Honostly, with all the artifacts in the deck, I would cut Chandra Ablaze.
Have you thought of throwing in an X Spell just in case you hit infinite mana with Myr Galvanizer? Fireball would be great in multiplayer because then you just kill everyone, or Comet Storm if you have a bit more money.
Also, Embersmith is pretty nuts good, or at least in limited. Seeing that casual can sometimes be a lot like limited (people with collections mostly made out of drafts without a whole lot of $1,000 decks floating around), my gut reaction is to keep it.
I feel like ppl are going to flip flop about this, but I actually do like Lavaclaw reaches. Coming into play tapped is worth the risk for a potential mid to late game winner that costs nothing but a land drop. I also think Lyzolda goes into a very specific kind of deck and you don't have a critical mass of cards to support her. The best way to abuse her is to build around her, and only a few cards really synergize with her. Deck slots are precious, so you want to focus on what your main goal is, which is beatdown not sacrifice shenanigans.
I love Hellspark Elemental and Hell's Thunder, but they are very much in the "Do or die" category of aggro where you just go full out trying to win as quickly as possible. Vampire Lacerator could also be a great 1 drop as 1-mana for a 2/2 is pretty aggressive I hear. Other end of the spectrum would be to put in Vampire Nighthawk, which can beat down effectively but also play defense or get past a Wall of Denial given the situation.
I agree with the sentiment. If you're playing on MWS or some other free service, then expect people to rage out as soon as they see the first power 9; its incredibly unfair given the set of expectations one has for "casual" play. If you do own power 9 (or are proxying it) then congratulations, but it's still unfair. Problems with kitchen table magic is that "people with the money win" and no one's ever going to find it fair that you're playing with cards valued over $10,000 combined probably. Even if it is a "janky" deck.
What's the unpowered version? That would be more reasonable given the set of expectations we're probably dealing with here, and I'd give feedback for that, but encouraging yout to play a deck of moxes walks and so on I think is wrong.
Are you sure you aren't thinking of Fireblast? It sounds very similar to what your describing but involves saccing two mountians and actually costs 4RR... he's already got it in his list.
I prefer 21-23 lands in my burn builds, since opening hands are key: ending up consistently with 0 or 1 land hands is really bad actually, and the idea is that every turn you hit the spell you need. The legacy burn build actually outlined some nice statistics about it, but in general I would not go under 20, and prefer 21.
Also, fetches don't actually statistically help with deck thinning (or do so only marginally where the life loss actually isn't worth it), but fetches to synergize with a lot of cool stuff like threshold, Searing Blaze, and Plated Geopede.
Sulfuric Vortex adds a nice little bit of inevitability to the situation
ok, I'm looking at the feedback and I like it. Myr Retriever has been mixed; it's been really great at getting back expedition maps and Oblivion Stones and Dreamstone Hedron but other times has just sat there early game. Kozilek and Hedron are great later game CA, but earlier I could look into something even as innocuous as the original Mind Stone. Seeing how fast I can sometimes get mana, I think I can afford to add a few more eldrazi is not a bad call, and although I think It That Betrays will never be as cool as the legendaries I would test it out; its more affordable at least right now.
I can't believe I forgot Steel Hellkite. He's so boss he's like Airman from Megaman 2.
Deck list incoming when I'm not so busy with everything ever :3
If you feel like a terrible human being, run Guilty Conscious with Stuffy Doll. Congrats you win! I feel like this might be better as About Face and Inside Out are "blanks" until you can pull off the combo (and the combo can be stopped by an eldrazi spawn) as is Fling. Plus, if you run Conscious, you can also run Idyllic Tutor or Enlightened Tutor with some enchantment removal like Oblivion Ring in its place: run only 2 Guilty Conscious, use the tutors to find the conscious if you have stuffy doll out, else save it or get one of four Oblivion Ring. It makes for a much more stable and consistent combo. Conscious also is good just as a weak removal spell if you can't really get any combo going, better than Inside Out would ever be in most situations.
