"worth" "value" "greater than" "equal to" are all extremely vague terms, in my opinion. What do they even mean?
That said, without a specific knowledge of what we are talking about, i think that all that really matters is emotion. This is extremely debatable, many people will put intellect above emotion, preserving intelligence is more important than preserving happiness. Others would put survival above emotion, the ability to survive (usually as a species) is a lot more important than the ability to be happy (also as a species). There is no argument that i know of that could convince anyone to abandon these basic stances on life. I think happiness, or otherwise having a "good" life is a positive thing, and that the inverse, agony, sadness, and a generally "bad" life would be a negative thing.
I am not a biologist, i am not educated. I can't rightfully have a considerable opinion as far as this goes, but i think emotional capacity somewhat transcends species. Obviously there are some types of animal that can only feel a minute amount of emotion, or none at all, but i think that comparing a large number of similar animals (say, humans, and animals that are genetically similar to them (in a wide sense, not just chimps and whatnot)), then you would have varying amounts of emotion. You could have a cow that is in greater pain than a human, or a dog who is happier than one.
Assuming that happiness (a term not describing the literal emotion, but a positive life in general, there are people who enjoy being sad, or scared, and people who don't.) is a good thing, and sadness (non-literal, once again) is a bad thing, then species shouldn't be a factor, except for when it obviously defines how emotional something is.
Pain is pain, regardless of species. Happiness is happiness.
I'm sorry, it was partially my own arrogance that potentially kept us from the win. I was unable to accept the existence of a scum escorien, after bebo risked his neck to save him, and escorien was being so reluctant to vote bebo. I feel bad for losing my composure at the end of the game, i think i was overly excited and eager for a lynch, and i allowed myself to be convinced that escorien was scum a lot more easily than i should have.
At the start of the day my mentality for not claiming worked like this:
If we kill AE we are just in the same situation tomorrow, except i'm dead. The best thing for me to do will probably be to try and make a case on AE, if he gets lynched off that then i probably get an extra night of watching, which might give us the win.
After AE wasn't being lynched I thought:
I probably won't be able to kill AE tonight, but claiming now does just as much as it did before. I should probably wait to see if any new information unfolds, or if people start to buy the AE case, if town is about to mislynch i can claim then.
After Shalako claimed:
Well i know hes lying, great. I can make a case on him, his claim is pretty bad anyway, theres no way he can know who is cop just from watching, and he claims that not only are there two investigative roles in the game, but that there are four town power roles. I decided to only mention the second point, because touching too much on the first one might make me seem like i was the cop, which isn't something i wanted scum thinking.
After he confirmed himself as scum i pushed for his lynch under the same context as everyone else. I was really buying Atlseal's logic, i thought that it really unlikely for escorien to be scum, because Shalako took a huge risk protecting him, but that shalako would be the safer one, just in case. I knew Escorien wasn't the roleblocker, so i was trying to push the point that no matter in what order we killed the scum, as long as it was actually scum first, we would be in the same situation.
As time went on, i let escorien's behaviour convince me that he was scum. I didn't think that a town escorien would play the way he did, defeatist and carefully. I would be pushing shalako a hell of a lot harder, and try to really push the logic that there IS a chance that i'm town, and that shalako is the only safe chance of winning. Him acting in a manor more or less the opposite to this probably shook me up, i went for it, despite everything i had thought previously. :/
I think that if i claimed at the end of the day implicating AE as roleblocker, best case scenario was we get him lynched, vig shalako, have me die during the night, lynch escorien the next day, and are left with this group.
Bebo, TiK, Atlseal
TiK would almost certainly be the lynch target, and probably even Bebo ahead of Atlseal, but not definitely. I was thinking the best chance at winning would be to get another night or two of investigations, with the player group being so small, and the scum targets being more or less pre-determined.
Sorry guys though, the loss is largely my fault, after what i was saying about safe lynches, i was really stupid going after escorien before shalako or AE.
One left to hammer i think, unless i hammered him.
Its a possibility, but the fact that Shalako claimed as soon as escorien took heat points towards him being scum, why would shalako risk being caught in a fake claim rather than let people mislynch escorien for the win? Also, escorien has been playing as if he was shalako's scumbuddy. He would have been a lot more eager to lynch shalako if he was town, knowing that he would be lynched if shalako wasn't. (Town loss).
@AE: I was mocking escorien's notion that Shalako might not be scum (in addition to him).
