Maybe because it's always been so easy for me to get ☺☺☺☺ that I never really understood jacking off in a theater... ERRR I mean maybe because my meta never really had top tier decks like dredge or little zoo that I never really felt the need to play EE or spell snare. I tried maindecking them one time and then I got raped by a freaking 13/13dourbark with 3 spell snares in hand.
I guess those are the type of cards you play in a wide meta like a ptq or somethin'. Tbh, in a random meta, I prefer remand to protect my own spells / tempo stuff or TT.
I did a little testing with the list I posted, and I don't think Dralnu is win-more. Like thnkr just pointed out, it's bad against burn...but let's face it, if a deck is saturated with burn then Dralnu just gets boarded out for a CoP: Red. How many decks actually play burn? There's the burn deck, which is already a really terrible game 1 anyways...Dralnu does nothing to change that problem. Then there's small Zoo, which plays about 10-12 burn spells...you can just not get the Dralnu against that deck, and instead get the Baneslayer. If you draw Dralnu naturally against Zoo and have no other action, it says "kill me now or I have infinite card advantage when I untap with this." And that's if you don't flash it in because you don't have a Teferi out. A lot of the time, too, you can just let a Bolt resolve on your Dralnu and throw away 3 lands, because by the time you're playing threats you probably have 7+lands out anyways. What other decks play burn? Big Zoo? Big Zoo is practically a bye for this deck, so if Dralnu is indeed a blank for that match-up, it's not going to do much to stop you from winning.
I don't think that, if you have a Teferi on the table, you have already won the game. Teferi gets raced by Zoo's one-drops and outclassed by its 2-drops and 3-drops. If that was the case, why do we play a Baneslayer Angel in here, too? How about Crovax? What do those 2 finishers do for us? Baneslayer closes games against beatdown decks, and Crovax locks out both Elfball and Thopter Foundry (among other things). I don't think it's unreasonable to play another creature that we can Teachings for with a Teferi on the table. Dralnu is an insane card advantage machine, and this deck has the ability to survive long enough to get him online. It doesn't matter that it's slow. I don't care how slow a card is; speed is relative to the changing nature of the game state and how quickly you can go through the motions of playing your deck. If Dralnu takes another 5 turns to win, but gives me 6 Paths, 8 Cryptics, and 2 Extirpates over the course of the entire game, I'll play it in any event. It's not even hard to play this deck quickly, anyways. Because you basically never tap out and because there are only about 3 good targets to Teachings for at any given time, you should be just thinking on your opponent's turn and reacting to him, thereby not really wasting much time planning out your plays.
So, I think I need to test with him more, but my preliminary tests with Dralnu have shown that he's not really a liability for this deck in most match-ups. On the contrary, he's more like Santa Claus. Flashing back Paths and Repeals to solve the board or flashing back Cryptics and Esper Charms to gain insane CA is awesome. People have been going up to 9+ draw spells in here, so maybe playing a Dralnu is accomplishing the same goal of mass CA, but with only one slot.
The only thing I actually don't like about Dralnu is that I can't really play Logic Knot with him in the deck. But that's not a serious concern at all.
I'm almost certain you'll come to the same conclusion as I did but feel free to test him and don't forget to let us know how he did!
Think Twice. I really love that card. Amongst all the other card drawing spells (with the exception of esper charm), I personaly think it's, by far, the best card draw for this deck. Not only because it's instant, but because it costs two. I could probably not say how many times it got me an additional land turn 3 when I was about to miss a land drop. I don't think I'd go anywhere below 2 main for this deck, just thought I'd share
I think dralnu is a bit win-more. If you have a teferi out and start laying beats, I don't think you need anything else than time. I mean you're gonna deny every removal right? The way I see it, Dralnu is good with teferi, teferi alone is good and Dralnu alone is bad. 1- If you tap out for him, you will most likely lose 3 lands the following turn. 2- He doesnt clock or apply any pressure whatsoever; he just sits there saying ''Oh hi I didn't see you there!'' and then proceed to promptly deny any spells your opponents will attempt to play(which is, ironicly, what the deck is supposed to do without dralnu). If you're about to say ''but dont lay it turn 5 dummy'', It's a card WAYYY too slow if you lay it either turn 5 or 20. Creatures in this deck are supposed to be Pressure AND Disruption, just like clique / teferi / crovax / mindcensor. An Erayo guy that just sits there won't do any good to the deck IMO.
Changing subjects. After playing it alot, I think vendilion clique would better be a sideboard card instead. I don't necessarly have a particular reason in mind, but he seems like hes not always good in every matchup. The other 3 creatures (slayer/teferi/crovax) seem to have a bigger influence on the board (if your playing against a deck that somehow plays creatures too). I mean you're opponents are like CUTE.... smash for 8. But hes incredibly awesome against scapeshift and other semi-creatureless decks. I'm looking foward into moving from 2 MB to 2 SB.
#1 What happens if I cast Esper Charm and say word for word ''I'll target myself''? Obviously I meant I'll draw two cards but I can see this being called. Technically, I didn't choose the mods but assuming the only times you can target a player is by having him/her discarding two cards, I can see this being confusing. What would a judge say in a ptq or high tourny?