Other than that, I like it. It's got a solid defense, fun theme, and good synergy overall. Just make more room for reactive cards and a stronger win-combo and I think your set. Also if you like having more interactive games and not winning all the time and making people cry, don't actually do the guilty conscious thing
Okay, let me start with cards I disagree highly with, at the cost of me sounding cocky and arrogant (I don't mean to be, and I'll try to justify myself as clearly as I can). Control is about card advantage and taking your time to win the war of attrition, gaining incremental advantage in cards. Dark Ritual is about sacrificing card advantage for speed and winning as fast as possible. What use is using 2 cards for one spell like the Hippie that will end up either trading with removal (2 for 1-ing yourself) or best case getting in a couple times? Hymn to Tourach as a discard spell is actually better because it gaurantees a 2-for-1 every time. Consistency! Leechridden Swamp is also not high on my list, but I can see it's appeal in a very drawn out game. However, I think the trade off of potentially slowing yourself down for such a small effect is negligable. Control also wants to run a couple more lands, perhaps 2 Volrath's Stronghold or Cabal Coffers would be good?
4 direct removal spells and 2 conditional removal enchantments aren't I think strong enough for straight up control. Grave Pact lays down the law when you get it online but that can take a while, and I think you want something faster and more versatile than Unmake. If you make cuts I'd try to add Tendrils of Corruption, switch out Unmake for Doom Blade, Grasp of Darkness, Diabolic Edict, or Chainer's Edict so you got early and mid single creature removal. Sac effects are good because they can kill Shroud and Indestructible and Regenerate, which is popular on the casual green table. Also, since you're pooping out tons of tokens, definitely investigate Barter in Blood. For most ppl 2 creatures is a large part of their board, but for you its two 0/1's.
Skeletal Vampire is a great finisher for you as it's harder to kill than stronghold overseer, helps feed in more tokens, and can sort of replace Spawning Pool or a sac outlet if you don't draw into one of your combo pieces. Usually flying is enough to overwhelm an opponent with unblockability, especially with hundreds of damn dirty bats in the air. In my opinion, the best control finishers have shroud, regeneration, or indestructible since it makes it hard for the opponent to remove it and gives you a nice feeling of inevitability.
When making cuts, realize you have tons of tutors: if there's a card that's good in a single or double copy you can go down to 1 or 2 copies in the deck.
Seems good, but you might want to run a second Asceticism? Or perhaps look into creatures that are harder to interact with: you have a lot of creatures which do the same thing (namely be big and threatening), which means you can probably branch out and also look into creatures that are indestructible, have shroud, or whatever.
Blastoderm is a big go-to for this, as he's super efficient mana-wise, and I always like Thornling for being fairly inexpensive compared to the 8 and 9 mana fatties. Rampaging Baloths also can lay down a huge threat even if he's been shot with a Doom Blade.
personally, i've found Eldrazi Temple to be rather uneffective. I would run Vesuva as an alternative if your budget allows it
Vesuva is already in there ^_^. But I think there are some other colorless lands I've overlooked, like... Ancient Tomb? SCREW MY LIFE TOTAL I HAVE MANA!
You're for the most part missing removal and ways to find your combo pieces. A lot of your stuff is around 4 to 5 on the curve meaning your early game is a little bit lacking. I second the evoke sentiment because it will help out your curve and also things like removal. Spitebellows?
Instead of Elvish Visionary try Wall of Omens, its better at blocking and the same price. I am not a fan of Spawnwrithe, and while fun seems less effective and doesn't actually combo with the rest of your deck necessarily. Turntimber Ranger however, is 5 power alone across 2 creatures and you've got the means to power him out. Finally, Garruk Wildspeaker might be better than Ajani Goldmane with these particular changes in place.
Here's a deck I've been fooling around with on MWS with a friend and have been contemplating building in real life. Keep in mind I have a somewhat limited budget and that I am planning to buy cards for this, so 4xGrim Monolith is out of my scope range. Stuff like Strip Mine and Sol Ring I consider somewhat unfair; I want to have fun, not piss off my friends (and no they are not the same thing).
I've considered Urzatron but with only Expedition map able to tutor for lands, it's actually incredibly difficult to assemble. However, Vesuva can not only copy Cloudposts for ramp but also go nuts with Mishra's Factory, which means I can get some absurdly large manlands to block or attack with.
Chimeric staff is there because I find that sometimes late game i have ridiculous amounts of mana to sink and having a spell that scales the more mana I build up can be fairly flexible, since hitting 4 mana isn't too hard.
