I am in complete agreement with the OP. I don't mind that there's no awesome mythic (in other words, the $50 plus type). Instead, if you open a booster box and pull 4 - 6 mythics, you'll get good to great mythics.
Compare that to Avacyn (which I think was a great set); you could pull Entreat or Bonfire or a few other good/great mythics, or you could be like me who pulled multiple copies of Craterhoof/Misthollow/Primal Surge/Descent and Malignus. Blech.
Very excited for RtR: good/great mythics (all 15!!), and then a much higher number of very strong and/or creative rares.
This is definitely the best good/total mythic ratio in my opinion.
I appreciate a lot of the constructive feedback (and notable research) that has come up through many of the posts. This has changed my opinion (somewhat) on the flavour of the mythics revealed so far.
Planeswalkers: 'nuff said.
Olivia, Grimgrin, and Mikaeus: I already appreciated these cards in that order. Olivia still remains my favorite at this point.
Army of the Damned: total concession on my part - this fits well in Innistrad. Truthfully, I don't particularly like the card but it suits the theme.
Reaper/Dragon: I'm still not sold. Perhaps it's only this: with these two, I doubt anyone will ever put two of these in play on the same side at the same time. So why not give them more character/flavour and make them legends? Name, Abyssal Reaper would work really well with some specific flavour text added. Make a similar change to the dragon (and completely rewrite the currently bland flavour text), and I will support these two cards.
Essence and Ruinator: Just not mythic - in terms of flavour. I know there are other considerations in determining rarity, but in this set's top-down design, flavour should be retained and probably would not have been that difficult to do so here.
We'll see what happens with the rest of the mythics.
And just to be clear: I am thrilled with Innistrad as a whole so far. I just wanted/expected more from the mythics - again, in terms of flavour/theme.
What about planeswalkers are Gothic horror? There's more precedent for the dragon and the avatar than there is for planeswalkers.
Yet those who complain about the flavor not being Gothic complain about the dragon and the avatar and not the planeswalkers. Why is this?
Well, mostly because the flavour of the planeswalkers fits extremely well. Look at the art, their names....those are both very evocative of the horror genre and Innistrad in particular. Liliana's appearance screams Gothic to me, and the concept of the "cursed individual" plays out very well with Garruk (and many of the transform cards).
As you said yourself, this is MTG so we knew there were going to be planeswalkers. In terms of flavour, these were well designed with Innistrad in mind: we didn't get merfolk or cat people. We have one that could be described as a gothic witch/siren/etc. and one that has been cursed.
It's good to see many thoughtful responses to my OP; remember: I'm not commenting on the playability, money value, or even the design (much) of the mythics.
I just felt that since mythics are intended to bring with them "special, unique flavour" (a paraphrase from MaRo's intro to mythics), and that this set has been designed top-down (intended to drip and ooze with flavour)...many of the mythics revealed so far have missed that mark.
In hindsight, maybe the Army of the Damned is sufficiently mythic in terms of flavour. Definitely it was the most recently revealed ones (random green avatar and blue zombie that feels generic and black) that prompted my post.
As for my suggestions regarding the stereotypical characters, those were merely some quick ideas. I would hope the designers would develop something more original (like Olivia Voldaren - best mythic in terms of flavour so far).
Finally...the set as a whole does look very good with what has been spoiled to this point. Just hoped there'd be more wow factor in terms of mythical flavour.
Nope, that's Dominia. Dominaria is the plane where most of the early sets were set.
My point is that the fact that the plane's flavor is based on Gothic horror does not mean that it doesn't have things like dragons and planeswalkers. And Innistrad has its own flavor. It is not supposed to be Stereotypical Horror Trope Depository Plane.
Actually, we're both wrong. You are correct that Dominaria is one of the planes, but the overall name is simply the Multiverse - according to the Planes of Existence tab on the mtg website.
As for your other comment: we disagree. Done.
@ Souljer: forgot about the Cavalier - artistically, that's virtually spot on. Good call.
They fit that standard. Your problem seems to be that they don't fit your idea of what a horror setting should be like. The problem is with your idea, not with the mythics.
