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  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    So what do you guys think about graveyard and artifact hate? How much do you guys play, and what sort? I have found the initial build of my new cube to be a little light on both.

    For artifact hate, I think I'll just re-add Manic Vandal and call it a day.

    The graveyard is a five color theme in my cube, so I think I need more easily available grave hate. I'm playing Phyrexian Furnace and Vessel of Endless Rest, and I think I'm going to add Bojuka Bog and Relic of Progenitus. I think Tormod's Crypt is just a little too useless on its own. Maybe I should acquire an Ashiok, Dream Render instead of playing Bojuka Bog.
    This is totally going to depend on the types of artifacts you run and how important it is to have an answer. I run 12 artifact hate cards in my 400-card peasant cube, but I also run Loxodon Warhammer, Sol Ring, Skullclamp, and other artifacts that are fairly strong. Some people choose to ban cards for power reasons, I prefer to pack in answers. Of the 11 answers I run, 11 come on a body, and Abrade offers an alternate mode.

    Apparently, I am only running 3 grave-hate cards (definitely feels light to me, now that I think of it), and you'd want a lot more if you have a heavy graveyard theme.

    With both categories, I like the cards to do more than just hate. They provide some other mode or option or at least a body.

    Here's what I run:

    Ainok Survivalist is the last morph after I stripped out the rest, and it'll be leaving soon, once I get a copy of Thrashing Brontodon.
    Mardu Woe-Reaper and Dryad Militantare both aggressive 2/1s for 1 mana, and Woe-Reaper is supported by 21 other Warriors (including one that makes Warrior tokens).
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on c19 - aka what kind of busted treats are we getting this time?
    Quote from Humphrey »
    mtgs is just slacking Commander 2019 Spoilers 59/302
    They only post the new cards for Commander precons - It's been that way for years. The reprints are listed in decklists, but why clutter up the spoiler page with those?
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on Marisi, Breaker of the Coil (Let's Brew!)
    Of the C19 commanders, the two who excite me most are Marisi and Volrath, but as everyone seems to be doing Volrath, I want to brew Marisi.

    Goad is a fun mechanic, and Disrupt Decorum is a hilarious card, so repeating it every turn seems even better. By forcing all of our opponents into a bloodbath, we can speed along the game and hopefully emerge victorious. In order to do this, we need to ensure that our creatures can get through. Once they do, though, it becomes easier to do a second time, as most of their creatures should be tapped from attacking.

    So what cards do we want? Without blue, we don't have many unbloackables, but we have plenty of creatures that are hard to block - Shadow, Horsemanship, Flying, Trample, Landwalk, etc go a long way. We also want to maximize the damage that our opponents deal to each other. And we'll also want a few cards that remove an opponent's Ghostly Prison or other protection cards.

    What are your suggestions?


    Noteworthy cards:
    Bedlam - Guarantees that you can get through, then guarantees that opponents hit each other for maximum damage.
    Total War - Keeps them from sandbagging utility creatures.
    Blade of Selves - Ensures each opponent gets hit by one of our evasive creatures.
    Crescendo of War - Speeds up the clock.
    Grenzo, Havoc Raiser - Doubles as backup for our commander and gives us potential card advantage/resources when our plan A is working.
    Berserk & Blood Frenzy - Can be used to pump and then remove a goaded creature for maximum value.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    If you cared about substance you would have addressed my whole post instead of just focusing on the style of the first sentence of it like a sophist.
    I've posted substance already, which I felt was decently explained. I'm just getting sick of your trite "anything that magic players hate is good for the game" line. I could quote my previous replies to your repetitious statement, if you like. It's derailed more than one thread and been refuted by multiple people. But you've proven again and again that you just want to be contrarian, make inflammatory statements, and then play the victim - "Oh, I got banned for having an opinion."

    I still stand by this statement:
    Quote from FunkyDragon »
    Saying true things that people don't want to hear isn't allowed of course, so I'm being branded a troll despite me genuinely holding these views.
    It's less what you say and more how you say it. Being abrasive isn't the same as being truthful. I'm totally fine with people having opinions that oppose my own - but when they declare their own opinion as self-evident truth and act like every one else is an idiot, it gets really obnoxious.


