As soon as I saw her, I thought she'd be an awesome superfriends commander. I personally don't like losing Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker if she's the commander. Also, we actually want her to survive, which means making a more creature-friendly deck, at which point I would want to run Narset, Enlightened Master and Maelstrom Wanderer, but they both have red. I think I will try her in the 99 when I build a different version of the deck, but I'd love to see what other people build with her in the lead.
He feels underwhelming to me. Slowing one creature is all to often not enough. Card draw is great, and the lifegain is a bonus, but I'd rather be gaining loyalty than spending it. And the emblem is quite oppressive, but I just don't see it happening very often, as it's even out of Doubling Season range and his plus just isn't that great.
Bottom line - no, there is no possible way to make something completely invincible. Even when hexproofed and indestructible, you still have to deal with bounce, tuck, sacrifice, theft, and 0 toughness. Even with the Erayo/Laboratory lock, there is Boseiju, Who Shelters All and Terminus or Cyclonic Rift or Insurrection.
There are certainly ways to make creatures harder to remove (think original Sigarda with indestructible), but the best thing about MTG is that there is an answer to everything. If there wasn't, the game could be broken. But with everything having some answer, it balances the game and allows us to continue to have fun.
Hearing people misquote this gets tiring. Mark Rosewater never said that. Here is what he *actually* said, straight from the article:
"This now leads us to the next question: How are cards split between rare and mythic rare? Or more to the point, what kind of cards are going to become mythic rares? We want the flavor of mythic rare to be something that feels very special and unique. Generally speaking we expect that to mean cards like Planeswalkers, most legends, and epic-feeling creatures and spells. They will not just be a list of each set's most powerful tournament-level cards."
And they have absolutely held true to that definition. You are remembering incorrectly.
I couldn't agree with you more - it is very tiring to hear people misquote this. Yes, some mythics are powerful tournament-level cards, but not all of them are. Some are super cheap bulk cards worth less than a dollar that fit the other parts of Maro's definition.
I was really thinking the communication fiasco / lies post Mythics introduction ("those will never be staple tournament cards, they will focus on lore characters / flavor etc..." > Grim Flayer / Vengevine / Lotus Cobra / etc...) would make them think twice about taking everybody for a fool.
Oh, look - another misquote! Your rage might be justified if he had said that, but he didn't.
Chandra, Pyrogenius (4.5/10) - This Chandra is really bad. High mana cost for something that doesn't really affect the board. Ulting it is decent, but I'd rather cast a wrath and hit all opponent's creatures.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance (8/10) - I want to try her, and I wonder if I was a little conservative with her rating. I normally hate abilities that exile a card and only give you one chance to cast it before losing it forever, but in this case, she at least does something beneficial if you aren't able to cast it. Obviously better with Divining Top or scry. The extra mana ability is nice - sometimes it will be useful. Paying loyalty for a single target creature removal (and only for smaller creatures) is a bit lame. Her emblem is really, really good and totally worth burning out all of Chandra's loyalty for. Even better, she can ult and stay alive the turn she comes into play if you have Doubling Season. Overall, I'd say this is easily the best Chandra variant for superfriends.
Nissa, Vital Force (6.5/10) - I normally dislike animating my land and making it vulnerable to removal, but this ability does keep a rather large blocker around until your next turn before wearing off, allowing you to wrath with impunity. I would consider adding Darksteel Citadel if I planned on activating that ability often. Her regrowth ability is awesome, allowing us to bring back any other walker or utility permanent. And her ult is very good if you are still hitting land drops.
Saheeli Rai (4.5/10) - Scry without draw isn't great. Clone tokens would be okay if they stuck around but are weakened by the fact that it only copies things you control and can't stay to block. The ult is pretty good but probably not worth building up to in this deck. I could totally see her in an artifact-heavy variant with Tezzeret and Daretti.
I love this set for some of my other decks, but really, the only card I'm considering for superfriends is Chandra, Torch of Defiance.
Both actions are causing the creatures toughness to go to zero and or less.
