Lately, i've been buying the full 4x set for newly released sets. Expensive, yes? But saves me a lot of time and hassle opening packs, trading, worrying about prices, and so on.
Other than that, i use a mix of online shops and eBay to get any older cards i need.
I really don't see how comparing Standard to Vintage is at all productive. It's like comparing Legacy to Limited. Sure both use Magic cards, but that is about all they have in common.
The real question is, if you are interested in eternal formats, what is the appeal of Legacy over Vintage? Or, why is there such a heavy skew towards Legacy as opposed to Vintage?
If we compare the price difference in playing Legacy to Vintage, if we factor in the proxy element (because playing in all Sanctioned Vintage is difficult at best for most of the United States), i believe that there cannot be a large difference, financially. And it isn't as if the 'staples' are mutually exclusive.
You might want to have a look at the following list for Dark Times by Max Brown, which is designed for a proxy environment. Despite this, the deck could pretty easily be run without need for proxies (Imperial Seal, Mox Jet, and Black Lotus would, for example be the only cards over ~20-30 dollars).
Both are broken mechanics; who enjoys what depends a lot more on what parts of the game you enjoy playing. As one of those people who snarkily comments about how standard is about 'turning creatures sideways', I like vintage decks that do a relatively minimal amount of it. Then again, I like TPS style storm decks (eg with countermagic and tinker etc) and not the one-trick pony style ANT decks. Everyone has a preference, and none of them are wrong.
I have a preference for neither. I've played both, but as an 'old' player, i've always enjoyed and preferred the play style of blue permission. In a vacuum, i'd always play it. That's why i like Vintage, it's where blue gets to wheel out all it's truly broken power.
I don't much like playing Dredge, because i hate how much of a mess it makes my graveyard. I don't like playing Storm because i despise doing math in games. I never mind playing against either though. If anything, i feel that 'Stax' decks are the ones that make Vintage less fun than it could be. But that's just me, i hate Sphere effects.
That being said, i find people's reasoning for why they dislike Vintage funny most of the time. Lots of them smack of 'after the fact' reasoning. They've decided they dislike the format and then go back and justify with something rather unfounded, like made up statistics or imaginary lines of play featuring a given God Hand, or some imaginary cost figure. My preferred Legacy deck costs more than my 10 proxy Vintage deck and by a wide margin no less (White Stax, yes, i see the irony, lol).
You can beat a dredge deck with 'lotus, dark ritual, memoricide 'bazaar of baghdad'. If they don't have one played yet, they literally can't win. Most will only run a card like Dryad Arbor for mana, to fuel a few nature's claims on Leylines of the Void, and cannot dredge w/o overdrawing and discarding without the bazaar.
I don't even know where to start with this post, but you most certainly will not be winning any games vs. Dredge (or anything else) via "lotus, ritual, Memoricide" naming Bazaar. Who plays Memoricide in Vintage anyway? No one played Cranial Extraction, why would you play essentially the same card now?
Even if that imaginary line of play existed, you still did not win a game at all. Leyline Of The Void is not an auto win vs. Dredge. If it is, your Dredge pilot is very sub par.
Most will only run a card like Dryad Arbor for mana, to fuel a few nature's claims on Leylines of the Void, and cannot dredge w/o overdrawing and discarding without the bazaar.
If your Dredge plan is to cross your fingers and hope they don't get hate out, then you are indeed never going to win a match ever with the deck.
Undiscovered Paradise taps for green for Nature's Claim, white for Serenity, or black for Darkblast. Those three things can deal with most of the hate you'll see. Leyline of Sanctity and Cabal Therapy can deal with the rest.
Is it an uphill battle in games two and three? Sure, but the same could be said for any match where your opponent has hate in the SB. I've seen games where Dredge has been able to leverage the card advantage gained from opponents too heavily mulling to Leyline, to win, despite hate.
No offense meant, but how much Vintage have you actually played? Has it been against quality Dredge players?
I don't think anyone would deny that dredge is probably the worst mechanic ever created (including Storm, which I kind of enjoy), and is basically an aberration unto itself.
I agree that it is one of the 'worst' in the sense that it changes the game. It becomes a war over the opponents graveyard rather than the battlefield.
