MTG Salvation

I agree w/ Vivienne on most of those points. Every time I go to Augur, it ends up bricking the first 3-4 times I cast it and I switch back. You're finally convincing me on Dream Fracture, since we have more card draw now. Current changes:

- Impulse
- Dream Fracture
- Augur of Bolas
+ Behold the Multiverse
+ Psychic Strike (maybe Deprive later)
+ Sea Gate Oracle

I am also strongly considering switching Tranquil Thicket to the UG or GB Campus and then changed Grim Discovery to something else as well. Maybe I cut Coiling Oracle for Spore Frog and play Disturbed Burial / Grim Harvest and aim for the grind more often than not.

EDIT: I also like the new card Resculpt in place of Crib Swap

Here's my list but I feel like more changes are soon to come.

https://www.moxfield.com/decks/uGoWoTNOOUy4vtnIazlnxA

I like the Land Grant change to the manabase and how it works alongside the Into the North/Farseek package. Looking forward to better and better lands going forward since I still want to cut the panoramas but I'll give them another go. I think the only different I noticde mana wise was that I am playing Simic Growth Chamber over Opal Palace simply because I don't typically see myself wanting to fork over the extra mana for Child later in the game, he's already a sufficiently large beatstick for me.

I only have a few other thoughts on your changes. I am happy to see you being open to shifting towards an overall lower mana curve. I think it makes the early and late game much smoother since you can always have interaction up, and typically a few pieces. I'm not so sold on the Fleshbag Marauder and Fiery Cannonad. Relying on the commander is just what the deck does and I'm not typically worried about the cards that can die to Cannonade if I'm not able to play Child. Fleshbag just seems like a worse version of any other kill spell, the body won't ever stick around and if you want an edict effect, I'd argue you're better off just playing an edict. I'll stick to only Sidisi's Faithful as my creature sacrifice outlet.

I can't ever see myself dropping the double recursion wizard package. That's what made the deck so fun to me originally and I've multiple times considered cutting Cloud of Faeries and centering more around the controlling aspect and Flicker softlock. I want to like Deprive, and I think in a 1v1-centered build it is perfect. In multiplayer it seems way less appealing to me. Flood of Recollection is a card I was excited to try when it was first downshifted, but I think if I want a Regrowth-esque card, I'd go with Reclaim. I'm not sure the deck wants that at the moment, but if you're cutting a recursion wizard, it seems like the next best thing.

I did decide to try out some of the cards you mentioned I've previously given up on. Here is my next out / experimenting with list as well as the list of other cards I'm considering to replace them.

Iffy
- Augur of Bolas
- Coiling Oracle
- Rolling Thunder
- Impulse

Next Up
- Behold the Multiverse
- Crib Swap
- Rain of Revelation
- Reclaim

I like the idea of Grim Discovery. I haven't been the biggest fan of Grim Harvest with the changes. The only time I love it is when I am doing Sidisi's Faithful shenanigans. Pulse and Treefolk are just so meh. Maybe with Mirage fetches, but I don't think I'd even want them then.

Land Grant is a very interesting idea. I haven't been playing Wellspring already but I could be persuaded to try Land Grant. What is your exact manabase using that. I'm curious which Island snow duals you would also run, if any others.

Dispel and Behold have the same type of reasoning. I want the deck to shift more towards very cheap answers due to the fact that the groups I'm playing with lean more toward the competitive side of things. Dispel often wins a lot of counter wars. I think the split on those will always just vary based on playgroup which means there isn't a "right" answer. I frequently go back and forth on BEB v. the second of Pyroblast/REB.

Behold is also good because it is a cheap draw spell. I am typically foretelling it very early on turns where I've cast some type of ramp and don't need to worry about leaving up answers. The ab ility to toss it out there and get a 2 mana solid draw spell is good. It may not stay long term, but so far I've been happy with it. I have never like Foresee, but I think it mainly boils down to the fact that is isn't an instant. I don't mind paying 4 mana for a draw spell, but I don't want to be tapped down for an entire turn cycle to do so. I've also considered Rain of Revelation multiple times in the same slot.

