Tron just takes practice. Using your resources aggressively is important and having enough of the resilient hate (8-10 stone rain lands, big thalia and so on).
Lantern Control is a plague. The deck should not exist. Do not beat yourself up trying to meta them. You will skew your deck and still have a hard time. I repeat, do not worry about them. Play your best (if you choose to play) and know many decks cannot beat their average hands.
I agree with Catmix about lantern. If they get their bridges you lose. Just build your board and hold a wisp until you have lethal. So you can remove the bridge. Multiples get tricky but you can. Resto to remove two. Sometimes being agressive with the land hate can cause them to fill there hand enough to be able to attack, as well.
Bomat courier actually surprised me a lot. I was essentially looking for something to replace mindstone since the colorless lands are an issue sometimes. It pulled its weight more than other cards. After playing again with Wumpus I wasnt a huge fan of it. I was specifically trying to find creatures that survived wildfire. But I like the idea of Dark Dwellers.
Hangarback is a cool consideration that I did not think of. I think I'll give it a shot but specifically the courier was there to replace Mindstone for card advantage. Earlier versions of this deck also considered Outpost Siege and Avaricious Dragon both were actually pretty good.
Thanks for the input I appreciate it. The deck could also do without Dunes of the dead. Or just 4 dunes instesd of the 8 other colorless sources. Being able to generate 2/2s after a Wildfire is pretty awesome.
So I've been toying with a list for a few weeks and its been testing really well. Looks like it could fit in this forum though its quite different from most of the lists here. It's Strictly Mono-Red Land D with a ramp into Wildfire at the top end. It looks as if Skred and The decks in this forum had a baby. I've gone 4-1 in a Friendly Leagues with it three times so far. I think it could just need some refining; but I think it has legs.
I wanted to run Mindstone, but with all the colorless sources the Talisman is really important. Could also use Destructive Revelry in the SB. Would love to know what you all think of it; I've been having a blast playing it recently and its pretty awesome to play Boom on one of your 8 Indestructible Lands or Dunes of the Dead and then play Blood Moon to fix your own mana.
I went to my weekly Modern Monday tournament and wound up going 3-1 I beat Merfolk, Valakut, and Esper Control and Lost to Counters Coco in game 3; he manaaged to play 7 collected Companies and I still almost won. One of the all stars of the night? Shefet Dunes. I only ran it as a 1 of, taking out a Canopy for a 3-1 split but might actually consider doing 2-2. It over performed in Merfolk and in Esper control as it gave me the reach to fly over them for a few extra points of damage to steal games.
I had a conversation with a friend of mine before the tournament as to what land to remove for the dunes. He asked me "When do you usually enjoy cracking a Horizon Canopy?" I told him I don't usually enjoy it; just usually use it when I have no cards in hand or I'm digging for an answer or a threat. Now I don't think I want to completely lose this utility, because being able to turn a land into a blade splicer or Flickerwisp is amazing. But the way I see it (since we are a creature deck) Shefet dunes IS a threat. So I felt comfortable removing a Canopy for a dunes and might (after Monday) be inclined to do a 2-2 split. So in short, I agree with you Rothgar13 and would definitely recommend everyone give it a shot. It's also a strictly better replacement for Caves of Koilos for anyone on Mono-White Eldrazi Taxes.
I also wanted to touch on something that was mentioned a few pages back about Serra Avenger. I just wanted to give me opinion on the card and why I feel its so powerful in the deck. Yes it's only a 3/3 beater and doesn't tax our opponents but no matter how much taxing we do we need to be able to win games and we do so by attacking. The power in Serra Avenger to me, lies in the mana cost. Part of what makes taxes so powerful is that we essentially get to use our lands as spells and we are always using our lands for things that aren't creatures which is what makes Vial so integral to our deck and Serra Avenger having such a cheap cost allows us to operate on that axis and STILL play a clock that can close out the game. It's not the best card ever printed but in practice I always see it as more than a "dumb beater" haha
So with Theau and Ben doing well with a very similar list (one without copter) I second guessed its power. I've always loved the card and I played at my LGS last night with a list similar to the 75 of Bens but I still felt like I missed copter.
I guess I just wanted to hear the opinion of some of the other people who play with it or don't play with it and why. I love the card and I missed it quite a bit last night. But Im just looking for some other perspectives.
Also thoughts on boarding against affinity without Stony? I have played the matchup many times and Never get completely swept but I think I've only won a few rounds against the deck.
I actually really like the new angel over Displacer in Mono White, half of the attraction to Mono White Taxes in modern is all the evasion the deck has. I have tried over and over to use Displacer in Mono White but I just don't like it. I usually find myself using my mana/lands for other things. At least with Angel of Condemnation if I don't have the mana to use it or decide to use the mana on something else I can still attack and block in the air with it.
