considered lies, but are found occasionally in normals. Here I can expect why I'm left off the list given I almost never attend meetings, according to my flavor.
Again, you can trade with me, if you would like.
I'm town, and not lying. So you'll need a new theory.
And what? How is it flavourfully correct that you are on the council and yet not on Cyan's list? Why would Guardman PM Cyan after the fact with a 'correction'?
If you are town and on the council and Guardman went ahead and PMed that to Cyan, he is a complete fail mod. That is deliberately misleading.
Are you fine with us lynching you if Calvin isn't scum?
Here's the thing. He knows that we can't afford to lynch him after lynching me. That's 2 days of lynches wasted and that would probably put us in Lylo. So this isn't a risk for him. The only way we could potentially punish him for my mislynch would be to vig him. But kpaca doesn't seem like he's willing to do that. Even if kpaca was willing to do shoot him, I don't think it would have any effect. AI has already stated he's not worried about being killed by the mafia, so it sounds like he has some sort of bulletproof ability.
On top of that, if AI really investigated me, why didn't he just come straight out and say it? Why the delay? He was teasing, hoping that he could get a wagon on me without having to even commit to saying he investigated me. When that didn't happen and people asked for a more concrete stance, he was forced to go in all the way.
I'm not entirely sure what his motives are here though. Maybe his investigations let him know that the person he's currently attached to is scum or something like that. I'm not really sure. What's clear though is that he is lying.
I don't like that people are so quick to gobble up his story, when he is a neutral that has his own motives that are not the town's motives and doesn't have to worry about any punishment arising from my mislynch, since we can't afford to waste two lynches in a row and he has some type of immunity from nightkills. I also don't like the dichotomy being presented between me being scum and AI being scum. If I do end being lynched (which I really hope doesn't happen), remember that I confirmed AI as a neutral. Whatever he's doing for his own benefit and being anti-town, he's not actually mafia.
Could everybody post their current scum list for me, please?
I know it's a lot of me to ask, but it's mainly so I don't accuse anybody for thinking X player is scum when they voted Y player earlier on, and vice versa.
Keifru - liked him in the beginning of D1 but hasn't posted much of interest since then. Seems to mainly post from the sidelines.
falkonn - Supposedly has some amazing role that can't be scum. Not much of an opinion on him behaviourly.
Malcolm - is Malcolm. Has a vig shot so I doubt he's scum since it doesn't seem right for scum to have two extra kills (and one of them being repeatable). Probably worth confirming that he has a vig shot with a trade, but I doubt he's lying.
Lost Profit - Been very pro-town. My only complaint is the whole Cyan business. I still can't fathom how it makes any sense for Guardman to PM Cyan, so I'm reserving judgement on this one.
Poggydude - Spaz. Probably town given how unguarded he seems and his interactions with MH.
AsianInvasion - Neutral.
Cyan/faefolk - Pretty much confirmed town given recent events.
Gigas1 - Lurky. Very interesting comment about the RB that he seems to have ignored the reaction to in his most recent post.
If I had to pick two it would probably be Gigas and Keifru.
Is there something in your role that makes AsianInvasion particularly eager to have kpaca vig you?
Well, there's the fact that it makes more sense on scum like I've said a bunch of times, but that's old news. So unless he's just not paying any attention, I'm guessing he's just continuing along his 'make random comments and hope not to attract too much attention' plan.
Regardless, Cyan is overreacting to parts of the game probably designed for some degree of balance. The game is based around the free flow of information, and therefore some measures are useful to prevent it being broken. I see Cyan's list as no more bastardly than a Godfather, or even a Miller - both roles that involve lying, but intentional lying that is possible to play around. The fact that there are only 13 names including the mods makes that list similarly "incriminating" as a Miller might, but still possible to figure out.
There's a huge difference. Godfather and Miller are standard roles. Everyone knows to play around them. Lying to a player on a non-standard role is bastard. Though it just seems like yet another mod screwup, instead of deliberate bastardy. Had someone else had the role they probably would have realized that something was off and went from there.
Regardless, that doesn't change the fact that Guardman PMed Cyan to correct this error, which highlights the fact that you're the missing player (you) is not on the council.
