That goes without saying, people are expected to share information if felonies are commited or otherwise innocent people are at harm's risk.
My pondering is more general. For people who have committed no felonies (like ripping people in trades or plotting malicious internet attacks), is there any reasonable expectation that the info they wish to maintain private (like, say other sites registration emails) should not be expected to asked for to third parties by this site's staff?
Is that a reasonable expectation?
If you find that these leaks over a restricted subforum of a magic cards website are a felony or a crime, then you need to contact the proper authorities and let them do their own investigation.
Again, the staff of MTGS is not the Internet Police. You have no moral rights to take matters into your hands and go into an internet vigilantism operation.
And then you wonder why people are angry at you guys and accuse you of being corrupt. You have the nerve (see I can use italics too) of asking for third people to share confidential information of users you suspect of being related to the leaks, and when confronted to this immoral behavior you guys even come with BS like "yes but market street rippers". Whats the next tangent? Invoking Internet sexual predators as an excuse to spy people?
Yeah, I really just can't get myself worked up over this. The staff have a huge issue and this can help them solve it. Besides, what information of mine could they possibly get? My real name? My old address? Off-site contacts? The staff already has access to those things. What personal information should I be upset that they could get?
The moment staff piles up a lot of this information for no reason and/or publicizes this information, then there is cause to get upset.
In this case, these are perfectly reasonable requests considering how damaging these leaks are, and how important it is to stop them, and it's not like the information requested was excessive in any way. And you can be sure that as long unless someone commits a Market Street-related violation, personal information will absolutely not be publicized.
Nope.jpg
You guys should understand one thing: For starters you are not the internet police, and you have no rights to ask for the disclosure of private information stored offsite (of MTGS). As Belgareth said, there are laws that disallow this in many countries, but you shouldn't even need to reach this sort of debate once you arrive at the juncture where you realize that what you are doing is plainly immoral. Period. End of story. We wrap our stuff and go home.
No really, after lying to the userbase (see ExpiredRascals OP in the leak thread vs. the later clarification by Nai) we now have the snooping/spying to the userbase?
That goes without saying, people are expected to share information if felonies are commited or otherwise innocent people are at harm's risk.
My pondering is more general. For people who have commited no felonies (like ripping people in trades or plotting malicious internet attacks), is there any reasonable expectation that the info they wish to maintain private (like, say other sites registration emails) should not be expected to asked for to third parties by this site's staff?
I get it that the question about who got the raw deal as a consequence of these "misunderstandings" is somewhat taboo. Fair enough.
Another question then: You guys have made it pretty clear that leaks and the diffusion of privileged information is something that causes damage to the community, besides the fact that it is morally reprehensible.
Taking this into account, we can therefore assume that the privacy of current and past members of MTGSalvation is something very important for you guys. For example, you would never dream of going around the Internet, asking the staff of other websites to disclose private information about members of these sites who also happen to be members of MTGS.
I mean you guys would never do something like this, would you?
Yeah, I love it that everytime someone mentions the REAL consequences of these "misunderstandings" (bannings, eradication of a community), we suddenly start hearing crickets chirping ITT
Having "cleared" all these "misunderstandings" is all cool and swell, but at the end of the day, it seems we are left with a plethora of regular members with 5000+ posts -some of which ex-moderators and globals- which are, at this exact time, banned from the forum.
We also have a subforum, which was thriving before you guys messed with it, which is now effectively dead.
But I'm sure this is all a misunderstanding too...
And I suppose these wrongs won't be undone because that would mean the staff actually had to admit to doing something wrong :rolleyes:.
"We didnt do anything wrong, this is all a misunderstanding!"
2. The admins lack database access. We aren't really able to do anything towards these ends until we next see Hannes.
(emphasis mine)
This means never in practical terms then.
EDIT: Actually this has not been brought up yet as regarding the sale to Curse, but wouldn't it have been expectable (in a normal setting, lets forget this is MTGS for a minute) for the owner to stop by ITT/The Curse sale thread for like a minute or two and drop a line?
Having "cleared" all these "misunderstandings" is all cool and swell, but at the end of the day, it seems we are left with a plethora of regular members with 5000+ posts -some of which ex-moderators and globals- which are, at this exact time, banned from the forum.
We also have a subforum, which was thriving before you guys messed with it, which is now effectively dead.
But I'm sure this is all a misunderstanding too...
Glimyrpost, tbh the stalin methaphor is from Fahey.
Also it could be strongly argued that getting rid of these bad apples on staff is beneficial to the site.
And no I don't mean the staff who are responsible for the leaks, since this is likely a defensive reaction from being forced to witness the lies and deceit of some staff members behind closed doors, from the lower to higher ranks, and being officially bound by a CoC which is in practice nothing more than a gag order.
