There's a reason I voted her for it as I can't actually see her believing that.
I think she's scum (no, her play is not normally like this). Her excuse is that she's trying to play differently, but for a mistake of that magnitude, I don't buy it.
I think he's faking the PR, based solely on the fact that Manders is no stranger to crippling PRs, and would be a complete and total hypocrite if she included such a role in this game, given how much she has complained about said PRs in the past.
I can totally see MH including something like this, even despite the fact that she would be a hypocrite for it.
In fact, that's such a compelling argument to me, that Unvote, Vote Guardman.
This is a very poor vote. You come in here and ignore everything else going on and instead provide this empty vote. The vote is gaming the mod and is against a player who can provide no defense against your accusations. Do not like.
Not quite, Mister Kitty. Point in fact is that I am fully aware that I consider this a scum action, and as such, my awareness of this fact nullifies any possible accusations towards me of it being a scum action.
This. Hurts. My. Head. Let's review, because I can't make sense of what you just said:
You state that you put the second vote on a player in order to see if anyone would you vote you for being the second vote on a player. Someone would vote you because you had put the second vote on a player - an action that YOU consider scummy. That person would be opportunistic mafia for voting you.
I ask you why that person would be considered opportunistic mafia, if he is voting you for committing a scummy action (because you perceive it as such). If he is voting you for a legitimate scumtell, you cannot consider him opportunistic mafia.
Please read the above carefully and provide a clear and simple response that even dumb people like me can understand.
Unless, you are saying that you know that most people don't consider it a legitimate scumtell so anyone voting you for it would likely be opportunistic mafia? I'm having difficulty understanding you.
Perhaps if you had looked past the first page of the games that have been hosted on this site, you would have found Seance Mafia on Page 2.
I actually did, but I guess I missed it.
And yet here you are as somebody who does not believe this to be a legitimate tell. In fact, it seems most of the playerbase of this game does not. So does that answer your question?
Actually not at all... We are talking about YOUR mindset, not everyone else's. The fact that no one else seems to see it as a legitimate tell is irrelevant of the fact that YOU apparently do consider it a legitimate tell and therefore anyone attacking you for being the second vote should be entirely justified in YOUR mind and not be considered "opportunistic mafia". Clear?
Syrenz: It's pretty incidental who is scummy on a speedy wagon and all about justification of the vote. Random votes can actually just be random, but scum can use them hoping something will stick. If RVS votes aren't unvoted when the person gets to L2 then they need some justification at that point for still being on that person. If the serious votes have weak justification then it looks like they're just trying to build on an imaginary wagon. At the time I requested a vote count Emo was correct there were 5 votes but there should have only been 4 (Zajnet had voted another player but had forgotten to unvote and rectified that after Emo's vote count. Emo pointed this out already) That means that there was really only one random vote on me and three serious votes with the only justifications being my "empty question" and apparently a "flourish" denoting it was time for serious business. I think those are trash so pretty much the three people at the end of the wagon deserve more scrutiny. At the time of the vote count I requested it was TIM with the first serious vote on me, Emo with the followup and then you Syrenz with the question and the I like this wagon vote.
How come you are not providing them with more scrutiny if you believe they are deserving of it? It is okay to toss out the "quick wagon is scummy." phrase. But you should back that up by showing how it is scummy. Otherwise it just sounds like you're just trying to discredit your wagon and those on it without anything to back it up.
I can almost certainly tell you that she won't give you much of her past game experience, but I can assure you and anyone else playing that she is far from an idiot and she is very good at this game. (I've made a promise - that I won't break - not to reveal her other history [for her own purposes, that's her choice], but I will state that she has the necessary experience and skill and she should confirm this)
Okay, so that's interesting to me. So we are talking about a player who has played over 20 games (more than me probably) and who you consider "very good at this game." Based on that, how do you read the fact that she believes that the 3rd vote on a RVS wagon is a legitimate scumtell? This sounds like a very newbie/or poggy type opinion to hold. How do you reconcile this behavior with the fact that you consider her "very good" and experienced.
