Why in the world would you have $1300+ worth of cards in such a godawful deck as this? It's a complete one trick ony that is so simple to disrupt it's not even silly. How do you defen a turn 1 Duress/IoK/Cabal Therapy/Thoughtsieze? There goes your combo piece. You have garbage draw draw to dig throughyour deck to find the pieces you need. Your deck falls to Goblins, elves, discard, control, etc. It could possibly beat burn.
And when is a thousand dollar plus deck "casual"?
You've allready been told that this way of posting isn't accepted and got infracted for it. -> Flame infraction.
blut
You compare it to Twilight. This is funny, because one of the biggest problems with Twilight is that it doesn't follow cliches. Vampires sparkling in the sunlight isn't a vampire cliche, it's something invented in Twilight and it is terrible. Vampires being destroyed by sunlight and thus living completely nocturnal lives is a vampire cliche, and it is present in the best vampire works, and is one of the primary things that make vampires an interesting and recurring horror creature. Cliches are not bad.
Misunderstood, thin, frail young white chick falls for dark, brooding, miunderstood supernatural being. Cliched beyond belief
Cliches are not bad.
In a game where the main attraction is ingenuity, creating new worlds, and creating a new, flavorful atmosphere, yes, ther are bad. They are terrible.
I find them far more interesting than someone like Urza
You can't be serious. A character whos story is alluded to over countless years, the subject of multiple novels, a personality defined by the game, vs a cliched pile of garbage dumped in our faces? The level of creativity involved in th PW design is right around 3rd grade level. There's nothing new, nothing creative, just a bunch of generic fantasy archetypes crammed together, and end up churning out something less than the sum of it's parts. They are just godawful in every single way.
duress or inquisition of kozilek are your friends. They can get rid of counters if you're going against blue and exile effects if your going against white.
This. In the grand rock/paper/scissors matchup of MTG, discard beats control. For 1 black mana, you either make them counter that, and they lose a counter, or you pluck a counter out of thierhand, and they lose a counter.
That's the problem right here. Since you're not playing your threats for fear that they might be countered, you're playing right into the blue player's hands. The best way to beat countermagic is to force them to use it and overload them with too many threats to handle. Not playing your spells isn't going to make your opponent's countermagic just disappear for some random reason.
As well as this. The way aggro wins is having more threats than they have answers. Keep pumping them out.
If you take out staggershock and burst lightning, the only card in the entire deck that can win the game is lightning bolt, PA or no.
All you need. You have 4 bolts, and 4 Call to Minds to get bolts out of your graveyard.
Once again, this deck isn't about grinding or burning out a win. It's about stalling until you win in one turn. Bounce is WAY better in that second scenario. If you are creature heavy, use unsummon, if you are not creature heavy, you use Regress (each on top of the 4 Into the Roil)
Instead of admitting that they are not as good and then spending time to improve (learn basic strategy) they spend time attacking certian cards as broken (wether or not they really are) or as "unfair" or "ruining the game".
Not entirely true. While I feel a couple PW's are poorly costed (JTMS should be 4UU), my biggest complaint about PW's is thier impact on flavor. We get mind numbing cliches crammed down our throat as the "face of the game". We get the PW affliated cards which absolutely guts those cards of any sense of intrigue or wonder.
Planeswalkers take magic from Shakespeare, to Twilight. They remove the mystery, and replace it with in your face cliched marketing. "Hey, red is the color of fire, so we're going to make the ultimate fire chick card, and just to show you that she's REALLY red, we'll give her flaming hair (cause no ones ever done that before). See? Flaming hair? that's RED, man! And we'll make a fire creature named after her, and a fire burn spell named after her!! She's the red mage and she uses fire!! Get it!! God, we're so clever!!"
It's such poo, unimaginative design that it borders on the insulting. Planeswalkers dumb down the game FAR more than any rules change could ever hope for. They make the game less rich, less interesting, less mysterious, less intriguing, which all ultimately make the game less playable. There were a complete mistake, up there with the putting the sword and shield on the Portal cards, of the mechaanical look of the new card frames. The are the antithesis of everything that drew me to MTG in he first place.
You're coming into the game with a 2 week history, and expect to win PTQ's?
MTG is not a winnable game. I know it looks like it is, and it appeals to the nerd fascinaiton with trying to use thier cleverness to see the secret tech no one else and then built the most awesome unbeatable deck ever. You won't.
I go 2-2 every time I play this thing at FnM, so I'm not saying this is the best build. I Have been playing this for a while, though, so here are my thoughts. Maybe they will be useful in improving better versions of this deck.
Here's some stuff that I do differently and that works for me:
I run Chandra Ablaze as an alt-win condition for when PA doesn't get lit in time but the board is working for me. When PA works out, she's like a red draw spell and a must-answer threat rolled into one. Additionally, she makes 'Roil a really solid piece of removal. I've won a lot of games by emptying my hand, drawing three more cards while making my opponent ditch the threats I just bounced in favor of a pile of not-what-they-wanted, and then mopping up next turn. She is also a good way to get a rebound spell straight to the 'yard in the event you are holding two late game.