I had the same thought about Rolling Thunder right after I submitted my post but then didn't remember if I ever went back and mentioned that.

I like most of your thoughts. I originally was leaning on the green snow lands but cut them for the reasons you've already mentioned. I guess the only place I disagree is how high you are on the panoramas. I'm not particularly keen on them myself, but I think it is just because they seem to be such a large step down from the rest of the manabase. I do like running 4 Karoos for the simple fact of being able to reset the Thriving Lands and the spell lands more often in the later parts of games.
I am probably going to run Tranquil Thicket again, I just wish we had some type of incidental land recursion. The only thing I am currently trying to figure out is the split of snow duals and potentially panoramas.

As for other parts of the deck, I realized I missed some questions. I love Dispel. It has been an all star. I also think Behold the Multiverse is very strong. Double U is not hard to get for Faerie Trickery and Dream Fracture and I don't like the idea of Psychic Strike potentially providing a benefit (I think the cost of them drawing a card is worth it to cantrip ourselves). The only card I may cut is Rolling Thunder because I use it less and less.

P.S. With the shift to snow lands, I propose the alternative name for the deck as Ice, Ice, Baby

Here's my current draft of the deck post-KLD: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/uGoWoTNOOUy4vtnIazlnxA

I'm not sure on the basic land counts yet, but I think it is close to where I will leave it. The Considering list has a few cards I'm debating still. The only other thing I am considering mana-wise is adding Witch's Cottage over Mortuary Mire for the fact that it can be tutored up with Farseek, but messing with the mana to make that work doesn't necessarily seem worth it. TBD.

As for card inclusions, you are right, it does depend a lot on how the group approaches Child. Having been through the same old song and dance before, my experience tends to be getting ganged up on fairly early, which is why those discard spells came to mind. Somebody in the Discord server brought up the card Mind Swords as well, which got me thinking about those types of cards. I plan on including Cruelty for now to try it out. I cut Crib Swap for it. I think if I wasn't in a group that auto-targeted the big bad baby, I would opt against the discard. As is, I think it is worth a shot, and I am trying to shift to a lot more cheap spells.

Into the North is the only ramp card that cares about it as far as I know, so I guess that's why I'd rather run the Thriving Lands. As it stands, I've cut the panoramas for the 4 forest duals and I'm debating on whether to make the last spot the UB snow dual or Golgari Rot Farm/Azorius Chancery for the 4th bounceland. I may opt to cut Opal Palace to play both.

As for Forsake the Worldly, I cycle it pretty frequently which I like. I want all my answers to be instant speed, but that comes down to preference. Angelic Purge was very exciting to me when it first came out, but then Forsake just fit what I was looking for better. My main target with Forsake is typically some God that somebody plays. Stuff like Purphoros can often be problematic the same turn it comes down, so having instant speed removal for it then is fairly important. That isn't to say we don't have counters and bounce, but I'd rather have Forsake too. Crib Swap has the same argument. Indestructible creatures don't come up all of the time, but when they do, I prefer instant interaction which is why I am out on Ravenform. Crib Swap is definitely a card I can see not always being in the list.

What are everyone's thoughts on Tasigur's Cruelty and Syphon Mind. I've been debating taking a more aggressive approach to the deck and eschewing some of the silver bullet answers for more redundancy and "mean" cards like those. I remember having Syphon in the deck long ago, but it has been a while.

I don't like Shimmerdrift Vale. I'd rather run any of the Thriving Lands over it since they do the same thing but tap for a second color. Sure, it isn't fetchable, but if you have snow basics and duals, you will be able to fetch any color you need. I'm on the fence on Ravenform. We have Crib Swap already and I think the sorcery speed of Ravenform hurts it a lot. I plan on working on an updated list this weekend w/ new cards.

I'm not entirely sold on it. If anything it is just another 1 mana interaction piece. Can also be a Child removal outlet. I definitely think I am leaning more on the side of not playing it, but just something worth a consideration with the shift to snow lands. Do you plan on making any updates to your list with all of the changes to mana?