But Storm is far and away worse. It makes the game almost a farce. Storm makes the game about playing lots of spells, the effect of which hardly matter (except to allowing you to play more spells). At least Dredge still puts creatures out, still attacks your life total, fundamentals of the game. Storm just sees if you played enough spells to win the game.
Mind you, i play Vintage, every weekend in fact. I love Vintage, more so than Standard. That being said, i would play Legacy if it was run in a place convenient for me to get to weekly. Hell, i'd play Extended if it was run too. I enjoy every format for what it is.
Vintage is the magic equivalent of Texas Hold 'Em. Sometimes you sit down, cut cards and draw the nuts. Sometimes you sit down, cut cards, and get nut drawn. And then there are a lot of times in between where there are very interesting games states that require tight plays. Would you tell a poker player to not play Hold 'Em, because there is "too much luck"?
If I have a Darksteel Juggernaut in play with 3 other irrelevant artifacts and play a Quicksilver Gargantuan copying the Juggernaut, what is the resulting power/toughness of the copy? A 7/7 or a 5/5?
Run all the blue hate cards you can find. If he has made the game unfun, assure that you will make his game unfun. That's how it works in our gaming group.
First off, yes, there are too many lands. While the curve is high, i think i miscalculated for this and ran too many, i wanted to be sure to not miss land drops vs. the mana leaks i was sure to see, but 25 is an awful lot.
I beat an terrible mono-white Allies deck, a real close match vs. a UW conscription, a UW Sun Titan Control, and a Titan Ramp.
The mono-white allies deck was (admittedly by the player himself) a terrible mess. He played a Blademaster and some other guys but never had enough answers to Lord/Warcallers. Sun Titan lands and it's all over. Second game goes much of the same, no sun titan, but he draws less removal and i get a Warcaller with 3 counters on it.
Vs. UW conscription i lose game 1 to a 16/16 Baneslayer. Games two and three i am hazy on, but in game 3 he draws only one Angel, and i am holding two paths.
UW Sun Titan, i get a good start, drop 3 elves by turn 2, beat with them, play around mana leak, and win. Second game goes much the same, the game stalls though when he drops his own Titan, but i manage to bait enough counters to finally get a Monument to stick, and he loses.
Titan Ramp. Seems he kept really questionable hands and early beats plus a big Warcaller game 1 and a Monument game two get there.
Sorry for the sort of lousy report. My memory for small details is really bad.
All in all, i liked the deck and i loved the white splash. I'd run less land though, but not too much. Maybe 23 would be best.
Other than that, i use a mix of online shops and eBay to get any older cards i need.
The real question is, if you are interested in eternal formats, what is the appeal of Legacy over Vintage? Or, why is there such a heavy skew towards Legacy as opposed to Vintage?
If we compare the price difference in playing Legacy to Vintage, if we factor in the proxy element (because playing in all Sanctioned Vintage is difficult at best for most of the United States), i believe that there cannot be a large difference, financially. And it isn't as if the 'staples' are mutually exclusive.
Yeah, no, because you have no access to Blue.
But if you are going to put in Skull Clamp, Fecundity is also a must include. It might even be without the Clamp as well.
4 Dark Confidant
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Duress
4 Thoughtseize
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
1 Crucible of Worlds
3 Diabolic Edict
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Necropotence
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
2 Dark Depths
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
11 Swamp
2 Bitterblossom
2 Emissary of Despair
1 Trinisphere
1 Darkblast
1 Pithing Needle
2 Yixlid Jailer
1 Phyrexian Tower
3 Null Rod
1 Engineered Plague
1 Sadistic Sacrament
I have a preference for neither. I've played both, but as an 'old' player, i've always enjoyed and preferred the play style of blue permission. In a vacuum, i'd always play it. That's why i like Vintage, it's where blue gets to wheel out all it's truly broken power.
I don't much like playing Dredge, because i hate how much of a mess it makes my graveyard. I don't like playing Storm because i despise doing math in games. I never mind playing against either though. If anything, i feel that 'Stax' decks are the ones that make Vintage less fun than it could be. But that's just me, i hate Sphere effects.
That being said, i find people's reasoning for why they dislike Vintage funny most of the time. Lots of them smack of 'after the fact' reasoning. They've decided they dislike the format and then go back and justify with something rather unfounded, like made up statistics or imaginary lines of play featuring a given God Hand, or some imaginary cost figure. My preferred Legacy deck costs more than my 10 proxy Vintage deck and by a wide margin no less (White Stax, yes, i see the irony, lol).