Not saying its a 100% auto include but I will certainly be testing it and won't be surprised if I wind up on a 3-1 Between Restoration Angel and it.
Hey everyone haven't posted in a bit due to lack of time to play but I wanted to post the list I've been playing with the past few weeks since there was a discussion on Microsplashes a few pages back.
I jumped from the Eldrazi Taxes variant to MonoW so that I could have a more consistent manabase (I was tired of GQing my Eldrazi Temples for Colored mana. But something that MonoW lacks is hand disruption, plus I missed the silly interactions with Wasteland Strangler. In my trials with MonoW I have grown to love Smuggler's Copter and have been wanting to try it with tidehollow sculler since it allows our creatures that you usually dont want to attack with to attack.
With all that said, I'm still getting the final numbers perfected but I've been undeafeated the past three weeks at my Local store which typically has a weekly turnout of 38-45.
I think it depends on what version of the deck you play. I have played against death shadow a number of times at my LGS and have yet to lose a match. Probably 5-0 against it so far. I'm playing Mono-W and usually board out my vials and some wisps in favor of blessed alliance (the card is super flexible in the matchup, having them gain 4 to weaken the shadows is great), RiP and Condemn. They also run at most 2 basics, so paths and gqs are free after the first few.
I'm also main decking 2 Mirran Crusader due to the prevalence of DS decks currently. It's been working out pretty well.
I wanted to make a separate post than my above one because this is the deck I currently have sleeved up for the SCG Regionals this weekend. I decided on BW tokens because I expect there to be a decent amount of Affinity, Jund and other Aggro decks that we are good against. I'm just hoping to fade the Tron matchup and I've prepared my maindeck with Ghost Quarters in hopes that I could manage to pull through. Since we run Path anyway, GQ could be relevant in a lot of other matchups as well.
I'm still working on the Sideboard and I'm going to be playing a few games tonight but I feel really comfortable with this list the only modifications I'm considering to the main deck are
Hello there,
Is it meta dependant to play Selfless Spirit over Burrenton Forge-Tender or is Spirit just the better card? I mean, Forge-Tender costs 1 mana less and can function as a blocker vs Burn, Zoo and other red creature decks. Most board sweeps which are used against us are red spells such as Pyroclasm, Anger of the Gods, Firespout. The only drawbacks are that it can't fly and it doesn't protect our creatures from Damnation. Or am i missing something out on the Spirit?
Selfless Spirit beats harder than Burrenton Forge-Tender and has a more relevant form of evasion. I'm not saying it's better or worse, but the goal is still killing one's opponent.
I also find that we have a decent matchup against most red decks anyway especially if you have Auriok Champion in the Board or Timely Reinforcements.
And the most popular and devastating board sweeper that we face in MY opinion is easily Engineered Explosives So I currently like Selfless Spirit better.
I just had a troublesome time against him in games 1 and 3 because he saw 2 Angers in game 1 and all 3 in Game 3. I still almost won in Game 3 but after 3 Angers and a Stormbreath I just couldn't do it.
So I've got some "Post Push" Monday Modern results for you all. I first wanted to say that Fatal Push was as good as I thought it would be. It turned the early game of many of my matches into a walk in the park and allowed me to get into the late game. It even dealt with a few late game Goyfs and Spell Quellers.
The tournament was only 4 rounds and I wound up going 3-1; I'll list the matchups and then go into a little bit of detail about a few of the matches.
Round 1: Affinity (2-0)
Round 2: Living End (2-1)
Round 3: Bant Knightfall (2-0)
Round 4: Skred (1-2)
Affinity - Nothing Much to say here; the Affinity pilot had never played against BW Tokens before so I don't know if he knew it was already in favor of us. Both games I was able to stick a Virtue and a Sorin so I outclassed everything in his deck. I do believe that Fatal Push makes this matchup even better for us. It consistently was able to deal with everything he played (sans champion). He attacked with a Signal Pest and a Master of Etherium at one point and I cracked a fetch cast Push on his Master and blocked the signal pest with a BB Token.