Innistrad may have been inspired by classic horror, but it's still MTG. This is still Dominia.
Actually, that would be Dominaria, but that's just nitpicking. More to the point, Dominaria consists of a multitude of planes/worlds/etc. so one that is loaded with the flavour and theme of Gothic horror does not conflict at all. Therefore, I'm not sure about your argument on that point.
My "idea" relates to the concept of mythics as outlined by Mark Rosewater himself - they should be Planeswalkers (check!), legends (we have three so far) and epic feeling creatures/spells (Army - maybe, but the rest feel relatively standard).
However, MaRo specifically comments on the flavor of the mythic rare, and considering his further statements that this set was designed top-down with a huge emphasis on flavour/theme/atmosphere/etc., I feel very justified in making the argument that they've missed their mark on a number of the mythics revealed so far.
Edit: I can appreciate the arguments presented for Essence, but I just don't see it. The art creates no atmosphere to suit the "forest horror" or the wendigo (not really Gothic, but horror - okay); the art makes me think of Narnia for some reason (and I love that series), but not horror. The effect is potentially powerful, but this thread is specifically meant to focus on flavour and theme.
I think you're misunderstanding what mythic means. Whether something is rare or mythic isn't supposed to have any flavor meaning.
Directly from MaRo's article introducing the mythic rare:
We want the flavor of mythic rare to be something that feels very special and unique. Generally speaking we expect that to mean cards like Planeswalkers, most legends, and epic-feeling creatures and spells. They will not just be a list of each set's most powerful tournament-level cards.
So I believe I understand exactly what the mythic is meant to be.
I've been looking at the ten mythics spoiled so far, and I must admit to being somewhat disappointed. This has nothing whatsoever to do with power levels. At all. I just feel, so far, that Wizards missed the mark on the incredible potential for truly "mythic" cards in a Gothic Horror setting.
Three cards work for me: planeswalkes are always mythic no matter the setting, so Liliana and Garruk are fine. I really like the thematic strength of Olivia Voldaren, and to a significantly lesser degree, Mikaeus and Grimgrin work. The other five don't fit: much has been said about the dragon and the demon; the Army is okay but might have been fine as a regular rare; and the new two just don't work - Essence is entirely out of place in terms of Gothic Horror, and the Ruinator feels rare to me (as mentioned below, its creator would make a much stronger mythic).
But there was so much more potential to develop incredible legends extrapolated from the truly iconic elements of Gothic horror. And, again, I don't mean in terms of power level. They could be ridiculously overcosted and I wouldn't mind. I was simply hoping (expecting?) mythics derived from true horror legends - a Dracula variant (mono black instead of Reaper of the Abyss?), a Dr. Frankenstein/mad scientist variant (mono blue instead of the very generic feeling Skaab Ruinator) , the Headless Horseman (perhaps white/black...who knows, maybe it'll be a double faced card at some point)...and even the possibility of one or more legendary lands.
When I first heard Innistrad, I imagined that to be the name of the classic castle....perhaps something called Innistrad, High Castle or something along those lines...maybe it'd be a City of Brass type land which could also have one or more additional effects with a specific colour cost and tapping.
Don't get me wrong...much of what has been spoiled so far (83 cards at this writing) is great and has me very excited for the release of Innistrad. I just haven't been impressed with the flavor/thematic concept of most of the mythics.
Although there may actually be 16 mythics in this set, as Garruk counts as one of the extra 20 double-faced cards.
So my guess is that there are 15 "regular" mythics (4 known) plus the DFC Garruk.
I would think to keep an eye on Genesis Wave. In some sort of mana-ramp deck, it could allow for some sort of massive drop of permanents that might truly be game-changing or game-winning.
As for current pricing, the one that surprises me is the value of the new "duals" as well. They seem reasonably balanced, so I'm surprised they aren't at least a little higher in value. Time will tell on those, I guess.
I think there are quite a few good rares in the set, but they still won't have too high of a price tag. The advent of Mythics has shifted the secondary market; rares are no longer the chase cards and therefore do not often exceed a price point (whether that is the $5 tag, or even the cost of a booster).