Either Cyan is lying (given how everything went down, this is nigh impossible), you're lying or Guardman's lying.
And there's absolutely no reason for Guardman to specifically PM Cyan and make a 'correction' which is just a lie.
So, the only reasonable explanation here is that you're lying. I think it's important that you come clean here, because I very much doubt that you're mafia, especially given your play (if you are, congrats on an exceptional game). And I'd love to know how 2 neutrals in a 13 man game makes any sense.
Accepted a full trade with AI last night. The fact that he was offering this info means that it would just be exactly what he already posted but I felt it was worth confirming anyway (and yes, it is word for word what he posted). I now also know the parts that he snipped.
Number of charges needed to get town wincon: 4. I can see why he didn't want to post this... means he's never going to actually become a townie.
His side-effect of using Symbiotic Expanse is that he loses his vote for the next day. Not sure why he felt the need to hide that.
His role still doesn't make perfect sense to me but unless Guardman is straight up lying to me, that's all there is to it. And Guardman said this isn't a bastard game, so he's probably not lying.
I cant' kill calvin. I can only target him and take his limit breaker when he dies.
Notice he says his "ability" is good to scum. Not limit breaker.
This should be obvious that if I'm not scum then it makes it very likely calvin is scum.
Don't see how this changes anything. You originally claimed that you take my ability and limit breaker. Not just my limit breaker as you seem to be saying with this post (yet another example of your statements not matching up).
And besides, you're also twisting what I said. I said that my ability is good for scum but I also said that my limit breaker can be useful for me (depending on how the game is set up) but only if I can get it charged, which I have no idea how that happens. What I'm thinking is that I'm essentially vanilla and just serve as a holder to let a scum 'power-up'. I don't see why else my limit-breaker charge condition would be so vague otherwise.
--
Don't see the big case against Poggy. He seems to be from the far too common 'random, spazzy, confusing' mold. I don't think that it's a tell on his alignment. On the other hand, as was pointed out, we have a nice interaction with MH that points toward him being town.
I've breadcrumbed the rape flavor several times. I linked a youtube video of the song Rape Me, and I've also posted lyrics of a web meme regarding rape.
I asked Guardman if he can confirm my target as scum since that target dies if I find the correct player. He said he can only confirm that my target is a rapist. I'm assuming this person is scum since we are in a mini, and I'm town. It would be bastard modding to include a townie role that kills other townies IMO.
I crumbed my action at the beginning of the day. I targeted malcolm last night with no success.
Let me know if you have any questions. Honestly I'm just lost in this game. I'm just following along to see if anyone pings my 'dar, but I haven't had the drive to hunt anyone in particular just yet.
I don't want to hang my hat completely on my target being definite scum because Guardman couldn't tell me for certain. However, betting on the modgame I'm actually quite useful to the town as a one-shot vig on whoever this person is + whatever that limit break may be.
I'm also completely cool with being lynched. It's my bad play and I deserve it. I just haven't gotten the spark from this game yet and I'm kind of discouraged to even try lately.
And now the pieces of the puzzle fall into place.
From my role PM:
One incident of particular note is when [my name] was accused of “improper and unsolicited” relations with a certain girl who remained nameless of her own accord.
It does not say anywhere that I actually raped her, but I'm guessing that I'm Zionite's target.
And this explains my ability. As I've said before, my ability is pretty much useless on town. I figured that this was simply a way of confusing role analysis in a game where all info will eventually be public, but it seemed kind of inelegant to have an ability that would very likely never be activated. But having scum (Zionite) inherit the ability from me is much more elegant.
It might also explain my limit breaker, since I have no idea how it charges and Guardman isn't being very helpful (it says what needs to happen to charge it, but I don't understand what it means).
We might as well wait for everyone else to check in, but Zionite is definitely scum.
The ability, as claimed, bothers me. So you first have to find the person, and THEN they also have to die, all for you to gain whatever their ability is? Which may or may not be actually useful.
I feel like parts of this claim are being left out. Also, I thought that there would be SOME kind of flavor reason for AI to need Zionite to stay alive, but as it stands I'm really not seeing it. It's also a concern, as LP said, that you don't even know the name of the person that raped you.