Have you thought of throwing in an X Spell just in case you hit infinite mana with Myr Galvanizer? Fireball would be great in multiplayer because then you just kill everyone, or Comet Storm if you have a bit more money.
Cut Liquimetal Coating. It really doesn't synergize with anything I feel in a significant way. Maybe with all the sacrificing going on, you can consider running Shrapnel Blast, Kuldotha Rebirth, or Furnace Celebration if you like sacrificing things. However, so far the sacrifice plan only really extends to Barrage Ogre + Perilous Myr + Myr Reservoir so I dunno if that's a direction you want to pursue.
Also, Embersmith is pretty nuts good, or at least in limited. Seeing that casual can sometimes be a lot like limited (people with collections mostly made out of drafts without a whole lot of $1,000 decks floating around), my gut reaction is to keep it.
I love Hellspark Elemental and Hell's Thunder, but they are very much in the "Do or die" category of aggro where you just go full out trying to win as quickly as possible. Vampire Lacerator could also be a great 1 drop as 1-mana for a 2/2 is pretty aggressive I hear. Other end of the spectrum would be to put in Vampire Nighthawk, which can beat down effectively but also play defense or get past a Wall of Denial given the situation.
What's the unpowered version? That would be more reasonable given the set of expectations we're probably dealing with here, and I'd give feedback for that, but encouraging yout to play a deck of moxes walks and so on I think is wrong.
Also, fetches don't actually statistically help with deck thinning (or do so only marginally where the life loss actually isn't worth it), but fetches to synergize with a lot of cool stuff like threshold, Searing Blaze, and Plated Geopede.
Sulfuric Vortex adds a nice little bit of inevitability to the situation
I'd definitely cut one set of wardens (and sigil captain) for some oblivion rings, swords to plowshares, Day of Judgement, Austere Command, or other just straight utility/support cards. Then maybe 2 or 3 finishers that were mentioned.
-R/W Defenders
-B/W Skies
-White Weenie Control
-Mono Black Creatureless Control
-U/B Dralnu Control
-Doran Rock
Interpret them as you will, but if you are curious about any of them I'll go into more detail about what each one does. :3
ok, I'm looking at the feedback and I like it. Myr Retriever has been mixed; it's been really great at getting back expedition maps and Oblivion Stones and Dreamstone Hedron but other times has just sat there early game. Kozilek and Hedron are great later game CA, but earlier I could look into something even as innocuous as the original Mind Stone. Seeing how fast I can sometimes get mana, I think I can afford to add a few more eldrazi is not a bad call, and although I think It That Betrays will never be as cool as the legendaries I would test it out; its more affordable at least right now.
I can't believe I forgot Steel Hellkite. He's so boss he's like Airman from Megaman 2.
Deck list incoming when I'm not so busy with everything ever :3
If you feel like a terrible human being, run Guilty Conscious with Stuffy Doll. Congrats you win! I feel like this might be better as About Face and Inside Out are "blanks" until you can pull off the combo (and the combo can be stopped by an eldrazi spawn) as is Fling. Plus, if you run Conscious, you can also run Idyllic Tutor or Enlightened Tutor with some enchantment removal like Oblivion Ring in its place: run only 2 Guilty Conscious, use the tutors to find the conscious if you have stuffy doll out, else save it or get one of four Oblivion Ring. It makes for a much more stable and consistent combo. Conscious also is good just as a weak removal spell if you can't really get any combo going, better than Inside Out would ever be in most situations.
Other than that, I like it. It's got a solid defense, fun theme, and good synergy overall. Just make more room for reactive cards and a stronger win-combo and I think your set. Also if you like having more interactive games and not winning all the time and making people cry, don't actually do the guilty conscious thing
I've played a lot and given a lot of advice on these kinds of decks, so I
First off: what is your budget? If you have money for Cruel Tutor and Vampiric Tutor then I'll assume you also have money for some upgrades like Bitterblossom over Breeding Pit. I'll also assume stuff like Damnation is doable.