Unvote, Vote: Escorion
I have to agree at this point, that its really unlikely he's scum, i'm completely confident of my read on him, in addition to all the evidence pointing toward him.
scumteam of Manders, AE, and The Ice King deserves to win. Shalako is CLAIMING scum, that means that he is scum, there is no incentive for town to play as he has.
That said, without a specific knowledge of what we are talking about, i think that all that really matters is emotion. This is extremely debatable, many people will put intellect above emotion, preserving intelligence is more important than preserving happiness. Others would put survival above emotion, the ability to survive (usually as a species) is a lot more important than the ability to be happy (also as a species). There is no argument that i know of that could convince anyone to abandon these basic stances on life. I think happiness, or otherwise having a "good" life is a positive thing, and that the inverse, agony, sadness, and a generally "bad" life would be a negative thing.
I am not a biologist, i am not educated. I can't rightfully have a considerable opinion as far as this goes, but i think emotional capacity somewhat transcends species. Obviously there are some types of animal that can only feel a minute amount of emotion, or none at all, but i think that comparing a large number of similar animals (say, humans, and animals that are genetically similar to them (in a wide sense, not just chimps and whatnot)), then you would have varying amounts of emotion. You could have a cow that is in greater pain than a human, or a dog who is happier than one.
Assuming that happiness (a term not describing the literal emotion, but a positive life in general, there are people who enjoy being sad, or scared, and people who don't.) is a good thing, and sadness (non-literal, once again) is a bad thing, then species shouldn't be a factor, except for when it obviously defines how emotional something is.
Pain is pain, regardless of species. Happiness is happiness.
At the start of the day my mentality for not claiming worked like this:
If we kill AE we are just in the same situation tomorrow, except i'm dead. The best thing for me to do will probably be to try and make a case on AE, if he gets lynched off that then i probably get an extra night of watching, which might give us the win.
After AE wasn't being lynched I thought:
I probably won't be able to kill AE tonight, but claiming now does just as much as it did before. I should probably wait to see if any new information unfolds, or if people start to buy the AE case, if town is about to mislynch i can claim then.
After Shalako claimed:
Well i know hes lying, great. I can make a case on him, his claim is pretty bad anyway, theres no way he can know who is cop just from watching, and he claims that not only are there two investigative roles in the game, but that there are four town power roles. I decided to only mention the second point, because touching too much on the first one might make me seem like i was the cop, which isn't something i wanted scum thinking.
After he confirmed himself as scum i pushed for his lynch under the same context as everyone else. I was really buying Atlseal's logic, i thought that it really unlikely for escorien to be scum, because Shalako took a huge risk protecting him, but that shalako would be the safer one, just in case. I knew Escorien wasn't the roleblocker, so i was trying to push the point that no matter in what order we killed the scum, as long as it was actually scum first, we would be in the same situation.
As time went on, i let escorien's behaviour convince me that he was scum. I didn't think that a town escorien would play the way he did, defeatist and carefully. I would be pushing shalako a hell of a lot harder, and try to really push the logic that there IS a chance that i'm town, and that shalako is the only safe chance of winning. Him acting in a manor more or less the opposite to this probably shook me up, i went for it, despite everything i had thought previously. :/
I think that if i claimed at the end of the day implicating AE as roleblocker, best case scenario was we get him lynched, vig shalako, have me die during the night, lynch escorien the next day, and are left with this group.
Bebo, TiK, Atlseal
TiK would almost certainly be the lynch target, and probably even Bebo ahead of Atlseal, but not definitely. I was thinking the best chance at winning would be to get another night or two of investigations, with the player group being so small, and the scum targets being more or less pre-determined.
Sorry guys though, the loss is largely my fault, after what i was saying about safe lynches, i was really stupid going after escorien before shalako or AE.
They're 7 stats in the game fallout, or at least in fallout 3. Each of the symbols corresponds to one of the above stats.
Its a possibility, but the fact that Shalako claimed as soon as escorien took heat points towards him being scum, why would shalako risk being caught in a fake claim rather than let people mislynch escorien for the win? Also, escorien has been playing as if he was shalako's scumbuddy. He would have been a lot more eager to lynch shalako if he was town, knowing that he would be lynched if shalako wasn't. (Town loss).
Unvote, Vote: Escorion
I have to agree at this point, that its really unlikely he's scum, i'm completely confident of my read on him, in addition to all the evidence pointing toward him.