I will start by saying that I, like most people in this thread, have not read the thread in its entirety. I have read about 30 pages of it. Throughout those pages, what has become very clear to me is that most people simply do not know what they are talking about. For slightly more credibility I will add that I have 4 Modern decks put together currently in paper: URg Twin, Spirit Jund, BUG Infect, and Affinity. I have played Infect and WUR Delver (preRTR) on MODO and moneyed in DE with both of them. This is all to say that I have a very good knowledge of the format and the various decks.
On the bannings:
First let me address BBE. I do not think many people were surprised by this one. At one point a few months ago I said this one would not be banned. I just didn't think they would pull that trigger. I think it is good for the format. I am very surprised by the people saying it was a bad ban. Many of the reasons people use to support their theory of this being a bad ban is that the ban does nothing to stop Jund from dominating. The truth is, BBE was the best card in the deck. It is what made an otherwise simple Rock deck splash for red. Lightning Bolt being arguably the best removal in the format also pushed the deck into red, but mostly it was the 2 for 1 that is BBE.
What this ban does is create diversity in the format. How does it do that? Simple. It breaks up the deck into multiple Rock decks. The combination of targeted discard, removal, and beaters (Tarmogoyf), goes back a long way. Eva Green was once a powerful BG Rock deck in Legacy that played all of these things. Jund will be continued on in the forms of BG, BUG, BGR, and BGW. My guess is that there will be a Gifts Rock, Doran Rock, and Jund (no elf) just like in old extended. These versions were obsolete because none of them could trump a BBE. If you can't beat them, join them. The Rock (which is all Jund ever was) will still be good, just in different forms. To those complaining about their recent purchase of Jund Staples (Goyf, Bob) please stop. Realize that you now own some of the best cards in Magic's history. Now you can reasonably play multiple decks with them.
On Seething Song:
I told my brother a few weeks ago they might ban this. My reasoning was this: Aggro decks cannot race storm because it is too fast. No one would invest time into a deck that simply loses to a popular archtype 80% of the time. Storm being as fast as it was was keeping aggro out of the format. They had to slow it down. The way to do that is to ban the best accel. I will admit I swore out loud when I saw this ban because I was pretty shocked. I think that it was correct. Many people have said that this killed Storm. I'm not sure. There are storm players who plan to keep playing storm. Don't forget to board for it or you may be sorry.
So why was Song banned and not something else? The most popular cards that people have said should be banned instead in this thread are Goblin Electromancer and Past in Flames. I think that these bannings would not have had the same effect.
Electromancer allows for fast kills. But, he dies to removal. The same cannot be said about Seething Song. Not all versions play Electromancer.
Past in Flames is very powerful, allowing the deck to go off much easier. However, it can be hated out by graveyard hate. The same cannot be said for Seething Song. Not all versions play 4 copies of Past In Flames.
As for Storm's speed, can Storm win turn 3? The answer is yes, absolutely yes. How do I know? Imagine you are on the draw against Storm playing Infect. Turn 2 you slam down your Blighted Agent and look at the 3 Pump spells your hand. You are going to kill them on turn 3, so you pass the turn. They untap, draw, and play Gitaxian Probe for 2 life. They see your hand and realize that they will lose on your 3rd turn. They have 2 options: Kill or be killed. So they attempt to go off.
I have lost this way numerous times. I have lost this way to a turn 2 Pyromancer Ascension. I have lost this way to a turn 2 Goblin Electromancer. I have lost this way when they have only cast cantrips up until that point. I have lost this way when they cast Seething Song. I have lost this way when they don't cast Seething Song. I have lost this way to Epic Experiment. They have a lot of turn 3 kills. I mean a lot. I know this because I have died that way. Banning Seething Song just takes away the best way to do that. I do not know how good the deck will be moving forward, but I am sure it will still be playable. It will probably be more reliant on Pyromancer's Ascension.
I think they were very sure they wanted to ban Bloodbraid Elf. This will decrease the amount of Jund like decks. Which in turn will decrease the number of discard spells and make Storm way better in the metagame. Storm would have probably become the best deck, although since it is hard to play, not an extremely popular deck. Not to Jund levels at least. Still aggro would not have found a place in the metagame.
I believe more than anything Bloodbraid Elf kept control out of the meta and fast combo kept aggro out. Counterspells were not efficient because they couldn't answer everything. Aggro could not race or interact with combo decks.
What this means going forward: We now have a good reason to believe that most the BL is pretty cemented. Cards like Bitterblossom, Jace, and Stoneforge Mystic are not coming off. That is what Bloodbraid Elf taught us. The turn 4 rule will be strictly implemented. That is what Seething Song taught us.
Possible Future Bans:
As an Infect player I know how fast the deck is. I don't think any other deck can kill turn 2. I expect Glistener Elf to leave us within a year. Even if they kill it, now they just have one less removal for the 2 drop. It will not kill infect, and it will still be playable.
Something from Eggs. If not for breaking the turn 3 rule (this deck does fizzles sometimes), then for taking way, WAY too long. It is not fun to play against. People not having fun hurts a format.
