If I ran it today, I'd replace a Sphinx and either a powder keg or a cryptic command with two copies of Jace TMS. Also not entirely sure about the sideboard, haven't been playing enough Legacy recently to know how I want to hate. Dismember would also be a good idea, although perhaps from the board.
7 effective copies of Powder Keg means you can mull into a keg effect every game.
Sorry to hear that. Maybe you need more speed? Trample over emrakul?
Deathtouching tramplers need assign only one damage per blocker. Virulent Swipe is the best option for this - its four power over two turns for one mana, plus deathtouch, which can be highly relevant. If your dudes come out fast enough, you can force him to block an infect with emrakul, whereupon you virulent swipe it and kill emrakul.
okay i hate to waste space but at this point i am some what confused..... i've tried to understand but i can only figure out the nightmare effect but not the way to play the deck.
i hope i'm not wasting space but would someone explain how this deck would last in legacy? i'm seeing problems in how fast the deck is. i would like to know how you would play this hand for optimal effect with the next 3 card being
if someone could help me i'd greatly appreciate it. if not sorry for wasting space. :\
Assuming you are on the play, the obvious move is T1 swamp + Carrion Feeder (you could drop the TE, but with no abuse its not really worthwhile. I'd cast the feeder first for sure if opponent was playing blue, since you are more likely to land the TE for the win after the discard spells).
Followup with a turn 2 Hymn, draw the fleshbag. T3 you draw the fiend, cast it, and in response to the ETB trigger sacrifice it to the carrion feeder. T4 fleshbag if they have any creatures out, otherwise buried alive for Krovikan Horror(s) + other useful dudes. Twisted Abomination would be a good choice to get the rest of the needed land drops.
If anyone can come up with a way to beat jace in monoblack, really I'll be so happy. I want a 4cmc black walker so bad, I'll be maindecking 3 instantly.
Pithing Needle shuts down JTMS, among other things. Discard can force one down through answers unless your opponent has a completely BS hand (JTMS with double force of will backup, etc)
Drain Life will also kill a JTMS with a large enough X. Profane Command would actually be a better choice, though, since its better at killing creatures and gets some bonus action. Suffer the Past is conditionally better at killing JTMS at one less mana, and at instant speed (which is highly relevant vs control).
EOT Corpse Dance for Molten-Tail Masticore would also do the trick (pay 4 and exile a creature card in response to the sacrifice trigger, aim for the dome and redirect to JTMS). Murderous Redcap or Triskelion are perhaps better options (although at that point, Corpse Dance for Terastodon).
Soul Spike if getting three-for-one'd isn't as bad as letting JTMS live.
do someone believe rachet bomb solves survival problem ??? yes bomb is good.
If survival touches the field, muc has lost most of time. no matter if we destroy it in 2 turns.
(if the opponent can play magic).
I think MUC needs white splash to sideboard: peacekeeper
and finish the opponent with jace TMS agaisnt those terrible MUs:
- merfolk
- ug madness
- survival decks in general
otherwise I think it's not the right meta to play muc.
Propaganda does much the same thing as peacekeeper, and is in blue (so you don't mess with your manabase/ability to play Back to Basics and be immune to wastelands). Plus, enchantments are quite a bit studier than creatures are.
@razefire: I agree that 8 is way too many. I'm trying 7 at the moment with the list I was running before Ratchet Bomb was printed, except with Ratchet Bombs maindecked over Back to Basics.
In general, its anti-aggro; anyone who wants to T1 onedrop T2 onedrop onedrop is going to be very sad against consistent T2 keg. Plus, Keg is an all-star as far as cleaning up stuff that gets through COUNTERMAGIC EVERYWHERE.
I'd enjoy having 4 kegs/3 ratchets against Elves, Enchantress, Merfolk, Zoo, Landstill (ratchet at 2 vs standstill, ratchet at 1 vs vial), Survival, anything that does T1 Empty the Warrens, and umm... New Horizons/other manacurved aggro decks too, probably. Ratchet is also useful against countertop, since you can leave it at 2 and their longterm plan of dropping a counterbalance is kind of moot point unless they have Krosan Grip backup.
Really the question is "what other 3 cards would you rather be running". Against lands.dec, I'd rather have the maindecked Back to Basics, but grabbing those from the board along with graveyard hate should make matchup robust enough. Against combo I'd rather have either more countermagic or maindecked BtB (and possibly Chalice of the Void). There's probably some dedicated anti-aggro I could be running instead (propaganda).
Basically the Ratchet Bombs are quite a bit better against aggro (our weakest matchup) than Back to Basics, and is useful in more other matchups than anti-aggro cards not named "Vedalken Shackles".
