MTG Salvation

Quote from Ravaillac

I think this is the heart of the matter. I, too, like to play decks that gather momentum like a snowball heading downhill. My experience is that you need a creature screen of about 15 or so solid creatures so you don't look "open" to "free smacks."

Quote from Cz »

Your opponents play creatures on some combination of turns 2-5. They see that you're open and they swing at you. How does this deck not roll over and die unless it nut draws a Wheel + E.Field?

I think you guys play in similar metas that are not the same as mine. I predominantly play online or with a smaller group of people in person. When I play online, people do not know that I'm playing a combo deck so they target the current strongest player. That's the general idea of the online multiplayer meta: that you attack the player in the lead. Free smacks aren't really a thing, as the theory behind it is, "Why would I attack the guy who controls Wild Research, when I can attack the guy who controls Sphinx of Jwar Isle?

Creatures are a very easy to deal with threat in magic, enchantments attack my meta from a different angle and I've found them to be very enjoyable because of that.

Both of you seem to like playing big creatures that have spell effects on them. I like playing bigger spell effects on different card types because less people are prepared for them. Creatures are the easiest card type to dispatch and in multiplayer there is no shortage of creature removal. Why should I waste my time playing Damnation when one of my opponents is going to Wrath of God on his turn anyway? I want to play a deck that furthers my game plan only and make my opponents spend their resources defending against each other to the point that when I'm ready to win the game there's nothing they can do about it.

Quote from Cz

Brainstorm is significantly weaker than Ponder or Preordain in decks without a critical mass of cheap shuffle effects. I think that it's a horrible card in your deck and were it handed to me I would racing to replace it with something else.

I'm going to disagree here, this deck has 11 shuffle effects which I think is adequate enough to run Brainstorm.

The rest of my response is a no-fluff "I hate hate your deck and here's why" so brace yourself for that....

I know that your philosophy in Magic is to always play the biggest bombs and the cards that do the most. I play Magic differently, I play decks that play bombs and draw a million cards and are active in the game, but I also play decks that take longer to set up, stay on the sidelines and eventually win. These decks don't drive on the highway like yours do, these decks drive on the access road beside the highway, and both roads lead to the same destination.

I'm happy to play a deck that unassumingly furthers its game plan while being able to defend itself and eventually win. I get bored with "Cabal Coffers for a million: Exsanguinate." So with that in mind I make a few decks here and there that take a different route to the win.

If they ignore you they 100% lose. If they pressure you then you lose (probably) 90% of the time. How can they win? How can they have a long, fun game of Magic against your deck?

I think that you just have an issue with combo decks in general. I think your philosophy is to bring the biggest gun to the knife show every turn. Combo decks set up a combo and win, that's it. If they fail to do so then they lose. I think the fun in playing combo is timing, knowing when to preserve your removal spell, or when to tutor for a combo piece, or when to lock out the game. Obviously if I tutor out my combo in the first 4 turns, the game is not going to be fun. Combo is all about letting everyone beat each other up until the win is possible for you, and then dropping the lockout.

Anyway, that's the philosophy behind my deck and I know you don't agree with it. You can find solace in the fact that you live in Winnipeg and that's 2223km from this deck.

I'm currently testing a RWU deck built around Wild Research and Walkers. Check that out here: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=506515

Might give you some ideas.

Quote from Ravaillac

Wild research RWU is my favorite deck and I highly encourage you to play it. It is ridiculously powerful and involves fun play choices. You've already mentioned the main interactions, but while you may wish to avoid Sterling Grove, 2 copies of Privileged Position are very nice to have. Think about how many decklists you've seen posted on these forums that simple have no cards in their decks to deal with these threats (almost all of them!). On the other hand, Wild Research gives you an answer to almost everything with swords to plowshares, vindicate, recoil, counterspell, and disenchant.

In addition, if you decide to use hymn of invincibility with yawgmoth's bargain, you'll draw out your entire deck in 1 round. Killing people with a large repeatable Volcanic Geyser or a 50+/50+ demon token from promise of power is also effective.

Here is the decklist that I used most recently. Playing the deck effectively requires simply surviving the early rounds until you become "inkillable," which is why I've included Forbidding Watchtower, Maze of Ith, and Serendib Sorceror as well as a plethora (!) of other creatures which serve as a defensive screen. Eventually you'll wipe the board (of everyone else but you), most likely with multiple uses of Ethersworn Adjudicator.

