Hello, I have been checking out the forum, and found good ideas from you guys. I also have been playing with Tezzeret for quite some time. In modern I have tried mono U, UW, UR, RUG, UB AoB, UW shackles, and I have been having a lot of fun with fair success with UB seeker. The deck obviously has a bad early game as you all know and side boarding helps as in with most of the decks listed in thread. Feel free to tell me something I'm missing but I really enjoy the deck and regularly see myself going 3-1 4-0 during weekday 4 rounders at local shops. Thopter Foundry is actually amazing too and I highly enjoy it with bridge, crucible, and darksteel.
Okay I went to FNM last night and made top 8. I went 3-1-1 and then lost top 8 to mardu midrange. My loss in swiss was also to a different mardu player. I was able to take game 1 off of both of them if that makes any difference. I decided to not go with any ordeals due to lack of cards and in testing didn't feel right. Here is the list I ran, with some alterations due to lack of card availability.
In order of rounds my record was 2-1 vs mardu midrange, 2-0 vs esper control, 1-2 mardu midrange, 2-0 jeskai control, 1-2 mardu midrange, draw (but lost 1-2 for funnies) rg monsters, 1-2 mardu midrange top 8.
Stubborn Denial although was only ferocious 1/5 times was still good. Given not a 4 of but still warrants a slot. [card]Rouse the Mob[card] was a kind of last minute realization and the majority of the time was only cast for a single red. I did get to cast with strive and trample past tokens/blockers etc. The deck was super fun, fast, cheap, and majority 1 drops was insanely good to manage mana and kill. It was a fun all in strategy.
Right on, thank you! I'm just putting my idea out there and the more eyes that see it the better for the deck. I will have FNM data on it, and it will have some number of hammerhand lugger. I tested tactics a little and outside of satisfying heroic or prowess its not as aggro supportive as i thought...
I explain my ordeal choice in the original post as well as what I'm trying to accomplish with the deck. It is faster than UW heroic, but given that it is a weaker long game strategy. I also address stubborn denial later on. How often does a player tap out to catch up vs an aggro deck? Stubborn denial will be good early and when my creatures are large enough it will be a 1 mana negate. I never said I'd be hitting ferocious 100% of the time. Thanks for your input, but I'm not switching to UW heroic.
I mean abuse in the sense of making use of a 1 mana negate. I get to pressure fast and force them to tap out to keep up making it live, and with heroic creatures and guys growing makes ferocious real. I don't mean the card itself is good. It's just really good when you're putting early pressure on, and your creatures grow later.
"Less Triton Tactics. More Hammerhand." This is an instant combat trick that triggers 2 creatures and locks down opposing creatures for the next turn. Hammerhand is a sorcery speed trick that lets a creature attack faster. I'm a fan of combat tricks and the pseudo removal of tapping a creature is pretty good.
Ever since I saw Stubborn Denial, I have wanted to play it. I recently found a solid build to abuse it early and into the late game. I will post the list and then talk about the card selections.
I was watching SCG coverage and saw someone use titan's strength on their creature and it clicked. That interaction satisfies ferocity on stubborn denial. All of these cards are supposed to be played fast and hit hard. It plays very similar to mono red styles and a faster (but smaller) uw heroic deck. I'm not quite sure what ordeal I want, but I know I want them for sage of hours. Its really just what you want your ordeal to do. Do you want it to give you a little reach? Or do you want it to give you a little gas to keep up pressure? Its up to you really, and I find myself swapping them often just for fun. Being able to trigger heroic and attack for a second counter has been proven powerful already. With all of the scry and filter of jeskai elder you should be able to keep the pressure on. As always any honest feedback is welcome and thanks for looking at my deck.
I agree with you on all of the life loss factors. I do however like the idea of counters. My buddy was telling me that Duskmantle is not where you want to be in Standard right now. I have to agree with him and I'm either going to go for Pack Rat or make room for 4 Dreg Manglers. The best place to start would be the Thoughtseize/Pain Seers.
Okay, so I saw a ton of R/W burn, and B/W midrange. So what I want to do is have game vs both of those while still being able to wreck control. Here is what I have come up with so far.
Please let me know any thoughts. Positive or negative I don't care. Just as long as you have something smart to say it can only make the deck viable or scratch it.
I have been using crystal ball, and voltaic key. Its a kind of Tezz build that is really fun to play. I haven't played it enough to tell if its competitive or not yet. But so far its fun and promising.