#2 Do I have a chance to remand my own broken ambition/logic knot/mana leak to my hand if my opponent choose to not pay for it? My guess is I can't do anything during the resolution of a spell / ability, just making sure here
Works fine for me. What language have you set as the default in your browser?
It's set to ''united states'' and french... I want to change it to canada / english but for some reason it doesnt want to save the changes. I stil get the visual spoilers in french.
Would you mind posting exactly what you do when you change ur language?
Btw thanks alot for your time
EDIT: Oh I just read your post again and changed the language in my browser to english. Everything works fine right now.... But for some reason some things are still written in french like ''the gatherer'' or the ''forums'' and the other options on the left. But the content itself is in english.
Is it only me or does the thing absolutly does not work? I click on ''select language/country'' on the bottom of the site and even if I delete every cookies and whatnot then refresh the page, it still brings the whole goddamn thing in french still. Anyone know how to get around this?
I think you have to choose between Gifts Ungiven or Mystical Teachings. It's just too mana-intensive to play that many 4-drop slow CA tutors in Extended. I like Teachings because I can use it as a surgical tool to find any business in my deck. I don't like Gifts because it's weaker against countermagic and it forces you to build almost your entire deck full of silver bullets, and Gifts doesn't ever get the countermagic I want when I cast it. Gifts is good to set up something like Thopter/Sword or Mindslaver recursion, but other than that I strongly dislike it in Extended. That's why I play Teachings, not Gifts. If you think Gifts is amazing in here, you're probably not playing the same Draw-Go Teachings that I am playing (or Wafo-Tapa is playing, or the other guys with strong tournament finishes are playing). If you really want more card advantage on top of the Teachings and Esper Charms, play 2 Think Twice or TfK or Ancestral Vision. Gifts really screws up the way this deck is built, and I seriously discourage the card's use here. I have tested it and it is a half-baked plan. If you guys want to discuss this further, I have thousands of words to share about how much I dislike Gifts Ungiven in this format, despite how much I love that card and the fact that I've been trying to build around it for several months.
Punishing Grove is waaaaaaaaaaay too slooooow for this deck. It's not hard to keep the board clear against aggro, and you don't need that kind of graveyard-recursive endgame in this deck. Groves don't contribute to Esper Charm or Cryptic Command or any of the other cards that make this deck solid, so why would you ruin your manabase trying to include them? You have to take pain or play more tapped lands just to have the other red sources in this deck...it's just bad in general to include that combo.
I also think Mindbreak Trap is a waste of space unless you're using it as a bullet against storm combo, if that ever becomes popular (or particularly strong). The only playable storm combo right now is Swath/Shot, and you should never lose to that deck with a Teachings deck playing ~15 counterspells, unless it gets a clutch Gigadrowse and you don't have enough resources to fight through it. Maybe MBTrap is worth a sideboard space for AIR, Swath/Shot, counterwars, or other fringe situations, but there just isn't room for it in this deck and you can probably do a better job just playing Thoughtseize instead (out of the board, though it's maindeckable).
@Tombstalker: I tested it. I love Tombstalker, but it doesn't belong in here. It's just not needed. It's either going to be a cheap threat against control/combo, or a road-block for smaller creatures in Zoo. Basically you don't need the cheap threats because you should be boarding 3-costing flash fliers for that job, and you don't need road-blocks because there more effective ways to combat Zoo and Tombstalker dies to Path. Tombstalker used to be way more effective than it is now because it dodges Explosives, Smother, Terror (Doom Blade), and Threads of Disloyalty. But Path is everywhere, especially in the aggro decks against which Tombstalker would be used as a wall. It's not like last year before Conflux came out where you could drop a TS with Snare/Leak open and be safe from ORing and Tribal Flames. Path changed that completely.
I believe you're right @ tombstalker. Now that I think about it, there's alot of path to exile in my meta so it might not be such a great idea afterall. Good point.
However I kindly disagree on the gifts ungiven part. Well for the most of it. I think you misinterpreted what I meant. I was only suggesting using 1 in the deck to maximize your card advantage engine in the late game. I assume you often go teachings for teachings right? Eventhough it is not something you would do when you're being clocked, it will litterally be card advantage at its best. The times I did that, I ended up with 2 card draw in hand and 1 teachings in the yard. And if you simply draw it, it will be a 4 for 1, which isnt always the case on teachings. Of course you can use it like the guy above me said (3 different *** / spot removal) but that would be a different list. I don't think ***s are MD worthy.
Though I'm not totally sold on the gifts ungiven part. Would you have more details why not to use it? The way I'm describing it, it acts alot like a 4th teachings O_o Lets get this straight right now, I am not experienced with the deck much. All I did was alot of goldfish to tune it up and a bit of testing with a friend of mine; nothing big... So I wouldn't want to appear like I know what I'm talking about
Through some testing, I once went out of threat due to heavy removal and got milled caus' of all my card advantaged ... I guess those games don't happen too often, but it wouldn't be a stretch to imagine a similar game against mirror. I think adding a single urza's factory in the deck might not hurt. I think the manabase's pretty consistant. Wutcha think?