I think that Zionite is just a corpse eater, and is lying about the rape part. Vote Zionite
Umm. Hi. Is there any reason you completely ignored my response to you?
@Calvin: I don't recall which game you were scum in. I believe there was only one. If you want to give me a list of your games, I'll go find it. I just recall you acting markedly different than your typical town self in that game.
Much like this game.
List of games in my sig. As you can see, I've never been scum, which is why I'm interested in how you're so convinced that I was and acted completely different than my town game.
The only thing that comes close is Highlander where I was a neutral survivor but even there I was playing for the town until it was extremely obvious that they were not going to win. And besides, I don't recall you thinking I was scum in that game.
Also, you really think that you were attacking MH as much as Zionite? I don't think that your posts back this up at all.
It all starts with this post. In here, your probing of Zionite is considerably deeper than your one question to MH. You even ultimately conclude that MH doesn't seem like scum, but Zionite does. Even though, by your own statement, they are guilty of the same thing(s). But maybe this changes later. Let's keep looking.
[/quote]
I attacked Zionite and MH for the inconsistency on RafK. However, Zionite had an additional inconsistency regarding MH that MH did not (could not) have. I say this pretty clearly in my summary in that post.
Your next post takes place after Manders has started to take some heat for her inconsistency regarding her action(s) toward RafK. You are completely willing to give her a pass here. But you continue to rail at Zionite, for what is, at best, the same thing that MH did(and arguably, MH's stance was worse, because she tried to lie about it).
You're completely ignoring the fact that MH and Zionite gave two separate answers. MH answered that she didn't say that you were reaching until you didn't give meta examples. That's a perfectly fine answer (for the question I asked; as was pointed out later, there was a different post by MH that didn't make sense with this).
Zionite on the other hand, started retconning immediately - saying that he only wanted to see your motivations, when in fact his original post said that he would lay down a vote.
Also in this post, you try to bring issue to the fact that I said that if MH really thought I was scum in this game, she would never have let it go, and that I thought she was scum because of this. I was right. This is also an example of you subtlely defending her. Let's keep going.
That's bad. The fact that you ended up being right does not have any effect on the actual logic that you were trying to present. Your argument did not and still does not make sense logically, regardless of the fact that MH was scum.
In this post, you finally get around to questioning MH. All seems fine. But at the end..you just try to tie it back to Zionite. This is extremely scummy. You are effectively commenting on the relevant wagon here, without really taking a stance on it, and then trying to use that wagon to make someone ELSE look bad. But maybe you'll redeem yourself later. Continuing on...
?
I took a pretty clear stance there. In the second last paragraph. And Zionite as I said, was guilty of the same crime as MH. Yet for some reason everyone was ignoring this.
Next you vote MH(in post 383), presumable to force her to claim. This vote seems insincere. You say that you don't know what answers she can give that will satisfy you. And what..this didn't occur to you 2 posts before this? This vote seems extremely opportunistic. At this juncture, MH was at claim-1. She was obviously going to be claiming. It must have occurred to you that you could bring her to claim range, and if people accepted her claim(which there was a decent chance of if she didn't botch the WC part), that would help the scum. And if they didn't, you wouldn't have to get on the wagon after she claimed(which would be a meaningless time to do so).
Really, Cyan?
First off, you know what happened in between my posts... you said:
Honestly though, can we please get on with lynching MH? Being stuck at 'claim -1' is really ridiculous.
I'm extremely cautious with my vote. You should know that. But thanks to your comment, I decided to be a bit more aggressive than usual.
Besides your entire premise is ridiculous. You attack me for not having made up my mind to vote 2 posts before but then claim that I'm scum and realized how awesome it would be to vote MH.
So, if I'm town I'm smart and should have everything completely worked out when I post (and hence my subsequent vote post is scummy) but if I'm scum I'm not clever enough to realize that it would be a good move to vote MH in my first post and only realized in my second post (again making me scum).
That doesn't at all follow.
Also, in this post, you post the bit from the OP about the 'other' town WC. This completely reads like you're trying to give MH an out.
So that's that. I find Calvin's inconsistencies toward MH and Zionite to be incredibly damning, especially knowing that MH flipped scum.