Finally, I think consistently drawing a lot of keg effects makes our deck's countermagic choices a lot easier, since our ability to clean up stuff that slips through is a lot better.
Question: monoblue control now has access to eight powder keg effects. Whats the correct number between 4 and 8 to play? It seems like people are asking whether to play Ratchet Bomb over Powder Keg or vice versa, but not "how many of these can I afford to have in my deck?"
It probably depends on your list, but my gut feeling is 4-6, more against more aggro-heavy metagames. There's only really room for eight if you put your back to basics in the sideboard - although eight answers to T1 empty the warrens for 10-18 tokens is a bit overkill for the Belcher matchup.
Ideas Unbound needs to be thrown away cause it makes card disadvantage; i.e. for Compulsive Research which is much better;
If we're replacing ideas unbound for a 3cc draw spell, it would be better as Thirst for Knowledge, since TfK is instant speed and thus becomes a combat trick with lorescale coatl and to a lesser extent the dryad. And a late game chrome mox is something you want to pitch even more than a late game land.
22 lands is a lot for a deck that runs 8 one mana dig spells and has an aggressive mana curve. And counterbalance isn't useless without sensei's divining top, since you can cast a scry spell in response to the counterbalance trigger, as well as trying predictive things - eg, on the play turn 1 ponder putting a 2 mana spell third from top, turn two draw the 2nd from top card and drop counterbalance and nuke their 2 drop.
I remember from other gro decks that the 1 mana cantrips can replace lands to some extent - they aren't quite as good as actually having the land in your hand, but they can help you find the lands you need, since if you have a ponder or a serum visions in hand you have three more cards in which to find your second land or fix your colors.
Cards that I thought about using but didn't end up putting in this list:
Fire//Ice
Remand
Mana Leak
Sideboard hasn't been made yet. Also not sure about my land count: I'm at 16 and the chrome moxen, and it'll probably work out fine.
One sideboard idea is to swap burn for counters against storm decks.
Also a card advantage engine would be really handy, although I don't think I like loam for this deck. Deep Analysis has rotated out, sadly. Ancestral Vision is a bit slow. Scarscale ritual might work, since its additional cost would balance out with the +1/+1 counters on the dryad or coatl. Think Twice would be another option, although rather mana intensive.
To be honest, Sensei's Divining Top probably has a much better chance of getting unbanned mainly because of fetchlands leaving the format.
Counterbalance and lorescale coatl are in the format, so UG aggrocontrol would be a beast with unbanned SDT. Even the second SDT wouldn't be an issue since you could just top for top and essentially have 1: put a +1/+1 counter on all your lorescale coatl.
If wizards unbans SDT, I'm running blue green aggrocontrol with counterbalance, sensei's divining top, and lorescale coatl.
4 Ancestral Vision
3 Fact or Fiction
3 Vendilion Clique
2 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
4 Force of Will
4 Cryptic Command
4 Spell Snare
4 Counterspell
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Vedalken Shackles
3 Back to Basics
4 Spell Pierce
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Propaganda
2 Submerge
If I ran it today, I'd replace a Sphinx and either a powder keg or a cryptic command with two copies of Jace TMS. Also not entirely sure about the sideboard, haven't been playing enough Legacy recently to know how I want to hate. Dismember would also be a good idea, although perhaps from the board.
7 effective copies of Powder Keg means you can mull into a keg effect every game.
Also, only 11 sources of blue. That's far too low, even if you can shave some mana sources by running cantrips.
Deathtouching tramplers need assign only one damage per blocker. Virulent Swipe is the best option for this - its four power over two turns for one mana, plus deathtouch, which can be highly relevant. If your dudes come out fast enough, you can force him to block an infect with emrakul, whereupon you virulent swipe it and kill emrakul.
Just FYI.
Assuming you are on the play, the obvious move is T1 swamp + Carrion Feeder (you could drop the TE, but with no abuse its not really worthwhile. I'd cast the feeder first for sure if opponent was playing blue, since you are more likely to land the TE for the win after the discard spells).
Followup with a turn 2 Hymn, draw the fleshbag. T3 you draw the fiend, cast it, and in response to the ETB trigger sacrifice it to the carrion feeder. T4 fleshbag if they have any creatures out, otherwise buried alive for Krovikan Horror(s) + other useful dudes. Twisted Abomination would be a good choice to get the rest of the needed land drops.
Pithing Needle shuts down JTMS, among other things. Discard can force one down through answers unless your opponent has a completely BS hand (JTMS with double force of will backup, etc)
Drain Life will also kill a JTMS with a large enough X. Profane Command would actually be a better choice, though, since its better at killing creatures and gets some bonus action. Suffer the Past is conditionally better at killing JTMS at one less mana, and at instant speed (which is highly relevant vs control).