    You want a focused debate on the rest of your post? You got it.
    Anything that Magic players hate is good for the game by definition, so the more 'feel bads' you have in your cube, the better designed your cube is.
    I suppose that depends on your purpose for building and playing a cube. My purpose is to have fun, to play limited, and to attempt to build a deck capable of creating the best game I can, to have the best memories afterward. The people I play with share that purpose. If every game is just a sequence of feel-bads, players will despair at the lack of strategic depth and grow bored at the lack of progress. They won't want to draft again. The cube will have killed itself.

    So, I take issue with your statement that "the more 'feel bads' you have in your cube, the better designed your cube is." I believe it to be based on a faulty premise, namely that "Anything that Magic players hate is good for the game by definition." Not only is this a reductive statement, mashing all Magic players into one nebulous hive-mind, as if there were no opposing opinions among them, but it also lacks coherent logic. Magic players like to play Magic, therefore, they want the game to continue and to be healthy; ergo, they would hate for the game to die, which by definition would be the opposite of being "good for the game."

    Even disregarding the faulty premise, let's address "the more 'feel bads' you have in your cube, the better designed your cube is." Allow me to present a hypothetical cube designed with the maximum of feel-bads.
    - You draft Training Drone, but there are no equipment in the cube.
    - Blind-Spot Giant is the only member of his species to be found.
    - Spatial Binding has no need to ever be activated, as there are no cards with phasing.
    - Bogbrew Witchis an overcosted 1/3 with nothing in the cube to search for.
    - Tombfire has no cards to remove, anywhere.
    - Great Wall again serves zero purpose.
    - Break Open doesn't have a single legal target in the cube.
    - etc.
    I think most people would agree that this is a steaming pile of unplayable garbage guaranteed to create a maximum of feel-bads. Is it well designed? I suppose if your purpose is to provide a miserable experience for all involved, then yes.

    Is this extreme? Yes, it's more a caricature of a cube than an actual cube. But it makes a point.
    What I mean by this is that if people have to actually work for synergies and earn neat combos as opposed to drafting EZmode cards and goodstuff piles, you're doing things right.
    What makes you think people don't have to work for synergies when presented with 15 good choices? How is it only work when they get 2 options with 13 obvious bad choices that can be thrown out without consideration? Seems to me that it's more work selecting the right thing when so many other amazing options present themselves and tempt you to stray in other directions.
    Restrictions breed creativity and you're going to have more interesting games when you don't give everyone unfettered access to *all* of the toys.
    I agree that restrictions breed creativity. Given that this is in the Peasant Cube subforum, one of the generally agreed upon restrictions is no rares. Pauper cubes take it even further. Given that cube is designed for draft or limited, another restriction is that you can only use cards opened in the packs, so you don't get access to all the toys. From there, you are correct that the cube builder can place restrictions on which cards they include, and which cards they exclude. Curating a cube is a very personal thing with near-infinite possibilities.

    But what determines "more interesting"? That's not an objective term - it's entirely subjective. What one Magic player finds interesting, another may not. One player may even find something interesting for a while and then grow dissatisfied with it over time. Years ago, I found group hug to be interesting in multi-player Commander; now I despise it and actively target anyone playing it.

    Maybe you prefer very low power, low floor cards. Maybe someone else doesn't find that interesting at all. Personally, I love building constructed decks designed to make bad cards shine, to hit their ceiling. But in limited, I want to play it a little safer. The added variance and loss of control by randomizing which cards you have access to means that you are far, far more likely to operate near floor level than ceiling level.
    If people have to work to get Bridge From Below into their graveyard or have to make voltrons out of non-hexproof creatures you'll end up with more fun stories than, "My good stuff pile took my opponent's slightly worse goodstuf pile to ValuTown faster."
    Again, you're forgetting different player psychographics. Maybe you find one situation to be a more fun story than someone else, but how is "My good stuff pile took my opponent's slightly worse goodstuf pile to ValuTown faster" any less valid than "My jankstuff pile took my opponent's slightly worse jankstuff pile to a ValuTown slightly faster"?

    I believe that the key to any good game is the challenge, the potential for either party to win or lose, and this requires relative balance. If one party has the clear advantage and never loses it, it makes for a bad game and, generally, a bad story (think of anytime one player was mana-screwed and just couldn't play - was it fun for either player?). This is true at every power level - two casual decks that are evenly pitted can create the same type of games as two competitive decks that are evenly matched.

