What about them? They were printed with mulitplayer in mind. Some of them are good, and some crazily so, but they are all seven mana to cast. The debate in question is about cards that were printed before the rules of Commander existed.
Serra Ascendant and Felidar Sovereign were printed long after EDH was a thing. Anyways, I've never seen Serra Ascendant win a game of EDH and I can count the number of times I've seen someone win with Felidar on one hand (and hes played quite frequently in our playgroup). Honestly, if someone wins with Felidar, I'm usually pretty happy since its so difficult to protect. In fact, I'd much rather someone win with Felidar than Exsanguinate or Insurrection.
"Whenever a non-token creature would be put into a graveyard from the battlefield, that creature's controller puts a token onto the battlefield that is a copy of that creature except it is a black spirit in addition to its other colors and types and has 'Whenever this creature becomes the target of a spell or ability, destroy this creature.'"
Flavorwise, its like you have to fight every creature's shadow after it dies. Mechanically, its good with sac outlets like altar of dementia and provides some anti-wrath tech for black aggro decks.
Urrrghhh. Diluvian Primordial is obviously a great EDH card, but it lacks all subtlety. Wizards, can we please stop printing powerful edh staple cards like this? Every time someone plays this I'm going to what to kill myself as they proceed to take a 20 minute turn looking through everyone's graveyards and figuring out how to stack 5 spells at once.
This is also a card that in essence does the same thing but is more vulnerable than trade secrets and costs more mana. It does accomplish the same thing but at far more mana.
Yeah but C-Sphinx is easier to recur, copy, steal, etc. I don't feel particularly strongly about trade secrets. My knee-jerk reaction is not to ban it, but I can see people's points. I am also not as exposed to its abuse since no one plays it in my playgroup but C-Sphinx is rampantly played.
I voted no. Trade secrets is no different than two people with C-Sphinx out drawing their entire libraries - and I would argue that C-Sphinx is much more degenerate/problematic than trade secrets.
I'm pretty sure most of the cards that would have been legendary under modern templating from Arabian Nights are so old and so garbage that most players wouldn't actually notice they're not technically legal commanders.
Yeah but I think Aladdin, Ali from Cairo, and Old Man of the Sea could make potentially interesting commanders. Its the weird inconsistency that bothers me the most, especially since they are willing to retroactively change types of cards (such as when they consolidated creature types).
Its good in almost any green deck. Its like a caged sun that works in multi-colored decks and can't be destroyed. Every time a person in my playgroup casts it, stupid things happen. Its definitely worth using.
Even though my playgroup rarely plays Primeval Titan, I'm still okay with this being banned. I personally think Consecrated Sphinx is more degenerate, but oh well.
I'm glad Kokusho is unbanned. I don't think he will be nearly as dominating as he used to be with the ton of amazing graveyard hate that has been printed in recent sets. Plus, because his ability triggers on the graveyard, its harder for him to be passed around the table like Sphinx or Primetime.
I have never seen Worldfire actually played, so I have no opinions on it being banned.
RtR has the following mechanics: Detain, Populate, Overload, Scavange, and Unleash
Out of the 5 new types of abilities... Overload is the only one that is even mildly ok enough to run in commander. I am not saying that all of the cards are even ok but from the standpoint of the mechanic it actually scales alright into multiplayer. The other 4 mechanics totally blow for multiplayer.
I suppose if you are more of a 1v1 commander player more of those might open up to being alright.
Yeah but how often do you see cards with Forecast, Radiate, Haunt, Hellbent, Replicate, Bloodthirst, etc. in EDH decks? The only guild mechanic from the original block that sees sufficient play in the format is Transmute (and maybe Dredge). The strength of the original block didn't lie in keywords, so it makes sense its predecessor would follow suit.
Personally, I like the set a lot. There is something for every deck of mine and the set is going to spawn at least one new deck for me. I think people's millage with this set varies with how much they like each guild. My three favorite guilds are in this set, so of course I'm going to like it, and likewise, I'm unexcited about gatecrash since I'm 'meh' on most of those guilds.
This is incredibly disappointing. At first I thought the price tag was a mistake or something. A pack of sleeves, some tokens, and a handful of cards is not worth $75 dollars. I was hoping for something similar to the deckbuilder's toolkit, but I guess I'll be passing this product up.
But in that scenario, as soon as you tap Krenko, you can swing in with 8 2/2 goblins, which should be enough to kill them assuming you did any damage to them in the early stages in the game. If they survive, tapping Krenko and swinging with your team is sure to kill them anyways. Burn at the Stake is a win-more and I don't want to risk having a 5 drop in my hand that I might not be able to cast.