Damage does not reduce the creature's toughness. A 2/5 with 6 damage on it still has 5 toughness and would normally die because the damage is equal to or greater than its toughness (although indestructible prevents lethal damage from destroying it). A spell or effect or counters that reduces toughness is different - it actually does the math and reduces toughness. Any creature with toughness 0 or less will die, regardless of indestructible.
Absolutely a great card for Karlov. Every spell becomes a new lifegain trigger, beefing him to insane proportions. Even without this, I frequently find myself over 100 life with Karlov. A card that doubles as multiple lifegain triggers and a potential wincon should be an auto-include.
Daretti and Kaya are certainly interesting, but I can't decide if either one makes the cut.
I really like Daretti's cost - three mana is far below average. He makes tokens for chum blocking, and if those tokens survive, he can use them as removal (sad that he has to sac artifacts and not just any token). His ult is a bit weak for us and very dependent on the game-state. Are we copying mana rocks? Chain Veils? Contagion stuff? I'm fairly certain any Superfriends build that runs him would also want Tezzeret the Seeker and the artifact lands. Honestly, he seems most fun with Mycosynth Lattice, but I don't see why we would run that in Superfriends.
Kaya is interesting and offers immediae card advantage (replaces herself and makes each opponent discard), but I'm not sure that is good enough. She doesn't affect the board much (short of blinking one creature). Overall, I think she's great in Orzhov blink, but I'm not sure she'll make it in my Superfriends. Sorin does card draw and life drain/gain better.
I have tossed around the idea of a modular box as discussed above, but I enjoy playing a lot of different styles in pretty rapid succession. I feel, for example, that if I took my time to create a box and then build something from it, I would not have as much fun with the taking cards out and reorganizing those cards back into the box every time I want to play a different deck.
Has anyone had experience with this style of organization? Do others struggle with the co-occurring condition of compulsively building decks AND wanting to play 3-4 different decks in a night?
I'm still getting everything organized, but for the past month, I have been playing 3-4 decks a week from the cube. Actually, I guess it's been 2-3 decks from the cube plus 1-2 from outside the cube. There are a few decks I have that share so few cards that it doesn't make sense to incorporate them. I find that as long as I have a current decklist, it isn't that hard to slap a deck back together. The biggest issue really is keeping current, organized decklists - without those you would be a bit lost.
Sorin, Grim Nemesis is the best of them all for superfriends. Adding loyalty counters all while allowing card advantage and hurting your opponents is boss. His ultimate is pretty broken as well giving you a whole bunch of tokens in the process.
So who would you choose to cut - Sorin Markov or Sorin, Lord of Innistrad? At this point, I'm leaning towards cutting Sorin Markov - he is powerful, but in a very swingy, usually one-shot type of way, while Sorin, Lord of Innistrad provides continuous value (and can protect himself). Dropping the mana curve and color requirements is a plus, too.
Honestly, I would cut Deploy the Gatewatch. It seems great on paper but everytime I've used it I've sent key cards to the bottom of the deck. That, and you can only choose 2 planeswalkers to cheat into play. I'd rather just be able to draw a bunch of cards and cheat the planeswalkers into play another way. So far, I've never been happy resolving Deploy the Gatewatch. I actually took it out for Sorin, Grim Nemesis and took out Omniscience for Tamiyo, Field Researcher.
I probably will cut Deploy the Gatewatch once I get my hands on Tamiyo (no one locally will trade one yet), but I do want to play it one more time just to satisfy my curiosity. I'm guessing Genesis Wave would typically be better to run, and I haven't even tried that yet.
What other early game ramp cards do you guys like? I've tested this package and got some great results so far.
My group isn't nearly cutthroat enough to warrant such expensive mana rocks, but I can definitely see the attraction if you need a faster start. Anyone else have input here?
I plan on trying Liliana, the Last Hope as well as Tamiyo. Put both in, along with Oath of Liliana and Deploy the Gatewatch, I'll have to see how that goes. I want to try Lili because she seems to me to be very similar to the original Kiora, which I run and have been able to get to Ulti multiple times even though she is not directly synergistic with Doubling Season, and I hope that Liliana will be the same way. That Ultimate is just bonkers, at least 2 (4 if doubling) blockers a turn, with the ability to get absolutely bonkers, seems like a good thing to try for.