    And part of making sure decks are evenly matched in a cube is to control levels of variance. We talk about a card's floor and ceiling - which do you think is more erratically variable?
    Bad floor, high ceiling OR Good floor, high ceiling
    Do you really want to leave it all to the luck of the draw whether you can even use one card because you did or didn't draw another? If you set a baseline that every card has to do something on its own, you aren't removing strategy from the equation; you're removing dumb luck. That's why some of us don't like parasitic cards that lead to more feel-bads.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    Anything that Magic players hate is good for the game by definition
    I'm of the opinion that anything that Magic players hate is good for the game
    Anything that Magic players hate is good for the game.
    Anything that Magic players hate is good for the game
    Repeating this over and over in every thread you post in isn't going to make it true. And saying "by definition" doesn't add any truth, authority, or dictionary reference to your statement.


    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    Quote from OptBoy »
    Ok, so archetype cards don't have to be parasitic. I think the most interesting cubing experience is one where lot of cards are decent on their own, but can be very good when the right synergy is there. Mix those in with your staples, and some truly parasitic cards. These parasitic cards can be helpful as signposts to the players, like 'see this Intangible Virtue? Tokens is a thing you could go for!'.
    I tend to be further away on that spectrum - I look at how many ways a purely parasitic card can just be a dead card. What happens if Intangible Virtue is in the third pack, so it doesn't signal until it's too late? What happens if it's in the first pack and you take it, only to get no more than one or two mediocre token producers for the rest of the draft? What happens if, while playing, you drop it but then never draw into token makers? What if you're playing defensively, chump blocking with tokens that never survive long enough to take advantage of the vigilance?

    I'd like to compare Favorable Winds and Empyrean Eagle.
    - Favorable Winds is 100% parasitic - it's a do-nothing card unless you get out flyer. In a vacuum, it costs two mana, takes up possibly an entire turn, and does absolutely nothing - it doesn't affect the opponent's board, and it doesn't help you win the game by itself. If you never draw a flyer, it's a dead card. If you have one flyer but the opponent kills or counters it, they've essentially gotten a free 2-for-1. Sure, it says "flyers is a thing," but it can lead you astray.
    - Empyrean Eagle also says "go flyers," but it provides a resonable threat on its own. You could never draw another flyer and yet still be happy having cast this. It's a reasonable blocker, and it's a pretty decent attacker. I've won many drafts on the back of a WUflying deck; evasion is not to be underestimated. If you get a second flyer out, it shines all the more. If they kill this, it's just a 1-for-1 and you've maintained parity (or even gotten in for a hit or two before they killed it).

    Of the two, I prefer the archetype card that always represents some value over the parasitic card that potentially represents a wasted pick, wasted resources, or a wasted turn.

    When you consider the drafting acronym BREAD (Bombs, Removal, Evasion, Advantage, Dudes), a purely parasitic card doesn't even place over a vanilla Grizzly Bears. Try to place Intangible Virtue or Favorable Winds in that acronym - unless the cube is The Token Cube or The Flying Cube, they don't fit; without support, they actually provide DisAdvantage, which is a really low floor. Phantom General is at the very minimum a Dude, and Empyrean Eagle is both Evasion and a Dude. Which card is going to lead to less feel-bads?
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on c19 - aka what kind of busted treats are we getting this time?
    Quote from Humphrey »
    did they suspend spoiler season?
    Suspend? They spoiled everything. There's less than 60 new cards, and only 7 are common/uncommon. They also spoiled the full decklists, but it doesn't look like any rarity shifts (which makes sense, as precons don't really distribute by rarity). So, we finally get a break from the past several sets with lots of goodies, and maybe I can play all the cards I've added before another set brings in new stuff.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    It has to do with a card's floor more than anything else... It's all up to individual card quality.
    That's an excellent way to put it. Because parasitic cards and mechanics can be powerful in constructed, where you use multiples and sculpt the perfect balance to reach the cards' ceiling, but in limited, you are more likely to experience their floor. And playing at a really bad floor level just leads to feel-bads.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    Quote from OptBoy »
    By that definition, I think it's not fun at all to build a cube without parasitic cards. Parasitic cards are harder to evaluate, since you'll have to take into consideration what synergies you have and are hoping to pick up later in the draft, more so with cards that are just good regardless. I don't want my drafts turning into 'pick the best cards and win'.