Truthfully, the cards you most want to keep in play are Wheel of Sun and Moon (because you do not want to have resources in the graveyard, where they are inaccessible and vulnerable to being removed from the game) and Magus of the Future, one of the most ridiculous draw engines ever invented.

We don't play with proxy cards so the majority of that deck is unaffordable. Also it's a little offbeat from what I'm trying to accomplish which is a pillowfort-esque deck that wins through Planeswalkers and Celestial Colonnade.

Made a couple of changes in OP.

Cut a Jace for Tamiyo, because she rocks.
Cut a Brainstorm for a Counterspell, tutorable via Wild Research. Only to be used in emergencies. Will go into library with Wheel of Sun and Moon out.

Out of two games tested I won both, so things are looking positive!

Will start testing the manabase for more affordable alternatives.

Quote from varal

I don't want to tell you to spend money to buy cards but Strip Mine is sold $3 by StarCityGame and probably even cheaper elsewhere. You also had 12 dual lands so I thought maybe you maxed out on duals and filled with fetchland even if it's usually better to play a fetch to fetchable ratio closer to 45-50%. Just use what you have, it's not worth it to spend $100 just to have better Brainstorm.

Fair enough, I could always use Evolving Wilds/Terramorphic Expanse and more basics. It is casual after all. I never even knew that Strip Mine was in 4th Ed. It's pretty abusive though, so if I do run it, it'll be limited to one copy.

Maybe you should consider Rest in Peace to go with Energy Flux instead of the wheels.

Rest in Peace doesn't work with Wild Research though. Wheel of Sun and Moon let's me tutor for a card with Wild, and if it's discarded it goes into my library instead of my GY.

If you're interested, I have a White/Red Enchantment deck I'm building. It's build upon a totally different core of cards (Started as a Weenie White but I ended up cutting every creatures.) but maybe it can give you ideas.

Post the list, I'd love to see your take on it.

Also Aura Fracture is awesome in the mirror or against Aura Creatures decks.

That card demands Life from the Loam or Crucible of Worlds. Neither are directions I want to go with this deck, or dollars I want to spend yet.

Fourth Edition Strip Mine is $3 low, $4 average. The version you were looking at was the foil From the Vault version. So, you could obtain a playset for about $12-15 if you were really wanting to use them, but since you're doing casual restricted I don't think more than 1 copy would really fly anyway.

Anyway, just wanted to let you know, I can completely understand not using Strip Mine in a casual settings. Some people rage hard over it.

Yeah that's a bit of my reasoning, I also didn't realize the card was printed in 4th Ed. $3 might be too good of a deal to pass up though...

Quote from Cz

I don't get why Temple of the False God is in there. It's a colorless do-nothing land for the vast majority of the game and even when it activates it's not as though you have anything that you can actually ramp out with it. Your spells all cost 5 or less mana after all. I mean sure, it kinda synergizes with draw spells but that seems pretty loose to me lol.

I was viewing this deck as a grindy control deck that would love a land that taps for 2. You're right about not having anything to ramp out with it though. Probably best off trading them in for two Celestial Colonnades or something similar.

Quote from varal »

I didn't see any creatures in your deck, why not play Humility, it's the ultimate hide behind Enchantment unless you want to play Solitary Confinement or crazy Legends enchantments.

Humility is a headache in multiplayer. Sure it's awesome in the deck, but I play casual kitchen table multiplayer: layer rules are no fun.

I personnally like enchantment toolbox and Enlightened Tutor isn't restricted anymore so why not up the count to 4. I would also up Serra's Sanctum count to 2.

I think by adding Wild Research I'll have the toolbox tutor role filled. Enlightened while good, is also $10 a piece.

I don't like Sphere of The Sun. I prefer the signets, the talismans or Coldsteel Heart.

The unfortunate thing about the signets and talismans is that they only tap for two of my colours, and Coldsteel only one. I like the fact that Sphere taps for all colours, and can be recharged with Proliferate.

Putting aside that Brainstorm is restricted or Sol Ring is banned. I would add more fetchlands to your deck and probably a few basic lands but this is really metagame dependent.