Another thing that works well for me is Staggershock and Surreal Memoir. These guys both can set off PA very quickly once one is in the discard pile. What's more, they are both crazy-nuts with PA online. Redrawing everything worth having from my graveyard is very worth four mana. Maybe it's just my lousy playing/building, but I find games tend to run long enough that I can cast this and any low-cost burn I pull back from the grave (on my opponent's turn to control incoming damage or to the face EOT to deal damage and refill the 'yard for the rebound).
On that note, I almost never play spells on my turn. Most of the best cards in this deck are instants. I think this is something to strive for in selecting burn for this kind of deck. This deck is a kind of permission deck.
When this wins:
I win most games that I can control long enough to play a couple of spells a turn. Getting a hand with sufficient card digging (blue mana and some combination of ponder(s) and/or see beyond(s) significantly improves the odds of everything working out. I am considering fitting four preordain into the board to be sided in for pyroclasm when I'm not against swarmy decks.
When it loses:
When your card filtering runs out and you don't have a lit ascension, you're toast. This deck relies on PA to generate card advantage and it relies on filtering to get to PA. The burn is for stalling until you get enough filtering to get your kit together; it can't normally suppress creatures and kill your opponent simultaneously without the artificial card advantage of an active PA.
Into the Roil is fantastic. Card digging is critical to winning. Chandra Ablaze fits well into most late-game scenarios.
I can see why you are losing. Surreal Memoir is way to expensive for the deck. Staggershick is too expensive for the deck. burst lightning isn't needed in the deck. you're not running preordain which is an auto 4 of in the deck.
Was the store owner runnig an actual FNM (with FNM cards, and DCI reporting as FNM) as Legacy, or just running a legacy tournament on a Friday night?
As for the banned card, it sucks, but as a player, you should be familiar with the banned cards in the format you are playing in. Reporting it to WoTC isn't going to do anything, and getting a store unsanciotned is one less store keeping the game going.
Casual has no place in tournament play.
Sure it does, casual rouge decks can dominate tournaments if they are focused on a particular archetype. I've won legacy tourney before with my BS casual mill deck, because who in the world plays mill competitvely in Legacy, and no had answers for it. One of the greatest weaknesses of competitve tournamanet players is that they are completely focused on whatever the internet tells them the tier 1 decks are, and they have no ability to adapt to decks other than those.
Tried my first build last night, and it was pretty rough. There are a ton of answers to the decks key pieces. Trinisphere wrecks you, a Crucible set to 1 can wreck you. Counterspells surprisingly don't really hurt you that much. I might try a RB build with hand disruption, but then you need to fit a new wincon in, since just 4 bolts won't cut it. Blightning would be an auto 4 off, and would be a SICK car to get off an active ascension (take 6 and discard 4 cards for 4 mana). You can REALLY ramp up the control if you stay RU, but it's tricky. Dispel is needed as a counter to counters. I was almost thinking of trying a build with 4 Savor the Moments and using Chandra as a finisher, you can be taking multiple turns pretty fast, and just burn them out with Chandra. I'd say out of the gate it's pretty easy to get this to a tier 2 build, but it needs a REALLY tight SB to ever hope to crack T1. But, it could becomea T1 in your local meta.
Going ultra heavy on Counterspell isn't that bad a plan, since it keeps you alive, and gets the ascension on quick. In the 6 games I played last night, most times I got the ascensoin online due to counterspell or Force of Will.
time Warp needs to go. It's too slow, and too fragile. I suspect a better deck would come of cutting that and call to Mind and slapping in more high quality burn. If only I have Chain Lightning's
Pyroclasm and/or Volcanic Fallout are all but absolute must haves in the SB. I could easily seen an argument for running them MD if your have an aggro heavy meta.
Also, Accumulated Knowledge works REALLY well in the deck, it's an instant and with an active Ascension (which isn't TO hard to get) you can draw a ton for cheap.
I have been playing with 4 call to mind and its good as 2 call to mind will eventually set a loop to get ascension active
I like 4 call to mind. I disagree it's a bad card, even if you can't go infinite, a doubled call to mind can pull two of the exact answer you need out of your graveyard. It's a little pricey at 3 mana, but it's basicall a Bounce/Counter/Draw/Burn/Timewarp fetcher all wrapped up into one.
No you won't. You will never reliably make more than you spend on MTG cards. I will never understand why people cling so much to the fallacy that they are somhow going to come out ahead $$ wise. You aren't. You might get lucky, but over the course of a box, you will lose. It's like the casino, anyone can win a hand of blackjack and make $$, but keep playing, and you will lose.
I only advocate See Beyond because, again, I like the polymorph plan after SB and drawing Emrakul/Progenitus is not good. See Beyond in the only out you have to putting them back into your deck, other than getting Blightning'd/Mind Rotted with Emrakul.
I agree, if you are going to get dual use out of the See Beyond from a Polymorph SB, then that would be a compelling reason to play it. But personally I don't like the Polymorph SB idea, if you want to build a polymorph deck, you can build a better one that cramming some cards into an ascension deck to make it a half assed polymorph deck.