For changes:
Sudden Spoiling -> Oath of Liliana
Spike Weaver -> Deploy the Gatewatch (I am trying this, Weaver often dies too early in my playgroup to do much, and I want to test Deploy, may end up switching this one back)
Arlinn Kord -> Tamiyo, Field Researcher
Garruk Relentless -> Liliana, the Last Hope.
I can't imagine ever cutting Sudden Spoiling from my build, because it has so many uses, but I am with you on cutting Spike Weaver - I just cut it to make room for Oath of Liliana. In theory, and even in practice, it can be great, but sometimes it's just too slow or it eats removal. It's one of the cards I am least sad to see go.
And now it's time for Battle of the Sorins!
I have obtained a copy of Sorin, Grim Nemesis, and I need to decide which two Sorins will reign supreme. As I've mentioned before, I no longer allow more than two versions of the same walker in my deck because with more I often had dead cards in hand or had to lose an existing walker. Sorin Markov - With a triple colored mana requirement, he is the hardest to cast. His plus ability is somewhat underwhelming, even if lifegain is sometimes welcome. But the ability to drop someone instantly to 10 life is insanely powerful and just gets better with Rings of Brighthearth. It's rare that he pulls his ultimate, but it can be a gamebreaker when he does. Sorin, Grim Nemesis - Six mana is a bit high, but only two of it is color-specific. His plus is amazing, combining card draw with a potential wincon. I can't imagine using the middle ability very often, but it could be useful in some cases. The ultimate is fairly good, popping out an entire army with built-in lifelink, but they are fairly weak and could easily be swept away before doing anything. There's some definite synergy with Doubling Season. Sorin, Lord of Innistrad - Four mana makes this more appealing to cast. A plus that protects your walkers and potentially gains life is nice. The emblem is nice, too, and makes your tokens more threatening. The ultimate is also nice, allowing you to reset your own walkers or steal the biggest threats (creature or walker) on the board.
At some point in my life, I tried 86 different commander, 12 are still alive...yep I have a problem :|
After your post, I decided to reorganize my OP by color combo, and it led to interesting discoveries for me. I always knew that Orzhov and Golgari were some of my favorite color combos, but I didn't realize just how off-balanced it was. Also, I realized I had never build Azorius or Sultai (I knew I had never done true colorless). I am still trying to organize the cube, and I'm starting to think 2,000 sleeves wasn't enough for me. Plus, it takes forever doing the actual organizing and recording. It should get better in the long run, though. I suppose it doesn't help that I've been building and playing new decks (Atarka, Brion, and Rakdos in the last month).
Vorinclex has actually been out of the deck for ages (not a fan of the games he inspires), but I never listed the change. Anyway, Rhys is taking that slot.
The new Thalia is awesome, offering a legendary (and therefor tutorable) alternative to Imposing Sovereign. I just traded for her and am very excited to give it a try.
Sounds like a bummer not being able to get lucky with Deploy the Gatewatch. I was very lucky prerelease weekend and scored both Tamiyo and Liliana. However, only Tamiyo's gonna find a home in my superfriends deck. I think that the SOI Sorin should find a place in the deck since the mana curve is pretty steep so you can hurt some opponents while you're basically drawing a card each turn. The ultimate is nothing to scoff at, either.
I've been debating whether I should add Sorin, Grim Nemesis - it feels like a no-brainer because he is so good, but the question is, which Sorin do I cut to make room for him? (I no longer allow more than two versions of the same walker in my build because it leads to less dead cards).
I traded for Deploy the Gatewatch and Oath of Liliana last night before shuffling up to play. I drew Deploy the Gatewatch, cast it, ...and whiffed. Not a single planeswalker in the top seven. It made me sad. I want to play it a few more times before I make a decision, but I may not keep it in my main build - it may only go in the cheat build.