We don't play either Legacy or Vintage, it's more of a "No Power 9 and casual restricted list." So cards like Sol Ring are restricted to 1 copy, while Brainstorm can be run in multiples because it's not really "unfair." As for more fetches, I would, but money is an issue and I think there are enough shuffle effects with the current fetches + Wild Research.

Why Tectonic Edge over Strip Mine?

I own Tec Edge and Strip Mine costs $20. The other option is Ghost Quarter over Tec.

I would also consider Mystic Remora with or in addition to Rhystic Study.

I'll consider that.

I'm also wondering if red is really necessary. If you cut red you could play more basics and maybe Land Tax with Solitary Confinement.

I'm running red for Wild Research, which isn't in the original decklist but the updated one. Also Ajani Vengeant is boss.

Why no counterspells to protect yourself from enchantment sweepers or answers to your planeswalkers. If you really want enchantment Lilting Refrain, Dovescape or Ice Cave and few rainbow lands could do it.

I like Lilting Refrain because it synergizes with Proliferate.
I don't like Dovescape unless I build a deck around it specifically.
Ice Cave can seriously backfire on me, but is a very chaotic multiplayer card -- could be fun to play with.

It's been mentionned before but Replenish even if expensive is a real treat against enchantment removal.

It's also been mentioned that Replenish costs $20.

Updated decklist in OP.

Quote from Maserati

Wild research is stronger than you might suppose and combined with wheel of sun and moon it can make for quite some dominating board presence. I can share you my take on it though it's 5 colored.

Maybe you can get some ideas from it. I would make space for one oblivion Ring or detention sphere in your list though. Its never really useless and can save you a lot of times.

I like the idea of Detention Sphere, and might take out the Honden package for them. More defense is always better. I don't think that decklist is going in the right direction though as its focus is not on Enchantments but Madness and the discard part of Wild Research.

Quote from RabidVacin »

If you add Wild Research and Wheel of Sun and Moon, make sure to add a singleton of Energy Field.

I like it, will do!

Quote from ExImperialDragon »

Wild Research is also really great with Replenish, if that's not out of budget.

Replenish is a little out of budget. The original duals are in there for two reasons a) They're perfect for playtesting without worrying about the manabase just yet and b) I own some of them.

I saw Wild Research, and I love it, but I need something to mitigate the damage of discarding at random. I was thinking Wheel of Sun and Moon?

Would you cut the numbers of Rhystic Study and Greater Auramancy for it?

-3 Greater Auramancy
-1 Rhystic Study
+2 Wild Research
+2 Wheel of Sun and Moon

Like so?

Here is an as-of-yet untested idea for a deck. Hide behind annoying enchantments while you ramp up your planeswalkers. Proliferate helps speed this up and keep Sphere of the Suns charged. Oh, by the way, Aegis of Honor can redirect damage that would be redirected to your planeswalkers, so go ahead Red player, dump all your mana into an Earthquake.

I want to avoid green, even though it gives me access to Sterling Grove.

Quote from Lithl

Yes. There would be two replacement effects involved (redirecting the damage from you to Ajani, and redirecting the damage from you to your opponent). As the affected player, you get to choose in what order the replacement effects work. If the Aegis applies first, the other replacement effect can't occur, since Bolt is no longer dealing damage to you.

Excellent news! Thank you.

If I control Ajani Vengeant and Aegis of Honor, and my opponent casts Lightning Bolt targeting me. Can Aegis redirect it, even though my opponent is planning to deal the damage to Ajani?

So I want to build a 5 Colour deck, one that keeps itself alive for awhile and then drops either Bringer of the Blue Dawn or Bringer of the Black Dawn, or both and then grind out the win by tutoring answers all day long. The main issue is, what are the best spells of each colour I can search out once I get a Bringer in play?

Here's the shell:



The landbase is very, very unrealistic but is there for testing purposes.

There's also Simic Guildmage, which requires less work than Kitsune Mystic, but is harder on the manabase and weaker in that it can only switch between creatures of the same controller.

Another worth mentioning is Crown of the Ages, which is more resilient than a creature, but can only be used once a turn (unless you have shenanigans).

A turn one Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur is pretty brutal, or Iona, Shield of Emeria.