Possible cards to come off the banlist:
Ancestral Vision: Doubtful. Control will most likely not need it now.
Glimpse of Nature: Very small possibility. It probably takes away design space for creatures.
Golgari Grave-Troll: Maybe. It would be the best dredger and the wincon of the deck. Somewhat like Jace being the card draw and wincon, but it dies to removal. So maybe.
Green Sun's Zenith: Most likely not. They want diversity. I think this inhibits that.
Ponder and Preordain: I think one of these cards will come off the BL. As of right now there is not a good cantrip. I think that is strange for an eternal format. Preordain is not as good as Ponder (4>3). Either that, or they print a new cantrip better that Sleight of Hand and Serum Visions.
Wild Nacatl: If aggro decks become relevant then maybe. But with Kird Ape and Loam Lion, I do not think it will happen.
To the people saying this killed modern: I love this format dearly and many other people do too. New players will no longer be scared off by Big Bad Jund from when they started playing or by super fast combo.
To the people saying they are quitting modern: I pity you. You are really going to miss out. I will welcome you back when you are ready.
To the people saying that Wizards is banhappy: Have faith. Don't jump to conclusions, this is the first ban in a year.
To my fellow modern players: Feels good doesn't it?
I really think these bannings will be good down the road.
BBE hates out any control deck that is trying to one for one you to death. Counterspells are suddenly better.
Storm makes playing an aggro deck a bad idea. If you can't race them you lose, and even a Nacatl doesn't kill by turn 3, so the only aggro deck that was viable was affinity. I know a lot of times I have looked at a decklist and thought that there was no way this deck could beat storm. So the long term effects of this will be very beneficial. It will make newer players happy about the format.
I was a member of the unban crowd. I wanted Jace, Bitterblossom, and Ancestral off the BL. Now I don't think they will ever come off, but it suddenly doesn't bother me. The format will be much more interactive now. It will be weird to see what happens this weekend.
I really think these bannings will be good down the road.
BBE hates out any control deck that is trying to one for one you to death. Counterspells are suddenly better.
Storm makes playing an aggro deck a bad idea. If you can't race them you lose, and even a Nacatl doesn't kill by turn 3, so the only aggro deck that was viable was affinity. I know a lot of times I have looked at a decklist and thought that there was no way this deck could beat storm. So the long term effects of this will be very beneficial. It will make newer players happy about the format.
I was a member of the unban crowd. I wanted Jace, Bitterblossom, and Ancestral off the BL. Now I don't think they will ever come off, but it suddenly doesn't bother me. The format will be much more interactive now. It will be weird to see what happens this weekend.
I agree it makes it harder but not a lot harder. Blighted Agent is impervious and Glistener Elf can kill them first if we are on the play and they don't have shaman. But if they play shaman turn one then we didn't get IoK'd. Blessing also got better like you said. There are ways around it.
The rest of the meta will adapt to this change and it will fall out of favor. At least I think it will. Things haven't really shaken out yet to their full extent. New decks are still emerging.
4
On the bannings:
First let me address BBE. I do not think many people were surprised by this one. At one point a few months ago I said this one would not be banned. I just didn't think they would pull that trigger. I think it is good for the format. I am very surprised by the people saying it was a bad ban. Many of the reasons people use to support their theory of this being a bad ban is that the ban does nothing to stop Jund from dominating. The truth is, BBE was the best card in the deck. It is what made an otherwise simple Rock deck splash for red. Lightning Bolt being arguably the best removal in the format also pushed the deck into red, but mostly it was the 2 for 1 that is BBE.
What this ban does is create diversity in the format. How does it do that? Simple. It breaks up the deck into multiple Rock decks. The combination of targeted discard, removal, and beaters (Tarmogoyf), goes back a long way. Eva Green was once a powerful BG Rock deck in Legacy that played all of these things. Jund will be continued on in the forms of BG, BUG, BGR, and BGW. My guess is that there will be a Gifts Rock, Doran Rock, and Jund (no elf) just like in old extended. These versions were obsolete because none of them could trump a BBE. If you can't beat them, join them. The Rock (which is all Jund ever was) will still be good, just in different forms. To those complaining about their recent purchase of Jund Staples (Goyf, Bob) please stop. Realize that you now own some of the best cards in Magic's history. Now you can reasonably play multiple decks with them.
On Seething Song:
I told my brother a few weeks ago they might ban this. My reasoning was this: Aggro decks cannot race storm because it is too fast. No one would invest time into a deck that simply loses to a popular archtype 80% of the time. Storm being as fast as it was was keeping aggro out of the format. They had to slow it down. The way to do that is to ban the best accel. I will admit I swore out loud when I saw this ban because I was pretty shocked. I think that it was correct. Many people have said that this killed Storm. I'm not sure. There are storm players who plan to keep playing storm. Don't forget to board for it or you may be sorry.
So why was Song banned and not something else? The most popular cards that people have said should be banned instead in this thread are Goblin Electromancer and Past in Flames. I think that these bannings would not have had the same effect.
Electromancer allows for fast kills. But, he dies to removal. The same cannot be said about Seething Song. Not all versions play Electromancer.
