MTG Salvation

I'm not entirely sold on it. If anything it is just another 1 mana interaction piece. Can also be a Child removal outlet. I definitely think I am leaning more on the side of not playing it, but just something worth a consideration with the shift to snow lands. Do you plan on making any updates to your list with all of the changes to mana?

Yay for more Child of Alara discussion! My most current list can be found here: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/uGoWoTNOOUy4vtnIazlnxA I believe it is different than the current version in the comparison sheet.

As far as the general trends, you are right, it just makes sense to have the draw. Since the rule change, I think there should be a bigger focus on ramp and card draw since we are going to be casting CoA from the command zone a lot more. More card draw naturally fits with the ramp since we will have more resources to refill our hands as our ramp cards continue to be decent even later into the game.

Snow Lands and Kaldheim
I'm also on board with switching to snow basics. I already have been looking into the Into the North and Forest finders. The addition of these cards coincides really well with the rule change. I may also add in Skred, but I'm not 100% on it. I'm hoping there ends up being a snow-based card or two worth including outside of Skred but only time will tell. I don't quite know just yet how the mana base will shift, but I still intend to play the thriving lands and definitely plan to cut the panoramas.

Rolling Thunder v. Fireball
I have almost always played Rolling Thunder. The majority of the time I've cast it has been to clear several creatures at once and wipe a board without having to blow up the baby. Fireball is better in those other situations but I don't find myself using the card in those situations as often. We have removal for one-off creatures. Additionally if you're trying to take out something big alongside something smaller, Fireball doesn't do the trick since the damage is split up evenly as opposed to how you want. I don't think they are very different, but the additional flexibility provided by Rolling Thunder at the cost of a single extra red mana (which is less and less of a problem as we tweak the mana base) is something I am okay with.

I will second both of Reaper9889's suggestions. Tortured Existence just lets you recur all your favorites and generates tons of zombies at the low cost of one black mana each. It also works wonders with cards like Grave Scrabbler and Golgari Brownscale (which you're already playing). Reaping the Graves is clutch as compared to Death Denied because each copy will net you a zombie from Tormod, whereas Death Denied will only net you one. Once you have that recursion engine in place, I'd also recommend Gempalm Polluter as a means of dealing large chunks of damage without having to attack with the zombie army you amass.

The other thing I'd recommend are ramp spell and creatures. With all the big creatures you want to play and the extra mana you'll need to support paying for the Halana trigger, ramp seems like a must. I'd recommend Far Wanderings, Kodama's Reach, Farhaven Elf, and Springbloom Druid.

I really like the deck. I'm currently working on a Tormod / Ghost of Ramirez DePietro list myself.

I don't want to stray too far off the Child of Alara topic. I'm not sure how popular the format is, but in the Child of Alara discord I posted a while back, I typically throw out my ideas. All the decks I have are all commons excluding commanders, so I'd love to talk or share ideas. I know Zombie Shakespeare does the same thing, since we've shared ideas with one another previously. I'd definitely recommend posting any decklists here as threads. I haven't done that myself in a while, but I should go through and post all my updated ones here soon. Currently brewing: 1) Tayam 2) Nevinyrral

Edit: all my decks are currently viewable here: https://www.moxfield.com/users/bfine70

So ZNR cards I'm adding:
1) Cleansing Wildfire - replacing Geomancer's Gambit. Same thing just one mana cheaper
2) Deliberate - Replacing the Whispers of the Muse/Ponder spot

Maybe - Feed the Swarm

Anything else catch anyone's eye?

Question for everyone: How often do you go for the combo win? I feel like I end up doing it too frequently and I think I want to cut it from the deck (which is just cutting Cloud of Faeries). With the option of not blowing up Child when it dies no longer available, you can't just keep your flicker guys out there all the time if you're going for the combo. Just want to know what everyone else does and if I was the only person considering not having access to the combo.

I'm super excited for Crib Swap in Child of Alara. That's been one of the few effects missing from the deck that I've really wanted. Everflowing Chalice, Abrad, and Conclave Naturalists are all cards I plan on finding places for in various lists. I also think Magnifying Glass will be good for the non-blue grindier decks.

I'm pretty excited for the Crib Swap downshift from Double Masters. I've wanted this effect in the deck for a good while, which is why I've been considering playing Scour from Existence again. Anyone else considering playing it or any of the other downshifts? PS. You can even tutor for it w/ Vedalken Aethermage.

I think I would like them in Nin since recursion is a lot harder to combine in the UR color combination. Esper I'd only see myself running Devious Cover-Up.

I like both cards but I feel like I'd only want them in decks that aren't running black or green. The amount of recursion available in black makes these pretty unnecessary, or at least Clear the Mind. Green also has enough recursion if you have the Ghostly Flicker endgame that Clear the Mind isn't needed. Devious Cover-Up is solid enough that I'd likely run it anyway in a large percentage of decks regardless of the supporting colors, but I'd only run Clear the Mind if I am really hurting for recursion. What decks have you been running them in besides Merieke?

Commander's Sphere: I like it. I used to run it and then completely spaced it. It probably deserves a home now. I don't think I'd replace Darksteel Ingot with it, but I will probably run both.

Wretched Gryff: I like this card, and the 3/4 body is very relevant. I may cut Altar's Reap for it.

Impulse: I ran it a few years back in a version of this list. I feel like I typically want quantity when it comes to card draw, but maybe it is worth revisiting. I cut Ponder because I didn't like that it just gave me one card and didn't do much for filtering. I feel like Impulse may feel the same for me.