Living End - I don't have a ton of Experience in this Matchup so it was a bit strange. Game 1 his deck literally did nothing. He just cycled cards and drew into lands. Game 2 I made a huge misplay tapping out on turn 2 with a Relic on Board so I couldn't exile his Graveyard; I did use relic to remove his first two cycles but he cast living end with only a Pale Recluse and a Street Wraith in the Yard; then the following turn stuck a Siege Rhino. Game 3 Was close, I mulled to 6 and he went all in on the Fulminator Plan (fortunately I kept a hand with 4 lands a spectral and a Virtue; I didn't mull again because I felt at 5 I probably couldnt get much better against him). He Played a T2 Fulminator Mage with the help from Simian Spirit Guide and then cast a living end on turn 3 to get back the Fulminator and blew up my other land. I drew into a Bitterblossom and I proceeded to draw a land and win. (Push was boarded out in this matchup)
Bant Knightfall - Not alot to say about the deck other than Fatal Push was my star card. Having the power to nuke a turn 1 Mana Dork without giving them a land felt very powerful as did killing Goyf. Really just had the upperhand against him; I never really felt behind. I drew into a decent amount of removal and discard which felt very good usually having answers for his Spell Quellers and his Knight of the Reliquary
Skred - This was an intense match. He mopped the floor with me game 1 sticking Blood Moon, Chandra, Torch of Defiance and Koth of the Hammer. Game 2 I won, I was able to get my manabase all set up for the bloodmoon; I believe he kept this hand hoping the Moon would be enough, It wasn't. Bitterblossom and Elspeth won me that game. Game 3 went to turns and he wound up killing me with a Stormbreath Dragon. He saw all 3 of his Anger of the Gods and I saw none of my SB tech (Selfless Spirit, Runed Halo, Auriok Champion)
Overall even though I lost to Skred in the last round I felt the deck performed the way it should. Skred is one of our most difficult matchups to Start with and it did get down to the wire. Though I can safely say that I think I want to find room for a second Runed Halo in the board since its so good in many fringe applications (Stormbreath Dragon) Fatal Push was 110% as good as I was hoping it would be. Definitely happy to be back on Tokens. I might consider taking out the Raise the Alarms for sometihng else but I'm not sure; they did help provide an early clock in some matches so maybe its right to play a few.
Purge also hits Tasigur, the golden fang, Dark Confidant, Bloodghasts and Amalgams and some other fringe stuff like Xenagos. I like it because it can take care of the pesky threats that push and path can't hit but there is some beneficial overlap as well.
I don't see the point of running Smuggler's Copter if you can just run Selfless Spirit. Here's the comparison:
(a) Both turn on spot removal, although Copter turns on sideboard cards like nature's claim and main deck cards like Kolaghan's Command.
(b) Both are good against board wipes, in the sense that Spirit protects your entire board while Smuggler is protected from sorcery speed wipes. However, Spirit has the edge in terms of boardwipes as you need to crew a token after a boardwipe with copter (unless you have a Bitterblossom).
(c) Selfless spirit is good on its own while Smuggler's Copter is dependent on other tokens. You're still attacking for "3" with Spirit because you're not crewing a token to attack with it. Copter only deals 1 additional damage when played on turn 2 and attacking on turn 3 vs Spirit. Otherwise they both deal 3 damage individually.
(d) Copter has looting applications which is very good in the late game. Spirit has combat applications since block + sac means you can trade favorably a huge number of creatures. Most of my opponents completely forget about Spirit's effect and make terrible combat choices.
(e) Multiple copies of Spirit is better than multiple copies of Copter for reasons listed above both offensively and defensively.
If I weigh these points, for me Selfless Spirit has a greater edge in utility. In fact, I've used 1 copy in my main for quite a while and it has been fantastic.
It's really just for the filtering. I have had great sucess with selfless spirit and haven't tested Copter, so I want to give it a fair shake.
I agree with Catmix about lantern. If they get their bridges you lose. Just build your board and hold a wisp until you have lethal. So you can remove the bridge. Multiples get tricky but you can. Resto to remove two. Sometimes being agressive with the land hate can cause them to fill there hand enough to be able to attack, as well.
Hangarback is a cool consideration that I did not think of. I think I'll give it a shot but specifically the courier was there to replace Mindstone for card advantage. Earlier versions of this deck also considered Outpost Siege and Avaricious Dragon both were actually pretty good.
Thanks for the input I appreciate it. The deck could also do without Dunes of the dead. Or just 4 dunes instesd of the 8 other colorless sources. Being able to generate 2/2s after a Wildfire is pretty awesome.
I wanted to run Mindstone, but with all the colorless sources the Talisman is really important. Could also use Destructive Revelry in the SB. Would love to know what you all think of it; I've been having a blast playing it recently and its pretty awesome to play Boom on one of your 8 Indestructible Lands or Dunes of the Dead and then play Blood Moon to fix your own mana.