That was actually the nail in her coffin, as it presented a solid explanation for why she would have posted a different wincon (she was scum and copied the wrong wincon from the rules).
My immediate reaction to Zionite's vote there was similar to LP's.
But ultimately, Calvin's scumminess overwhelms that.
Plus, I am a little skeptical that Zionite and MH are both scum, considering that they both barned my vote on RafK the same way. I just can't see 2 scumbuddies doing this.
If MH had done it first and Zionite second, I would agree. But... Zionite was the first one and MH barned him.
I'm going to go ahead and say MandersHex's refusal to trade with poggydude as well as her "...but, ...but ...what if he's the cult?" posts make him unlikely to be scum.
Disagree on the first part (could just be a gambit) but agreed on the interaction.
Somewhere along the line, people keep thinking that AsianInvasion is town, or that he has any business in helping the town. It needs to stop.
EBWODP: A little more insight into my mindset. It's easy for a scum AI to claim that he has a WC that requires Zionite stay alive..then scum can simply not kill Zionite. Or Zionite could be scum. AI being scum isn't a tell on Zionite's alignment, and I don't see any of Zionite's play as particularly scummy.
And what do you think of the points I've raised on Zionite?
It makes perfect sense. It's not like the town's going to be calling for your lynch because you got a neutral killed. Why not lie to get a player only you seem to be arguing is a threat to the scum out of the way? Things are starting to add up... *click click click*
EWP@Lost_Profit: Can you prove Cyan did what he said he did?
That depends on which side they think I'll help out.
Except for the part where it wasn't bolded?
That doesn't explain the part where you don't leave the game if your target dies.
Falkonn has become obvtown, vigging him would be nonsense.
I'm interested in putting some pressure on Calvin. In my experience with him, he doesn't ever post tons, but the only time he lurks like he's doing in this game is when he's scum. Vote Calvin
I don't think I'm posting much less than usual. I'm posting on average every two days which is my standard.
More importantly... which games have I been scum in, Cyan?
@Lost: I looked back to remember what I didn't like about Calvin. If you read Day 1, he spends much of the time subtlely defending MH. Also, he pursues Zionite vigorously, for crimes that MH was at least equally guilty of..while subtlely defending MH at the same time.
When you look at it from the perspective of MH being scum, Calvin looks incredibly scummy.
Post numbers?
I recall attacking MH for the same things that I attacked Zionite for.
I'm sure to you this explains why in Indiana Jones mafia you refused to claim and railed at how stupid everybody was but here you're pushing quite hard for a policy lynch on Falkonn. But please elaborate so my pitiful little mind can understand the greatness behind your statement.
the trouble is that ai has every reason to not bust scum - lie to clear scum, and the scum avoid killing zionite to keep the lie going. if ai busts a scum, the scum might kill zionite in revenge. sure they could kill ai then zionite but why bother? they could kill two townies who are actually risks to them.
this also means ai doesn't even need an investigation ability, he could just call scummy people clear and hope for the best. the worst that can happen for him is that he gets caught out and we lynch him (but not zionite).
yes the scum were going to kill the suspicious neutral herf derf
and you were so worried about this you claimed the ability frikking quickly anyway. i think you just came up with a better idea for how you were going to pretend to be useful.
it is also a great coincidence that you claim to have investigated kpaca and he changed his mind at the start of today on you being killed (and he's a vig himself he says, so how lucky is that, the claimed vig says he changed his mind about killing you and announces it to the world)
i just don't trust your investigations at all ai, and i'm gonna ignore them. you have way too many good reasons to be lying and none at all to be truthful except by accident. kpaca has the scummiest behaviour here, i don't think his claim means much, and i don't think your investigation means anything. sticking with what i got.
falkonn: is your claim that much more broken on scum than manders being allowed to kill any townie for whom she could get the date of birth? think carefully. if the answer to this question is not yes, you probably need to claim in full today and be done with it.
I really like this post. Especially the point about kpaca changing his mind on AI before AI had even claimed his result.
Honestly, I kind of just want to lynch AI. I feel like his answer to my question doesn't really bear scrutiny(as evidenced by zuzu petals).
I think that there is enough of a possibility that he is just lying scum.