Past in Flames is very powerful, allowing the deck to go off much easier. However, it can be hated out by graveyard hate. The same cannot be said for Seething Song. Not all versions play 4 copies of Past In Flames.
As for Storm's speed, can Storm win turn 3? The answer is yes, absolutely yes. How do I know? Imagine you are on the draw against Storm playing Infect. Turn 2 you slam down your Blighted Agent and look at the 3 Pump spells your hand. You are going to kill them on turn 3, so you pass the turn. They untap, draw, and play Gitaxian Probe for 2 life. They see your hand and realize that they will lose on your 3rd turn. They have 2 options: Kill or be killed. So they attempt to go off.
I have lost this way numerous times. I have lost this way to a turn 2 Pyromancer Ascension. I have lost this way to a turn 2 Goblin Electromancer. I have lost this way when they have only cast cantrips up until that point. I have lost this way when they cast Seething Song. I have lost this way when they don't cast Seething Song. I have lost this way to Epic Experiment. They have a lot of turn 3 kills. I mean a lot. I know this because I have died that way. Banning Seething Song just takes away the best way to do that. I do not know how good the deck will be moving forward, but I am sure it will still be playable. It will probably be more reliant on Pyromancer's Ascension.
I think they were very sure they wanted to ban Bloodbraid Elf. This will decrease the amount of Jund like decks. Which in turn will decrease the number of discard spells and make Storm way better in the metagame. Storm would have probably become the best deck, although since it is hard to play, not an extremely popular deck. Not to Jund levels at least. Still aggro would not have found a place in the metagame.
I believe more than anything Bloodbraid Elf kept control out of the meta and fast combo kept aggro out. Counterspells were not efficient because they couldn't answer everything. Aggro could not race or interact with combo decks.
What this means going forward: We now have a good reason to believe that most the BL is pretty cemented. Cards like Bitterblossom, Jace, and Stoneforge Mystic are not coming off. That is what Bloodbraid Elf taught us. The turn 4 rule will be strictly implemented. That is what Seething Song taught us.
Possible Future Bans:
As an Infect player I know how fast the deck is. I don't think any other deck can kill turn 2. I expect Glistener Elf to leave us within a year. Even if they kill it, now they just have one less removal for the 2 drop. It will not kill infect, and it will still be playable.
Something from Eggs. If not for breaking the turn 3 rule (this deck does fizzles sometimes), then for taking way, WAY too long. It is not fun to play against. People not having fun hurts a format.
Possible cards to come off the banlist:
Ancestral Vision: Doubtful. Control will most likely not need it now.
Glimpse of Nature: Very small possibility. It probably takes away design space for creatures.
Golgari Grave-Troll: Maybe. It would be the best dredger and the wincon of the deck. Somewhat like Jace being the card draw and wincon, but it dies to removal. So maybe.
Green Sun's Zenith: Most likely not. They want diversity. I think this inhibits that.
Ponder and Preordain: I think one of these cards will come off the BL. As of right now there is not a good cantrip. I think that is strange for an eternal format. Preordain is not as good as Ponder (4>3). Either that, or they print a new cantrip better that Sleight of Hand and Serum Visions.
Wild Nacatl: If aggro decks become relevant then maybe. But with Kird Ape and Loam Lion, I do not think it will happen.
To the people saying this killed modern: I love this format dearly and many other people do too. New players will no longer be scared off by Big Bad Jund from when they started playing or by super fast combo.
To the people saying they are quitting modern: I pity you. You are really going to miss out. I will welcome you back when you are ready.
To the people saying that Wizards is banhappy: Have faith. Don't jump to conclusions, this is the first ban in a year.
To my fellow modern players: Feels good doesn't it?
1
BBE hates out any control deck that is trying to one for one you to death. Counterspells are suddenly better.
Storm makes playing an aggro deck a bad idea. If you can't race them you lose, and even a Nacatl doesn't kill by turn 3, so the only aggro deck that was viable was affinity. I know a lot of times I have looked at a decklist and thought that there was no way this deck could beat storm. So the long term effects of this will be very beneficial. It will make newer players happy about the format.
I was a member of the unban crowd. I wanted Jace, Bitterblossom, and Ancestral off the BL. Now I don't think they will ever come off, but it suddenly doesn't bother me. The format will be much more interactive now. It will be weird to see what happens this weekend.
1
BBE hates out any control deck that is trying to one for one you to death. Counterspells are suddenly better.
Storm makes playing an aggro deck a bad idea. If you can't race them you lose, and even a Nacatl doesn't kill by turn 3, so the only aggro deck that was viable was affinity. I know a lot of times I have looked at a decklist and thought that there was no way this deck could beat storm. So the long term effects of this will be very beneficial. It will make newer players happy about the format.
I was a member of the unban crowd. I wanted Jace, Bitterblossom, and Ancestral off the BL. Now I don't think they will ever come off, but it suddenly doesn't bother me. The format will be much more interactive now. It will be weird to see what happens this weekend.
1
The rest of the meta will adapt to this change and it will fall out of favor. At least I think it will. Things haven't really shaken out yet to their full extent. New decks are still emerging.