I am surprised at the amount of negativity towards the duals; I don't think they'll ever go over $3-4, but they seem quite playable. Ratchet Bomb will be the "chase rare" but still likely won't exceed $6 in price. From what we've seen so far, there are other rares that may impact Standard: Sunblast Angel, Tempered Steel, Grand Architect, Memoricide look like they could have an impact; Leonin Arbiter will likely end up in the sb, and there are other cards with potential: mostly the artifacts such as Portal and maybe the Myr cards.
I find the Mythic list a little underwhelming: there are some great "fun" cards, like Skithiryx and the Archangel. The Planeswalkers will almost certainly dominate the top 3 of pricing for SOM. There are, however, some very disappointing mythics: Platinum Emperion and Liege of the Tangle are bland at best; a reprint (Mindslaver) is meh at mythic; Quicksilver Gargantuan would be a weak rare, which makes it a godawful mythic; and I think Mox Opal is being massively overhyped at current pricing.
Well, according to the name/number crunch thread: Ezuri, Renegade Leader is mythic so that'd be green. Don't know if that has been confirmed.
Current count:
White = 2 (Elspeth Tirel, Indomitable Archangel)
Blue = 1 (Quicksilver Gargantuan)
Black = 2 (Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon and Geth, Lord of the Vault)
Red = 1 (Koth of the Hammer)
Green = 1 (Liege of the Tangle)
Gold = 1 (W/U - Venser the Sojourner)
Artifact = 6 (Molten-Tail Masticore, Mox Opal, Sword of Body and Mind, Platinum Emperion, Wurmcoil Engine, Mindslaver)
Box 1
LEFT
Leyline of the Void
Elvish Archdruid
Destructive Force
Serra Ascendant
Nantuko Shade
Sun Titan
Triskelion (Foil Reverberate)
Brittle Effigy
Protean Hydra
Temple Bell
Angelic Arbiter
Conundrum Sphinx
MIDDLE
Honor of the Pure
Leyline of Anticipation
Knight Exemplar
Inferno Titan
Clone
Traumatize
Chandra Nalaar
Fauna Shaman
Leyline of Sanctity
Hoarding Dragon
Rootbound Crag
Necrotic Plague
RIGHT
Captivating Vampire
Wild Evocation
Magma Phoenix
Redirect
Haunting Echoes (Foil Overwhelming Stampede)
Sword of Vengeance
Jinxed Idol
Obstinate Baloth
Drowned Catacomb
Merfolk Sovereign
Captivating Vampire
Goblin Chieftain
Will post second box later...only really disappointing thing was that I pulled two foil rares in the second box too - Overwhelming Stampede and Reverberate (again!!). Sigh.
Hmm...have our mods all disappeared? Or was Seds the only one able to update the spoiler? And why did he resign anyway?
It's disappointing to see this - hopefully not a sign of an unraveling for Salvation. After all, Rumour Mill season is clearly the peak period for traffic to this site, and one would think they'd want to keep the spoiler up to date.
Still missing: Angelic Arbiter, Demon of Death's Gate, Phylactery Lich, Pyretic Ritual, Mitotic Slime and Temple Bell.
Compare that to Avacyn (which I think was a great set); you could pull Entreat or Bonfire or a few other good/great mythics, or you could be like me who pulled multiple copies of Craterhoof/Misthollow/Primal Surge/Descent and Malignus. Blech.
Very excited for RtR: good/great mythics (all 15!!), and then a much higher number of very strong and/or creative rares.
This is definitely the best good/total mythic ratio in my opinion.
Planeswalkers: 'nuff said.
Olivia, Grimgrin, and Mikaeus: I already appreciated these cards in that order. Olivia still remains my favorite at this point.
Army of the Damned: total concession on my part - this fits well in Innistrad. Truthfully, I don't particularly like the card but it suits the theme.
Reaper/Dragon: I'm still not sold. Perhaps it's only this: with these two, I doubt anyone will ever put two of these in play on the same side at the same time. So why not give them more character/flavour and make them legends? Name, Abyssal Reaper would work really well with some specific flavour text added. Make a similar change to the dragon (and completely rewrite the currently bland flavour text), and I will support these two cards.