EOT Corpse Dance for Molten-Tail Masticore would also do the trick (pay 4 and exile a creature card in response to the sacrifice trigger, aim for the dome and redirect to JTMS). Murderous Redcap or Triskelion are perhaps better options (although at that point, Corpse Dance for Terastodon).
Soul Spike if getting three-for-one'd isn't as bad as letting JTMS live.
Is it worth making the opponents Wastelands have a valid target?
Propaganda does much the same thing as peacekeeper, and is in blue (so you don't mess with your manabase/ability to play Back to Basics and be immune to wastelands). Plus, enchantments are quite a bit studier than creatures are.
@razefire: I agree that 8 is way too many. I'm trying 7 at the moment with the list I was running before Ratchet Bomb was printed, except with Ratchet Bombs maindecked over Back to Basics.
Current list:
3 Vendilion Clique
2 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
4 Spell Snare
4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
4 Cryptic Command
3 Fact or Fiction
4 Powder Keg
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Vedalken Shackles
3 back to basics
4 spell pierce
4 anti-aggro (propaganda, submerge, hydroblast)
4 anti-graveyard (relic of progenitus, tormod's crypt
In general, its anti-aggro; anyone who wants to T1 onedrop T2 onedrop onedrop is going to be very sad against consistent T2 keg. Plus, Keg is an all-star as far as cleaning up stuff that gets through COUNTERMAGIC EVERYWHERE.
I'd enjoy having 4 kegs/3 ratchets against Elves, Enchantress, Merfolk, Zoo, Landstill (ratchet at 2 vs standstill, ratchet at 1 vs vial), Survival, anything that does T1 Empty the Warrens, and umm... New Horizons/other manacurved aggro decks too, probably. Ratchet is also useful against countertop, since you can leave it at 2 and their longterm plan of dropping a counterbalance is kind of moot point unless they have Krosan Grip backup.
Really the question is "what other 3 cards would you rather be running". Against lands.dec, I'd rather have the maindecked Back to Basics, but grabbing those from the board along with graveyard hate should make matchup robust enough. Against combo I'd rather have either more countermagic or maindecked BtB (and possibly Chalice of the Void). There's probably some dedicated anti-aggro I could be running instead (propaganda).
Basically the Ratchet Bombs are quite a bit better against aggro (our weakest matchup) than Back to Basics, and is useful in more other matchups than anti-aggro cards not named "Vedalken Shackles".
Finally, I think consistently drawing a lot of keg effects makes our deck's countermagic choices a lot easier, since our ability to clean up stuff that slips through is a lot better.
It probably depends on your list, but my gut feeling is 4-6, more against more aggro-heavy metagames. There's only really room for eight if you put your back to basics in the sideboard - although eight answers to T1 empty the warrens for 10-18 tokens is a bit overkill for the Belcher matchup.
If we're replacing ideas unbound for a 3cc draw spell, it would be better as Thirst for Knowledge, since TfK is instant speed and thus becomes a combat trick with lorescale coatl and to a lesser extent the dryad. And a late game chrome mox is something you want to pitch even more than a late game land.
I remember from other gro decks that the 1 mana cantrips can replace lands to some extent - they aren't quite as good as actually having the land in your hand, but they can help you find the lands you need, since if you have a ponder or a serum visions in hand you have three more cards in which to find your second land or fix your colors.
4 Chrome Mox
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Magma Jet
4 Repeal
4 Condescend
4 Ideas Unbound
4 Counterbalance
4 Serum Visions
4 Ponder
4 Lorescale Coatl
4 Quirion Dryad
Cards that I thought about using but didn't end up putting in this list:
Fire//Ice
Remand
Mana Leak
Sideboard hasn't been made yet. Also not sure about my land count: I'm at 16 and the chrome moxen, and it'll probably work out fine.
One sideboard idea is to swap burn for counters against storm decks.
Also a card advantage engine would be really handy, although I don't think I like loam for this deck. Deep Analysis has rotated out, sadly. Ancestral Vision is a bit slow. Scarscale ritual might work, since its additional cost would balance out with the +1/+1 counters on the dryad or coatl. Think Twice would be another option, although rather mana intensive.
Counterbalance and lorescale coatl are in the format, so UG aggrocontrol would be a beast with unbanned SDT. Even the second SDT wouldn't be an issue since you could just top for top and essentially have 1: put a +1/+1 counter on all your lorescale coatl.
If wizards unbans SDT, I'm running blue green aggrocontrol with counterbalance, sensei's divining top, and lorescale coatl.