And when is a thousand dollar plus deck "casual"?
You've allready been told that this way of posting isn't accepted and got infracted for it. -> Flame infraction.
blut
Misunderstood, thin, frail young white chick falls for dark, brooding, miunderstood supernatural being. Cliched beyond belief
In a game where the main attraction is ingenuity, creating new worlds, and creating a new, flavorful atmosphere, yes, ther are bad. They are terrible.
You can't be serious. A character whos story is alluded to over countless years, the subject of multiple novels, a personality defined by the game, vs a cliched pile of garbage dumped in our faces? The level of creativity involved in th PW design is right around 3rd grade level. There's nothing new, nothing creative, just a bunch of generic fantasy archetypes crammed together, and end up churning out something less than the sum of it's parts. They are just godawful in every single way.
This. In the grand rock/paper/scissors matchup of MTG, discard beats control. For 1 black mana, you either make them counter that, and they lose a counter, or you pluck a counter out of thierhand, and they lose a counter.
As well as this. The way aggro wins is having more threats than they have answers. Keep pumping them out.
All you need. You have 4 bolts, and 4 Call to Minds to get bolts out of your graveyard.
Once again, this deck isn't about grinding or burning out a win. It's about stalling until you win in one turn. Bounce is WAY better in that second scenario. If you are creature heavy, use unsummon, if you are not creature heavy, you use Regress (each on top of the 4 Into the Roil)
Not entirely true. While I feel a couple PW's are poorly costed (JTMS should be 4UU), my biggest complaint about PW's is thier impact on flavor. We get mind numbing cliches crammed down our throat as the "face of the game". We get the PW affliated cards which absolutely guts those cards of any sense of intrigue or wonder.
Planeswalkers take magic from Shakespeare, to Twilight. They remove the mystery, and replace it with in your face cliched marketing. "Hey, red is the color of fire, so we're going to make the ultimate fire chick card, and just to show you that she's REALLY red, we'll give her flaming hair (cause no ones ever done that before). See? Flaming hair? that's RED, man! And we'll make a fire creature named after her, and a fire burn spell named after her!! She's the red mage and she uses fire!! Get it!! God, we're so clever!!"
It's such poo, unimaginative design that it borders on the insulting. Planeswalkers dumb down the game FAR more than any rules change could ever hope for. They make the game less rich, less interesting, less mysterious, less intriguing, which all ultimately make the game less playable. There were a complete mistake, up there with the putting the sword and shield on the Portal cards, of the mechaanical look of the new card frames. The are the antithesis of everything that drew me to MTG in he first place.
MTG is not a winnable game. I know it looks like it is, and it appeals to the nerd fascinaiton with trying to use thier cleverness to see the secret tech no one else and then built the most awesome unbeatable deck ever. You won't.
I can see why you are losing. Surreal Memoir is way to expensive for the deck. Staggershick is too expensive for the deck. burst lightning isn't needed in the deck. you're not running preordain which is an auto 4 of in the deck.
As for the banned card, it sucks, but as a player, you should be familiar with the banned cards in the format you are playing in. Reporting it to WoTC isn't going to do anything, and getting a store unsanciotned is one less store keeping the game going.
Sure it does, casual rouge decks can dominate tournaments if they are focused on a particular archetype. I've won legacy tourney before with my BS casual mill deck, because who in the world plays mill competitvely in Legacy, and no had answers for it. One of the greatest weaknesses of competitve tournamanet players is that they are completely focused on whatever the internet tells them the tier 1 decks are, and they have no ability to adapt to decks other than those.
Going ultra heavy on Counterspell isn't that bad a plan, since it keeps you alive, and gets the ascension on quick. In the 6 games I played last night, most times I got the ascensoin online due to counterspell or Force of Will.
time Warp needs to go. It's too slow, and too fragile. I suspect a better deck would come of cutting that and call to Mind and slapping in more high quality burn. If only I have Chain Lightning's
Pyroclasm and/or Volcanic Fallout are all but absolute must haves in the SB. I could easily seen an argument for running them MD if your have an aggro heavy meta.
Also, Accumulated Knowledge works REALLY well in the deck, it's an instant and with an active Ascension (which isn't TO hard to get) you can draw a ton for cheap.
I like 4 call to mind. I disagree it's a bad card, even if you can't go infinite, a doubled call to mind can pull two of the exact answer you need out of your graveyard. It's a little pricey at 3 mana, but it's basicall a Bounce/Counter/Draw/Burn/Timewarp fetcher all wrapped up into one.
No you won't. You will never reliably make more than you spend on MTG cards. I will never understand why people cling so much to the fallacy that they are somhow going to come out ahead $$ wise. You aren't. You might get lucky, but over the course of a box, you will lose. It's like the casino, anyone can win a hand of blackjack and make $$, but keep playing, and you will lose.
I agree, if you are going to get dual use out of the See Beyond from a Polymorph SB, then that would be a compelling reason to play it. But personally I don't like the Polymorph SB idea, if you want to build a polymorph deck, you can build a better one that cramming some cards into an ascension deck to make it a half assed polymorph deck.