Unvote, Vote AI
The problem I have is that it seems far too risky in a mini. In a normal there's a lot more room for daring scum gambits but in a mini, you screw up and you've crippled your team.
Maybe this is slightly premature, not having seen the full setup, but here are my thoughts from my point of view.
This game forced the scum to claim their real roles (or of course lie and just gamble that nobody would do a trade with us the entire game). So we are forced into playing the whole game around these mod-forced claims. That means that there's no leeway in making up a claim to fit the situation - we have to make sure that our actions fit our claims from the start. That's bad enough, but then you make Gigas a roleblocker (scum role) and then give me a dossier blocker role (again, scum role). So now, not only are we limited in using our abilities (because we have to use them in a pro-town manner - in my case that means not using them at all), but I have to go in and start saying how scummy my role is from D1.
Then we have the nice win condition screw-up, which was the final blow to MH (I don't entirely blame Guardman for this, as she was scummy anyway and we were warned about the weird win conditions).
Then we have AI as a neutral cop, which at first seems like a clever role except that cop is an inherently pro-town ability.
We also have that nice situation with Cyan's list of council members which I'm still waiting to hear what the hell that was about. Regardless of the actual reasoning there, that caused confirmation of Cyan being town (only half Guardman's fault here - it wouldn't have been as obvious if Cyan hadn't replaced out, but I don't really blame him for doing so).
Probably the thing that bugs me the most is what led to AI investigating me - how Zionite's flavour meshed with mine. As soon as Zionite claimed, I was screwed. If I didn't say anything, then any trade later on would make me look really bad for keeping quiet, but if I did say something, well now I look bad because my character's a rapist.
Oh, and then we have the wonderful fact that abilities and Limitbreakers can be used together on the same night.
I don't mean to take away from the town's win though, since MH and Gigas were both scummy and I made some poor night choices. I think I played well behaviorally and the circumstances surrounding my death were unfair, but even so I'm not sure I would have endgamed. But I really did not enjoy this game.
Congratz to the town.
Heh. Obviously you haven't played very many games. Sure it's not a good thing to do but that's what happens when I'm getting a bum-deal. Luckily I've just figured out how to prove to you guys that AI is lying (see my last post).
About the kpaca investigation - exactly, that can't be trusted either. If you go through my posts you'll see that I have consistently said that AI should not be believed about anything. I have no idea what you're trying to say with the Zionite thing there.
And as for the tease - look at AI's first post today. He comes in and FoSes me (since he can't vote)
Hahahahaha. Sorry for stopping mid-thought but I just realized how I can prove to you guys that AI is lying. AI has no vote today because he used his alignment switch (or whatever you want to call it) ability last night. If he used his that ability last night then how did he investigate me last night??
More later, got to run.
You also said 'while we wait for him to claim'.
I'm not being paranoid, just spiteful. If I'm going to get lynched, so be it. But it's silly to have me claim, because that's not going to change anything. It's not like I'm being anti-town, because you'll have all my info once I'm dead, since Guardman posts everyone's role. So there's absolutely no upside to me claiming.
What? Is that really going to change your minds?
If you really want my claim so badly, just ask AI.
Not really. I mean, I guess there's more 'wiggle room' than if I said I didn't target, but either way there's pretty much no way that I could get away with saying "Oh I didn't realize" after it had been posted by multiple multiple times that we were all just waiting for your info and I had posted since then.
And what? How is it flavourfully correct that you are on the council and yet not on Cyan's list? Why would Guardman PM Cyan after the fact with a 'correction'?
If you are town and on the council and Guardman went ahead and PMed that to Cyan, he is a complete fail mod. That is deliberately misleading.
I think a trade would be a good idea.
No.
Here's the thing. He knows that we can't afford to lynch him after lynching me. That's 2 days of lynches wasted and that would probably put us in Lylo. So this isn't a risk for him. The only way we could potentially punish him for my mislynch would be to vig him. But kpaca doesn't seem like he's willing to do that. Even if kpaca was willing to do shoot him, I don't think it would have any effect. AI has already stated he's not worried about being killed by the mafia, so it sounds like he has some sort of bulletproof ability.