Essence and Ruinator: Just not mythic - in terms of flavour. I know there are other considerations in determining rarity, but in this set's top-down design, flavour should be retained and probably would not have been that difficult to do so here.
We'll see what happens with the rest of the mythics.
And just to be clear: I am thrilled with Innistrad as a whole so far. I just wanted/expected more from the mythics - again, in terms of flavour/theme.
Well, mostly because the flavour of the planeswalkers fits extremely well. Look at the art, their names....those are both very evocative of the horror genre and Innistrad in particular. Liliana's appearance screams Gothic to me, and the concept of the "cursed individual" plays out very well with Garruk (and many of the transform cards).
As you said yourself, this is MTG so we knew there were going to be planeswalkers. In terms of flavour, these were well designed with Innistrad in mind: we didn't get merfolk or cat people. We have one that could be described as a gothic witch/siren/etc. and one that has been cursed.
I just felt that since mythics are intended to bring with them "special, unique flavour" (a paraphrase from MaRo's intro to mythics), and that this set has been designed top-down (intended to drip and ooze with flavour)...many of the mythics revealed so far have missed that mark.
In hindsight, maybe the Army of the Damned is sufficiently mythic in terms of flavour. Definitely it was the most recently revealed ones (random green avatar and blue zombie that feels generic and black) that prompted my post.
As for my suggestions regarding the stereotypical characters, those were merely some quick ideas. I would hope the designers would develop something more original (like Olivia Voldaren - best mythic in terms of flavour so far).
Finally...the set as a whole does look very good with what has been spoiled to this point. Just hoped there'd be more wow factor in terms of mythical flavour.
Actually, we're both wrong. You are correct that Dominaria is one of the planes, but the overall name is simply the Multiverse - according to the Planes of Existence tab on the mtg website.
As for your other comment: we disagree. Done.
@ Souljer: forgot about the Cavalier - artistically, that's virtually spot on. Good call.
Actually, that would be Dominaria, but that's just nitpicking. More to the point, Dominaria consists of a multitude of planes/worlds/etc. so one that is loaded with the flavour and theme of Gothic horror does not conflict at all. Therefore, I'm not sure about your argument on that point.
My "idea" relates to the concept of mythics as outlined by Mark Rosewater himself - they should be Planeswalkers (check!), legends (we have three so far) and epic feeling creatures/spells (Army - maybe, but the rest feel relatively standard).
However, MaRo specifically comments on the flavor of the mythic rare, and considering his further statements that this set was designed top-down with a huge emphasis on flavour/theme/atmosphere/etc., I feel very justified in making the argument that they've missed their mark on a number of the mythics revealed so far.
Edit: I can appreciate the arguments presented for Essence, but I just don't see it. The art creates no atmosphere to suit the "forest horror" or the wendigo (not really Gothic, but horror - okay); the art makes me think of Narnia for some reason (and I love that series), but not horror. The effect is potentially powerful, but this thread is specifically meant to focus on flavour and theme.
Directly from MaRo's article introducing the mythic rare:
We want the flavor of mythic rare to be something that feels very special and unique. Generally speaking we expect that to mean cards like Planeswalkers, most legends, and epic-feeling creatures and spells. They will not just be a list of each set's most powerful tournament-level cards.
So I believe I understand exactly what the mythic is meant to be.
@ viperesque: thanks.
Three cards work for me: planeswalkes are always mythic no matter the setting, so Liliana and Garruk are fine. I really like the thematic strength of Olivia Voldaren, and to a significantly lesser degree, Mikaeus and Grimgrin work. The other five don't fit: much has been said about the dragon and the demon; the Army is okay but might have been fine as a regular rare; and the new two just don't work - Essence is entirely out of place in terms of Gothic Horror, and the Ruinator feels rare to me (as mentioned below, its creator would make a much stronger mythic).