Despite the failure to deploy, the game was a huge success. I got four lands off a Tempt with Discovery before dropping Humility and Jace, Mirari's Wake, Contagion Clasp, Contagion Engine, and Doubling Season. I then proceeded to wipe the floor with my opponents. I got Teferi's emblem and Ajani's Emblem, and I ulted Jace twice and Chandra three or four times. Each planeswalker had a stack of dice on them. My last couple turns ran a little long, but I killed everyone during those couple turns.
I'll update the OP soon (hoping to get a Tamiyo this week).
I was just looking at the list to see what to cut for the Sigarda's Aid I traded for last night, when I realized that I forgot to update a few months back when I added Blade of Selves. Looks like I need to go through it thoroughly to see what other changes I've missed. I'm also debating Ironclad Slayer. It's always so difficult to find slots, though.
I am really looking forward to playing with Sigarda's Aid. It's awesome utility, allowing my swords to become combat tricks and getting past the initial equip cost. Even if I don't have an equipment in hand, the card acts like a rattlesnake if I have even one card in hand - no one knows whether the board will change or not if they attack.
Angel of Despair may have recently been outclassed, but it will remain my favorite card - awesome art and a powerful ETB ability in colors than allow it to be recurred either by blinking or through reanimation, all stapled to a big flying body. What's not to love?
He feels underwhelming to me. Slowing one creature is all to often not enough. Card draw is great, and the lifegain is a bonus, but I'd rather be gaining loyalty than spending it. And the emblem is quite oppressive, but I just don't see it happening very often, as it's even out of Doubling Season range and his plus just isn't that great.
Has anyone else tried running Dovin?
There are certainly ways to make creatures harder to remove (think original Sigarda with indestructible), but the best thing about MTG is that there is an answer to everything. If there wasn't, the game could be broken. But with everything having some answer, it balances the game and allows us to continue to have fun.
Oh, look - another misquote! Your rage might be justified if he had said that, but he didn't.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance (8/10) - I want to try her, and I wonder if I was a little conservative with her rating. I normally hate abilities that exile a card and only give you one chance to cast it before losing it forever, but in this case, she at least does something beneficial if you aren't able to cast it. Obviously better with Divining Top or scry. The extra mana ability is nice - sometimes it will be useful. Paying loyalty for a single target creature removal (and only for smaller creatures) is a bit lame. Her emblem is really, really good and totally worth burning out all of Chandra's loyalty for. Even better, she can ult and stay alive the turn she comes into play if you have Doubling Season. Overall, I'd say this is easily the best Chandra variant for superfriends.
Nissa, Nature's Artisan (3/10) - Essentially, this is a one-shot double Coiling Oracle for six mana that might survive long enough to gain you a tiny bit of life. I'd rather run Coiling Oracle.
Nissa, Vital Force (6.5/10) - I normally dislike animating my land and making it vulnerable to removal, but this ability does keep a rather large blocker around until your next turn before wearing off, allowing you to wrath with impunity. I would consider adding Darksteel Citadel if I planned on activating that ability often. Her regrowth ability is awesome, allowing us to bring back any other walker or utility permanent. And her ult is very good if you are still hitting land drops.
Saheeli Rai (4.5/10) - Scry without draw isn't great. Clone tokens would be okay if they stuck around but are weakened by the fact that it only copies things you control and can't stay to block. The ult is pretty good but probably not worth building up to in this deck. I could totally see her in an artifact-heavy variant with Tezzeret and Daretti.
I love this set for some of my other decks, but really, the only card I'm considering for superfriends is Chandra, Torch of Defiance.
Absolutely a great card for Karlov. Every spell becomes a new lifegain trigger, beefing him to insane proportions. Even without this, I frequently find myself over 100 life with Karlov. A card that doubles as multiple lifegain triggers and a potential wincon should be an auto-include.
I really like Daretti's cost - three mana is far below average. He makes tokens for chum blocking, and if those tokens survive, he can use them as removal (sad that he has to sac artifacts and not just any token). His ult is a bit weak for us and very dependent on the game-state. Are we copying mana rocks? Chain Veils? Contagion stuff? I'm fairly certain any Superfriends build that runs him would also want Tezzeret the Seeker and the artifact lands. Honestly, he seems most fun with Mycosynth Lattice, but I don't see why we would run that in Superfriends.