On top of that, if AI really investigated me, why didn't he just come straight out and say it? Why the delay? He was teasing, hoping that he could get a wagon on me without having to even commit to saying he investigated me. When that didn't happen and people asked for a more concrete stance, he was forced to go in all the way.
I'm not entirely sure what his motives are here though. Maybe his investigations let him know that the person he's currently attached to is scum or something like that. I'm not really sure. What's clear though is that he is lying.
I don't like that people are so quick to gobble up his story, when he is a neutral that has his own motives that are not the town's motives and doesn't have to worry about any punishment arising from my mislynch, since we can't afford to waste two lynches in a row and he has some type of immunity from nightkills. I also don't like the dichotomy being presented between me being scum and AI being scum. If I do end being lynched (which I really hope doesn't happen), remember that I confirmed AI as a neutral. Whatever he's doing for his own benefit and being anti-town, he's not actually mafia.
Keifru - liked him in the beginning of D1 but hasn't posted much of interest since then. Seems to mainly post from the sidelines.
falkonn - Supposedly has some amazing role that can't be scum. Not much of an opinion on him behaviourly.
Malcolm - is Malcolm. Has a vig shot so I doubt he's scum since it doesn't seem right for scum to have two extra kills (and one of them being repeatable). Probably worth confirming that he has a vig shot with a trade, but I doubt he's lying.
Lost Profit - Been very pro-town. My only complaint is the whole Cyan business. I still can't fathom how it makes any sense for Guardman to PM Cyan, so I'm reserving judgement on this one.
Poggydude - Spaz. Probably town given how unguarded he seems and his interactions with MH.
AsianInvasion - Neutral.
Cyan/faefolk - Pretty much confirmed town given recent events.
Gigas1 - Lurky. Very interesting comment about the RB that he seems to have ignored the reaction to in his most recent post.
If I had to pick two it would probably be Gigas and Keifru.
Well, there's the fact that it makes more sense on scum like I've said a bunch of times, but that's old news. So unless he's just not paying any attention, I'm guessing he's just continuing along his 'make random comments and hope not to attract too much attention' plan.
There's a huge difference. Godfather and Miller are standard roles. Everyone knows to play around them. Lying to a player on a non-standard role is bastard. Though it just seems like yet another mod screwup, instead of deliberate bastardy. Had someone else had the role they probably would have realized that something was off and went from there.
Regardless, that doesn't change the fact that Guardman PMed Cyan to correct this error, which highlights the fact that you're the missing player (you) is not on the council.
Either Cyan is lying (given how everything went down, this is nigh impossible), you're lying or Guardman's lying.
And there's absolutely no reason for Guardman to specifically PM Cyan and make a 'correction' which is just a lie.
So, the only reasonable explanation here is that you're lying. I think it's important that you come clean here, because I very much doubt that you're mafia, especially given your play (if you are, congrats on an exceptional game). And I'd love to know how 2 neutrals in a 13 man game makes any sense.
Still waiting for gigas to post.
Why would you say this? There is no upside.
That's not true and that's a bad vote.
Eh?
--
Accepted a full trade with AI last night. The fact that he was offering this info means that it would just be exactly what he already posted but I felt it was worth confirming anyway (and yes, it is word for word what he posted). I now also know the parts that he snipped.
Number of charges needed to get town wincon: 4. I can see why he didn't want to post this... means he's never going to actually become a townie.
His side-effect of using Symbiotic Expanse is that he loses his vote for the next day. Not sure why he felt the need to hide that.
His role still doesn't make perfect sense to me but unless Guardman is straight up lying to me, that's all there is to it. And Guardman said this isn't a bastard game, so he's probably not lying.
Don't see how this changes anything. You originally claimed that you take my ability and limit breaker. Not just my limit breaker as you seem to be saying with this post (yet another example of your statements not matching up).
And besides, you're also twisting what I said. I said that my ability is good for scum but I also said that my limit breaker can be useful for me (depending on how the game is set up) but only if I can get it charged, which I have no idea how that happens. What I'm thinking is that I'm essentially vanilla and just serve as a holder to let a scum 'power-up'. I don't see why else my limit-breaker charge condition would be so vague otherwise.