How is Cavern of Souls in this deck? I haven't had the money to try it out, but it doesn't seem like it belongs. Since there are only red goblins, the color fixing ability is pointless and control decks would board out all of their counterspells after game one anyways. What are people's experiences with this card?
Hey guys, I've been having a lot of success with this build online. It probably needs a couple of cards like Cavern of Souls and Bonfire, but its been doing well. I would never run less than 3 Krenkos. He is an absolute beast. If you have a chieftain out, you win the game on the spot. If not, your opponent has one turn to get rid of him and if they fail, you win. Any thoughts, comments, suggestions are always appreciated.
There has to be another 4 cc creature that is better than Bloodline Keeper. Something with a bit more toughness. He's powerful, true, but he's just so removal prone. There is a lot of removal that he can bite the dust with, which is what scares me. Heck, Shock can kill him. I'm just not feeling it. I'll give him a go, but I'm not expecting much. Corrosive Gale is a card still that many people don't think of, but man, that'd stink to have the keeper and all the tokens x'ed froma SB card anyone can play. It's showed up a lot in recent decks; especially ones that don't play delver/lingering souls.
Staff of Nin is superb. In any kind of control deck, it is just so easy to keep board control. It adds to the win con (albeit really SLOW), it draws you an extra card each turn for free, so you can keep those answers for aggro coming. Bonfire of the Damned loses a bit of power though with any card draw this style plays. If an all flyer approach is kept, Magmaquake is indeed the answer, Chesterfield. It negates you playing Liliana of the Veil effectively, however....
Yeah my sweeper package is designed to not hurt any of my own creatures. I haven't had an issue running Liliana with Magmaquake. In the match-ups where I need magmaquake, Liliana would just come down, be a cruel edict, and then die anyways. In the match-ups where I need to fully utilize Liliana (Delver & control), then I probably don't need to cast magmaquake anyways.
Also Bloodline keeper has been good against aggro. The only removal most aggro decks are running these days is like Bonfire of the Damned (which is unreliable), Pillar of Flame/Gut Shot (which can't kill him unless you use both) and Dismember (which can kill anything so whateva) so he usually sticks around and provides perpetual blockers for me. If left alone, he can end the game pretty quickly. Its disgusting how many times I've done 15+ damage in one turn with just a flipped bloodline keeper and the tokens he made. Vapor Snag is pretty annoying for him though, and obviously, if people use corrosive gale in your meta, then an all-flier approach is not the way to go for you.
this is why you should run faithless looting rather than sign in blood. you can throw away two crap cards and flashback is wonderful. SiB only has advantage when your hand is empty.
I was running faithless. It was okay. Having it in your opening hand is awful and I wasn't running enough flashback/reanimation to really make it worthwhile. As I said, the ramp/titan build was never consistent enough for me. If I'm trying to ramp into titans, I might as well play Wolf Run.
@pheonixblade: Yeah I played with watchkeep for a bit more today, and while he is a beating sometimes, hes pretty easy to play around. I've switched him out of my board for Despise already. I've tried running Ghost Quarter, but I was having trouble with my mana. The deck needs double black and red as soon as possible which made ghost quarter awkward more often than not. I usually don't have too many problems with Haunt anyways (Kessig is problematic sometimes though). Also, try bloodline keeper. He is actually quite good right now since many green decks have trouble interacting with him and he gets out of control quickly. Curse of Death's Hold is sometimes great and sometimes mediocre in my experience. I love the card though, so I'm trying to squeeze some room in my board for it.
Serra Ascendant and Felidar Sovereign were printed long after EDH was a thing. Anyways, I've never seen Serra Ascendant win a game of EDH and I can count the number of times I've seen someone win with Felidar on one hand (and hes played quite frequently in our playgroup). Honestly, if someone wins with Felidar, I'm usually pretty happy since its so difficult to protect. In fact, I'd much rather someone win with Felidar than Exsanguinate or Insurrection.
"Whenever a non-token creature would be put into a graveyard from the battlefield, that creature's controller puts a token onto the battlefield that is a copy of that creature except it is a black spirit in addition to its other colors and types and has 'Whenever this creature becomes the target of a spell or ability, destroy this creature.'"
Flavorwise, its like you have to fight every creature's shadow after it dies. Mechanically, its good with sac outlets like altar of dementia and provides some anti-wrath tech for black aggro decks.