3 Bomat Courier
2 Shivan Wumpus
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
Instant/Sorcery
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Boom//Bust
2 Pyroclasm
3 Molten Rain
4 Stone Rain
3 Wildfire
3 Talisman of Impulse
Enchantment
3 Blood Moon
Planeswalker
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Koth of the Hammer
Land
4 Cascading Cataracts
4 Darksteel Citadel
2 Dunes of the Dead
13 Mountain
2 Stormbreath Dragon
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Vandalblast
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Sudden Shock
3 Anger of the Gods
I went to my weekly Modern Monday tournament and wound up going 3-1 I beat Merfolk, Valakut, and Esper Control and Lost to Counters Coco in game 3; he manaaged to play 7 collected Companies and I still almost won. One of the all stars of the night? Shefet Dunes. I only ran it as a 1 of, taking out a Canopy for a 3-1 split but might actually consider doing 2-2. It over performed in Merfolk and in Esper control as it gave me the reach to fly over them for a few extra points of damage to steal games.
I had a conversation with a friend of mine before the tournament as to what land to remove for the dunes. He asked me "When do you usually enjoy cracking a Horizon Canopy?" I told him I don't usually enjoy it; just usually use it when I have no cards in hand or I'm digging for an answer or a threat. Now I don't think I want to completely lose this utility, because being able to turn a land into a blade splicer or Flickerwisp is amazing. But the way I see it (since we are a creature deck) Shefet dunes IS a threat. So I felt comfortable removing a Canopy for a dunes and might (after Monday) be inclined to do a 2-2 split. So in short, I agree with you Rothgar13 and would definitely recommend everyone give it a shot. It's also a strictly better replacement for Caves of Koilos for anyone on Mono-White Eldrazi Taxes.
I also wanted to touch on something that was mentioned a few pages back about Serra Avenger. I just wanted to give me opinion on the card and why I feel its so powerful in the deck. Yes it's only a 3/3 beater and doesn't tax our opponents but no matter how much taxing we do we need to be able to win games and we do so by attacking. The power in Serra Avenger to me, lies in the mana cost. Part of what makes taxes so powerful is that we essentially get to use our lands as spells and we are always using our lands for things that aren't creatures which is what makes Vial so integral to our deck and Serra Avenger having such a cheap cost allows us to operate on that axis and STILL play a clock that can close out the game. It's not the best card ever printed but in practice I always see it as more than a "dumb beater" haha
I guess I just wanted to hear the opinion of some of the other people who play with it or don't play with it and why. I love the card and I missed it quite a bit last night. But Im just looking for some other perspectives.
Also thoughts on boarding against affinity without Stony? I have played the matchup many times and Never get completely swept but I think I've only won a few rounds against the deck.
Not saying its a 100% auto include but I will certainly be testing it and won't be surprised if I wind up on a 3-1 Between Restoration Angel and it.
I jumped from the Eldrazi Taxes variant to MonoW so that I could have a more consistent manabase (I was tired of GQing my Eldrazi Temples for Colored mana. But something that MonoW lacks is hand disruption, plus I missed the silly interactions with Wasteland Strangler. In my trials with MonoW I have grown to love Smuggler's Copter and have been wanting to try it with tidehollow sculler since it allows our creatures that you usually dont want to attack with to attack.
With all that said, I'm still getting the final numbers perfected but I've been undeafeated the past three weeks at my Local store which typically has a weekly turnout of 38-45.
4 Thalia, guardian of Thraben
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Thraben Inspector
3 Blade Splicer
3 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Dark Confidant
2 Wasteland Strangler
2 Restoration Angel
1 Mirran Crusader
Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
2 Smuggler's Copter
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
2 Caves of Koilos
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Mutavault
1 Vault of the Archangel
3 Plains
1 Swamp
3 Rest in Peace
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Stony Silence
2 Fatal Push
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Sin Collector
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Mirran Crusader
I've been itching to try UW Taxes but this is probably what I will sit on until I corral the stuff for that deck.
Even if you do get duplicates of lil thalia you can filter them with Copter. +1 to 4x little thalias
I'm also main decking 2 Mirran Crusader due to the prevalence of DS decks currently. It's been working out pretty well.
4 Marsh Flats
3 Windswept Heath
3 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
2 Shambling Vent
1 Fetid Heath
3 Ghost Quarter
3 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Vault of the Archangel
Sorcery - 16
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 Lingering Souls
2 Spectral Procession
2 Timely Reinforcements
2 Night's Whisper
3 Fatal Push
4 Path to Exile
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Murderous Cut
Enchantment - 8
4 Intangible Virtue
4 Bitterblossom
Planeswalker - 4
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Auriok Champion
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Sundering Growth
1 Duress
1 Hour of Reckoning
1 Runed Halo
2 Selfless Spirit
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
I'm still working on the Sideboard and I'm going to be playing a few games tonight but I feel really comfortable with this list the only modifications I'm considering to the main deck are
-2 Night's Whisper
-2 Timely Reinforcements
+2 Liliana of the Veil
+2 Raise the Alarm
I can't decide which I like more, it's current state or with those changes. If you guys have any input I'd greatly appreciate it!