My point is that Blue Electric's play this game (as a whole) does not appear to be coming from a highly experienced and very good player (to my eyes). How do you feel about that? Is Blue Electric's play this game normal BE play in your opinion?
---
I need to think about Blue some more and evaluate his wagon. I will unvote while I do. There's also something else I need to check out.
My experience is not what you should be basing your interpretation of my play on, Mister Kitty. My mindset and motives are.
Please don't tell me how to play mafia.
Playing experience is quite relevant to my interpretation of your play and your apparent mindset and motives. I am experienced enough to know this.
Not necessarily relevant to the vote so much as it is relevant to the sustaining thereof.
I can live with that.
In Seance Mafia, the second random vote on a single person during the RVS was a member of the mafia's vote.
Firstly, I don't see this game anywhere so I'm guessing it was on Mafia scum or somewhere. Secondly, if you want to talk about second random vote on a player, I can provide you with a dozen games with townies placing their votes as second in the RVS. I thought we were talking about the magical third vote here. But this is not important.
The reason I placed my vote on Mister Blue as the second vote (in addition to the fact that I had decided prior to the game that I would be voting him for the reason I stated in my initial vote) was simple - To see if any opportunistic mafia would call me on my vote.
Well if voting a player after someone else in the RVS is considered legitimately scummy (according to you), how would you detect an "opportunistic mafia"? By your logic, anyone attacking you for voting the same person as another would be entirely justified, so this plan sounds kind of flawed, no?
I do not know. Why do they do it?
...
I do not. That is a preposterous assumption, as any grounded member of the town worth their salt would end such shenanigans. ^^
Precisely, my good sir.
Typically, during a wagon, the third vote has been shown to be more indicative of being that of a mafia-aligned player due to an attempt to seemingly moderate their actions. And see above my example wherein additional RVS votes on a single person can be a scumtell.
Agreed about the third vote - yet I do not believe it applies to the RVS (and I can't see how it could - this is my point).
Asking why something is telling of a player being mafia-aligned is arbitrary at best. That would be like asking why fence-sitting is considered a tell. Yes, town can do it, and mafia may do it to appear pensive, but the fact is that they do it, and each player that exhibits behavior that is telling of alignment does so for circumstantial reasons as well as what their own psyche promotes their actions to be.
Not really. Mafia fence-sit because they want to avoid attention and end up on the side of an issue that ends up looking better in retrospect. You can't be content with calling something a tell just because you've heard it somewhere - there has to be a reason.
Quote from BlueElectric »
Because it shouldn't affect anybody's perception of my play. Regardless of how much mafia I have played, that is not relevant to how well I play it.
It is actually. The few exceptions being the Poggy's, Vezok's, and Jordman's of mafia. Newbs acting scummy do not deserve the same level of attention as experienced players acting scummy. And thank you for answering the question finally.
I am beginning to think that EP is right and my discussions with you are more suited to the mafia theory thread than this game, so I will be dropping this line of questioning at the moment and be moving elsewhere.
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@Guardman:
If you truly have a PR, you may go to the lolcat site and create your own lolcats (if MH allows). This will enable you to post at least something more relevant.
Really? It helps me better assess and understand your play. Now answer.
Primarily the fact that I had also voted Mister Blue and that Mister DoG was willing to overlook that and place another vote on him,
So basically this "lack of attention" adds up to the same thing as being the third vote on the wagon and that is the only justification you are providing for your vote, correct?
as well as ignoring the fact that two serious votes (one on him) had happened prior to it.
Again, this was after your vote and is not relevant to your vote.
I believe Mister Pinata answered this for me, Mister Kitty. ^^
No. You will answer this. Here are the questions again:
- Can you provide some examples of scum doing this?
- Why do you think scum would do this?