No no, it would be equivalent to the staff banning everyone who's ever posted in a CI thread regarding the Curse deal, as well as all gutter members.
The staff hasn't banned anyone for having knowledge, only for attempting to spread knowledge (however misguided these bannings were too).
OK the staff is only half-Stalin I guess I can settle for this.
He also actually carried it out, and went about systematically killing (banning?) anyone who knew about the fact that he was killing anyone who knew about said set of actions.
So then this is akin to the staff banning everyone who was sourced info about the sale to Curse right?
So, the OP, from an administrator of MTGS (ExpiredRascals) is a straight-up deception.
How low have we fallen...
How hard was it for the staff to simply state that Curse had asked them to do something unethical, but that the staff fought against it?
As of now, it seems that Nai has been the only staff member who had the honesty to explain the situation in an upfront manner. This actually paints him in a quite positive light.
Not so much for ExpiredRascals. Why did you chose to behave so unethically and straight-up LIE to the userbase you've wowed to serve? Where is your decency?
If your boss (Curse) ask you to do something amoral and unethical, you have always the choice to refuse, to the point of resigning if needed.
In any case Nai, thank you for being one of the only honest staff members ITT.
As I pointed out before:
If you find that these leaks over a restricted subforum of a magic cards website are a felony or a crime, then you need to contact the proper authorities and let them do their own investigation.
Again, the staff of MTGS is not the Internet Police. You have no moral rights to take matters into your hands and go into an internet vigilantism operation.
And then you wonder why people are angry at you guys and accuse you of being corrupt. You have the nerve (see I can use italics too) of asking for third people to share confidential information of users you suspect of being related to the leaks, and when confronted to this immoral behavior you guys even come with BS like "yes but market street rippers". Whats the next tangent? Invoking Internet sexual predators as an excuse to spy people?
Nope.jpg
You guys should understand one thing: For starters you are not the internet police, and you have no rights to ask for the disclosure of private information stored offsite (of MTGS). As Belgareth said, there are laws that disallow this in many countries, but you shouldn't even need to reach this sort of debate once you arrive at the juncture where you realize that what you are doing is plainly immoral. Period. End of story. We wrap our stuff and go home.
No really, after lying to the userbase (see ExpiredRascals OP in the leak thread vs. the later clarification by Nai) we now have the snooping/spying to the userbase?
Bravo.
My pondering is more general. For people who have commited no felonies (like ripping people in trades or plotting malicious internet attacks), is there any reasonable expectation that the info they wish to maintain private (like, say other sites registration emails) should not be expected to asked for to third parties by this site's staff?
Is that a reasonable expectation?
Another question then: You guys have made it pretty clear that leaks and the diffusion of privileged information is something that causes damage to the community, besides the fact that it is morally reprehensible.
Taking this into account, we can therefore assume that the privacy of current and past members of MTGSalvation is something very important for you guys. For example, you would never dream of going around the Internet, asking the staff of other websites to disclose private information about members of these sites who also happen to be members of MTGS.
I mean you guys would never do something like this, would you?
And I suppose these wrongs won't be undone because that would mean the staff actually had to admit to doing something wrong :rolleyes:.
"We didnt do anything wrong, this is all a misunderstanding!"
This means never in practical terms then.
EDIT: Actually this has not been brought up yet as regarding the sale to Curse, but wouldn't it have been expectable (in a normal setting, lets forget this is MTGS for a minute) for the owner to stop by ITT/The Curse sale thread for like a minute or two and drop a line?
No?
Having "cleared" all these "misunderstandings" is all cool and swell, but at the end of the day, it seems we are left with a plethora of regular members with 5000+ posts -some of which ex-moderators and globals- which are, at this exact time, banned from the forum.
We also have a subforum, which was thriving before you guys messed with it, which is now effectively dead.
But I'm sure this is all a misunderstanding too...
Also it could be strongly argued that getting rid of these bad apples on staff is beneficial to the site.
And no I don't mean the staff who are responsible for the leaks, since this is likely a defensive reaction from being forced to witness the lies and deceit of some staff members behind closed doors, from the lower to higher ranks, and being officially bound by a CoC which is in practice nothing more than a gag order.
Seems about right to me.
this exactly, some people really need to reevaluate their lives
How low have we fallen...
How hard was it for the staff to simply state that Curse had asked them to do something unethical, but that the staff fought against it?
As of now, it seems that Nai has been the only staff member who had the honesty to explain the situation in an upfront manner. This actually paints him in a quite positive light.
Not so much for ExpiredRascals. Why did you chose to behave so unethically and straight-up LIE to the userbase you've wowed to serve? Where is your decency?
If your boss (Curse) ask you to do something amoral and unethical, you have always the choice to refuse, to the point of resigning if needed.
In any case Nai, thank you for being one of the only honest staff members ITT.