I also find that we have a decent matchup against most red decks anyway especially if you have Auriok Champion in the Board or Timely Reinforcements.
And the most popular and devastating board sweeper that we face in MY opinion is easily Engineered Explosives So I currently like Selfless Spirit better.
Here was the list I was playing last night
4 Windswept Heath
4 Marsh Flats
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Shambling Vent
2 Godless Shrine
1 Fetid Heath
1 Caves of Koilos
1 Vault of the Archangel
3 Plains
1 Swamp
Discard - 7
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
1 Collective Brutality
4 Fatal Push
4 Path to Exile
1 Zealous Persecution
Anthems - 4
4 Intangible Virtue
Token Generators - 13
4 Lingering Souls
4 Bitterblossom
3 Spectral Procession
2 Raise the Alarm
Planeswalkers - 4
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Auriok Champion
2 Selfless Spirit
2 Rest in Peace
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Hero of Bladehold
2 Stony Silence
1 Sundering Growth
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Hour of Reckoning
1 Runed Halo
1 Pithing Needle
The tournament was only 4 rounds and I wound up going 3-1; I'll list the matchups and then go into a little bit of detail about a few of the matches.
Round 1: Affinity (2-0)
Round 2: Living End (2-1)
Round 3: Bant Knightfall (2-0)
Round 4: Skred (1-2)
Affinity - Nothing Much to say here; the Affinity pilot had never played against BW Tokens before so I don't know if he knew it was already in favor of us. Both games I was able to stick a Virtue and a Sorin so I outclassed everything in his deck. I do believe that Fatal Push makes this matchup even better for us. It consistently was able to deal with everything he played (sans champion). He attacked with a Signal Pest and a Master of Etherium at one point and I cracked a fetch cast Push on his Master and blocked the signal pest with a BB Token.
Living End - I don't have a ton of Experience in this Matchup so it was a bit strange. Game 1 his deck literally did nothing. He just cycled cards and drew into lands. Game 2 I made a huge misplay tapping out on turn 2 with a Relic on Board so I couldn't exile his Graveyard; I did use relic to remove his first two cycles but he cast living end with only a Pale Recluse and a Street Wraith in the Yard; then the following turn stuck a Siege Rhino. Game 3 Was close, I mulled to 6 and he went all in on the Fulminator Plan (fortunately I kept a hand with 4 lands a spectral and a Virtue; I didn't mull again because I felt at 5 I probably couldnt get much better against him). He Played a T2 Fulminator Mage with the help from Simian Spirit Guide and then cast a living end on turn 3 to get back the Fulminator and blew up my other land. I drew into a Bitterblossom and I proceeded to draw a land and win. (Push was boarded out in this matchup)
Bant Knightfall - Not alot to say about the deck other than Fatal Push was my star card. Having the power to nuke a turn 1 Mana Dork without giving them a land felt very powerful as did killing Goyf. Really just had the upperhand against him; I never really felt behind. I drew into a decent amount of removal and discard which felt very good usually having answers for his Spell Quellers and his Knight of the Reliquary
Skred - This was an intense match. He mopped the floor with me game 1 sticking Blood Moon, Chandra, Torch of Defiance and Koth of the Hammer. Game 2 I won, I was able to get my manabase all set up for the bloodmoon; I believe he kept this hand hoping the Moon would be enough, It wasn't. Bitterblossom and Elspeth won me that game. Game 3 went to turns and he wound up killing me with a Stormbreath Dragon. He saw all 3 of his Anger of the Gods and I saw none of my SB tech (Selfless Spirit, Runed Halo, Auriok Champion)
Overall even though I lost to Skred in the last round I felt the deck performed the way it should. Skred is one of our most difficult matchups to Start with and it did get down to the wire. Though I can safely say that I think I want to find room for a second Runed Halo in the board since its so good in many fringe applications (Stormbreath Dragon) Fatal Push was 110% as good as I was hoping it would be. Definitely happy to be back on Tokens. I might consider taking out the Raise the Alarms for sometihng else but I'm not sure; they did help provide an early clock in some matches so maybe its right to play a few.
It's really just for the filtering. I have had great sucess with selfless spirit and haven't tested Copter, so I want to give it a fair shake.