    EDIT: I dislike the term 'parasitic' for these cards. Can we call them 'archetype cards' or 'archetype-specific cards'. Parasitic is a word used to discribe things like the Energy mechanic from Kaladesh, not for individual cards.
    Nope, parasitic is a great term with a very specific meaning and can certainly be applied to individual cards - in fact, the whole reason they are parasitic is because they generally don't work well as individual cards.

    Take Evermind and Kodama's Might as examples. Both use the same mechanic. Evermind is entirely parasitic and a terrible card without a huge as-fan of arcane spells (arguably bad even with that). Kodama's Might could be played as a mediocre pump spell while completely ignoring the splice part of the text (and be strictly worse than Giant Growth, but that's not what we're discussing). One is parasitic because it can't work on its own. The other isn't good, but it isn't necessarily parasitic.

    As for energy, I run Aether Hub as a land with a one-time mana fixing ability that can go in any deck (with no other energy cards in the cube). It would certainly be even better with other sources of energy, but it does its thing without needing other specific cards.

    Parasitic cards are generally bad in limited because you waste picks if you can't get enough support. They make it hard to build a cube because they require so many support slots, and they often lead to very specific card selections and determine your drafting choices for you, rather than allowing for interesting decision-making, which reduces the re-playability of the cube as a whole. One of my cubes is a silver border Un-cube. Unstable had a couple parasitic mechanics in Host/Augment and Contraptions, which meant I had to run a high number of each to make it work, even the ones that I don't think are good. Augment cards are useless without enough Hosts, and you need to pick both Contraptions and the things that assemble them. It's fun and crazy at first, but after three drafts in a row, I was getting sick of it and had to tell my group that we weren't using that cube for a while.

    That doesn't mean you should never build a cube with parasitic mechanics; it just means that you need to recognize them for what they are and accept the downsides and limitations.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on Volrath, the Shapestealer (Let's Brew!)
    I always wanted to attack with Nacatl War-Pride and, with the trigger on the stack, cast Cytoshape to make it anything else with a crazy ETB so all the tokens would be that. Now I have to try that with Volrath.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on [C19] Marisi, Breaker of the Coil
    LOVE the ability. Disrupt Decorum is so much fun, and this is repeatable. Would have been totally busted with blue (all the unblockable creatures), but I imagine flyers and trample will do the trick, maybe some theft for red. I'm going to have to brew something up with this.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [C19] Sheldon Menery previews - commander’s insignia + 3 reprints
    I've been trying to get more Shamanic Revelations, even just bought one a couple days ago. It's not worth a whole bunch, but I'm actually happy to see it reprinted.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on c19 - aka what kind of busted treats are we getting this time?
    Definitely not looking too promising. On the other hand, I've added so many new cards in the last six months that maybe slowing down is a good thing.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [C19] Dockside Extortionist
    Absolutely love this design - it scales with your opponents. If you get a huge boost, they only have themselves to blame
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    What are some staple uncommons (or rares I suppose)? I dropped Pauper rarity for my cube, now I just play whatever.

    What are some cards like Lightning Helix and Control Magic that are kind of "vanilla" staple uncommons?
    Check out the Average MTGSalvation Peasant Cube. If you filter the results by "24 - 27 Lists" or even "21 - 23 Lists," you'll get some pretty standard staples. Link here: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/123651. It hasn't been updated in about nine months, but I believe there will be a new one by the end of the year.
    Here's a quick list of some I'd consider staples:
    Cloudgoat Ranger
    Ghostly Prison
    Mother of Runes
    Swords to Plowshares
    Control Magic
    Whirler Rogue
    Blood Artist
    Cast Down
    Go for the Throat
    Shriekmaw
    Vampire Nighthawk
    Guttersnipe
    Young Pyromancer
    Flametongue Kavu
    Abrade
    Eternal Witness
    Rigdescale Tusker
    Pelakka Wurm
    Lingering Souls
    Tri-lands
    I'd put some others that I consider staples, but apparently they aren't played by everyone for power reasons.

    Also, Guild slots are very subjective. What I consider a staple, others may not be running, and they may think I'm crazy for not choosing their favorites.

    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
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