Okay, let me start with cards I disagree highly with, at the cost of me sounding cocky and arrogant (I don't mean to be, and I'll try to justify myself as clearly as I can). Control is about card advantage and taking your time to win the war of attrition, gaining incremental advantage in cards. Dark Ritual is about sacrificing card advantage for speed and winning as fast as possible. What use is using 2 cards for one spell like the Hippie that will end up either trading with removal (2 for 1-ing yourself) or best case getting in a couple times? Hymn to Tourach as a discard spell is actually better because it gaurantees a 2-for-1 every time. Consistency! Leechridden Swamp is also not high on my list, but I can see it's appeal in a very drawn out game. However, I think the trade off of potentially slowing yourself down for such a small effect is negligable. Control also wants to run a couple more lands, perhaps 2 Volrath's Stronghold or Cabal Coffers would be good?
4 direct removal spells and 2 conditional removal enchantments aren't I think strong enough for straight up control. Grave Pact lays down the law when you get it online but that can take a while, and I think you want something faster and more versatile than Unmake. If you make cuts I'd try to add Tendrils of Corruption, switch out Unmake for Doom Blade, Grasp of Darkness, Diabolic Edict, or Chainer's Edict so you got early and mid single creature removal. Sac effects are good because they can kill Shroud and Indestructible and Regenerate, which is popular on the casual green table. Also, since you're pooping out tons of tokens, definitely investigate Barter in Blood. For most ppl 2 creatures is a large part of their board, but for you its two 0/1's.
Skeletal Vampire is a great finisher for you as it's harder to kill than stronghold overseer, helps feed in more tokens, and can sort of replace Spawning Pool or a sac outlet if you don't draw into one of your combo pieces. Usually flying is enough to overwhelm an opponent with unblockability, especially with hundreds of damn dirty bats in the air. In my opinion, the best control finishers have shroud, regeneration, or indestructible since it makes it hard for the opponent to remove it and gives you a nice feeling of inevitability.
Marsh Flitter is worth looking into for tokens also. Sign in Blood is great, and when I play multiplayer I pull Syphon Mind and Exsanguiate from the sideboard.
When making cuts, realize you have tons of tutors: if there's a card that's good in a single or double copy you can go down to 1 or 2 copies in the deck.
TL;DR version: Dark Ritual sucks, Leechridden Swamp can be better, Unmake should be Tendrils of Corruption and a lower cost removal spell, Barter in Blood seems necessary, Skeletal Vampire > Stronghold Overseer (but overseer is a fine card, vampire has more synergy), there are some other good cards to look into also.
Would Hermit Druid + no basic lands + a legendary Eldrazi work?
Blastoderm is a big go-to for this, as he's super efficient mana-wise, and I always like Thornling for being fairly inexpensive compared to the 8 and 9 mana fatties. Rampaging Baloths also can lay down a huge threat even if he's been shot with a Doom Blade.
Vesuva is already in there ^_^. But I think there are some other colorless lands I've overlooked, like... Ancient Tomb? SCREW MY LIFE TOTAL I HAVE MANA!
Instead of Elvish Visionary try Wall of Omens, its better at blocking and the same price. I am not a fan of Spawnwrithe, and while fun seems less effective and doesn't actually combo with the rest of your deck necessarily. Turntimber Ranger however, is 5 power alone across 2 creatures and you've got the means to power him out. Finally, Garruk Wildspeaker might be better than Ajani Goldmane with these particular changes in place.
4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost
4 Vesuva
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Eye of Ugin
3 Urza's Factory
4 Myr Retriever
4 Palladium Myr
2 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
2 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Artifacts (21)
2 Brittle Effigy
4 Expedition Map
4 Voltaic Key
3 Oblivion Stone
2 Chimeric Staff
2 Basalt Monolith
2 Thran Dynamo
2 Dreamstone Hedron
3 All is Dust
I've considered Urzatron but with only Expedition map able to tutor for lands, it's actually incredibly difficult to assemble. However, Vesuva can not only copy Cloudposts for ramp but also go nuts with Mishra's Factory, which means I can get some absurdly large manlands to block or attack with.
Chimeric staff is there because I find that sometimes late game i have ridiculous amounts of mana to sink and having a spell that scales the more mana I build up can be fairly flexible, since hitting 4 mana isn't too hard.
Voltaic Key + Basalt Monolith/Thran Dynamo/Dreamstone Hedron is great. Try it out! If I really wanted to break it I'd play it with Sol Ring and Grim Monolith but then it'd make the deck win too easily plus I don't have spare $20's lying around for Grim Monolith.
Thoughts?