I agree with Oliver about the lantern. The 2 izzet charms are good but you are very heavy on 4 drops. Maybe drop the helix for the full set of turn/burn.
Ok after even more testing it is either one of three things. I am the worst player ever. Possible but unlikely. I am hitting nothing but god hand aggro decks. Also possible. Or three this deck simply can't deal with a serious aggro deck. Even in an ideal scenario here is what happens. I drop a land and pass. He drop a cackler or some other one drop. I drop another land and pass. He does the emissary mauler deal and cracks me for 6. My turn I wipe the board with a rolling tremblor. His turn he drops a boros. I respond by spearing it and taking three. I drop a land and do something like a burning vengeance or something. His turn 4 boom hellrider. Taking 4. Down to about 8. Kill the rider. Next turn i drop a spell i can cast from the GY or even a critter. His next turn either another reckoner or another rider or a ghor clan and he kills my critter. Maybe he's top decking like crazy on me or this deck simply can't handle a serious R/X aggro deck.
What I think this deck really needs is to add 4 of the nivix cyclops. Spear proof and gets stronger with some spells. This deck needs a meat shield. Guttersnipe and electromancer are great if I can keep em out but with only 2 toughness that's tough and there are no other targets for removal.
Okay those hands are more of a tap out style of red. Try boarding in your syncopates. It sounds like they are tapping out or coming close, so you should be able to hit those big cards with it. That specific scenario you gave is actually close to a perfect aggro hand. I honestly don't have a huge problem with heavy aggro decks. There was a reason most of my original board was geared toward control decks (they were the biggest problem). Sometimes you need to go low on life so you can point your burn at their face for the kill. Do your math and dont freak out and pull the trigger because you are losing life.
The issue with those aggro decks is they simply have more creatures than I have removal in the early game. Say they pop a noble or cackler turn one then a emmisary followed by mauler or boar turn 2. They pop another boar or reckoner followed by a hellrider turn 4. Simply to fast for this deck to handle unless I get a god draw unless I am missing something.
Honestly you need to weigh your threats. I would let a lot of creatures live. Turn 1 cackler is a 10 turn clock. That is more than enough time to kill. Don't waste your burn. Burning Vengeance also helps lock down their small guys past turn 4. If they swarm the board mizzium mortars is a fantastic card, and there is a reason there are 4.
Love the concept of this deck. I have been testing it on MTGO with decent success. Crushed some Jund midrange and esper control. Did have major problems with r/x speed decks. Thinking some rolling tremblor in the SB would help there.
You really shouldn't be having trouble with aggro decks at all. Post board though, I can agree with running some other form of removal. I liked boarding out the faithless looting vs aggro. turn/burn would be great in my opinion
Also think twice is insane with almost all of your permanents. It triggers gutter twice, gets a burning vengeance activation, and electromancer makes it amazing. Though scour doesn't have the synergy I was looking for. If I want cards in the yard looting does that perfectly. Plus I hated milling away my finishers.
2 trinket mage
spells
4 thirst for knowledge
4 thoughtseize
3 spell snare
4 mana leak
planeswalkers
3 tezzeret the seeker
artifacts
1 engineered explosives
1 chalice of the void
1 aether spell bomb
1 executioner's capsule
2 mox opal
1 pithing needle
1 nihil spellbomb
4 thopter foundry
3 ensnaring bridge
1 crucible of worlds
4 darkslick shores
4 polluted delta
4 darksteel citadel
1 academy ruins
1 ghost quarter
1 watery grave
1 creeping tar pit
5 island
3 swamp
1 relic of progenitus
2 spellskite
2 disfigure
1 dismember
1 far/away
2 consume the meek
4 spreading seas
2 spell pierce
4 akroan crusader
4 satyr hoplite
4 jeskai elder
4 monastery swiftspear
4 sage of hours
spells
4 titan's strength
4 rouse the mob
2 stubborn denial
3 triton tactics
4 coordinated assault
4 lightning strike
4 shivan reef
2 mana confluence
3 temple of epiphany
2 swiftwater cliffs
2 island
6 mountain
1 triton tactics
4 magma jet
2 aqueous form
2 annul
1 nullify
3 hammerhand
1 distainful stroke
1 negate
In order of rounds my record was 2-1 vs mardu midrange, 2-0 vs esper control, 1-2 mardu midrange, 2-0 jeskai control, 1-2 mardu midrange, draw (but lost 1-2 for funnies) rg monsters, 1-2 mardu midrange top 8.