I think your instincts on Spoils of Victory and Deprive are right. I want to keep them in the maybeboard as Wizards seems to be more open to giving us common lands. I picked Boilerworks over Rot Farm because I just want more blue mana late game. Yes, we want green mana early, but with the Thriving lands, I think I want my bouncelands to be giving me blue mana. I don't think there is that much of a difference and I could see myself switching back.

Alright, I've finally gotten around to updating my list as well. Still working on the last few slots but here is where it currently sits:


With the changes to the Command Zone + Graveyard interaction, the deck wants to have a lot more velocity than the previous iterations had. We don't have to buy time looking for recursion spells like previous builds. This means I want to be ramping more, having more mana untapped, and drawing a lot more cards. Here's a little breakdown of some of the card selections.

Altar's Reap, Perilous Research, and Village Rites: I was always a fan of Altar's Reap. Now we get an even cheaper one. I know people have had different numbers of the previous two in the past, but I think now more than ever I want every copy of the effect possible so that I can draw more action and keep my hand full. This make it easier to keep hitting land drops and hit the few recursion spells we do run. No longer do we need a sacrifice outlet + recursion spell at all times, so I'd much prefer my sac outlets draw me cards.

Coiling Oracle: I'm throwing this in over Augur of Bolas. I've always had mixed feelings about Augur, but now that ramp is that much more important, I'd rather play a 2-drop that guarantees that I am ramping or cantripping. You could still probably fit it in the deck, but I'm just not a fan.

Whispers of the Muse and Rain of Revelation: Call me old-fashioned, but I prefer drawing my cards at instant speed. I cut Ponder to make room for Whispers and opted for Rain over Unexplained Vision and Foresee. This decision mainly comes down to preference. The scry on Vision is pretty neat, and may convince me to make the switch at some point, but for now, I want to keep some of my more expensive card draw spells to be instants.

Thriving Isle & co.: These are the big reason it took me a bit to come up with a list. As we have discussed in the last few messages, these allow our mana to be much faster. I've cut all the Rupture Spire-type lands, the Khans lifegain lands, and some of the bouncelands to make room for the full set of these and the panoramas. We get to spend a lot less time waiting to set up our mana thanks to these beauties and I am excited to see how other people make the manabase with them in the mix.

Mystic Sanctuary: Speaking of changes to the manabase, this was a card I previously included but never really tweaked the manabse to accommodate. Now that there aren't the slow lands, we can add the full panorama cycle to make sure we hit the three islands minimum to make this function. The panoramas can also help fuel threshold on an early Far Wanderings.

Opal Palace: This is another card that gets much better with the rule change. Previously, I would only ever cast Child from the command zone twice, maybe three times, in a given game. Now it is a little more likely that we can cast it from the command zone and the extra bit of ramp means that the added cost of filtering the mana isn't so taxing.

The Maybeboard

There's a number of card spots I still feel uncertain about. Unmake, Arcane Denial, Dream Fracture, Geomancer's Gambit, Overrule, and Kaya's Ghostform are the ones that come to mind. Here are just a few of the options I'm considering swapping in to potentially claim those spots.

Blue Elemental Blast / Hydroblast: I always love the blasts in this deck. I used to run 1/1 split of red and blue ones but opted for double red blasts due to increases in countermagic. I think being able to find one with Merchant Scroll is pretty important and I can see myself going back to the 1/1 split or throwing in one of the blue ones as well.

Deprive: This card got my attention thanks to Pauper and how it interacts with Mystic Sanctuary. We only have a few lands that are great to return now, but I think it is worth taking a look at as an extra way to squeeze value out of Mortuary Mire, Bojuka Bog, and Mystic Sanctuary. We can even use it to reset our Thriving lands.

Scour from Existence and Wrecking Ball: These are just considerations since I'm not sold on Unmake and Geomancer's Gambit. Unmake has always felt weird to me because of the awkward mana cost, although the Thriving lands may very well ease this awkwardness. Wrecking Ball provides some more adaptability and is an instant (since I've already mention how much I prefer those). It doesn't replace itself like Gambit, but with the increase in card draw in the deck, I may just opt for the instant.

Spoils of Victory: After urdjur's inclusion of Farseek, I wanted to look for cards that can put Sanctuary into play untapped. This appears to be the only one outside of Crop Rotation and Reap and Sow. It's a slower Rampant Growth in every other scenario, unless we decide to also include Witch's Cottage, but if I decide I'm really looking for that effect, or even just another ramp spell, I imagine this will be the first one in.

I like most of your changes. I'm still messing with my build myself. I will likely be playing Village Rites somewhere, just not sure where. The mana is going to take the most work to nail down, especially with the thrive lands. I know you really like the Griffin, but I'm still not sold on it. Dimir House Guard is the least exciting of the tutors based on its limited targets and I think I'd rather run another recursion spell like Reaping the Graves over the Griffin or just running back Shade's Form (but also not big on those because no way to rebuy those later). How do you feel about Unwind and Rewind now that you're lower on the number of bouncelands?

So the new rule announcement about death triggers happening regardless of whether the commander goes to the graveyard or command zone is a game changer. How do people feel about this and removing some recursion? I still like the general plan, but it isn't too bad ponying up the extra mana later in the game.

So any thoughts on the new set. Only cards that remotely caught my eye were Final Death and Memory Drain. Both seem like improved versions of cards other people have played that I personally have never been a fan of. I never really liked Unmake because of the awkward mana cost, but Final Death solves that issue albeit at a higher cost, something I probably don't mind. Memory Drain just seems like a different Rewind. I get the cool bounceland interactions with Rewind but never though that it warranted a spot in the deck. This provides more value in my opinion but likely still won't make the cut. Anyone else interested in any specific cards or are more interested in these two than I am?