Here it is! I was searching for a teachings threat to get / share new ideas.
I agree on the crovax thing. He shuts down thopter foundry, slows down aggro and is a recursive threat against control decks. I also like wafo's tech on the vendilion clique. Unfortunatly, this archetype has alot of way to be built. I guess we can't really come out with ONE optimized list. I guess it all depends on your meta O_o
What would you guys think about a singleton Tombstalker? My guess is that it could be good depending on what type of card draw you're playing. Like TfK for instance, he will (most of the time) make you ditch two cards. If you go counter on turn two, remove a guy with a doom blade / path and draw a bunch of cards with esper charm and or gifts ungiven, he can easily be a 5/5 beater for BB. That's one thing I noticed about the deck; the graveyard grows thick pretty quickly. He's also pro doomblade (which is pretty played right now).
On a second note, I didn't see a single list in here that has a single gifts ungiven... What? If you tutor for that card with a teachings, you can get either 3 card draws (charm tfk tt?) and another teachings, or a whole bunch of business spells. Of course that would be alot closer to a toolbox list than the others.
Blue: Mind Control
White: Day of judgment
I guess those are the type of cards you play in a wide meta like a ptq or somethin'. Tbh, in a random meta, I prefer remand to protect my own spells / tempo stuff or TT.
I'm almost certain you'll come to the same conclusion as I did but feel free to test him and don't forget to let us know how he did!
Think Twice. I really love that card. Amongst all the other card drawing spells (with the exception of esper charm), I personaly think it's, by far, the best card draw for this deck. Not only because it's instant, but because it costs two. I could probably not say how many times it got me an additional land turn 3 when I was about to miss a land drop. I don't think I'd go anywhere below 2 main for this deck, just thought I'd share
Changing subjects. After playing it alot, I think vendilion clique would better be a sideboard card instead. I don't necessarly have a particular reason in mind, but he seems like hes not always good in every matchup. The other 3 creatures (slayer/teferi/crovax) seem to have a bigger influence on the board (if your playing against a deck that somehow plays creatures too). I mean you're opponents are like CUTE.... smash for 8. But hes incredibly awesome against scapeshift and other semi-creatureless decks. I'm looking foward into moving from 2 MB to 2 SB.
thanks
#2 Do I have a chance to remand my own broken ambition/logic knot/mana leak to my hand if my opponent choose to not pay for it? My guess is I can't do anything during the resolution of a spell / ability, just making sure here
It's set to ''united states'' and french... I want to change it to canada / english but for some reason it doesnt want to save the changes. I stil get the visual spoilers in french.
Would you mind posting exactly what you do when you change ur language?
Btw thanks alot for your time
EDIT: Oh I just read your post again and changed the language in my browser to english. Everything works fine right now.... But for some reason some things are still written in french like ''the gatherer'' or the ''forums'' and the other options on the left. But the content itself is in english.
Feel free to close this thread and thanks alot
This in every words.
I believe you're right @ tombstalker. Now that I think about it, there's alot of path to exile in my meta so it might not be such a great idea afterall. Good point.
However I kindly disagree on the gifts ungiven part. Well for the most of it. I think you misinterpreted what I meant. I was only suggesting using 1 in the deck to maximize your card advantage engine in the late game. I assume you often go teachings for teachings right? Eventhough it is not something you would do when you're being clocked, it will litterally be card advantage at its best. The times I did that, I ended up with 2 card draw in hand and 1 teachings in the yard. And if you simply draw it, it will be a 4 for 1, which isnt always the case on teachings. Of course you can use it like the guy above me said (3 different *** / spot removal) but that would be a different list. I don't think ***s are MD worthy.
Though I'm not totally sold on the gifts ungiven part. Would you have more details why not to use it? The way I'm describing it, it acts alot like a 4th teachings O_o Lets get this straight right now, I am not experienced with the deck much. All I did was alot of goldfish to tune it up and a bit of testing with a friend of mine; nothing big... So I wouldn't want to appear like I know what I'm talking about
Through some testing, I once went out of threat due to heavy removal and got milled caus' of all my card advantaged
I agree on the crovax thing. He shuts down thopter foundry, slows down aggro and is a recursive threat against control decks. I also like wafo's tech on the vendilion clique. Unfortunatly, this archetype has alot of way to be built. I guess we can't really come out with ONE optimized list. I guess it all depends on your meta O_o
What would you guys think about a singleton Tombstalker? My guess is that it could be good depending on what type of card draw you're playing. Like TfK for instance, he will (most of the time) make you ditch two cards. If you go counter on turn two, remove a guy with a doom blade / path and draw a bunch of cards with esper charm and or gifts ungiven, he can easily be a 5/5 beater for BB. That's one thing I noticed about the deck; the graveyard grows thick pretty quickly. He's also pro doomblade (which is pretty played right now).
On a second note, I didn't see a single list in here that has a single gifts ungiven... What? If you tutor for that card with a teachings, you can get either 3 card draws (charm tfk tt?) and another teachings, or a whole bunch of business spells. Of course that would be alot closer to a toolbox list than the others.
Thoughts?
thank you very much my friend.. i guess I have to be careful about what I do then