I didn't say it was a solution. I just said it was fun to pull off, which is what this format is all about right?
Yeah but C-Sphinx is easier to recur, copy, steal, etc. I don't feel particularly strongly about trade secrets. My knee-jerk reaction is not to ban it, but I can see people's points. I am also not as exposed to its abuse since no one plays it in my playgroup but C-Sphinx is rampantly played.
Plus its fun to hit people with Cerebral Vortex or Sudden Impact type cards after trade secrets goes off.
Yeah but I think Aladdin, Ali from Cairo, and Old Man of the Sea could make potentially interesting commanders. Its the weird inconsistency that bothers me the most, especially since they are willing to retroactively change types of cards (such as when they consolidated creature types).
I'm glad Kokusho is unbanned. I don't think he will be nearly as dominating as he used to be with the ton of amazing graveyard hate that has been printed in recent sets. Plus, because his ability triggers on the graveyard, its harder for him to be passed around the table like Sphinx or Primetime.
I have never seen Worldfire actually played, so I have no opinions on it being banned.
Yeah but how often do you see cards with Forecast, Radiate, Haunt, Hellbent, Replicate, Bloodthirst, etc. in EDH decks? The only guild mechanic from the original block that sees sufficient play in the format is Transmute (and maybe Dredge). The strength of the original block didn't lie in keywords, so it makes sense its predecessor would follow suit.
Personally, I like the set a lot. There is something for every deck of mine and the set is going to spawn at least one new deck for me. I think people's millage with this set varies with how much they like each guild. My three favorite guilds are in this set, so of course I'm going to like it, and likewise, I'm unexcited about gatecrash since I'm 'meh' on most of those guilds.
But in that scenario, as soon as you tap Krenko, you can swing in with 8 2/2 goblins, which should be enough to kill them assuming you did any damage to them in the early stages in the game. If they survive, tapping Krenko and swinging with your team is sure to kill them anyways. Burn at the Stake is a win-more and I don't want to risk having a 5 drop in my hand that I might not be able to cast.
How is Cavern of Souls in this deck? I haven't had the money to try it out, but it doesn't seem like it belongs. Since there are only red goblins, the color fixing ability is pointless and control decks would board out all of their counterspells after game one anyways. What are people's experiences with this card?
23 Mountain
4 Goblin Arsonist
4 Goblin Fireslinger
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Wardriver
3 Krenko, Mob Boss
2 Spikeshot Elder
3 Pillar of Flame
3 Brimstone Volley
3 Goblin Grenade
3 Arc Trail
4 Shrine of Burning Rage
3 Mark of Mutiny
3 Manic Vandal
2 Koth of the Hammer
2 Manabarbs
1 Arc Trail
Yeah my sweeper package is designed to not hurt any of my own creatures. I haven't had an issue running Liliana with Magmaquake. In the match-ups where I need magmaquake, Liliana would just come down, be a cruel edict, and then die anyways. In the match-ups where I need to fully utilize Liliana (Delver & control), then I probably don't need to cast magmaquake anyways.
Also Bloodline keeper has been good against aggro. The only removal most aggro decks are running these days is like Bonfire of the Damned (which is unreliable), Pillar of Flame/Gut Shot (which can't kill him unless you use both) and Dismember (which can kill anything so whateva) so he usually sticks around and provides perpetual blockers for me. If left alone, he can end the game pretty quickly. Its disgusting how many times I've done 15+ damage in one turn with just a flipped bloodline keeper and the tokens he made. Vapor Snag is pretty annoying for him though, and obviously, if people use corrosive gale in your meta, then an all-flier approach is not the way to go for you.
I was running faithless. It was okay. Having it in your opening hand is awful and I wasn't running enough flashback/reanimation to really make it worthwhile. As I said, the ramp/titan build was never consistent enough for me. If I'm trying to ramp into titans, I might as well play Wolf Run.
@pheonixblade: Yeah I played with watchkeep for a bit more today, and while he is a beating sometimes, hes pretty easy to play around. I've switched him out of my board for Despise already. I've tried running Ghost Quarter, but I was having trouble with my mana. The deck needs double black and red as soon as possible which made ghost quarter awkward more often than not. I usually don't have too many problems with Haunt anyways (Kessig is problematic sometimes though). Also, try bloodline keeper. He is actually quite good right now since many green decks have trouble interacting with him and he gets out of control quickly. Curse of Death's Hold is sometimes great and sometimes mediocre in my experience. I love the card though, so I'm trying to squeeze some room in my board for it.