Yay for more Child of Alara discussion! My most current list can be found here: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/uGoWoTNOOUy4vtnIazlnxA I believe it is different than the current version in the comparison sheet.

As far as the general trends, you are right, it just makes sense to have the draw. Since the rule change, I think there should be a bigger focus on ramp and card draw since we are going to be casting CoA from the command zone a lot more. More card draw naturally fits with the ramp since we will have more resources to refill our hands as our ramp cards continue to be decent even later into the game.

Snow Lands and Kaldheim
I'm also on board with switching to snow basics. I already have been looking into the Into the North and Forest finders. The addition of these cards coincides really well with the rule change. I may also add in Skred, but I'm not 100% on it. I'm hoping there ends up being a snow-based card or two worth including outside of Skred but only time will tell. I don't quite know just yet how the mana base will shift, but I still intend to play the thriving lands and definitely plan to cut the panoramas.

Rolling Thunder v. Fireball
I have almost always played Rolling Thunder. The majority of the time I've cast it has been to clear several creatures at once and wipe a board without having to blow up the baby. Fireball is better in those other situations but I don't find myself using the card in those situations as often. We have removal for one-off creatures. Additionally if you're trying to take out something big alongside something smaller, Fireball doesn't do the trick since the damage is split up evenly as opposed to how you want. I don't think they are very different, but the additional flexibility provided by Rolling Thunder at the cost of a single extra red mana (which is less and less of a problem as we tweak the mana base) is something I am okay with.

I will second both of Reaper9889's suggestions. Tortured Existence just lets you recur all your favorites and generates tons of zombies at the low cost of one black mana each. It also works wonders with cards like Grave Scrabbler and Golgari Brownscale (which you're already playing). Reaping the Graves is clutch as compared to Death Denied because each copy will net you a zombie from Tormod, whereas Death Denied will only net you one. Once you have that recursion engine in place, I'd also recommend Gempalm Polluter as a means of dealing large chunks of damage without having to attack with the zombie army you amass.

The other thing I'd recommend are ramp spell and creatures. With all the big creatures you want to play and the extra mana you'll need to support paying for the Halana trigger, ramp seems like a must. I'd recommend Far Wanderings, Kodama's Reach, Farhaven Elf, and Springbloom Druid.

I really like the deck. I'm currently working on a Tormod / Ghost of Ramirez DePietro list myself.

I don't want to stray too far off the Child of Alara topic. I'm not sure how popular the format is, but in the Child of Alara discord I posted a while back, I typically throw out my ideas. All the decks I have are all commons excluding commanders, so I'd love to talk or share ideas. I know Zombie Shakespeare does the same thing, since we've shared ideas with one another previously. I'd definitely recommend posting any decklists here as threads. I haven't done that myself in a while, but I should go through and post all my updated ones here soon. Currently brewing: 1) Tayam 2) Nevinyrral

Edit: all my decks are currently viewable here: https://www.moxfield.com/users/bfine70

So ZNR cards I'm adding:
1) Cleansing Wildfire - replacing Geomancer's Gambit. Same thing just one mana cheaper
2) Deliberate - Replacing the Whispers of the Muse/Ponder spot

Maybe - Feed the Swarm

Anything else catch anyone's eye?

Question for everyone: How often do you go for the combo win? I feel like I end up doing it too frequently and I think I want to cut it from the deck (which is just cutting Cloud of Faeries). With the option of not blowing up Child when it dies no longer available, you can't just keep your flicker guys out there all the time if you're going for the combo. Just want to know what everyone else does and if I was the only person considering not having access to the combo.

I'm super excited for Crib Swap in Child of Alara. That's been one of the few effects missing from the deck that I've really wanted. Everflowing Chalice, Abrad, and Conclave Naturalists are all cards I plan on finding places for in various lists. I also think Magnifying Glass will be good for the non-blue grindier decks.

I'm pretty excited for the Crib Swap downshift from Double Masters. I've wanted this effect in the deck for a good while, which is why I've been considering playing Scour from Existence again. Anyone else considering playing it or any of the other downshifts? PS. You can even tutor for it w/ Vedalken Aethermage.