--
Don't see the big case against Poggy. He seems to be from the far too common 'random, spazzy, confusing' mold. I don't think that it's a tell on his alignment. On the other hand, as was pointed out, we have a nice interaction with MH that points toward him being town.
Are we waiting on anything?
And now the pieces of the puzzle fall into place.
From my role PM:
It does not say anywhere that I actually raped her, but I'm guessing that I'm Zionite's target.
And this explains my ability. As I've said before, my ability is pretty much useless on town. I figured that this was simply a way of confusing role analysis in a game where all info will eventually be public, but it seemed kind of inelegant to have an ability that would very likely never be activated. But having scum (Zionite) inherit the ability from me is much more elegant.
It might also explain my limit breaker, since I have no idea how it charges and Guardman isn't being very helpful (it says what needs to happen to charge it, but I don't understand what it means).
We might as well wait for everyone else to check in, but Zionite is definitely scum.
Umm. Hi. Is there any reason you completely ignored my response to you?
List of games in my sig. As you can see, I've never been scum, which is why I'm interested in how you're so convinced that I was and acted completely different than my town game.
The only thing that comes close is Highlander where I was a neutral survivor but even there I was playing for the town until it was extremely obvious that they were not going to win. And besides, I don't recall you thinking I was scum in that game.
[/quote]
I attacked Zionite and MH for the inconsistency on RafK. However, Zionite had an additional inconsistency regarding MH that MH did not (could not) have. I say this pretty clearly in my summary in that post.
You're completely ignoring the fact that MH and Zionite gave two separate answers. MH answered that she didn't say that you were reaching until you didn't give meta examples. That's a perfectly fine answer (for the question I asked; as was pointed out later, there was a different post by MH that didn't make sense with this).
Zionite on the other hand, started retconning immediately - saying that he only wanted to see your motivations, when in fact his original post said that he would lay down a vote.
That's bad. The fact that you ended up being right does not have any effect on the actual logic that you were trying to present. Your argument did not and still does not make sense logically, regardless of the fact that MH was scum.
?
I took a pretty clear stance there. In the second last paragraph. And Zionite as I said, was guilty of the same crime as MH. Yet for some reason everyone was ignoring this.
Really, Cyan?
First off, you know what happened in between my posts... you said:
I'm extremely cautious with my vote. You should know that. But thanks to your comment, I decided to be a bit more aggressive than usual.
Besides your entire premise is ridiculous. You attack me for not having made up my mind to vote 2 posts before but then claim that I'm scum and realized how awesome it would be to vote MH.
So, if I'm town I'm smart and should have everything completely worked out when I post (and hence my subsequent vote post is scummy) but if I'm scum I'm not clever enough to realize that it would be a good move to vote MH in my first post and only realized in my second post (again making me scum).
That doesn't at all follow.
That was actually the nail in her coffin, as it presented a solid explanation for why she would have posted a different wincon (she was scum and copied the wrong wincon from the rules).
Excellent vote.
For pressure, no less.
I guess this means you're going to completely refuse to address my case against you?
Unvote Vote Zionite
If MH had done it first and Zionite second, I would agree. But... Zionite was the first one and MH barned him.
It's the weekend (and I suspect people are waiting for my response to your case).
Disagree on the first part (could just be a gambit) but agreed on the interaction.
Yup.
And what do you think of the points I've raised on Zionite?
That doesn't explain the part where you don't leave the game if your target dies.
I don't think I'm posting much less than usual. I'm posting on average every two days which is my standard.
More importantly... which games have I been scum in, Cyan?
Post numbers?
I recall attacking MH for the same things that I attacked Zionite for.
I'm sure to you this explains why in Indiana Jones mafia you refused to claim and railed at how stupid everybody was but here you're pushing quite hard for a policy lynch on Falkonn. But please elaborate so my pitiful little mind can understand the greatness behind your statement.
That doesn't really mean anything. You could have used it N1 for all we know or you have a limit breaker that hadn't been charged yet, etc.
I really like this post. Especially the point about kpaca changing his mind on AI before AI had even claimed his result.
The problem I have is that it seems far too risky in a mini. In a normal there's a lot more room for daring scum gambits but in a mini, you screw up and you've crippled your team.
But I agree that nothing about AI is adding up.