But there was so much more potential to develop incredible legends extrapolated from the truly iconic elements of Gothic horror. And, again, I don't mean in terms of power level. They could be ridiculously overcosted and I wouldn't mind. I was simply hoping (expecting?) mythics derived from true horror legends - a Dracula variant (mono black instead of Reaper of the Abyss?), a Dr. Frankenstein/mad scientist variant (mono blue instead of the very generic feeling Skaab Ruinator) , the Headless Horseman (perhaps white/black...who knows, maybe it'll be a double faced card at some point)...and even the possibility of one or more legendary lands.
When I first heard Innistrad, I imagined that to be the name of the classic castle....perhaps something called Innistrad, High Castle or something along those lines...maybe it'd be a City of Brass type land which could also have one or more additional effects with a specific colour cost and tapping.
Don't get me wrong...much of what has been spoiled so far (83 cards at this writing) is great and has me very excited for the release of Innistrad. I just haven't been impressed with the flavor/thematic concept of most of the mythics.
So my guess is that there are 15 "regular" mythics (4 known) plus the DFC Garruk.
As for current pricing, the one that surprises me is the value of the new "duals" as well. They seem reasonably balanced, so I'm surprised they aren't at least a little higher in value. Time will tell on those, I guess.
I am surprised at the amount of negativity towards the duals; I don't think they'll ever go over $3-4, but they seem quite playable. Ratchet Bomb will be the "chase rare" but still likely won't exceed $6 in price. From what we've seen so far, there are other rares that may impact Standard: Sunblast Angel, Tempered Steel, Grand Architect, Memoricide look like they could have an impact; Leonin Arbiter will likely end up in the sb, and there are other cards with potential: mostly the artifacts such as Portal and maybe the Myr cards.
I find the Mythic list a little underwhelming: there are some great "fun" cards, like Skithiryx and the Archangel. The Planeswalkers will almost certainly dominate the top 3 of pricing for SOM. There are, however, some very disappointing mythics: Platinum Emperion and Liege of the Tangle are bland at best; a reprint (Mindslaver) is meh at mythic; Quicksilver Gargantuan would be a weak rare, which makes it a godawful mythic; and I think Mox Opal is being massively overhyped at current pricing.
Current count:
White = 2 (Elspeth Tirel, Indomitable Archangel)
Blue = 1 (Quicksilver Gargantuan)
Black = 2 (Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon and Geth, Lord of the Vault)
Red = 1 (Koth of the Hammer)
Green = 1 (Liege of the Tangle)
Gold = 1 (W/U - Venser the Sojourner)
Artifact = 6 (Molten-Tail Masticore, Mox Opal, Sword of Body and Mind, Platinum Emperion, Wurmcoil Engine, Mindslaver)
I wouldn't be surprised if it's another artifact.
LEFT
Leyline of the Void
Elvish Archdruid
Destructive Force
Serra Ascendant
Nantuko Shade
Sun Titan
Triskelion (Foil Reverberate)
Brittle Effigy
Protean Hydra
Temple Bell
Angelic Arbiter
Conundrum Sphinx
MIDDLE
Honor of the Pure
Leyline of Anticipation
Knight Exemplar
Inferno Titan
Clone
Traumatize
Chandra Nalaar
Fauna Shaman
Leyline of Sanctity
Hoarding Dragon
Rootbound Crag
Necrotic Plague
RIGHT
Captivating Vampire
Wild Evocation
Magma Phoenix
Redirect
Haunting Echoes (Foil Overwhelming Stampede)
Sword of Vengeance
Jinxed Idol
Obstinate Baloth
Drowned Catacomb
Merfolk Sovereign
Captivating Vampire
Goblin Chieftain
Will post second box later...only really disappointing thing was that I pulled two foil rares in the second box too - Overwhelming Stampede and Reverberate (again!!). Sigh.
Cards Missing: Ajani Goldmane, Merfolk Spy, Phantom Beast, Mitotic Slime, Stone Golem
It's disappointing to see this - hopefully not a sign of an unraveling for Salvation. After all, Rumour Mill season is clearly the peak period for traffic to this site, and one would think they'd want to keep the spoiler up to date.
Still missing: Angelic Arbiter, Demon of Death's Gate, Phylactery Lich, Pyretic Ritual, Mitotic Slime and Temple Bell.