Stubborn Denial although was only ferocious 1/5 times was still good. Given not a 4 of but still warrants a slot. [card]Rouse the Mob[card] was a kind of last minute realization and the majority of the time was only cast for a single red. I did get to cast with strive and trample past tokens/blockers etc. The deck was super fun, fast, cheap, and majority 1 drops was insanely good to manage mana and kill. It was a fun all in strategy.
"Less Triton Tactics. More Hammerhand." This is an instant combat trick that triggers 2 creatures and locks down opposing creatures for the next turn. Hammerhand is a sorcery speed trick that lets a creature attack faster. I'm a fan of combat tricks and the pseudo removal of tapping a creature is pretty good.
4 akroan crusader
4 satyr hoplite
4 sage of hours
4 monastery swiftspear
4 jeskai elder
spells
4 coordinated assault
2 retraction helix
2 triton tactics
4 titan's strength
4 stubborn denial
4 ordeal of purphoros
4 shivan reef
4 mana confluence
4 temple of epiphany
5 mountain
2 island
1 swiftwater cliffs
2 annul
2 disdainful stroke
1 nullify
4 ordeal of thassa
2 lightning strike
3 scouring sands
1 retraction helix
I was watching SCG coverage and saw someone use titan's strength on their creature and it clicked. That interaction satisfies ferocity on stubborn denial. All of these cards are supposed to be played fast and hit hard. It plays very similar to mono red styles and a faster (but smaller) uw heroic deck. I'm not quite sure what ordeal I want, but I know I want them for sage of hours. Its really just what you want your ordeal to do. Do you want it to give you a little reach? Or do you want it to give you a little gas to keep up pressure? Its up to you really, and I find myself swapping them often just for fun. Being able to trigger heroic and attack for a second counter has been proven powerful already. With all of the scry and filter of jeskai elder you should be able to keep the pressure on. As always any honest feedback is welcome and thanks for looking at my deck.
4 Pain Seer
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Duskmantle Seer
spells
3 Abrupt decay
4 Thoughtseize
1 Golgari Charm
3 Simic Charm
2 Quicken
2 Cremate
2 Devour Flesh
1 Far // Away
4 Psychic Strike
4 Watery Grave
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Breeding Pool
4 Overgrown Tomb
1 Forest
4 Swamp
1 Island
3 Essence Scatter
3 Negate
1 Golgari Charm
2 Pithing Needle
2 Duress
2 Dimir Charm
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Ultimate Price
Please let me know any thoughts. Positive or negative I don't care. Just as long as you have something smart to say it can only make the deck viable or scratch it.
4 gyre sage
4 deathrite shaman
4 dreg mangler
4 lotleth troll
2 korozda guildmage
3 scavenging ooze
1 corpsejack menace
3 abrupt decay
2 putrefy
2 golgari charm
4 golgari guildgate
4 overgrown tomb
6 swamp
9 forest
2 doom blade
3 mind rot
2 underworld connections
1 corpsejack menace
1 golgari charm
1 vraska, the unseen
3 duress
2 savage summoning
Okay those hands are more of a tap out style of red. Try boarding in your syncopates. It sounds like they are tapping out or coming close, so you should be able to hit those big cards with it. That specific scenario you gave is actually close to a perfect aggro hand. I honestly don't have a huge problem with heavy aggro decks. There was a reason most of my original board was geared toward control decks (they were the biggest problem). Sometimes you need to go low on life so you can point your burn at their face for the kill. Do your math and dont freak out and pull the trigger because you are losing life.
Honestly you need to weigh your threats. I would let a lot of creatures live. Turn 1 cackler is a 10 turn clock. That is more than enough time to kill. Don't waste your burn. Burning Vengeance also helps lock down their small guys past turn 4. If they swarm the board mizzium mortars is a fantastic card, and there is a reason there are 4.
You really shouldn't be having trouble with aggro decks at all. Post board though, I can agree with running some other form of removal. I liked boarding out the faithless looting vs aggro. turn/burn would be great in my opinion
Also think twice is insane with almost all of your permanents. It triggers gutter twice, gets a burning vengeance activation, and electromancer makes it amazing. Though scour doesn't have the synergy I was looking for. If I want cards in the yard looting does that perfectly. Plus I hated milling away my finishers.