-Do you think a scum would expect that he could get an accidental quick lynch off something like this?
-Please outline exactly why this is a scumtell.
Please provide a sufficient answer to each of these questions in your next post or expect my vote to appear on you.
I will allow my actions to answer this question, Mister Kitty. ^^
How about you just tell me, eh?
Firstly, overall lack of attention to events up to that point.
What events do you refer to?
Secondly, third Random Voting Stage vote on a person. Is that not a classic tell of mafia behavior?
Is it? Can you provide some examples of scum doing this? Why do you think scum would do this? Do you think a scum would expect that he could get an accidental quick lynch off something like this? Please outline exactly why this is a scumtell.
Thirdly, attempt to continue the Random Voting Stage after two serious votes had been cast.
Okay, I'm cool with this one. But this was after you voted him.
I don't think it's meant to be empty; it just sounds confusingly written. He should rephrase it before we go throwing votes around, especially about something as nit-picky as random voting.
(And when did talking about a specific "random voting stage" become a thing? 'cause it sure as hell wasn't a thing when I was around.)
I seem to recall a formal poll being used in years past, though I'm too lazy to actually go back and check. At any rate, using polls may be a good idea simply for tie-breaking purposes. (I understand the issues behind gimmick accountability, etc. but these are easily solved by using common sense while vote-counting.) Just an idea.
At any rate, congratulations to the winners!
I believe you're right and there was a poll for the three categories that receive trophies (best player, host, newcomer).
Most Creative:[/B]
Syrenz (Ogre). Extremely clever use of items on a never-before-seen scale. Kudos, and I hope to see you around again soon.
Thanks for all the love! Kind of tempted to go work on the script of Ogre Mafia 2 right now. Though I should mention that Skander deserves equal credit for the game creation/concept. Wouldn't have been able to do that by myself.
Syrenz gets an honorable mention given Seppel's testimony; that must have taken a Herculean note-taking effort.
Yes, that was a bit crazy actually. The items, contracts and all the extra goodies were fun additions to the game but a real headache to manage. If I do a sequel, I gotta come up with an easier way to do things...
Thank you.
Please provide content.
I can totally see MH including something like this, even despite the fact that she would be a hypocrite for it.
This is a very poor vote. You come in here and ignore everything else going on and instead provide this empty vote. The vote is gaming the mod and is against a player who can provide no defense against your accusations. Do not like.
Why are you implying this?
This. Hurts. My. Head. Let's review, because I can't make sense of what you just said:
You state that you put the second vote on a player in order to see if anyone would you vote you for being the second vote on a player. Someone would vote you because you had put the second vote on a player - an action that YOU consider scummy. That person would be opportunistic mafia for voting you.
I ask you why that person would be considered opportunistic mafia, if he is voting you for committing a scummy action (because you perceive it as such). If he is voting you for a legitimate scumtell, you cannot consider him opportunistic mafia.
Please read the above carefully and provide a clear and simple response that even dumb people like me can understand.
Unless, you are saying that you know that most people don't consider it a legitimate scumtell so anyone voting you for it would likely be opportunistic mafia? I'm having difficulty understanding you.
I don't like this post. It feels like you're just trying to add some fuel to the wagon without actually joining it.
Do you think this is a legitimate wagon?
Was it you who was the mute pyro in TF2 mafia? I think it was. Why do you always get these annoying PRs? ...
I actually did, but I guess I missed it.
Actually not at all... We are talking about YOUR mindset, not everyone else's. The fact that no one else seems to see it as a legitimate tell is irrelevant of the fact that YOU apparently do consider it a legitimate tell and therefore anyone attacking you for being the second vote should be entirely justified in YOUR mind and not be considered "opportunistic mafia". Clear?
Got it.
How come you are not providing them with more scrutiny if you believe they are deserving of it? It is okay to toss out the "quick wagon is scummy." phrase. But you should back that up by showing how it is scummy. Otherwise it just sounds like you're just trying to discredit your wagon and those on it without anything to back it up.