I don't even know where to start with this post, but you most certainly will not be winning any games vs. Dredge (or anything else) via "lotus, ritual, Memoricide" naming Bazaar. Who plays Memoricide in Vintage anyway? No one played Cranial Extraction, why would you play essentially the same card now?
Even if that imaginary line of play existed, you still did not win a game at all. Leyline Of The Void is not an auto win vs. Dredge. If it is, your Dredge pilot is very sub par.
If your Dredge plan is to cross your fingers and hope they don't get hate out, then you are indeed never going to win a match ever with the deck.
Undiscovered Paradise taps for green for Nature's Claim, white for Serenity, or black for Darkblast. Those three things can deal with most of the hate you'll see. Leyline of Sanctity and Cabal Therapy can deal with the rest.
Is it an uphill battle in games two and three? Sure, but the same could be said for any match where your opponent has hate in the SB. I've seen games where Dredge has been able to leverage the card advantage gained from opponents too heavily mulling to Leyline, to win, despite hate.
No offense meant, but how much Vintage have you actually played? Has it been against quality Dredge players?
I agree that it is one of the 'worst' in the sense that it changes the game. It becomes a war over the opponents graveyard rather than the battlefield.
But Storm is far and away worse. It makes the game almost a farce. Storm makes the game about playing lots of spells, the effect of which hardly matter (except to allowing you to play more spells). At least Dredge still puts creatures out, still attacks your life total, fundamentals of the game. Storm just sees if you played enough spells to win the game.
Mind you, i play Vintage, every weekend in fact. I love Vintage, more so than Standard. That being said, i would play Legacy if it was run in a place convenient for me to get to weekly. Hell, i'd play Extended if it was run too. I enjoy every format for what it is.
Vintage is the magic equivalent of Texas Hold 'Em. Sometimes you sit down, cut cards and draw the nuts. Sometimes you sit down, cut cards, and get nut drawn. And then there are a lot of times in between where there are very interesting games states that require tight plays. Would you tell a poker player to not play Hold 'Em, because there is "too much luck"?
Thanks!
Run all the blue hate cards you can find. If he has made the game unfun, assure that you will make his game unfun. That's how it works in our gaming group.
I 4-0'd last FNM (i didn't get to go to games day because of work).
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Arbor Elf
2 Fauna Shaman
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Nissa's Chosen
4 Llanowar Elves
2 Joraga Warcaller
2 Sun Titan
2 Ranger Of Eos
2 Nissa Revane
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
Spells
1 Overrrun
3 Eldrazi Monument
Lands
13 Forest
3 Plains
4 Sunpetal Grove
2 Stirring Wildwood
3 Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
3 Mold Shamblers
2 Naturalize
2 Windstorm
4 Path To Exile
4 Dauntless Escort
First off, yes, there are too many lands. While the curve is high, i think i miscalculated for this and ran too many, i wanted to be sure to not miss land drops vs. the mana leaks i was sure to see, but 25 is an awful lot.
I beat an terrible mono-white Allies deck, a real close match vs. a UW conscription, a UW Sun Titan Control, and a Titan Ramp.
The mono-white allies deck was (admittedly by the player himself) a terrible mess. He played a Blademaster and some other guys but never had enough answers to Lord/Warcallers. Sun Titan lands and it's all over. Second game goes much of the same, no sun titan, but he draws less removal and i get a Warcaller with 3 counters on it.
Vs. UW conscription i lose game 1 to a 16/16 Baneslayer. Games two and three i am hazy on, but in game 3 he draws only one Angel, and i am holding two paths.
UW Sun Titan, i get a good start, drop 3 elves by turn 2, beat with them, play around mana leak, and win. Second game goes much the same, the game stalls though when he drops his own Titan, but i manage to bait enough counters to finally get a Monument to stick, and he loses.
Titan Ramp. Seems he kept really questionable hands and early beats plus a big Warcaller game 1 and a Monument game two get there.
Sorry for the sort of lousy report. My memory for small details is really bad.
All in all, i liked the deck and i loved the white splash. I'd run less land though, but not too much. Maybe 23 would be best.