Kaya is interesting and offers immediae card advantage (replaces herself and makes each opponent discard), but I'm not sure that is good enough. She doesn't affect the board much (short of blinking one creature). Overall, I think she's great in Orzhov blink, but I'm not sure she'll make it in my Superfriends. Sorin does card draw and life drain/gain better.
My group isn't nearly cutthroat enough to warrant such expensive mana rocks, but I can definitely see the attraction if you need a faster start. Anyone else have input here?
I can't imagine ever cutting Sudden Spoiling from my build, because it has so many uses, but I am with you on cutting Spike Weaver - I just cut it to make room for Oath of Liliana. In theory, and even in practice, it can be great, but sometimes it's just too slow or it eats removal. It's one of the cards I am least sad to see go.
And now it's time for Battle of the Sorins!
I have obtained a copy of Sorin, Grim Nemesis, and I need to decide which two Sorins will reign supreme. As I've mentioned before, I no longer allow more than two versions of the same walker in my deck because with more I often had dead cards in hand or had to lose an existing walker.
Sorin Markov - With a triple colored mana requirement, he is the hardest to cast. His plus ability is somewhat underwhelming, even if lifegain is sometimes welcome. But the ability to drop someone instantly to 10 life is insanely powerful and just gets better with Rings of Brighthearth. It's rare that he pulls his ultimate, but it can be a gamebreaker when he does.
Sorin, Grim Nemesis - Six mana is a bit high, but only two of it is color-specific. His plus is amazing, combining card draw with a potential wincon. I can't imagine using the middle ability very often, but it could be useful in some cases. The ultimate is fairly good, popping out an entire army with built-in lifelink, but they are fairly weak and could easily be swept away before doing anything. There's some definite synergy with Doubling Season.
Sorin, Lord of Innistrad - Four mana makes this more appealing to cast. A plus that protects your walkers and potentially gains life is nice. The emblem is nice, too, and makes your tokens more threatening. The ultimate is also nice, allowing you to reset your own walkers or steal the biggest threats (creature or walker) on the board.
So, which two do you think are the best overall?
After your post, I decided to reorganize my OP by color combo, and it led to interesting discoveries for me. I always knew that Orzhov and Golgari were some of my favorite color combos, but I didn't realize just how off-balanced it was. Also, I realized I had never build Azorius or Sultai (I knew I had never done true colorless). I am still trying to organize the cube, and I'm starting to think 2,000 sleeves wasn't enough for me. Plus, it takes forever doing the actual organizing and recording. It should get better in the long run, though. I suppose it doesn't help that I've been building and playing new decks (Atarka, Brion, and Rakdos in the last month).
1 Imposing Sovereign
1 Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
1 Rhys the Redeemed
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
Vorinclex has actually been out of the deck for ages (not a fan of the games he inspires), but I never listed the change. Anyway, Rhys is taking that slot.
The new Thalia is awesome, offering a legendary (and therefor tutorable) alternative to Imposing Sovereign. I just traded for her and am very excited to give it a try.
Despite the failure to deploy, the game was a huge success. I got four lands off a Tempt with Discovery before dropping Humility and Jace, Mirari's Wake, Contagion Clasp, Contagion Engine, and Doubling Season. I then proceeded to wipe the floor with my opponents. I got Teferi's emblem and Ajani's Emblem, and I ulted Jace twice and Chandra three or four times. Each planeswalker had a stack of dice on them. My last couple turns ran a little long, but I killed everyone during those couple turns.
I'll update the OP soon (hoping to get a Tamiyo this week).
I am really looking forward to playing with Sigarda's Aid. It's awesome utility, allowing my swords to become combat tricks and getting past the initial equip cost. Even if I don't have an equipment in hand, the card acts like a rattlesnake if I have even one card in hand - no one knows whether the board will change or not if they attack.