That's cool, but I was already content on the page before.
Okay, so that's interesting to me. So we are talking about a player who has played over 20 games (more than me probably) and who you consider "very good at this game." Based on that, how do you read the fact that she believes that the 3rd vote on a RVS wagon is a legitimate scumtell? This sounds like a very newbie/or poggy type opinion to hold. How do you reconcile this behavior with the fact that you consider her "very good" and experienced.
My point is that Blue Electric's play this game (as a whole) does not appear to be coming from a highly experienced and very good player (to my eyes). How do you feel about that? Is Blue Electric's play this game normal BE play in your opinion?
---
I need to think about Blue some more and evaluate his wagon. I will unvote while I do. There's also something else I need to check out.
Do you find that suspicious? Who do you find suspicious for it?
Please don't tell me how to play mafia.
Playing experience is quite relevant to my interpretation of your play and your apparent mindset and motives. I am experienced enough to know this.
I can live with that.
Firstly, I don't see this game anywhere so I'm guessing it was on Mafia scum or somewhere. Secondly, if you want to talk about second random vote on a player, I can provide you with a dozen games with townies placing their votes as second in the RVS. I thought we were talking about the magical third vote here. But this is not important.
Well if voting a player after someone else in the RVS is considered legitimately scummy (according to you), how would you detect an "opportunistic mafia"? By your logic, anyone attacking you for voting the same person as another would be entirely justified, so this plan sounds kind of flawed, no?
...
Precisely, my good sir.
Agreed about the third vote - yet I do not believe it applies to the RVS (and I can't see how it could - this is my point).
See:
It is actually. The few exceptions being the Poggy's, Vezok's, and Jordman's of mafia. Newbs acting scummy do not deserve the same level of attention as experienced players acting scummy. And thank you for answering the question finally.
I am beginning to think that EP is right and my discussions with you are more suited to the mafia theory thread than this game, so I will be dropping this line of questioning at the moment and be moving elsewhere.
@Guardman:
If you truly have a PR, you may go to the lolcat site and create your own lolcats (if MH allows). This will enable you to post at least something more relevant.
Really? It helps me better assess and understand your play. Now answer.
So basically this "lack of attention" adds up to the same thing as being the third vote on the wagon and that is the only justification you are providing for your vote, correct?
Again, this was after your vote and is not relevant to your vote.
No. You will answer this. Here are the questions again:
- Can you provide some examples of scum doing this?
- Why do you think scum would do this?
-Do you think a scum would expect that he could get an accidental quick lynch off something like this?
-Please outline exactly why this is a scumtell.
Please provide a sufficient answer to each of these questions in your next post or expect my vote to appear on you.
How about you just tell me, eh?
What events do you refer to?
Is it? Can you provide some examples of scum doing this? Why do you think scum would do this? Do you think a scum would expect that he could get an accidental quick lynch off something like this? Please outline exactly why this is a scumtell.
Okay, I'm cool with this one. But this was after you voted him.
First of all, meow.
Second of all, I have not come anywhere Minineko's level. I don't usually push it past the paw thingy.
Hi, is your name blue?
Paw of Suspicion: Liquidity Crisis
I think you may be barking up the wrong tree.
@BlueElectric:
1) What is your experience level?
2) Why do consider WoD's behavior scummy? (i.e. your reason for voting him)
Do you have any opinion on the matter at hand?
What is the purpose of this post?
I like this wagon.
Unvote, Vote Blue
For WIFOM or OMGUS.
Oh it's been far too long.
I believe you're right and there was a poll for the three categories that receive trophies (best player, host, newcomer).
That's correct.
Thanks for all the love!
Yes, that was a bit crazy actually. The items, contracts and all the extra goodies were fun additions to the game but a real headache to manage. If I do a sequel, I gotta come up with an easier way to do things...