Quote from Remba »Quote from Arwin_Rand »Oh lord Vorthos you are not only completely misrepresenting the point but using false equivalency to a point that if I didn't know your post history I'd say was trolling. The chicken and egg thing is completely not even close to what I'm discussing here and you know it but I hope it made your day to get that poorly thought out idea trotted out in a post.
I'm aware that Ugin is very different from all the dragons we've seen on Tarkir. That's the whole point of my question. With what information I have, the situation makes no sense. Apparently your reading comprehension needs work so I'll reiterate the actual question. What am I missing? There is obviously something here that makes this NOT a plot hole but based on the data I have Ugin shouldn't exist. I'm out right admitting my data is incomplete but I'm wondering if anyone has anything extra I don't. Maro has said that the cosmology of Tarkir takes the egg thing out of the equation so I'm asking is there anything else that's been covered that I don't know about?
You're missing the fact that Ugin isn't like the other dragons on Tarkir (which you stated in the OP but missed the importance of). He's an Elder Dragon (an original one, not one of the Tarkir retcon knockoffs), which means he was probably born the same way that other Elder Dragons were.
I love how everyone seems to enjoy saying things that aren't necessarily true.
1. The creative team has NOT said that Ugin is an Elder dragon. In fact they've gone out of their way to say otherwise.
2. The other elder dragons started off as brood leaders that we can infer WERE born from the dragon tempests based on their affinity for the specific terrain since we're told that the dragon leaders came AFTER the storms AND have specific territories with specific terrain. They became elder dragons through both aging into the role and consolidating their power. They are elder with a lower case E as opposed to Elder with a capital one.
As for the argument "We don't know Ugin was born" that would fly if we didn't know that there has to be an origin for beings like this especially planeswalkers.
Since it's become apparent nobody actually has an answer I'll kindly request a mod lock and delete the thread.
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Gimmick is gimmicky. I dunno, it just seems uninteresting to me even if they do work it out mechanically.
Out of everything, this is the most nonsensical unless we get a sufficient reason he adopts blue. Something half decent at least other than "oh, he's smarter". Then again, the blue in the Temur was almost entirely magical rather than philosophical.
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But there are also those who read it as a romantic relationship and that is valid too because the interpretations are independent to each reader. The Death of the Author provides that the the personal experience people read into a passage is valid to them and we pretty much just have to come up with a popular consensus. Which is why I worry because if the consensus seems to fluctuate between the romantic and the platonic and if it sways too far to a "soul mate" situation, I fear we're going to get stuck with it in the fandom.
Essentially, it comes down to perception is reality, and that worries me.
red certainly can be loyal, but I'm not sure I'd call it the color of loyalty... Loyalty is a trait that can really manifest in any color just because of what it is. Even Toshiro Umezawa was loyal to the Hyozan Reckoners, and he was mono-black.
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The difference between Chandra and Gideon and Narset and Sarkhan is the sort of chemistry and tension that was present.
Narset and Sarkhan lacked pretty much all of that. They met and got along, but there wasn't really anything there that made sense as a relationship. Sarkhan went all agog and smitten with her, but it was very much a projection onto Narset instead of a mutually built relationship. To quote Barbara Streissand from a movie (I honestly don't remember which one) "You aren't in love with me, you're in love with the idea of me."
Gideon and Chandra, on the other hand, had an obvious tension and worked together well. The fact that they didn't want to admit it, and finally the pair confided in each other felt much more developed than the few days Sarkhan and Narset spent with each other even though it was probably roughly the same amount of time spent together. I mean, part of that might have genuinely been the difference between a foxhole romance and roadtrip buddy, but ultimately, there seemed to be genuine chemistry between Gideon and Chandra that was totally missing from Mister crazy pants and his bride to be.
Essentially, I just don't see how Sarkhan could actually be in a relationship because he IS crazy. And not functionally either, but completely outside society crazy.
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... that was a thing? Geez.
I have complicated feelings about that then. Because it just kind of fuels the crazier speculations and that doesn't do some of us any favors.
Good on the people that worked that out though...
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Out of all of the Bantish nations, that one just feels most likely to me. Valeron already had Elspeth and Topa and Jhess just don't feel right to me. Could have ended up in Eos, but... I mean, come on, Akros and Akrasa is just too funny.
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I mean, really, none of them are demanding virgin sacrifices, and in the past we've seen far far less reasonable dragonlords that basically all acted like Silumgar. (The Primeval Empire, for example)
Now, I'm not defending them or refuting your point, but I think it might be an issue of perspective and past experience shaping how we regard their actions in comparison to others.
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I find artificial data points skew the results and lead to biased conclusions about how the nature of the multiverse is supposed to function.
Partly, I'll admit, I just don't want to deal with everyone trying to decide what color some world is every time we see a new one.