This ad is probably nsfw. I think madding once mentioned it and a screencap was requested.
I was just about to mention that. I was logged on at work yesterday and it popped up. Luckily the computer I was on was just barely out of frame of the live camera in our newsroom
First, as has been discussed in the past, a forum will be created where gutter members and members of the general staff can discuss issues that relate to both. It will be a place that issues that gutter members have with individual staff members or moderator actions that have already passed through the formal appeal process will be discussed in this forum.
It will still be expected that the standard process of posting on a moderator's Helpdesk/sending a PM followed by petitioning an Administrator will be adheared to prior to any discussion taking place in this new forum.
1. Consider an incident like the one which supposedly caused this. PosterX, who is not a gutter member, gets infracted by ModY. GutteriteA thinks this was inappropriate and, following the new system, posts a thread in your new subforum. A productive discussion (hopefully!) ensues.
Do you really think it's a good thing that PosterX, whose action started this whole incident, is not allowed to participate or even know about this discussion?
PosterX still has every right to appeal whatever action has been taken against him by ModY. What this forum will allow is for gutter members to have a place to discuss their stance on that action without hijacking PosterX's appeal to forward their own stance on the issue.
2. A mod does something which many people find objectionable. GutteriteB starts a thread in the new sub forum about it. PosterZ, who is not a member, starts a thread about it in CI. Do you really think it's productive to have two parallel threads about the same issue for two different parts of the community?
In a case like this, the one thread ini CI would probably be enough and discussion would be forwarded to that thread. It would probably depend on the specifics of the issue, though.
3. PosterQ, who is not a member of the gutter, starts a thread in CI or posts something in a helpdeck taking issue with some mod action. GutteriteC agrees (or disagrees) with PosterQ's concern. Is he supposed to reply to PosterQ or start a new thread in the private subforum?
See above.
In summary, I think there are some definite negative implications in splitting the community like this. When important issues are discussed, you risk having less thorough and useful discussions. You risk the staff getting a biased view of the community's thoughts on the issue, as they are only seeing comments from Gutter members.
Opinions of gutter members will weigh no more heavily on staff decisions than non-gutter members. As gutter members have a lengthy history of disagreeing with staff decisions and with staff members themselves, this gives them a place to discuss such things without the aggressive Helpdesk/CI tactics some gutter members have resorted to in the past.
To reiterate some points made previously by current and former members of the Admin team, the gutter has been on it's "last straw" for quite a while. There have been several instances, not just during my tenure as an Admin, but nearly as long as I've been a moderator, where the gutter was nearly shut down. The gutter has a pile full of "last straws" laying around the Mod Lounge archive.
For all those claiming that this is some kind of punishment for voicing complaints about the moderation staff, I can assure you that's not the case. I'm not going to say that the way gutter members have gone about voicing their complaints at times wasn't a topic of discussion in the lead up to this decision, but as I've already stated, this has been a long time coming and was not the result of one particular incident.
If you have a valid complaint you would like addressed, there are plenty of ways of making your voice heard. Losing the ability to spam, curse, and flame other users with impunity doesn't impede that in the slightest.
The pertinent part of the announcement is here:
It will still be expected that the standard process of posting on a moderator's Helpdesk/sending a PM followed by petitioning an Administrator will be adheared to prior to any discussion taking place in this new forum.
PosterX still has every right to appeal whatever action has been taken against him by ModY. What this forum will allow is for gutter members to have a place to discuss their stance on that action without hijacking PosterX's appeal to forward their own stance on the issue.
In a case like this, the one thread ini CI would probably be enough and discussion would be forwarded to that thread. It would probably depend on the specifics of the issue, though.
See above.
Opinions of gutter members will weigh no more heavily on staff decisions than non-gutter members. As gutter members have a lengthy history of disagreeing with staff decisions and with staff members themselves, this gives them a place to discuss such things without the aggressive Helpdesk/CI tactics some gutter members have resorted to in the past.
For all those claiming that this is some kind of punishment for voicing complaints about the moderation staff, I can assure you that's not the case. I'm not going to say that the way gutter members have gone about voicing their complaints at times wasn't a topic of discussion in the lead up to this decision, but as I've already stated, this has been a long time coming and was not the result of one particular incident.
If you have a valid complaint you would like addressed, there are plenty of ways of making your voice heard. Losing the ability to spam, curse, and flame other users with impunity doesn't impede that in the slightest.